Man Utd v West Ham

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

It's not really that weird, only one player playing out of position, Pique, with O'Shea playing in a position he's played in quite a bit. With the exception of Neville, I think this is our best team.

Are you having a laugh? Fletcher in ahead of....well....anyone? Evra? No Brown??? This is far from being our best team.

TheMonster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Given form and fixtures left for both clubs, it is more realistic that Liverpool would catch United than United catch Chelsea.

That said, my money is it finishing as is.

Form = 7 wins in a row for United:rolleyes:

cournioni

Jimi-Spandex wrote:

Vidic looked very good too, hopefully he can strike up a bit of a partnership with Rio.

I hope not, Wes Brown is our best defender at the moment. If anyone is to be dropped, it's Rio.

dirkey_wynne

Utd can't catch Chelsea. Our run of form has come against the following 7 teams: (home) West Ham, Birmingham, Newcastle, Fulham (away) West Brom, Wigan, Portsmouth. Wigan and West Ham in 8th and 9th are the highest placed of these. These are games Utd expect to win. We have a few quite tough games to go, as has been pointed out, we'll lose some points along the way. Spurs away, Arsenal at home, Chelsea away, Bolton away - all extremely tough games. I'm more concerned with consolidating 2nd ahead of the red scousers at this stage.

besty

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Utd can't catch Chelsea. Our run of form has come against the following 7 teams: (home) West Ham, Birmingham, Newcastle, Fulham (away) West Brom, Wigan, Portsmouth. Wigan and West Ham in 8th and 9th are the highest placed of these. These are games Utd expect to win.

But it's the consistency that we have lacked in the past couple of years.

cournioni

Spot on besty, United have had no problems playing the big teams this season. The main problems have been against the teams like dirkey_wynne has listed. For example, the games we have lost have been against the likes of Blackburn, Man City and Middlesborough. These are teams that the United team of the 90's would beat with ease or grind out a win against.

This was the point that Roy Keane was making in that interview. Players have no problems motivating themselves for games like Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal but when it comes to someone like Portsmouth they couldn't be arsed.

I for one am pleased that the United players have answered this in the correct manner.

dirkey_wynne

besty wrote:

But it's the consistency that we have lacked in the past couple of years.

It sure is the consistency we have lacked. But, as I said, we're still not going to catch Chelsea.

PHB

Are you having a laugh? Fletcher in ahead of....well....anyone? Evra? No Brown??? This is far from being our best team.

Well, Fletcher imo is better than O'Shea and Giggs in CM, he had flashes of brilliance last night, especially at the start of the game.
Evra is a top quality player, just give him some time. He is better than Slyvestre going forward and people say he had a bad game at the back, but he didn't **** up once, and West ham had no shots on target in the second half. Sounds like a good defensive game for me. Furthermore he was fairly decent going forward.

While I like Brown, think he is a great player when he is playing, he is always [\b] injured. Therefore he shouldn't be in our top 11, because he won't be in it consistantly. Vidic has shown he is adjusting to the game and is doing well.

IMO, our top team is:

---

VDS

---

Neville-Rio-Vidic---Evra
Ronaldo-Fletcher-O'Shea-Park
Rooney-Van Nist

That said, next season I'd like to see next season our top team being

VDS
Neville-Rio-Vidic-Heinze
Ronaldo-Jones-Diarra-Park
Van Nist-Rooney

But in reality, the team is based around squads, and at the moment, our squad is absolutely ****ing fantastic except in the center of midfield. We need two people bought there, with Jones and Fletcher providing good youthful enthusiastic cover imo.
After that, bring it on next season

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

Well, Fletcher imo is better than O'Shea and Giggs in CM, he had flashes of brilliance last night, especially at the start of the game.

Fletcher is simply not good enough at Utd, in my opinion. Not even to be a squad member. I have never seen him have a good enough game for Utd. I've seen him perform averagely, at best. He gets knocked over by a gust of wind, doesn't score many, doesn't set up many...all in all he doesn't do much. Apart from give the ball away a lot.

PHB wrote:

Evra is a top quality player, just give him some time. He is better than Slyvestre going forward and people say he had a bad game at the back, but he didn't **** up once, and West ham had no shots on target in the second half.

I hope you're right, but I don't think so. I've watched him quite a bit. He might make a squad player on the left wing, but as a full back he won't cut it, in my opinion. He heads off up forward and when Utd lose the ball, doesn't get back quick enough, consequently is caught out of position. I don't think west ham not having shots is much of a reflection on how he played. I am not a fan of Silvestre, but I'd much rather see him at left full. Come back Heinze...soon.

PHB wrote:

PHB wrote:

While I like Brown, think he is a great player when he is playing, he is always [\b] injured. Therefore he shouldn't be in our top 11, because he won't be in it consistantly. Vidic has shown he is adjusting to the game and is doing well.

Brown should be in our first team when he is fit, simply because he is our best centre half. By a long shot. Vidic looks like he's adjusting, but for now, Brown should be in. Once he comes back from injury.

PHB wrote:

IMO, our top team is:

---

VDS

---

Neville-Rio-Vidic---Evra
Ronaldo-Fletcher-O'Shea-Park
Rooney-Van Nist

I can't believe Giggs isn't in there. I'm not a massive fan of his, as posts on here will prove, but he's far better than both those lads currently in your central midfield dream pairing.

PHB wrote:

That said, next season I'd like to see next season our top team being

VDS
Neville-Rio-Vidic-Heinze
Ronaldo-Jones-Diarra-Park
Van Nist-Rooney

Jones looks a good player. I'm presuming you're talking about D Jones, rather than R Jones, because R Jones is appalling. D Jones should be our back up, we need to sign 2 central midfielders at least, during the summer.

PHB

Fletcher is simply not good enough at Utd, in my opinion. Not even to be a squad member. I have never seen him have a good enough game for Utd. I've seen him perform averagely, at best. He gets knocked over by a gust of wind, doesn't score many, doesn't set up many...all in all he doesn't do much. Apart from give the ball away a lot.

Fletcher may not contribute in form of goals and assists, but what he does do largely goes unnoticed. He has an incredible first touch, increible workrate, and an incredible ability to read the game. Keano said that Fletcher is one of the best readers of the game he has ever seen. Give him time, and he will become a united legend. That said, he is still young.

I am of course refering to D Jones, Ritchie isn't a bad player, he's still young, we don't know what he'll be like yet.
D Jones is a top quality player and I'd be happy to see him as part of a midfield pairing next year. Don't forget Scholes is back next season too, so we'd have
Jones - Fletcher - Scholes - Mikel(hopefully) - New Guy
we could live with one top top top quality signing, liek Diarra. Obviously 2 would be great, but I won't be disappointed if only one comes in.

As for Giggs, i'm a huge fan of his, my favorite player for eons. That said, he isn't a CM, doesn't control a game, and while he gets forward a bit, lets the midfield get overrun. It's better to have 2 midfielders who can at least stop the other teams midfield, even if they don't contribute to ours. Giggs doesn't stop it, but doesn't contribute enough, and leaves us vulnerable.

Brown is not our best CB, Rio is. Just because RIo doesn't lunge into tackles doesn't mean is isn't as good as Brown. Brown is naturally our best defender(not CB, just defender), but he is injured all the ****ing time. Every time he is getting a run in the squad and looking strong, what happens? he gets injured. Theres no point in having him there if he keeps getting injured, and it takes him a couple of games to get back to his best every time, thats a couple of games we can't afford. Unless he can prove he is going to stop getting injured, he shouldn't in the united squad, except for cover

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

Fletcher may not contribute in form of goals and assists, but what he does do largely goes unnoticed. He has an incredible first touch, increible workrate, and an incredible ability to read the game. Keano said that Fletcher is one of the best readers of the game he has ever seen. Give him time, and he will become a united legend. That said, he is still young.

I am of course refering to D Jones, Ritchie isn't a bad player, he's still young, we don't know what he'll be like yet.
D Jones is a top quality player and I'd be happy to see him as part of a midfield pairing next year. Don't forget Scholes is back next season too, so we'd have
Jones - Fletcher - Scholes - Mikel(hopefully) - New Guy
we could live with one top top top quality signing, liek Diarra. Obviously 2 would be great, but I won't be disappointed if only one comes in.

As for Giggs, i'm a huge fan of his, my favorite player for eons. That said, he isn't a CM, doesn't control a game, and while he gets forward a bit, lets the midfield get overrun. It's better to have 2 midfielders who can at least stop the other teams midfield, even if they don't contribute to ours. Giggs doesn't stop it, but doesn't contribute enough, and leaves us vulnerable.

Brown is not our best CB, Rio is. Just because RIo doesn't lunge into tackles doesn't mean is isn't as good as Brown. Brown is naturally our best defender(not CB, just defender), but he is injured all the ****ing time. Every time he is getting a run in the squad and looking strong, what happens? he gets injured. Theres no point in having him there if he keeps getting injured, and it takes him a couple of games to get back to his best every time, thats a couple of games we can't afford. Unless he can prove he is going to stop getting injured, he shouldn't in the united squad, except for cover

The work Fletcher does, doesn't go unnoticed. He does nothing. I've seen that "man" run into challenges at 80-20% favourite to come out with the ball. He steams in, up until he gets to within about 2 yards of the player, when he shirks back, afraid of getting hurt. He rarely wins challenges. yet this is construed as helping to stop other teams midfields play? To get a balance you need 1 destructor in midfield, 1 constructor. O'Shea for now can take the detstructor role, at least he can tackle. Giggs does more both going forward and tackling back than Fletch. Fletch is a nothing player. You talk of him becoming a Utd legend, but the way I see it going is, the minute Fergie leaves as manager, that's when Fletch's Utd career will come to a grinding halt. Plain and simple. Next time he starts, follow him. Watch how often he loses out in tackles, watch how often he gives the ball away. I'd say something if he was doing a tidy job like Makelele, tidying up etc. but he doesn't. He contributes nothing. He's a major liability.

As for Rio - his mistakes have cost us quite a few goals this year. He's lackadaisical. Brown is a far better player. Witness Rio a few weeks back against Blackburn. Typical of him. He tries to blame it on not getting a shout from the keeper, but if you don't get a shout, in your 18 yard box, even Sunday league centre forwards would know what to do in that position - clear your lines. Get that ball as far away as possible. You don't try and header it back, off the back of your head, to your keeper. Ridiculous. But typical of him.

gracehopper

I thought it was a good performance last night against a decent west ham team. There are times in recent matches were the attacking play of Ronaldo, Rooney,RVN and recently Giggsy has been nothing short of breathtaking. I also think Park should be a starter. His movement is class and he showed a bit of agression to go past the left back for the goal.

I was impressed with Pique his passing was excellent allthough he was caught out of position a couple of times. I suppose thats only natural as he's a centre back.

Fletcher is terrible. End of story. What are his good attributes? I play against players that are a lot better than him. In fact F*ck it, i'm better than him. No in all seriousness he doesnt belong in the PL he's not up to it. Youth isnt an excuse. Either your good enough or not. Look at Cesc,joey o brien, Rooney.

Evra is a really good player. His support play going forward is great and he's really good at making up 2v1 situations on the wing. His height however is a problem that could be exploited by certain teams in the PL.

Vidic looks to be finding his feet now and i think he'll work his way in as a first team regular. It'll be Vidic and Rio as the main 2 CB's for the simple reason that wes brown cant stay fit for more than 5-6 weeks. Wes has been our best defender in the last couple of weeks so its fairly disappointing to see him out again. I hope he makes the WC squad, on recent form he deserves it.

O Shea has been decent in the centre of the park. He's been good at covering up the gaps and winning the ball back. We'll get away using him against west Ham but not against good european sides. We're not like chelsea as we're not willing to play one up front so we can have a sweeper in front of the back four. Both our midfield players have to be proficient attackers and defenders.

As was mentioned below about midfield i would agree that its time to get jones back from loan. If we could get Mikel committed to the club and buy Diarra there'd be the makings of a CL and PL winning squad. Midfield players is one thing but the desire shown in the last few weeks is also needed.

Mitch Connor

"Fletcher may not contribute in form of goals and assists, but what he does do largely goes unnoticed. He has an incredible first touch, increible workrate, and an incredible ability to read the game. Keano said that Fletcher is one of the best readers of the game he has ever seen. Give him time, and he will become a united legend. That said, he is still young."

I know what you are talking about, but i disagree - he is a DECENT player but adds nothing to the team. He doesn't create goals, doesn't score goals, doesn't make enough tackles, doesn't win headers and does not make enough interceptions. He needs to add a lot to his game if he is to be a top united player for years to come following in the footsteps of Ince, Keane and Robson in the recent past.

dirkey_wynne

Tauren wrote:

"Fletcher may not contribute in form of goals and assists, but what he does do largely goes unnoticed. He has an incredible first touch, increible workrate, and an incredible ability to read the game. Keano said that Fletcher is one of the best readers of the game he has ever seen. Give him time, and he will become a united legend. That said, he is still young."

I know what you are talking about, but i disagree - he is a DECENT player but adds nothing to the team. He doesn't create goals, doesn't score goals, doesn't make enough tackles, doesn't win headers and does not make enough interceptions. He needs to add a lot to his game if he is to be a top united player for years to come following in the footsteps of Ince, Keane and Robson in the recent past.

Kleberson even contributed more to the team!

Mitch Connor

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Kleberson even contributed more to the team!

I still think Klebs could have been a very good player for us, if he had been given the chance.

Whenever he played with the first tam and not in a midfield of Djemba Djemba, Miller and someone else, he did well. I remember him being easily the best player on the park in an away game at Blackburn, then he was dropped completely from the squad for the next game - how is a player supposed to do well in those circumstances?

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

Form = 7 wins in a row for United:rolleyes:

I agree United are on great form. But seeing as they are on such good form now I can't see them matching that for their remaining 8 games. When has any team won 15 in a row? That's also why I said "form and fixtures".

Liverpool fans were laughed at two weeks ago for claiming they could still catch United. And now United can suddenly catch Chelsea. Plenty have insinuated it.

As regards Fletcher, good God get a grip PHB. The lad is 22. And still crap. A United legend? Like who? Keane? Robson? Charlton? You get better and better with every post!

And also you talk of David Jones is a "top quality player" why at 21 (22 this year) is he still to make his full team debut for United? This has been the root of United's problem in midfield. Reliance on youngsters who are just not good enough. A couple of goals in the Dutch league does not change this.

astrofool

To be fair it was Liverpool's fans mocking utd. fans about catching Chelsea when 1) Utd. will have just won seven games in a row 2) For Utd. to catch Chelsea they will need 1 more point than Liverpool need to catch Utd.

Now do pool fans really think utd will end up a point behind Chelsea, and how many also still think pool will catch Utd.

Now, of course anything could happen, but its all a bit hippocritical.

fade2black

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I agree United are on great form. But seeing as they are on such good form now I can't see them matching that for their remaining 8 games. When has any team won 15 in a row? That's also why I said "form and fixtures".

Liverpool fans were laughed at two weeks ago for claiming they could still catch United. And now United can suddenly catch Chelsea. Plenty have insinuated it.

As regards Fletcher, good God get a grip PHB. The lad is 22. And still crap. A United legend? Like who? Keane? Robson? Charlton? You get better and better with every post!

And also you talk of David Jones is a "top quality player" why at 21 (22 this year) is he still to make his full team debut for United? This has been the root of United's problem in midfield. Reliance on youngsters who are just not good enough. A couple of goals in the Dutch league does not change this.

And you sir get better and better with every post, at least more entertaining as you go on anyway. You continue to post like some who think they know they know all about football but in reality knows painfully little.

Firstly you agree that united are in great form but don't think they can keep it up because "when has any team won 15 games in a row"? Great reasoning there. The fact is that after United won 4 in a row you probably would have come on here and said, sure they've won 4 in a row but they're not going to win 8....:rolleyes:

Liverpool fans were also laughed at for believing they could win the european cup last season. Some of them even laughed at themselves at the mere idea of it.

Darren Fletcher must be worried that at the age of 22 the ridiculously named Jiven Turkey has written off his chance of ever becoming a United legend. The guy's workrate is extraordinary and he has been showing the early hallmarks of a typical Man United captain. If he get's the opportunity he could be a real commodity to United for years to come.

And in that last paragraph you just sound like Alan Hanson.

county

fade2black wrote:

Darren Fletcher must be worried that at the age of 22 the ridiculously named Jiven Turkey has written off his chance of ever becoming a United legend. The guy's workrate is extraordinary and he has been showing the early hallmarks of a typical Man United captain. If he get's the opportunity he could be a real commodity to United for years to come.




sorry,you`re joking right,my nana could push fletcher of the ball,and let me quote you ............early hallmarks of a typical man united captain,please tell me your not serious,please please please tell me your not serious,sorry fade,i cannot beilive you think this.i am gob smacked:eek:

PHB

I agree United are on great form. But seeing as they are on such good form now I can't see them matching that for their remaining 8 games. When has any team won 15 in a row? That's also why I said "form and fixtures".

I don't know, when has any team been on 78 after 31 matches in the premiership. The football has changed, the bigger teams are just getting bigger.

Liverpool fans were laughed at two weeks ago for claiming they could still catch United. And now United can suddenly catch Chelsea. Plenty have insinuated it.

Liverpool may still catch United. United may still catch Chelsea. I don't expect either to happen, but I'm hopeful.

As regards Fletcher, good God get a grip PHB. The lad is 22. And still crap. A United legend? Like who? Keane? Robson? Charlton? You get better and better with every post!

Do I? That's nice. I suppose I'm getting better writing this. Maybe I should post 4 seperate responses so I get better and better. I really feel myself improving as I write this. It's incredible.
The lad is 22, and still crap. Yeh, nuts, I can't believe the 22 year old is still crap. He will stay at that level, the crap level, for the rest of his life.
What are his good qualities?

Incredible first touch
Can read the game as well as anyone

They are his two best qualities. What always amazes me is he is sooooooo ****e, yet he can play in a midfield of him and O'Shea, and dominate the incredible Cesc or even Gerrard. Don't get me wrong, I think they are better players, but to imply that he is at the level of anyone of this board is just a testament to how far this ****e has gone. The guy has about 100 caps for United at this stage, and anyone who thinks thats easy to do is just kidding themselves. Also, anyone who thinks Fergie is just playing him cause he is scottish, I refer you to Michael Stewart.

And also you talk of David Jones is a "top quality player" why at 21 (22 this year) is he still to make his full team debut for United? This has been the root of United's problem in midfield. Reliance on youngsters who are just not good enough. A couple of goals in the Dutch league does not change this.

A couple of goals in the dutch league doesn't change this? How about 2 MOM preformances in the dutch league. How about 6 goals in 13 games from midfield in a struggling side. How about being 2-0 down, and him driving the team oonwards. How about having won the quadruple as the youth captain, yep, that means they won everything there was to win. How about being incredible for Preston, and that they were desperate to keep him. How about him pretty much outpreforming every midfielder in the Dutch first division. Yeh, I think he is going to be a great player, and is the best youth prospect that United have.
Also, I never suggested he should be in our top 11, but to have him rotating with Scholes - Diarra - Jones - Mikel would be perfectly happy to me. p.s.
You don't win anything with kids

fade2black

county wrote:

sorry,you`re joking right,my nana could push fletcher of the ball,and let me quote you ............early hallmarks of a typical man united captain,please tell me your not serious,please please please tell me your not serious,sorry fade,i cannot beilive you think this.i am gob smacked:eek

:eek: What? Time will tell but I do believe the guy is improving and who's to say where he could be in 5 years. He certainly isn't crap or anywhere near it.

county

fade2black wrote:

:eek: What? Time will tell but I do believe the guy is improving and who's to say where he could be in 5 years. He certainly isn't crap or anywhere near it.

you have your opinion and i have mine,but being a betting man,i would put my mortgage on fletcher not playing at old trafford in 5 years

fade2black

Not really a betting man myself so I wouldn't know anything about that.




Eh, anyway, he may or may not be at Old Trafford in 5 years but it's bit early to write him off I think.

dirkey_wynne

fade2black wrote:

Darren Fletcher must be worried that at the age of 22 the ridiculously named Jiven Turkey has written off his chance of ever becoming a United legend. The guy's workrate is extraordinary and he has been showing the early hallmarks of a typical Man United captain. If he get's the opportunity he could be a real commodity to United for years to come.

Workrate is all well and good if you can then do something useful like a) win the ball b) distribute the ball meaningfully.

I don't know about any other Utd fans on here, but hte mere mention of Fletcher and Utd captain in teh same sentence had me empty reaching. If I had had breakfast this morning I'd have been flocked.

Dont be at yourself

No, it's ok - Fletcher and O Shea can dominate the Liverpool and Arsenal midfields. PHB has decreed that this is so.

PHB

Yes they have that ability, and have done it.
Are you disputing this?

Dont be at yourself

I'm sorry PHB, but you're never going to convince me that a Fletcher - O Shea midfield is of the same standard as a Gerrard - Alonso, or Fibreglass - Gilberto. Frankly, I'm surprised you've convinced yourself.

Sure, you could qualify your statement and say that if so-and-so played well, so-and-so had a bad game or whatever, they might dominate a particular match. But over a season, or even over a run of games, there is absolutely no doubt who the better midfield is.

PHB

No I'm not and I havn't convinced myself. Don't be silly. Although Fabregas Gilberto aren't anywhere near as strong as Gerrard Alonso.
Liverpool definally have the better midfield, Arsenal probably do too.

What I was disputing is this idea that Fletcher is a ****e player who will never make it. But as i've shown, he has in the past dominated the midfields that are better than him. He has the potential to do this on a regular basis and I think he will realise that potential.

See my post

What always amazes me is he is sooooooo ****e, yet he can play in a midfield of him and O'Shea, and dominate the incredible Cesc or even Gerrard. Don't get me wrong, I think they are better players, but to imply that he is at the level of anyone of this board is just a testament to how far this ****e has gone

But you didn't seem to read that for some reason, I don't know.

Dont be at yourself

There you go again spouting on about potential, instead of dealing with the here and now. As already said, he's 22, and he needs to be showing a lot more than this mystical 'potential' which you constantly trot out as an excuse to Man Utd's current failings. But hey, lets say you're right (note: you're not), and he does have bags of potential about to be realised. That doesn't change that as it stands, Fletcher is currently an average midfielder, at best.

I honestly dont know where you get this bull**** from that he has incredible first touch, ability to read the game etc. Stick Darren Fletcher in the Middlesboros and Aston Villas of this world, and nobody would even know his name - a completely unremarkable midfielder.

dirkey_wynne

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

There you go again spouting on about potential, instead of dealing with the here and now. As already said, he's 22, and he needs to be showing a lot more than this mystical 'potential' which you constantly trot out as an excuse to Man Utd's current failings. But hey, lets say you're right (note: you're not), and he does have bags of potential about to be realised. That doesn't change that as it stands, Fletcher is currently an average midfielder, at best.

I honestly dont know where you get this bull**** from that he has incredible first touch, ability to read the game etc. Stick Darren Fletcher in the Middlesboros and Aston Villas of this world, and nobody would even know his name - a completely unremarkable midfielder.

Spot on. As I said, when Fergies managerial career ends at OT, as will Fletch's career.

Jivin Turkey

fade2black wrote:

And you sir get better and better with every post, at least more entertaining as you go on anyway. You continue to post like some who think they know they know all about football but in reality knows painfully little.

Why don't we take it to the thunderdome to discuss it eh? It's great to see you still hold a grudge.

fade2black wrote:

Firstly you agree that united are in great form but don't think they can keep it up because "when has any team won 15 games in a row"? Great reasoning there. The fact is that after United won 4 in a row you probably would have come on here and said, sure they've won 4 in a row but they're not going to win 8....:rolleyes:

Ever hear of all good things come to an end? A cliché but a fact of life. I've already said United are in blistering form, but as someone else pointed out they have had an easay run, just like Liverpool when they put together a similar run earlier in the year, the litmus test comes against the big teams who over the course of this run, United have played none.

It's not some chip on my shoulder I have against United. After four games of this run I would have looked at their upcoming fixtures and said hell yeah they could make it eight. I don't think they will lose more than one (at most) over their remaining matches, but I think they will drop points, and I also don't think that Chelsea will lose the three matches required (sure they have only lost three in the last 15 months or so) over their next seven games.

Seems logical enough no?

fade2black wrote:

Liverpool fans were also laughed at for believing they could win the european cup last season. Some of them even laughed at themselves at the mere idea of it.

And when they did win it they were met with "Any team can win a knock out competition, the real test of a quality team is in the league over 38 games". A saying which holds some truth.

fade2black wrote:

Darren Fletcher must be worried that at the age of 22 the ridiculously named Jiven Turkey has written off his chance of ever becoming a United legend. The guy's workrate is extraordinary and he has been showing the early hallmarks of a typical Man United captain. If he get's the opportunity he could be a real commodity to United for years to come.

I'm sure DF doesn't give a monkeys or will never know what I think of him. He is a decent player, probably PL standard, but no where near "United Legend" status. Are you trying to say he is? The oh so cool, dark and mysteriously named "Fade2Black". And its Jivin Turkey.

Plenty of United fans agree with me. If you and PHB think he deserves to be mentioned with Robson and Keane fine, even I think that is an insult to their achievements.

fade2black wrote:

And in that last paragraph you just sound like Alan Hanson.

Maybe, and maybe Jones will prove me wrong. But I'm pretty happy with my choice of words given that the lad is 22 this year, has never made a first team appearance, despite United lack of quality midfield options.

If you are good enough, you are old enough, step forward Rooney, Fabregas, Owen etc.

PHB wrote:

A couple of goals in the dutch league doesn't change this? How about 2 MOM preformances in the dutch league. How about 6 goals in 13 games from midfield in a struggling side. How about being 2-0 down, and him driving the team oonwards. How about having won the quadruple as the youth captain, yep, that means they won everything there was to win. How about being incredible for Preston, and that they were desperate to keep him. How about him pretty much outpreforming every midfielder in the Dutch first division. Yeh, I think he is going to be a great player, and is the best youth prospect that United have.
Also, I never suggested he should be in our top 11, but to have him rotating with Scholes - Diarra - Jones - Mikel would be perfectly happy to me. p.s.
You don't win anything with kids

A quick look at Wikipedia doesn't really indicate this "incredible" form that he appears to be on at every club he's at. Impressive yes, incredible? Certainly not.

The best youth prospect United have? Wasn't that Rossi last week? Pique the week before? Who si flavour of the month next?

I also like you rotational midfield, if people were taking bets on not a single one playing a game for Manchester United in the league next year I will happily wager.

fade2black

lol I was looking forward to your reply. Fair play to ya.

Jivin Turkey

Oh no stop. You are winding me up on the internet. You want to see me here I'm boiling. Do you have a web cam I can show you how mad I am, you would never believe.

How about we take this to the thunderdome??????????? I'm a child, I'll fit right in.

It also took you two minutes to reply to my reply, you really were looking forward to it.............

fade2black

ah right ah right


lighten up will ya.

wheres me jumpa

United have some tough games. Tomorrow being away to Bolton. So this new "form" will be tested in the remaining games. While we have been playing well offensively there have been times in recent games when we hav been shown up also. Despite hammering Newcastle they still found ways through, Birmingham as bad as they were found gaps too.

So really we have been up against poor opposition of late. So I am excited/curious to see how we handle the upcoming games. Bolton, Arsenal and Spurs are a test of any team in the league.

PHB

Actually, you'll find I have always thought David Jones was the best youth prospect coming out of United, go back and read my posts instead of guessing for no bloody reason.

If you and PHB think he deserves to be mentioned with Robson and Keane fine, even I think that is an insult to their achievements.

Don't be silly, of course he isn't there.

Potential doesn't mean he is currently ****e nbm.

Fletcher doesn't preform consistantly, just like Cesc doesn't. But he has been able to play in a midfield with O'Shea and control the midfield ahead of Cesc Gilberto and Alonso Gerrard. That shows a level of potential, that he can reach on a more consistant basis. Just like Cesc against Juve shows a level of potential, but he doesn't play that well every week does he? Infact over the season he has had qutie a few bad games, and because of this Arsenal aren't doing great in the league. That's because he is a young player and you need to be more tolerant.

By your logic, you wouldn't want Cesc in your midfield either because he is a long way away from being a consistant preformer. And I agree with that, thats why I want to keep him around, and have him part of the midfield 5, behind Diarra - Mikel - Scholes - Jones - Fletcher, and give him time to develop.

I don't think he is in the same league as Keane, I doubt he ever will be, but there are like 10 midfielders who are. That's not a way to judge somebody, its whether I think over the long term he can make a positive contribution to United, and I think he can. I'm not saying he is fantastic now, I'm not saying he might be the best in the world in the future, but I'm saying he is a solid player now, who can develop and that he is not the ****e player that people make him out to be.

Dont be at yourself

He's not ****e, he's painfully average, and doesn't show signs that he will ever be anything else. As such, he's not the type of player that Man Utd should have anywhere near their first eleven.

PHB

Alas we disagree about his potential, one of us will be proven right in the long term.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Don't be silly, of course he isn't there.

Potential doesn't mean he is currently ****e nbm.

Fletcher doesn't preform consistantly, just like Cesc doesn't. But he has been able to play in a midfield with O'Shea and control the midfield ahead of Cesc Gilberto and Alonso Gerrard. That shows a level of potential, that he can reach on a more consistant basis. Just like Cesc against Juve shows a level of potential, but he doesn't play that well every week does he? Infact over the season he has had qutie a few bad games, and because of this Arsenal aren't doing great in the league. That's because he is a young player and you need to be more tolerant.

By your logic, you wouldn't want Cesc in your midfield either because he is a long way away from being a consistant preformer. And I agree with that, thats why I want to keep him around, and have him part of the midfield 5, behind Diarra - Mikel - Scholes - Jones - Fletcher, and give him time to develop.

I don't think he is in the same league as Keane, I doubt he ever will be, but there are like 10 midfielders who are. That's not a way to judge somebody, its whether I think over the long term he can make a positive contribution to United, and I think he can. I'm not saying he is fantastic now, I'm not saying he might be the best in the world in the future, but I'm saying he is a solid player now, who can develop and that he is not the ****e player that people make him out to be.

You said Fletcher will be a United legend. If he ever qualfiies for that status he will be in the same league as Keane and Robson. That is complete and utter non-sense.

I originally said he was crap but have sine gone back to say he is ok. He is crap in terms of the level United want to be playing at. He may be Premiership standard and be able to do a job for a midtable team, but just about.

You talk about being able to control Cesc/Alonso/Gerrard but just he played in a game against Arsenal or Liverpool that United won does not mean he controlled them. In fact I don't remember the lad ever winning a MOTM award, because as people have said, he is an anonymous player.

And as I said above, you do realise that in your five man United rotional midfield there are two players that have not yet signed for United, and one that is rumoured to be finished.

Pepe LeFrits

Can you stop mentioning Fabregas and Fletcher in the same sentence please.

PHB

I originally said he was crap but have sine gone back to say he is ok.

Then I'm happy. Has Makelele ever won a MOM award? Those type of players don't get them. The work he does goes unnoticed, just like Makekele, except of course Makelele does it at a higher level. If Liverpool and United are playing, and Gerrard plays badly and does nothing, I attribute that to Fletchers defensive work. Just like if Chelsea and United were playing, and Scholes doesn't do well, its because Makelele is doing something to put him off his game

wheres me jumpa

My two cents on Fletcher....

He works very hard. You cant fault his committment and drive. However I have been waiting for sometime for him to develop into the player even Ferguson expects him to become. He doesnt look much different to me now than when he first burst onto the scene. He remains very light and seems to be void of any power or strength.

I hope he proves me wrong. But Im not holdingmy breath. As things stand I would sooner see him sold in the summer and the club bring in a new face. Like I said I hope he proved me wrong.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Then I'm happy. Has Makelele ever won a MOM award? Those type of players don't get them. The work he does goes unnoticed, just like Makekele, except of course Makelele does it at a higher level. If Liverpool and United are playing, and Gerrard plays badly and does nothing, I attribute that to Fletchers defensive work. Just like if Chelsea and United were playing, and Scholes doesn't do well, its because Makelele is doing something to put him off his game

Fletcher does not do a similar job to Makélele. And again mentioning him in the same breath is insulting.

You are happy that I think Fletcher is ok. Would do a job for a midtable PL club. Yet he is going to be a United "legend".

fade2black

Get over it lads will ya? Fletcher is ok, he's not the worst and he's not the best. Move on.