Next time I am going to the cops!!

prospect

I am ending on this one:

Bard wrote:

They are fact. You've shown me nothing legal to say otherwise. Let's look at your "reasons" all the same...,

From www.lireland.com under rules of the road, driving, motorway driving:

OVERTAKING
Overtake on the right only, unless traffic is moving in queues and the traffic queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are. Before you start to overtake, check that the way is clear, (behind and ahead) and signal well in advance.
Remember that traffic may be travelling significantly faster than on ordinary roads.
Be particularly careful at dusk, during darkness, and in foggy or misty conditions when it is more difficult to judge speed and distance. Return to your original lane as soon as possible.

Happy? Note that it says QUEUES OF TRAFFIC, not single cars. So you are WRONG.

Also, under the general rule of overtaking, it states you can over take on the left in "SLOW MOVING TRAFFIC" where the "VEHICLES" on your right are moving slower.

Bard wrote:

Firstly the slower car shouldn't be in the overtaking lane anyway. Secondly, they should check their mirrors at regular intervals and so should be aware of any oncoming vehicle on either side. Thirdly, anyone attempting to overtake them on the left should at least sound their horn as a courtesy to warn them that they're doing so.

Oh right, so the Rules according to Bard now read: It is legal to 'undertake' as long as you beep first!

Bard wrote:

Not according to my "wacky ideas", no. If someone is silly enough to drive slowly in the overtaking lane, then yes, of course they could have a stream of cars overtaking them on the left. - And hopefully one of those cars would be a garda car and they'd be pulled over for impeding the flow of traffic and causing danger to other road users.

So you think this 'Undertake whenever you want rule' is based on the assumption there will always be a garda car present.

Bard wrote:

If the rule is that I cannot overtake them on the left while they trundle along at, say, 60Km/h in the right lane, then YES, of course they ARE impeding my journey by forcing me to slow down! Thankfully, that isn't the rule. (And nobody said anything about "bombing" past cars).

But haven't proven they would not get out of your way. So therefore they have not impeded you, you just assumed they would.

Bard wrote:

And there you go again with the personal insults. Can you not actually argue your point without stooping so low? Without knowing anything about my own driving sklls you first say I'm a bad driver, then you say I'm a troll, then you say I'm "inept". There's no need for that.

sorry, but I simply cannot believe the level of ineptitude, fact.
If you cannot get this relatively simple rule of the road right, gives me a fairly good indication of your standards of driving,
sorry, but you did come accross as a troll to me.

Bard wrote:

Nowhere in that particular rule in the book does it specify that it is ONLY for the situation where there are a large number of cars in both lanes.

See above

Bard wrote:

I've asked this already, but I'll ask it again... Are you REALLY suggesting that on the motorway, if a car is driving at 60Km/h in the overtaking lane, that I am breaking the law by overtaking it on the left?

Technically yes. It has happened to me too. I always pull out into the right lane behing them. If they do not move I give a very quick flash. If they still do not move, I will undertake them. It is illegal, but I do it anyway!


Now can you please kindly accept you are wrong (although I do not expect that you'll admit it), and stop misleading other boards users about the rules of the road. Some are young and impressionable.

Bard

I accept that I made a mistake in my assumption about the law, yes. Clearly, it needs to be looked at further by those who write and re-write it. I don't think I should be legally penalised for "undertaking" an ignorant slow driver who refuses to pull over.

I don't accept the following, though:

Oh right, so the Rules according to Bard now read: It is legal to 'undertake' as long as you beep first!

I didn't say that. I said that if you're going to 'undertake' them, it would be a courtesy to sound your horn to warn them that you're there.

So you think this 'Undertake whenever you want rule' is based on the assumption there will always be a garda car present.

I didn't say you should "undertake whenever you want". You should "undertake" when you've got no other option, frankly.

And I didn't assume there will always be a garda car there. I said that hopefully, in the situation where someone stubbornly sits in the overtaking lane driving slowly, they will be pulled over by the gardaí for impeding the flow of traffic and causing danger to other road users.

i.e.: I'd like to see these bad ignorant drivers who drive slowly in the overtaking lane dealt with by the authorities.

But haven't proven they would not get out of your way. So therefore they have not impeded you, you just assumed they would.

That's a fair point. However, I really don't see the practicality in changing lanes and slowing down just to sit behind a slow driver in the overtaking lane until they decide to move over to the left.

It smacks of "making a point" to them - telling them what to do - which I'd rather not do. I'm on the road to get somewhere, and I don't believe I have the time or the arrogance to try to 'educate' other drivers. Generally, when these cases arise, I'll drive past them (at a reasonable speed) on the left, giving them a short beep of the horn as I do so. I think that's less arrogant than pulling in behind them, flashing them and forcing them to change lanes.

It's more "you shouldn't be there, mate", than "GET OUT OF MY WAY!".

Generally, I see the "oops" look on their faces and they pull over after I've passed them. In a lot of these cases, people don't realise they're driving too slowly - but that's no reason to be rude to them.

sorry, but you did come accross as a troll to me.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not. I just happened to believe I was 100% correct - as most people tend to believe on these boards most of the time. I'm happy to accept though that "undertaking" is technically illegal except in the example of slow moving (heavy) traffic... although I do believe that the gardaí would take a dimmer view of someone driving slowly in the right hand lane than those "undertaking" them on the left.

*shrug*

el tel

RobAMerc wrote:

Why people seem to dwel on the fact I flashed her more than the fact she hit the brakes is totally beyond me!

Brake testing other motorists is among the most contemptuous, despicable and confrontational things to do. Everything else pales in comparison.

BrianD3

I just happened to believe I was 100% correct - as most people tend to believe on these boards most of the time.

Fair play to you for admitting you might have got it wrong. Most posters on boards never back down in situations like this!

prospect

Bard wrote:

I
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not. I just happened to believe I was 100% correct - as most people tend to believe on these boards most of the time. I'm happy to accept though that "undertaking" is technically illegal except in the example of slow moving (heavy) traffic... although I do believe that the gardaí would take a dimmer view of someone driving slowly in the right hand lane than those "undertaking" them on the left.

*shrug*

Agreed with BrianD3, fair play.


A lot of the problem is that:
If you do get caught 'undertaking', you would would be prosecuted more severly than the idiot that hogs the outside lane and causes the whole problem in the first place.

daymobrew

BrianD3 wrote:

Fair play to you for admitting you might have got it wrong. Most posters on boards never back down in situations like this!

In a non-motorway/dual-carriageway situation can you suggest action for when I am being tailgated in a manner when I feel in danger?

jdwals

There is ine problem with this whole undertaking a que of traffic being legal where as undertaking a single car is not.
If you come up against a single car driving at say 100kph on a 120kph stretch of motorway.
If, because of the rules of the road you decide not to undertake them and they won't move from the overtaking lane into the driving lane you are left with two options. Option 1. Tuck in behind them in the overtaking lane or Option 2. You can reduce your speed until it matches the persons speed in the overtaking lane (because to drive faster means you undertake them) and sit on their shoulder in the driving lane. (Option 3. involves running the stupid fu*ks off the road but is generally frowned upon by law enforcment officials even though it way be the prefered option!).
Now, imagine there is a car coming up behind you and the overtaking lane hogger.
Now being the driver of this car - what do you do? If the person "in the middle" has taken option 1 to tuck in behind the moron in the overtaking lane - does this then represent a que of slow moving traffic you can legally undertake? If not, then how many cars are needed to form a que?
If the person in the middle has however gone for option 2 and is now sitting in the driving lane , say a cars length back from the moron in the overtaking lane - now what do you do?
Do you drive up behind the moron who won't pull into the driving lane, thus creating a "que" of traffic allowing the car in the driving lane (first car to come on this moron) to then overtake legally, leaving you stuck behind the moron or do you pull in behind the car in the driving lane and also reduce your speed, thus adding further to the bottleneck caused by the moron driver?
I think the one thing that comes from this is that, the driver in the overtaking lane when the driving lane is clear is in the wrong and is creating a potentially dangerous situation for every car that comes upon them.
I think, even though it is not legal, the safest course of action if you come across a driver who will not move over into the driving lane when it is free and safe to do so, is - once you are as sure as you can be they won't move in for you and have a fair chance of knowing you are there, is to undertake them and be on your way - hoping that the next car that comes upon them is a Garda who will do something about the moron driver.
I also think that there should be signs up on every dual and motorway (even two plus one stretches) of roadway indicating that the right hand lane is for overtaking only and any sign that has a reference to "fast lane" should be cast down and burnt from memory!

hargo

irish1 wrote:

TBH el tel I have no problem pissing off people who want to break the speed limits, also tbh most of the time I do move in and the let cars past once I have overtaken the cars that are moving slowly in the left hand lane, but its bugs me when people start flashing me while I'm overtaking them because they feel the need to drive above the speed limit.

The problem here is when does overtaking start. Some motorists will move to overtake half a mile away from the car in front. Some motorists move to the overtaking lane as the approach an interchange in order to pass an non existent car.
My point irish is perhaps you move out to overtake too early. Why don,t you move in ALL the time when you have finished passing? I think it is bad manners to piss other motorists off. I personally have never had another motorist flash at me in this situation because when i do move to the right it is to pass and I move back. No problem, no irate motorists, no bad language.
The system is simple really drive on the left and pass on the right

LFCFan

When work was going on on the entrance to the M7 a couple of years ago, there were signs up telling motorists that the 'Fast Lane' was closed to traffic. When you've got this type of stupidity, it's no wonder Irish drivers are as bad as they are.

Lex Luthor

RobAMerc wrote:

Almost at the end of a 400km journey most of it in foul weather, on the N7 motorway just south of Naas, I came up behind the usual idiot sat in the overtaking lane at 100kph with nothing in left lane. I flashed them and their first reaction was to jump on the brakes.

How stupid and dangerous can you be !!

I pulled up inside her and stood on the horn letting her know she was a stupid cnut. Before moving on. A couple of miles later she came up along side me and started mouthing off at me at the lights and gave me the fingers.

So this is a warning to you twats that think the outside lane is for sleeping and you should break test anyone who tries to pass, I for one am going to start taking numbers, reporting you and following this through because someone will die because of this stupidity. :mad:

Rant over, but this has substance !

I reported a twat to the Traffic Watch number yesterday for jumping me on the LHS turning right a a T-junction.

Villain

hargo wrote:

The problem here is when does overtaking start. Some motorists will move to overtake half a mile away from the car in front. Some motorists move to the overtaking lane as the approach an interchange in order to pass an non existent car.
My point irish is perhaps you move out to overtake too early. Why don,t you move in ALL the time when you have finished passing? I think it is bad manners to piss other motorists off. I personally have never had another motorist flash at me in this situation because when i do move to the right it is to pass and I move back. No problem, no irate motorists, no bad language.
The system is simple really drive on the left and pass on the right

Nope I only move out when I am close to the vechicle I wish to overtake and I only move back in when I have completed my overtaking not when some idiot decides I'm overtaking the cars too slowly at 120kmph!

I really do find it amazing the way people on this board discard the road laws, its now wonder so many people die on our roads!:mad:

drdre

RobAMerc wrote:

Almost at the end of a 400km journey most of it in foul weather, on the N7 motorway just south of Naas, I came up behind the usual idiot sat in the overtaking lane at 100kph with nothing in left lane. I flashed them and their first reaction was to jump on the brakes.

How stupid and dangerous can you be !!

I pulled up inside her and stood on the horn letting her know she was a stupid cnut. Before moving on. A couple of miles later she came up along side me and started mouthing off at me at the lights and gave me the fingers.

So this is a warning to you twats that think the outside lane is for sleeping and you should break test anyone who tries to pass, I for one am going to start taking numbers, reporting you and following this through because someone will die because of this stupidity. :mad:

Rant over, but this has substance !

you were right as i hate when people go so slow in the overtaking lane.thats there fault they donot know the rules of the road.

cargrouch

Summing up so far:
If someone is dozing in the overtaking lane then opinion seems to be weighted in favour of:
1) Flashing them.
2) Driving closer than normal for given road conditions.
3) Undertaking while beeping and glaring.

These responses are understandable when someone is really in a lane they shouldn't be in, and I have done all of them except driving too close.

Now, my question is:
If I am happy to travel at the limit, but the left lane is travelling 15-20kph less than that, but is sufficiently full of cars that if I decide to pull out and continue at the limit then I won't be able to pull back in for several hundred metres. Should I
a) Not bother
b) Reach the limit, maintain it, ignore the flashing, swearing, beeping, and gesticulating of the beemer driver that has caught up with me over the few hundred metres because he was doing 20 over the limit, and pull in when safe.
c)Reach the limit, maintain it, push into someone else's braking space to appease said driver, although I was obeying the letter and spirit of the law.
d)Reach the limit, maintain it, exceed it to appease said driver, although I was obeying the letter and spirit of the law. Pull over to left lane when safe to do so without forcing my way in.

Assumption1: all the slow moving cars are travelling either at a correct braking distance from each other, or - far more likely, about 2 car lengths away from each other.
Assumption2: I did check my mirror and it was ok to overtake. I did see a car well back in my rear view, the beemer driver has since overtaken that car at speed and is now scraping my back bumper.
Assumption3: Good weather etc. Inside lane not travelling slowly for any particular reason or hazard.

Seth Brundle

daymobrew wrote:

In a non-motorway/dual-carriageway situation can you suggest action for when I am being tailgated in a manner when I feel in danger?

You could try one of the following:-
* apply your washer jets - the spray will land on their car
* flash your hazards
* slow down (general opinion is that you shouldn't apply the brakes suddenly but I would be a liar if I said that I never did it)
* speed up and leave them behind
* pull over and let them pass

Villain

Cargrouch, I reckon: B

prospect

b) Reach the limit, maintain it, ignore the flashing, swearing, beeping, and gesticulating of the beemer driver that has caught up with me over the few hundred metres because he was doing 20 over the limit, and pull in when safe.

ambro25

a) not bother

however, if you're feeling particularly mischievous that day, and want to drive the message home but with less 'lethal' potential, then e) clutch out and coast for a while

drdre

i would think

b) Reach the limit, maintain it, ignore the flashing, swearing, beeping, and gesticulating of the beemer driver that has caught up with me over the few hundred metres because he was doing 20 over the limit, and pull in when safe.

HelterSkelter

irish1 wrote:

You what bugs me even more, I do be in the overtaking lane overtaking traffic doing the legal 120kph and I get these guys behind me flashing lights and beeping horns to get out of the way. So I stay in front of them doing 120 and then usually try to undertake you. Speed limits are there for a f**king reason. I drive a 2.5l Subaru Legacy and I can manage to stay to the limits why the hell do people feel the need to go as fast as possible on the motorway???

Rant Over.

You are not a speed limit enforcer, that's the job of the guards. If someone behind you wants to overtake you pull over and let them past. How do you know they are not in an emergency situation? Maybe it is somebody driving their pregnant wife to the hospital, or someone in the car is seriously injured and being driven to the hospital???

It's people like you who should be put off the road.

cargrouch

Very good folks, was just stirring really, wanted to see would anyone out themselves as the kinda person who would just barge people off the road!

On the subject of brake testing/coasting, I have on occasion taken a lift from a friend/kamikaze pilot who swore by dropping at least one gear just to test the sphincter control of people too close behind him! ( Now that is some crazy trick to be pulling...

Villain

HelterSkelter wrote:

You are not a speed limit enforcer, that's the job of the guards. If someone behind you wants to overtake you pull over and let them past. How do you know they are not in an emergency situation? Maybe it is somebody driving their pregnant wife to the hospital, or someone in the car is seriously injured and being driven to the hospital???

It's people like you who should be put off the road.

ROFL have you ever heard of a rear view mirror!!!! Yea thats the thing in the car that allows you to see the car behind, now if any of the cases above were happening I would be able to see it in such a mirror. But for some reason I get the idea you probably don't use your mirror's.

"Its people like you who should be put off the road", will you ever grow up :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter

irish1 wrote:

ROFL have you ever heard of a rear view mirror!!!! Yea thats the thing in the car that allows you to see the car behind, now if any of the cases above were happening I would be able to see it in such a mirror.

Really? So I am behind you with a friend of mine, who is pregnant and about to give birth, lying down in the back seat. How can you possibly tell this by looking through your magical mirrors?

impr0v

LFCFan wrote:

When work was going on on the entrance to the M7 a couple of years ago, there were signs up telling motorists that the 'Fast Lane' was closed to traffic. When you've got this type of stupidity, it's no wonder Irish drivers are as bad as they are.

Off topic, but often this message is displayed on variable message signage, or VMS, which are the solar powered orange digital signs on which one can change the message displayed. To say 'Fast Lane' when using these makes more sense because it's a lot shorter than 'Overtaking Lane' and can therefore be written in a much larger font, enabling drivers to see it from further back and take in the message instantly. This also applies to a degree on the more conventional written signage.

'Right Lane' is an alternative but since the term 'Fast Lane' is part of the vernacular, except in places where two or more motors pedants gather and attempt to out-holier than thou each other, it's my opinion that the use of the phrase on signage such as that you describe is an example of practicality rather than stupidity.

Villain

Seriously have you ever looked in a rear view mirror????

Also if the birth is that far gone your better off staying where you are and waiting on help to arrive rather than put your life, your friends life and everyone else on the road at risk by driving at high speeds

HelterSkelter

irish1 wrote:

Seriously have you ever looked in a rear view mirror????

Yes, I use my mirrors all the time. There is no way you could tell if someone is lying down in the back seat.

irish1 wrote:

Also if the birth is that far gone your better off staying where you are and waiting on help to arrive rather than put your life, your friends life and everyone else on the road at risk by driving at high speeds

That is not the point. The point here is your selfish inconsiderate driving.

Villain

HelterSkelter wrote:

Yes, I use my mirrors all the time. There is no way you could tell if someone is lying down in the back seat.


That is not the point. The point here is your selfish inconsiderate driving.

I just edited my post above, oh and I advise you get a new mirror because I can see most cars back seat in mine. But hey I guess when you have finished using this excuse you'll find another reason to speed, right?

impr0v

HelterSkelter wrote:

Really? So I am behind you with a friend of mine, who is pregnant and about to give birth, lying down in the back seat. How can you possibly tell this by looking through your magical mirrors?

Yeah. And if he's a highly trained Irish counter-terrorist operative on the way to save the oireachtas from a ninja attack in a commandeered vehicle, how will you know that through your magical mirrors? :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter

irish1 wrote:

I just edited my post above, oh and I advise you get a new mirror because I can see most cars back seat in mine. But hey I guess when you have finished using this excuse you'll find another reason to speed, right?

You're a liar as well as a selfish inconsiderate driver. Do us all a favour and give your licence back.

Villain

HelterSkelter wrote:

That is not the point. The point here is your selfish inconsiderate driving.

It is the point do, there is NO excuse for speeding unless you are a Garda driving a Garda Vehicle, a ambulance driver driving an ambulance or a fire fighter driving a fire truck.

By the way I am not lying I can see the back seat through the gap in the front seats easily, but as I said there is no excuse for going over 120kmph unless you are one of the above, so grow up and stop trying to excuse dangerous driving that is killing people every week on our road.

HelterSkelter

irish1 wrote:

It is the point do, there is NO excuse for speeding unless you are a Garda driving a Garda Vehicle, a ambulance driver driving an ambulance or a fire fighter driving a fire truck.

By the way I am not lying I can see the back seat through the gap in the front seats easily, but as I said there is no excuse for going over 120kmph unless you are one of the above, so grow up and stop trying to excuse dangerous driving that is killing people every week on our road.

First of all I am not trying to excuse speeding. I am pointing out that your behaviour is dangerous, inconsiderate, contributes to road rage and can cause accidents. You are not a speed law enforcer.

When I'm overtaking on a motorway at 120kmph and someone comes up behind me and wants to overtake I pull over and let them past. I think if you ask any Guard or anyone who knows anything about driving they will tell you this is the safest and correct thing to do. You would do it if you are as concerned about road safety as you make out you are.

As regards being able to see into the back seat of every car I don't believe you. But if you could see somebody in the back of the car (can you also tell if they are in distress or pain through you magic mirrors???) would you pull over and let the car overtake? Do you only stay in the overtaking lane for cars with one occupient?