Is breaking a red light illegal

axer

zuutroy wrote:

Here's a good one (answer direct from a Garda so donr blame me if you later unearth it as untrue)......What is the only circumstance in which a red light can be broken legally by anyone in this country?

When it is safer to pass through a red light than not to or when directed to do so by a garda or when the red light is not even a traffic light or if you own the red light thus it is legal for you to smash it up.

zuutroy

axer wrote:

When it is safer to pass through a red light than not to or when directed to do so by a garda

Not according to the statute

axer wrote:

or when the red light is not even a traffic light or if you own the red light thus it is legal for you to smash it up

Now you're just being silly!

fade2black

What i see a lot of is when the light is green the car will proceed to the centre of the road, say to turn right, but won't be able to do so because there is a stream of traffic coming in the opposite direction. So, the car waits till the line of traffic has stopped and then takes his right turn. The problem is, in that time the lights have turned red again but he will turn right anyway, usually into a crowd of pedestrians who have just found their green man.

Also, lately I've discovered that while cycling a bicyle I receive magic powers, notably those of invisibility. But that's for another day and another forum.

axer

zuutroy wrote:

Not according to the statute

But do we not have to obey gardai in an instance when they tell us to proceed through a red light according to statute?

rubadub

I went through a red light during my driving test and passed no problems, remarked on me having good common sense.

I was out in the middle of a junction preparing to turn right, waiting for the filter light to come on. The filter never came on so I was stuck out in the junction with a 2 red lights in front of me for ahead, and turning right. I turned right anyway, breaking the red. (there was no yellow box)

Now if anybody says "ah well thats a special case", well then no, it is apparently not illegal (in some cases).

BTW if you are waiting for a right filter light and the straight on light is green, are you allowed to turn right if there is no oncoming traffic on the other side. I have seen many people doing this all the time. They too are breaking red lights, with no apparent need (i.e. are not out in a junction like I was)

fade2black

rubadub wrote:

I went through a red light during my driving test and passed no problems, remarked on me having good common sense.

I was out in the middle of a junction preparing to turn right, waiting for the filter light to come on. The filter never came on so I was stuck out in the junction with a 2 red lights in front of me for ahead, and turning right. I turned right anyway, breaking the red.

Now if anybody says "ah well thats a special case", well then no, it is apparently not illegal (in some cases).

BTW if you are waiting for a right filter light and the straight on light is green, are you allowed to turn right if there is no oncoming traffic on the other side. I have seen many people doing this all the time. They too are breaking red lights, with no apparent need (i.e. are not out in a junction like I was)

And what would happen if, given my example above, you clipped a pedestrian as you turned?

drdre

Sangre wrote:

Breaking a red light is so, so illegal. It will get you done for reckless or dangerous driving. There is not a chance a judge said they were for guidance only.

No way can you be done for dangerous driving for breaking a red light.where did you get that info from. i got done for dangerous driving and it was a serious offence(handbrake turn).
i really donot believe this comment

fade2black

drdre wrote:

No way can you be done for dangerous driving for breaking a red light.where did you get that info from. i got done for dangerous driving and it was a serious offence(handbrake turn).
i really donot believe this comment

Then you really shouldn't be allowed to drive a car.

prospect

rubadub wrote:

BTW if you are waiting for a right filter light and the straight on light is green, are you allowed to turn right if there is no oncoming traffic on the other side. I have seen many people doing this all the time. They too are breaking red lights, with no apparent need (i.e. are not out in a junction like I was)

I am not sure you are correct here.

If you are turning right, and the straight light is green, but there is no traffic coming in your direction you:

CAN turn right if there is no filter light at all, or if there is an extinguished filter light.

CAN NOT turn right if the filter light is red.

BrianD3

rubadub wrote:

I went through a red light during my driving test and passed no problems, remarked on me having good common sense.

I was out in the middle of a junction preparing to turn right, waiting for the filter light to come on. The filter never came on so I was stuck out in the junction with a 2 red lights in front of me for ahead, and turning right. I turned right anyway, breaking the red. (there was no yellow box)

Now if anybody says "ah well thats a special case", well then no, it is apparently not illegal (in some cases).

Yes, this was the correct thing to do. AFAIK when the filter light didn't come on you were "in control of the junction" and were allowed proceed through the red.

zuutroy

axer wrote:

But do we not have to obey gardai in an instance when they tell us to proceed through a red light according to statute?

OK, lets say, when is it legal to disobey a red light or garda signal, whichever may be in effect.

Idleater

rubadub wrote:

I went through a red light during my driving test and passed no problems, remarked on me having good common sense.

I was out in the middle of a junction preparing to turn right, waiting for the filter light to come on. The filter never came on so I was stuck out in the junction with a 2 red lights in front of me for ahead, and turning right. I turned right anyway, breaking the red. (there was no yellow box)

Now if anybody says "ah well thats a special case", well then no, it is apparently not illegal (in some cases).

If there was a filter light for you turning right, you should not have been in the middle of the junction "waiting" to turn right. If there is a filter, and it is red, you must wait at the stop line. If there is a filter and it is but the exit of the junction is blocked, you must wait at the stop line.

If there is no filter and there is a "box" outlined for a car to turn right, one vehicle may enter this box, with the remainder of the queue waiting at the stop line.

If there is no filter and no box, you must wait at the stop line for a suitable break in traffic that you may cross the junction safely.

This was pointed out to me by my instructor because there is a junction at the Churchtown on the test route where people get "caught" in the middle of the junction like that.

As far as your "special case" I don't know, maybe the tester thought that you got yourself out of that nice little hole that you dug for yourself pretty well, but as for the rule, you broke it and can be thankful that you passed.


L.

Alun

nereid wrote:

If there is no filter and no box, you must wait at the stop line for a suitable break in traffic that you may cross the junction safely.

?? That isn't what I was taught by my instuctor (in the UK, many years ago). I was taught to move out into the junction ready to turn right, regardless of whether there is a yellow box or not. If you applied that technique, you'd be stuck at most traffic lights for hours waiting for a gap big enough especially at larger junctions.

BrianD3

Alun is correct. You are supposed to move forward at junctions when waiting for a right turn arrow as long as
-you're the first car in line
-you're facing an extinguished green arrow as opposed to a red signal, in the latter case you stop at the line
-you are blocked only by oncoming traffic

Makes no difference if there is a yellow box or any other kind of box or not. I was always taught to treat all junctiosn as if they have a yellow box, even though there may not be one marked on the road.

Failing to move forward when you should in a driving test will result in you being marked or failed for lack of progress.

If you have moved forward and for whatever reason you don't get a green arrow as I posted already you are in control of the junction and can break the red light. Just be really careful to watch for pedestrians as they will probably have a green man and will walk out.

I remember a few years ago, the junction between Collins Avenue and Ballymun Rd in dublin had a missing or intermittent right turn filter light. It was a bit strange for a large, busy junction. If traffic was anyway heavy the car that moved forward would not get to turn right before the lights went red. There were no signs or road markings forbidding right turns at the junction either. The layout and lights were changed a few years back, now there is a reliable arrow at that location.

Jumpy

prospect wrote:

While it is being discussed:

I can safely say, that in 11 years of driving, I have NEVER seen anyone come to a complete stop on an amber light.

That is because they are slowing down. There is no time to come to a complete stop on an amber unless you hit the brakes hard. It is red by the time the car comes to a stop as a general rule.

As for the OP question, I cannot beleive you are actually discussing this. Breaking a red is illegal and a finable offence. There will be a points penalty for it in the new penalty list due next month.
Red light cameras will be in place soon, I beleive they already have a few in Dublin according to the radio the other day.

edit: arg...my spelling has gone to crap...must...remember "I before E except after C"

Jumpy

drdre wrote:

No way can you be done for dangerous driving for breaking a red light.where did you get that info from. i got done for dangerous driving and it was a serious offence(handbrake turn).
i really donot believe this comment

You can, and by the sound of it...will.

Jumpy

rubadub wrote:

I went through a red light during my driving test and passed no problems, remarked on me having good common sense.

I was out in the middle of a junction preparing to turn right, waiting for the filter light to come on. The filter never came on so I was stuck out in the junction with a 2 red lights in front of me for ahead, and turning right. I turned right anyway, breaking the red. (there was no yellow box)

Now if anybody says "ah well thats a special case", well then no, it is apparently not illegal (in some cases).

BTW if you are waiting for a right filter light and the straight on light is green, are you allowed to turn right if there is no oncoming traffic on the other side. I have seen many people doing this all the time. They too are breaking red lights, with no apparent need (i.e. are not out in a junction like I was)

None of what you described is breaking a red. If your rear tires cross the line after the light has switched from amber to red then that is construed as a break. At least that is the way in which australian red light cameras operate. You had already passed that line on the green which then went red while you were waiting, the traffic on the other side is required to let you turn before they move off.

Jumpy

prospect wrote:

I am not sure you are correct here.

If you are turning right, and the straight light is green, but there is no traffic coming in your direction you:

CAN turn right if there is no filter light at all, or if there is an extinguished filter light.

CAN NOT turn right if the filter light is red.

Just to clarify, you have both said the same thing.
He was not talking about a red filter light, he was referring to an intersection with a single green filter light that is either on or off (no amber or red arrows).

So you are both right.

Jumpy

zuutroy wrote:

OK, lets say, when is it legal to disobey a red light or garda signal, whichever may be in effect.

I would assume (may not be right here) that it comes into effect if there is a traffic Gardai in place because of faulty lights or an accident has occurred blocking a lane.

At a guess....when you are obstructing a lit ambulance?....not sure here...

seamus

When you see a green arrow, it means that traffic may proceed in that direction only. Thus, if you are waiting to turn right, and only a green arrow is lit for traffic going straight ahead, you *may not* proceed into the junction to wait to turn right. If the light is a full (i.e. round) green, then you may proceed, regardless of whether a right-turn filter light exists.

Is that what everyone has already said?

As BrianD points out, if you are in the center of a junction waiting to turn, and all of the lights have gone red, you have already proceeded through your lights (thus, you aren't breaking any lights), and are in control of the junction. All other roads users must yield to you until you have left the junction - this includes pedestrians waiting to cross the road you are turning into, ped. crossing or otherwise.

Jumpy

seamus wrote:

When you see a green arrow, it means that traffic may proceed in that direction only. Thus, if you are waiting to turn right, and only a green arrow is lit for traffic going straight ahead, you *may not* proceed into the junction to wait to turn right. If the light is a full (i.e. round) green, then you may proceed, regardless of whether a right-turn filter light exists.

Is that what everyone has already said?

As BrianD points out, if you are in the center of a junction waiting to turn, and all of the lights have gone red, you have already proceeded through your lights (thus, you aren't breaking any lights), and are in control of the junction. All other roads users must yield to you until you have left the junction - this includes pedestrians waiting to cross the road you are turning into, ped. crossing or otherwise.

It is, but yours makes the most sense.

kc66

I was told by two guards that the same laws do not apply to temporary lights as apply to fixed lights. So it is not illegal to go through a red temporary light if it is safe to do so. Because of this I have often gone through a red temp light if it was close to the far lights and there were no cars coming. I hope they were right but I know them well so I believe them.

TempestSabre

prospect wrote:

I am not sure you are correct here.

If you are turning right, and the straight light is green, but there is no traffic coming in your direction you:

CAN turn right if there is no filter light at all, or if there is an extinguished filter light.

CAN NOT turn right if the filter light is red.

I was on about this before. Theres a lot of filter lights that don't have a red light above them.

rubadub

fade2black wrote:

And what would happen if, given my example above, you clipped a pedestrian as you turned?

Well I was looking for pedestrians, like I always do turning even if it is green. At most stops I would expect the filter to always come on. If some traffic planner (or whatever they are called) allowed no filter to be on and had a green light on for pedestrians knowing it is common for cars to be stuck like that, then it is very poor planning.
Perhaps the filter only comes on if pedestrians were crossing in front of my original direction. I know several lights like this, I see people getting out of their cars in the morning and pressing pedestrian buttons so they can get their filter light on. These are lights with simply a left or right filter

rubadub

nereid wrote:

This was pointed out to me by my instructor

I had 3 instructors, and each gave conflicting rules to me.
Is there any place you can get every single rule. I was asked stuff in the oral exam that was not in the rules of the road, I happened to know it, but consider it unfair.

Idleater

BrianD3 wrote:

Alun is correct. You are supposed to move forward at junctions when waiting for a right turn arrow as long as
-you're the first car in line
.....

I stand corrected, this is the part that I forgot about in my post.

L.

dts

Tempory light are there to advise and although it is not illegal to go through a red light you could still be done for dangerous driving.
Come on people use a bit of common sense or we will never get home:D