Term of Lease in apartment

cantona92

When ui first moved into my apt the estate agent advised me that a new law came in whereby I am entitled to leave after 6months if i want and still get my deposit back. She kinda regretted saying itto me though just in case i didn leave and shed have to do all the work of finding someone else again.

Just wondering has anyone heard of this 'law' and is it poss to leave after six monthss. My contract i signed does say one year but why would she stipulate that i could leave after 6months (kinda defeats the purpose of the one year lease ??)

Victor

I've not heard anything like that. I suspect what she was trying to say was she would try to keep your deposit if you left before 6 months.

There are recent rules whereby the longer you stay the longer the notice period on either side before you move out.

Do you want to move out?

gibo_ie

cantona92 wrote:

When ui first moved into my apt the estate agent advised me that a new law came in whereby I am entitled to leave after 6months if i want and still get my deposit back. She kinda regretted saying itto me though just in case i didn leave and shed have to do all the work of finding someone else again.

Just wondering has anyone heard of this 'law' and is it poss to leave after six monthss. My contract i signed does say one year but why would she stipulate that i could leave after 6months (kinda defeats the purpose of the one year lease ??)

Yes this is correct. It is one of the Major points in the PRTB (Public Residency Tenancy Board) www.ptrb.ie and i am suprised Victor does not know of this as a mod!! Anyway it is called Security of Tenure and the way it works is simple, most people actually look at it better from the other way, if you stay 6 months or more without causing problems or breaking your contract it is much much harder to be kicked out or for landlord to break your lease.
This is from a landlord with 5 properties so i am fairly sure of this.

But all the same, below six months you have the right to leave without forefit of deposit so long as you have kept up to date with payments and give acceptable notice (depending on how long you have been there, ranges from 21 days to 42 days AFIK)

Victor

I understand your point gibo, but the OP is tied into a one year lease anyway.

gibo_ie

Victor wrote:

I understand your point gibo, but the OP is tied into a one year lease anyway.

Not correct any more unfortunately, even if you have a one year lease, it can be broken by either side much easier before it hits the six month mark!!
bummer really!

cantona92

Thats great - really want to leave after 6months to a cheaper place. you have made my day Gibo!!! Was terrified of losing my deposit!!

cantona92

cant seem to get into that prtb.ie website ?? is there any other tenants website that will stipulate this do u know ??

gibo_ie

Works ok for me but try www.threshold.ie also. I also forgot to say that you should be registered by the landlord with the PRTB by law!! If not just mention this to him/her and i am sure leaving will not be a problem and you will get your deposit back as it is a €3k fine otherwise for not regietering (landlord must do this)

cantona92

Yeah they are registered - i got a letter in the post a few weeks ago stating that they were. Thanks for that

Andrew Duffy

gibo_ie wrote:

Not correct any more unfortunately, even if you have a one year lease, it can be broken by either side much easier before it hits the six month mark!!

A lease is a lease. The residential tenancies act 2004 introduced new protections for recurring tenancies, but recognises the mechanism of a lease to supplement (but not remove) the provisions of the act.

Basically, if you break a lease agreement, the landlord is fully capable of pursuing you for your unpaid rent and legal costs.

Orual

There seems to be a lot of confusion around termination of a lease by a tenant.

I found this information from Threshold:


4. Can the landlord terminate a lease early?
The landlord can only terminate a lease before its end date if the contract contains a 'break clause' which allows both parties to end the lease prematurely. If there is no break clause, a lease can only be ended if the tenant is in breach of an obligation.


6. Can the tenant leave before the end of the lease?
If a tenant wants to leave before the end of the lease (and there is no break clause), the tenant needs to:
Find someone else to replace the existing tenant in the lease;
Write to the landlord, requesting permission to assign the lease to this new person.


11. Getting your deposit back
If a lease has run its natural course, you are entitled to get your deposit back. The landlord can only retain the deposit if there are rent arrears or damage to the property beyond normal wear and tear.

For more information, call your nearest Threshold advice centre. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=239


A. If there is a break clause in your contract you can terminate the lease early.

B. If your contract contains no break clause you need to send a letter to the landlord requesting permission to assign the lease to a new person.


C. If there is no break clause on the lease but the property is deemed a serious health risk to the tenant they can leave with 7 days notice. Check with threshold for further details on this one. I think the risk needs to be really really serious.

gibo_ie

Orual wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of confusion around termination of a lease by a tenant.

I found this information from Threshold:


4. Can the landlord terminate a lease early?
The landlord can only terminate a lease before its end date if the contract contains a 'break clause' which allows both parties to end the lease prematurely. If there is no break clause, a lease can only be ended if the tenant is in breach of an obligation.


6. Can the tenant leave before the end of the lease?
If a tenant wants to leave before the end of the lease (and there is no break clause), the tenant needs to:
Find someone else to replace the existing tenant in the lease;
Write to the landlord, requesting permission to assign the lease to this new person.


11. Getting your deposit back
If a lease has run its natural course, you are entitled to get your deposit back. The landlord can only retain the deposit if there are rent arrears or damage to the property beyond normal wear and tear.

For more information, call your nearest Threshold advice centre. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=239


A. If there is a break clause in your contract you can terminate the lease early.

B. If your contract contains no break clause you need to send a letter to the landlord requesting permission to assign the lease to a new person.


C. If there is no break clause on the lease but the property is deemed a serious health risk to the tenant they can leave with 7 days notice. Check with threshold for further details on this one. I think the risk needs to be really really serious.

This is not quite true. The PRTB are law on this now, Threshold is only advisory. From www.prtb.ie

PRTB wrote:

Landlords are entitled to:
Terminate a tenancy that has lasted less than 6 months
without providing a reason and terminate a tenancy
that has lasted more than 6 months for one of the
grounds listed in section 34 of the Act (see PRTB leaflet)

AND

Part 4 Tenancies
A landlord may terminate a Part 4 tenancy, in accordance with the provisions of the Act, where any of the circumstances set out in Section 34 of the Act arise. For instance a landlord, may terminate a tenancy, in circumstances where he or she wants to live in the dwelling concerned.

A tenant can terminate a Part 4 tenancy at any time and without reason, provided he or she gives the requisite notice and complies with the provisions for termination of a tenancy under the Act, which includes the service of a valid notice of termination.

homah_7ft

gibo_ie wrote: »

This is not quite true. The PRTB are law on this now, Threshold is only advisory. From www.prtb.ie

I would disagree with that. The law derives from the Residential Tenancies Act and not the PRTB.

antoinolachtnai

The law is very vague. the Act's provisions are in addition to the lease, it's true, but the lease can generally speaking only give the tenant extra rights - it can't take rights away from the tenant. For example, it cannot take the tenant's right to terminate away (although there is provision to change the notice period from the statutory notice period, providing the change is reflexive).

From my reading, it is possible to structure what is effectively a 12 month lease, but it needs particular phraseology (which I've never seen).

I would not take anything on the PRTB site as gospel.

Afuera

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

the lease can generally speaking only give the tenant extra rights - it can't take rights away from the tenant. For example, it cannot take the tenant's right to terminate away

When it comes to terminating a lease, the tenant is subject to the terms of the letting agreement and may only terminate in accordance with that. This means, if they've signed a fixed term lease, which does not contain a break clause, they can't just hand their notice to the landlord. They can however find another tenant, request the landlord to assign the lease to them, and then serve notice (regardless of whether the landlord permited the lease to be assigned to the other person or not). As far as I know this is the only legitimate way for a tenant to break a fixed term lease in Ireland (not including the scenario where the property presents a health risk to the tenant).

antoinolachtnai

It's arguable, but it may be possible to do so simply by giving statutory notice. The letter of the Act seems to indicate this.

Afuera and I disagree over which takes priority, the lease or the Act. I say the Act. He says the lease. I have to say that I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Orual

In section 4 of the Terminating a tenancy leftlet on the PRTB website it says:

"Only 7 days notice need be given by a landlord to a tennant where the termination notice results from serious anti-social behavior by the tennant of behaviour that is threatening to the fabric of the dwelling or the property"

Only 7 days notice need be given by the tenant to the landlord where the reason for the termination is that the behaviour of the landlord poses an imminent danger of serious injury or death or danger to the fabric of the dwelling or the proerty containing the dwelling"

From what I have read in the citizens information website there are certain minimum standards that a rented property must comply with. I doubt a fixed term agreement would take away a tenants right to leave a property was not up to the minimum standard. A tenant should not lose a deposit because they had to leave a rented property that was not livable or if it was making them sick.

Afuera

Orual wrote: »

From what I have read in the citizens information website there are certain minimum standards that a rented property must comply with. I doubt a fixed term agreement would take away a tenants right to leave a property was not up to the minimum standard. A tenant should not lose a deposit because they had to leave a rented property that was not livable or if it was making them sick.

I agree that the health and safety of the tenant would be a priority here. We are getting into human rights territory with this kind of scenario and I doubt any contract would be able to overrule it.

They would have to get in touch with the local council before moving out though so that it can be verified that the property is indeed uninhabitable. Also, it is probably expected that the landlord is given a chance to rectify the problems before the lease is declared null and void.

Orual

Afuera wrote: »

I agree that the health and safety of the tenant would be a priority here. We are getting into human rights territory with this kind of scenario and I doubt any contract would be able to overrule it.

They would have to get in touch with the local council before moving out though so that it can be verified that the property is indeed uninhabitable. Also, it is probably expected that the landlord is given a chance to rectify the problems before the lease is declared null and void.

What would happen if the tenant did contact the council but the environmental officer said that the property was not registered?

Also, (and this is a personal opinion so please forgive me) 5 months should be more than enough time for a landlord to fix a problem that has been reported to him.

What would happen if the tenant had documentory proof that the place suffered from damp? eg. mould and rising damp

Afuera

Orual wrote: »

What would happen if the tenant did contact the council but the environmental officer said that the property was not registered?

Then the PRTB would need to be notified as well.

Orual wrote: »

Also, (and this is a personal opinion so please forgive me) 5 months should be more than enough time for a landlord to fix a problem that has been reported to him.

It depends on the seriousness of the problem and whether it poses a health risk or not.

Orual wrote: »

What would happen if the tenant had documentory proof that the place suffered from damp? eg. mould and rising damp

The council would need to verify whether it is serious enough to cause health problems and it would be up to them to chase after the landlord. If they came around and find that it is serious, they should be able to provide you with a statement to that effect.

This could be sent to the landlord, along with your 7 day notice to terminate the lease, if that is what you wanted to do.

MCMT

Afuera wrote: »

When it comes to terminating a lease, the tenant is subject to the terms of the letting agreement and may only terminate in accordance with that. This means, if they've signed a fixed term lease, which does not contain a break clause, they can't just hand their notice to the landlord. They can however find another tenant, request the landlord to assign the lease to them, and then serve notice (regardless of whether the landlord permited the lease to be assigned to the other person or not). As far as I know this is the only legitimate way for a tenant to break a fixed term lease in Ireland (not including the scenario where the property presents a health risk to the tenant).

I know this thread is very old, but perhaps you could just clarify something for me.

You say they can however find another tenant, request the landlord to assign the lease to them, and then serve notice (regardless of whether the landlord permited the lease to be assigned to the other person or not).

So (in order) should the tenant:

1. Request in writing to have the lease assigned,

2. Submit the proposed "replacement" tenants,

3. Serve notice of termination?

Does the landlord not have to vet the said tenants and agree to their replacement before the notice of termination can be submitted?

And should the tenant proposing the assignment seek the landlord's permission in writing or is simply serving notice of request to assign enough to allow the tenant serve their notice of termination?

I ask because I am in this very situation. I am seeking to terminate the lease by Nov 10th (must give 35 days notes as been here 6 months+) and I have requested in writing to have the lease assigned. The landlord will hopefully meet the prospective replacements tomorrow. Need I wait for my notice to be served after they have been accepted?

I want to retain my deposit and to avoid at all costs being pursued for arrears.

Very grateful if you could give your opinion on this as I'm having difficulty clarifying it in my reading of the Res Prop Act 2004.