What school of Buddism are you

Asiaprod

I am curious to know and learn of the different sects of Buddhism represented here on the forum.

I will start the ball rolling.

For the last 21 years I have been a practitioner of the Nichiren Shoshu School of Buddhism. It is a descended from Mahayana Buddhism that moved westward out of India to China where it was redefined under the Tiantai (Lotus Sutra) school of Buddhism. It then moved on down through Asia to Korea before finally taking root in Japan in the ancient capital of Nara. Again in the 13th century it was redefined by a Buddhist Monk by the name of Nichiren into its current form. It mainly differs from other schools of Buddhism in that it teaches that their is a form of enlightenment that can be attained in ones current life. This however should not be confused with that final enlightenment. That is, when we shake of all past accumulated Karma to become new born.

Haven't decided on one yet. Might be inclined towards zen or mahayana.
If it's true theravadans aren't too inclined towards the bodhisattava vows then I possibly won't be going for that.
Tibetan's ok, but it seems to have some trouble with women...

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

If it's true theravadans aren't too inclined towards the bodhisattava vows then I possibly won't be going for that.quote]

Very cool that you mentioned these vows, these to me are of prime importance. For myself, they almost appear to be my roadmap to life. I commited my life to these vows only last summer on a bright summer morning up in the Japanese mountains. It was a turning point in my life to be sure.

Only after 20 years? Why so long?
Can I ask how old you started practising buddhism at?

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Only after 20 years? Why so long?
Can I ask how old you started practising buddhism at?

Its 5pm and I am running for the door to get home for food, I am starving.
I will answer this as soon as I get home

The magic formula is by the way is 32 + 21 = 53:eek:

Asiaprod

Asiaprod wrote:

Its 5pm and I am running for the door to get home for food, I am starving.
I will answer this as soon as I get home

The magic formula is by the way is 32 + 21 = 53:eek:

You've been practising about as long as I've been alive >.<

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

You've been practising about as long as I've been alive >.<

I am definitly going to put you over my knee when I get home.:eek:

Ha, anyway back to your original question.
Why did I wait so long

Actually its very simple.
I went on a Buddhist retreat up in the mountains (just setting the right ambience here) and heard a great lecture on the role of the bodhisattava. How all the Buddhists of now, which we call the latter day of the law, were all thought to be people who had actually achieved enlightenment in a previous life, but had decided to return and be reborn as bodhisattava to help others. I woke early the next morning and went for a walk as dawn was breaking and I was overwhelmed by how peaceful, tranquil and beautiful a world we really live in. For some reason the vows of the bodhisattava really made sense to me, they were really a map to a happy and productive life:

The Vow of Participation..........I am alive and a part of this world
The Vow of Practice............... .Well for me faith in myself, practice of this Buddhism and study
The Vow of Joy..................... .Look around at the world in which I live
The Vow of Action................. .I am letting no one **** this place up for their own greedy goals, and will make everyone aware of how lucky we really are to be alive in this day and age

I really understood for the first time in my life that a life without a purpose was in fact no life, it was a wasted life.
I saw that the desires that I thought were important, that I believed I needed, were in fact a hindrance and I only had to open my eyes and look around to see how lucky I was to live in such a beautiful world. All I needed to really do was live in harmony with the world and the people in it. Interaction with people, from a view point of respect, was paramount.

Gee, I guess having written this it was not so simple after all. It is really hard to put into words all the feelings and emotions I went through. I think the most important thing I understood was to have complete trust that if I lived according to the rules (Natural Law) I would always be ok. I would still suffer, hey, thats life. But I would always get through. And I have. I am no millionaire. I have to work for a living like everyone else. I have to worry about my kid (an 11 year old girl who is just discovering boys and cosmetics....oh the grey hairs). But you know, I really am happy.
End of story...for now.

Asiaprod

Asiaprod wrote:

I am definitly going to put you over my knee when I get home.:eek:

That won't make it less true XP

Ha, anyway back to your original question.
Why did I wait so long

Actually its very simple.
I went on a Buddhist retreat up in the mountains (just setting the right ambience here) and heard a great lecture on the role of the bodhisattava. How all the Buddhists of now, which we call the latter day of the law, were all thought to be people who had actually achieved enlightenment in a previous life, but had decided to return and be reborn as bodhisattava to help others. I woke early the next morning and went for a walk as dawn was breaking and I was overwhelmed by how peaceful, tranquil and beautiful a world we really live in. For some reason the vows of the bodhisattava really made sense to me, they were really a map to a happy and productive life:

The Vow of Participation..........I am alive and a part of this world
The Vow of Practice............... .Well for me faith in myself, practice of this Buddhism and study
The Vow of Joy..................... .Look around at the world in which I live
The Vow of Action................. .I am letting no one **** this place up for their own greedy goals, and will make everyone aware of how lucky we really are to be alive in this day and age

I really understood for the first time in my life that a life without a purpose was in fact no life, it was a wasted life.
I saw that the desires that I thought were important, that I believed I needed, were in fact a hindrance and I only had to open my eyes and look around to see how lucky I was to live in such a beautiful world. All I needed to really do was live in harmony with the world and the people in it. Interaction with people, from a view point of respect, was paramount.

Gee, I guess having written this it was not so simple after all. It is really hard to put into words all the feelings and emotions I went through. I think the most important thing I understood was to have complete trust that if I lived according to the rules (Natural Law) I would always be ok. I would still suffer, hey, thats life. But I would always get through. And I have. I am no millionaire. I have to work for a living like everyone else. I have to worry about my kid (an 11 year old girl who is just discovering boys and cosmetics....oh the grey hairs). But you know, I really am happy.
End of story...for now.

Did you not hear about bodhisattva vows before? Or you just didn't think of them?
The reason I originally looked into buddhism when I was 16 was for personal reasons only, much as I care for the world around me. But I've kind of gradually realised I like and want and need to help. I've no idea HOW, but I figure that's a start.
I don't know the details about the vow at ALL except the general intention of wanting to help and not running away once enlightened

Hehe, good luck with your kid =D

Asiaprod

Did you not hear about bodhisattva vows before? Or you just didn't think of them?

No, I had not really paid any attention to them as I was wrapped up with my own problems.

The reason I originally looked into buddhism when I was 16 was for personal reasons only, much as I care for the world around me. But I've kind of gradually realised I like and want and need to help.

Join the gang, same for me. I guess age brings a sense of awarness.

I've no idea HOW, but I figure that's a start.

I think the fact that you declare to the world you are a Buddhist is a great start.
The fact that you ask questions is an even better start

I don't know the details about the vow at ALL except the general intention of wanting to help and not running away once enlightened

Thats all you NEED to know, its called awakening. You are doing fine and the way will automatically open. I have read all the debating you have been doing on the other forums and I think you are well on the road to achieving your goals. Debate and question, and the conviction that you are doing the right things, are all that are required. The vows are actually called the Four Universal Vows. Here is a refresher for both of us:

the four universal vows describe those made by all practitioners, all bodhisattvas, upon embarking on Buddhist practice. They are the vows (1) to save innumerable living beings, (2) to eradicate countless earthly desires, (3) to master immeasurable Buddhist teachings and (4) to attain supreme enlightenment.
The first vow is a pledge to save people from suffering, without favoring or discriminating among them in any way. The second is to overcome the negative influences of desire, suffering and illusion, or "earthly desires." The third is to study and gain a thorough understanding of the teachings and principles of Buddhism. The fourth is to arrive at and demonstrate in one's actions the highest form of awakening - Buddhahood.
If we were to categorize the four, the first, the vow to save living beings, constitutes "practice for others"; the second and third aim at self-improvement and represent "practice for oneself"; and the forth is the ultimate purpose of Buddhist practice.

zag

It's great to see a full blown thread devoted to 'the middle way'.

It's really motivating for me to hear a person who has a job/kids/mortgage being so devoted to improving his life and the lives of others.

I think we all have become so materialistic(including myself). I really does impair our ability to be happy, and distracts us from what is important.

I have a bit of a problem with this, perhaps you could offer some advice. I have an ok income, not in debt(yet) have a lovely girlfriend and two beautiful dogs(goldies).

I find myself torn between two minds. One mind craves nice cars, food, sex the usual earthly pleasures. The other wants to be free, open and wise. At the moment we are buying a house, and it's really going to strech our money to the limit. We spend our weekends in showrooms for kitchens, tiles, curtains, whatever. Saying things like "I really can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen".

Later, I find myself thinking, "What difference does it make if it's cherry, or oak or plastic??". But I do care about it, that's the funny thing.

The problem is that, my girlfriend wants 'things' as much if not more than I do, so that is driving my mind/finances/life in a materialistic direction.

What should I do?

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

It's great to see a full blown thread devoted to 'the middle way'.

Hi zag ,nice to see you back. unfortunatly it is 12 at night and I have to be up at 5:30 for work. Please check back in tomorrow and I will have something posted that should help. I agree, I can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen either.:) Tilling and a persian carpet could. I am also an interior designer by the way;)

By the way, sex is cool, and with dogs you will benefit from the tilling

zag

Asiaprod wrote:

I am also an interior designer by the way;)

I better not tell the girlfriend:p

zag

Asiaprod wrote:

Hi zag ,nice to see you back. unfortunatly it is 12 at night and I have to be up at 5:30 for work. Please check back in tomorrow and I will have something posted that should help. I agree, I can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen either.:) Tilling and a persian carpet could. I am also an interior designer by the way;)

By the way, sex is cool, and with dogs you will benefit from the tilling

I will check back in tommorrow. Thank You.

Sleep well

zag

You may tell the lion by the claws

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

You may tell the lion by the claws

You may indeed, but you can also tell the wife by how sharp the lion's claws are not. Good night:)

zag

zag wrote:

I have a bit of a problem with this, perhaps you could offer some advice. I have an ok income, not in debt(yet) have a lovely girlfriend and two beautiful dogs(goldies).

I find myself torn between two minds. One mind craves nice cars, food, sex the usual earthly pleasures. The other wants to be free, open and wise. At the moment we are buying a house, and it's really going to strech our money to the limit. We spend our weekends in showrooms for kitchens, tiles, curtains, whatever. Saying things like "I really can't see Cherry floors working with an oak kitchen".

Later, I find myself thinking, "What difference does it make if it's cherry, or oak or plastic??". But I do care about it, that's the funny thing.

The problem is that, my girlfriend wants 'things' as much if not more than I do, so that is driving my mind/finances/life in a materialistic direction.

What should I do?

First off, I think you should be careful not to fall into a trap of "what does anything really matter anymore" as a sort of depressing way of looking at things. When it comes to stuff like this, it really is a middle ground you might want to look for.
I think the problem people have with materialistic things is not having them, but thinking that they are the source of all your happiness and thinking that if you don't have them anymore you will be miserable.
It doesn't mean (unless you really want to ) that you should live in a plain hut with barely enough to eat. It also doesn't mean you should go buy everything you can just for the sake of having things.
I think the important thing is just realising that these things are very nice to have to look at or to be comforted by, but that they're not everything and that they're not the source of your happiness. That you can adjust your attitude to being content with what you have, rather than constantly buying and buying once you get sick of things, and feeding a material greed.

Obviously if you're just buying a house now, everything is caught up in it and it seems like that it's all you're doing these days, yes? But it'll stop being your focus when you settle in, I think, and then you can get back to normal. It has to last you a long time, so of course you have to pick well now, or you'll be coming home for a long time staring at the floors thinking "why did I ever pick cherry!!"
Some people can't do a middle ground, and try total avoidance - going off to live in the middle of nowhere for a while. For the norm, I think just keeping things in mind and maybe once in a while going on a retreat to recall you back to what's really important is how it should work.

Only my opinion of course, I don't own a house

p.s. don't pick cherry floors!! :eek:

Asia- thank you

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Asia- thank you

Always welcome, eh did I do something good?

Asiaprod

Asiaprod wrote:

Always welcome, eh did I do something good?

You're all "I've been reading your posts and you're great" and that's nice
slightly reworded quote

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

I have a bit of a problem with this, perhaps you could offer some advice

Excelsior over on Christianity would kill for on opening line like that:)

<Slips on his typing gloves and cracks a few knuckles>

Damn, beaten to the punch by a Dame. Brilliant Bluewolf, could not have said it better myself. I think your comment "I think just keeping things in mind and maybe once in a while going on a retreat to recall you back to what's really important is how it should work."is very wise. It is so important to make sure to make time for ourselves. Meditation or reflection is key in Buddhism. The world moves at such a fast pace and so much is happening that it is nearly impossible to keep track. We need this time. The whole point in Buddhism, apart form all the lovely ideals of helping others, is that we are ultimately responsible for our own advancement. That must always be foremost in our mind.　This is not selfishness, it is a reason for our being. Our task is to get ourselves from A to B. Find time to reflect, you will only drive yourself crazy if you don't.

"I find myself torn between two minds. One mind craves nice cars, food, sex the usual earthly pleasures. The other wants to be free, open and wise."
There you go then, welcome to our world. This applies to just about every one, including me. This concept of denial in Buddhism is misplaced so often. The Buddha started his life as a very wealthy young man. He never left his palace. He had everything. If he went out riding, his father had the palace guards clean all the riff raff out of his path. He never saw his people as they really were, he had no concept of suffering, poverty, hunger or pain. It was only when he sneaked out that he came across these things and then decided to follow his new chosen life. He became aware of how material possessions and earthly desire had blinded HIM to the sufferings of others. How being privileged had insulated HIM from this suffering going on all around him. It was not that wealth or power or possessions were intrinsically bad and were to be avoided, it was that these thing if not handled correctly were bad and to be avoided. Can you see the difference? In Buddhism there is no good or bad, it is we who make a thing good or bad. Like they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Nowhere does it say in any writing that we cannot have possessions, that we cannot have money, that we cannot have power. that we can not even have Cherry Floors (sorry could not resist that one). What it DOES say is that if we are fortunate enough to have these things we really need to be aware of the dangers they could pose. Handle them correctly, and there is no problem and no conflict.

It also does not say we have to live in a cave. The wonderful thing for me about Buddhism is that it is never stagnant, always progressive. The original writing were written down 2,500 years ago and were geared to a more monastic life style. Even the Buddha left his wife and kids. The world was a very different place then. We now live in 2006, people in Ireland do not live in caves any more. You are one of the lucky ones. You obviously have a wonderful girl friend, you are building a life together. Your girl friend is first and foremost a home builder. The home is where she will control her little slice of life, caring for you and raising a family + dogs. I don't think she is being materialistic, I think that she is doing her job, and doing it well. She is making a comfortable home for you both. This is a good use of money.
Relax, enjoy the trip, select wisely and find that time for yourself to meditate, chant or reflect. Are you building a special place in the house where you can do these things, if not, let her get on with the house, and you design your special space. By the way, what is your girlfriends stance on you and your Buddhism?

I will leave you with a saying I really like by the Chinese Buddhist Monk T'ien-tai

"A person of wisdom is not one who practices Buddhism apart from worldly affairs but, rather, one who thoroughly understands the principles by which the world is governed."

zag

Good morning! I need to take some time to reflect on what you both said, let it sink in some.

maitri

Asiaprod wrote:

For the last 21 years I have been a practitioner of the Nichiren Shoshu School of Buddhism. It is a descended from Mahayana Buddhism that moved westward out of India to China where it was redefined under the Tiantai (Lotus Sutra) school of Buddhism. (...) It mainly differs from other schools of Buddhism in that it teaches that their is a form of enlightenment that can be attained in ones current life. This however should not be confused with that final enlightenment. That is, when we shake of all past accumulated Karma to become new born.

I wonder, could this maybe be more or less the same as the Tibetan «vajrayana»-school? Other names:
«Tantrayana»,«mantrayana», «The Diamond Way», «The Fast Way».

From Wikipedia:

"Vajrayana techniques are said to make full enlightenment or Buddhahood possible in a much shorter timeframe, perhaps in a single lifetime. Vajrayana Buddhists do not claim that Theravada or Mahayana practices are in any way invalid, only that they represent slower paths. It should also be noted that the goal of the Mahayana and Vajrayana is the attainment of Buddhahood, whereas the goal for Theravada practice is liberation from the cycle of rebirth (samsara) by achieving Nirvana."

From a Norwegian source: "The Varjayana builds on, and presupposes, the Mahayana attitude". This source also says that to follow this practice, one have to be "well established" on the Bodhisattva Path and have a strong inclination towards good deeds and have a high degree of spiritual maturity.

I don't know much about these things, I just wonder if it could be the same thing? Or something very similar.

Maitri

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I don't know much about these things, I just wonder if it could be the same thing? Or something very similar.Maitri

Great question because it is forcing me to restudy the roots. Will get back to you after the weekend on this.

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I wonder, could this maybe be more or less the same as the Tibetan «vajrayana»-school? Other names: «Tantrayana»,«mantrayana», «The Diamond Way», «The Fast Way»

The problem with Buddhism is that it split into many schools, each of which borrow from the other, one will find any of the 3 major schools reflected in the other two.
The issue with being a Buddhist from my perspective, as so too are all answers my opinions, is not which school may historically be correct, because they have all been influenced over the last 2,500 years by who ever acted as the chief reprresentative for that school, but by which school feels correct and whos teaching can be applied to today (2006). Buddhism cannot remain stationary, but must also progress over the years. As mankind gets smarter, Buddhism has to become more exact in what it teaches and must have teachings that relate more closely to the current age.

The Buddha expounded this Buddhism to enable all to achieve enlightenment. He stated quite clearly that we are all equal and we all hold the same potential for enlightenment. However, the monastic schools originally expounded that only the monks and priests could attain nirvana and the function of the laity was to look after the same monks and priests and in return they would be granted a higher place in their rebirth. This may have changed, I honestly do not know enough of the history of Tibetan Buddhism.

A prime example of a flavor of Buddhism steeped in the monastic school would be Tibetan and the man I very much admire, the Dalai Lama. Here is a wonderful man with a great message, but he does not come from a western upbringing. What he says is very much influenced by his upbringing and culture in Tibet. We cannot lead the type of life he lead in Tibet in our own countries. We have jobs and families, and a completely different social structure. His moral values are of great relevance, and he gives some great advice. But we must remember that he is a God in his own country. He was raised from childhood as a God. Not one of his own people ever dared to contradict him. His own people believe he can as a God cure them. He is 100% against Oral and Anal sex, Homosexuals and lesbians, just to mention a few issues. These issues are different for us in this age and in our own respective countries. The Buddha stated that his teachings are for all mankind, not just Indians or Tibetans.

The branch I follow is directly related from Mahayana. It was refined by the Tientai school in China who set about condensing down all the thousands of writing attributed to the Original Buddha. They realized it just was not possible for him to have written down all those texts in his life time. This more condensed form spread on down through Asia and crossed into Japan where it got further refined down into application for daily life by the Monk Nichiren (School of Nichiren Buddhism) which holds that we all have the potential to achieve enlightenment (or Buddhahood, the same state as the enlightened Buddha) in our current life time.

So for me it goes from <Original Teachings> into <Mahayana> into <Tientai school> into <Nichiren school>.

Maitri wrote:

From a Norwegian source: "The Varjayana builds on, and presupposes, the Mahayana attitude". This source also says that to follow this practice, one have to be "well established" on the Bodhisattva Path and have a strong inclination towards good deeds and have a high degree of spiritual maturity.

Oooh, could that be me. It would be great if it was. I will claim that I am on the Bodhisattva Path and I have a strong inclination towards good deeds, but I will have to let others decide on if I have a higher degree of spiritual maturity. After all, it was the Buddha that said we may think that we can see all that is in the world, yet we cant see our eyebrows that are right in front of us

I have listed a couple of things that we do have in common with the Tibetan School, my equivalent is in italics. Hope this helps

1. Repetition of special ritual phrases (mantras)........, Chanting and reciting the Lotus Sutra, praying for peace and the wellfare of all others
2. Use of various techniques, including breath control and the use of special hand positions.........meditation or reflection
3. Use of an extensive vocabulary of visual aids, .........we employ a Gohonzon which is said to represent the perfect life condition
4. Importance of a guru-disciple relationship.....we call it master disciple relationship, our objective is to turn it the other way around. A master is said to have been effective when the disciple turns around and teaches the master.
5. Achieving enlightenment in our current live.........we agree.:)

zag

Asia, is it enough for me to practice mindfulness 20 minutes per day? I always feel like I am on the starting block, and would like to progress further.
BlueWolf, Asia, I thought about what you both said to me about possessions. I had a discussion with my sister about it. I realise that imposing suffering on myself, because I want certain things for my home, is an extremist attitude and is not constructive. I also realise what you said, Asia, about my gf being a home-maker, and this is her area of influence on the family circle(and dogs!). My attitude has changed towards this now, thank you both.

I read a quote by the Dalai Lama,
"You cannot help people who are confused and suffering, if you are confused and suffering yourself".

I have seen this in life, yet I do not want this to become an excuse for my own selfishness!

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

Asia, is it enough for me to practice mindfulness 20 minutes per day? I always feel like I am on the starting block, and would like to progress further.

Anything you do is ok, the important thing to do is pick the amount of time and then do it without fail. Start small and build it. I struggle with an hour, my wife can cruise through 3 hours no problem.The kid on the othr hand is 60 seconds then out.

BlueWolf, Asia, I thought about what you both said to me about possessions. I had a discussion with my sister about it. I realise that imposing suffering on myself, because I want certain things for my home, is an extremist attitude and is not constructive. I also realise what you said, Asia, about my gf being a home-maker, and this is her area of influence on the family circle(and dogs!). My attitude has changed towards this now, thank you both.

Great, this what we try to do as Buddhists, to change our attitude. That is a great start, now lets work on the Cherry floors

I read a quote by the Dalai Lama,
"You cannot help people who are confused and suffering, if you are confused and suffering yourself".
I have seen this in life, yet I do not want this to become an excuse for my own selfishness!

Wise words indeed

zag

I meant to ask you, where are you from?

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

I meant to ask you, where are you from?

Dublin, a northsider. Now in Japan 20 years and loving every moment of it.

zag

Amazing. When you paying a visit to the family?

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

Amazing. When you paying a visit to the family?

My current goal is to get home this year and look up all the Buddhists, Christians, Atheists and Agnostics, and undecided I have met on boards i.e.

zag

Wow, I think you are an e-bodhisattiva!

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

Wow, I think you are an e-bodhisattiva!

Thats a new one, thanks.

DublinWriter

Lapsed Mahayana.

I was going to say "I am a lapsed Mahayana", but the englightened among us know that that statement would be an oxymoron!

Asiaprod

DublinWriter wrote:

Lapsed Mahayana.

I was going to say "I am a lapsed Mahayana", but the englightened among us know that that statement would be an oxymoron!

It would indeed, would'nt it:)
Why lapsed, what turned you away

DublinWriter

Asiaprod wrote:

It would indeed, would'nt it:)
Why lapsed, what turned you away

I guess after learning that Buddhism had more schisms and in-fighting down through the years than Christianity ever had.

My problem is basically with the concept of prescriptive 'Schools of Belief'.

These days, I'm more of an à la carte Buddhist!

Asiaprod

DublinWriter wrote:

I guess after learning that Buddhism had more schisms and in-fighting down through the years than Christianity ever had.

My problem is basically with the concept of prescriptive 'Schools of Belief'.

These days, I'm more of an à la carte Buddhist!

Would it surprise you to learn that that indeed à la carte might be the way to go. Who taught the original Buddha? He did.

My problem is basically with the concept of prescriptive 'Schools of Belief'.

I have touched on this many times, humans have a propensity to destroy through pride. The heart always knows what is right. Listen to your heart. If it tells you something is wrong, it is. Buddhism is unique to each individual. You are not me and I am not you. At the end of the day, you correctly decide what is right or wrong. If that does not happen, the teacher is wrong. The whole point behind Buddhism is that only you can decide what is wright or wrong for you. It is not a religion that lays down rules and regulations. People always fight for a great number of reasons. The truth is within you, only you can let it out. Believe in yourself, have confidence in what you believe, act according to what you believe is right. Do not depend on anyone else to fix it for you. It is not as hard as it seems. Spend time with yourself and reflect. Then act on what you reveal to yourself. And alway seek ideas from others

maitri

Hi Asiaprod. Thanks for long and interesting answer!

Asiaprod wrote:

The issue with being a Buddhist (..) is not which school may historically be correct, because they have all been influenced over the last 2,500 years by who ever acted as the chief reprresentative for that school, but by which school feels correct and whos teaching can be applied to today (2006). Buddhism cannot remain stationary, but must also progress over the years. As mankind gets smarter, Buddhism has to become more exact in what it teaches and must have teachings that relate more closely to the current age.

Totally agree! And that goes for all religions and philosophies, I think.

Asiaprod wrote:

A prime example of a flavor of Buddhism steeped in the monastic school would be Tibetan and the man I very much admire, the Dalai Lama. Here is a wonderful man with a great message, but he does not come from a western upbringing. What he says is very much influenced by his upbringing and culture in Tibet. (...) He is 100% against Oral and Anal sex, Homosexuals and lesbians, just to mention a few issues. These issues are different for us in this age and in our own respective countries. .

I've read that the Dalai Lama is not such an absoluttist when it comes to such questions, after all. From an interview with Pema Chödrön, Alice Walker and Judy Bench:

"Alice Walker: You know, when he (Dalai Lama) was here at the peace conference he was confronted by gay men and lesbian women and he readily admitted that he really didn’t know. He didn’t seem rigid on it.

But also, when there is wisdom about, we should have it! Wisdom belongs to the people. We must never be kept from wisdom by anybody telling us you can’t have it because you’re this that or the other."

This is very similiar to what you wrote, isn't it?: "The Buddha stated that his teachings are for all mankind, not just Indians or Tibetans."

The quote from the interview is, by the way, from this very interesting article

I think that people like Pema Chödrön (and the Dalai Lama) are trying to share old wisdom from the tibetan tradition in a way that is helpful also to modern people in the West.
Some of the teachings of Pema that I've found very helpful in my own life are the thoughts of accepting yourself as you are right now without trying to run away:

yetangche
(Somebody has had problems with the tabulator here. I've figured out "í" to mean: ' and "ó" to mean: -)

Asiaprod wrote:

The branch I follow is directly related from Mahayana. It was refined by the Tientai school in China who set about condensing down all the thousands of writing attributed to the Original Buddha. They realized it just was not possible for him to have written down all those texts in his life time. This more condensed form spread on down through Asia and crossed into Japan where it got further refined down into application for daily life by the Monk Nichiren (School of Nichiren Buddhism) which holds that we all have the potential to achieve enlightenment (or Buddhahood, the same state as the enlightened Buddha) in our current life time..

I have never heard about your school before. Do you have some more information? Maybe a link or two? Don't think we have that branch here in Norway...

Asiaprod wrote:

A master is said to have been effective when the disciple turns around [/I]and teaches the master.

I have a teacher in philosophy that I think go by that principle. Very nice indeed!

Hi Zag!

You wrote:
"I read a quote by the Dalai Lama,
"You cannot help people who are confused and suffering, if you are confused and suffering yourself".
I have seen this in life, yet I do not want this to become an excuse for my own selfishness! "

Actually I think there just might be a small thing or two that we can do for eachother, even though we are just "confused fellow sufferers" I am not very learned in this, so it is just my very personal conviction.
Reminds me of a text by Leonard Cohen:
"There is a crack in everything - that is where the light gets in." I don't think we have to be "perfect" to do things. (At least, that is what I hope...;) )

Maitri

maitri

Sorry, don't know what happened. Seems I got what I wrote twice...

zag

maitri wrote:

Actually I think there just might be a small thing or two that we can do for eachother, even though we are just "confused fellow sufferers" I am not very learned in this, so it is just my very personal conviction.
Reminds me of a text by Leonard Cohen:
"There is a crack in everything - that is where the light gets in." I don't think we have to be "perfect" to do things. (At least, that is what I hope...;) )
Maitri

I agree, it is somewhat of a generalisation. We can of course help people when we suffer ourselves. I mean, I could be very sick, but I could still make someone laugh, or give them advice.

But, I think that statement emphasises that fact that when we are no longer suffering, we are in a much better position to help others, and more willing to 'show them the way' that leads to the cessation of suffering. I think that might make more sense!

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

e.

But, I think that statement emphasises that fact that when we are no longer suffering, we are in a much better position to help others, and more willing to 'show them the way' that leads to the cessation of suffering. I think that might make more sense!

Oooh, lesson 1. When we are suffering we are in a GREAT position to help others by showing that we are not prepared to let this suffering defeat us. The question is, are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?
Sorry.

zag

Asiaprod wrote:

Oooh, lesson 1. When we are suffering we are in a GREAT position to help others by showing that we are not prepared to let this suffering defeat us. The question is, are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?
Sorry.

No need to be sorry

Are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?

It depends.

If it is a physical task that the person needs help with, like building a wall, or carrying coal, I will always help people, regardless of my own suffering.

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first".

So, judging from that, I find it hard to give emotional support to someone, when emotionally I am suffering myself.

But, being young, and reasonably healthy, I can always help with a physical task. Am I making any sense?

maitri

zag wrote:

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first".

So, judging from that, I find it hard to give emotional support to someone, when emotionally I am suffering myself.

Maybe - sometimes - the best way to help others is to give emotional support to yourself?

Since, I suppose, after all we are all interconnected.

Maybe you can just accept that, right now, you are a wonderful person in a very very bad mood? :mad:

Like in the old buddhist saying: "Just don't do something, stay there!"

(Speaking of which: Right now I am a ....hmmm... wonderful person ...eh...very close to wanting to kill two people who are chatting very loudly in the library I am sitting in, because they are disturbing my wonderful thoughts about how to be a "good buddhist". :eek: )

But help with physical tasks is very nice, too!


Maitri

zag

zag wrote:

No need to be sorry

Are we prepared to help others while we are suffering?

It depends.

If it is a physical task that the person needs help with, like building a wall, or carrying coal, I will always help people, regardless of my own suffering.

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first".

So, judging from that, I find it hard to give emotional support to someone, when emotionally I am suffering myself.

But, being young, and reasonably healthy, I can always help with a physical task. Am I making any sense?

The best way to help someone emotionally is probably when you are in a good position to do so. Otherwise you might just make things worse if you're in a bad mood. When you help yourself, you know what you did to help yourself so maybe you could help others in the same way, plus you will be better able to help. Nothing wrong with that

Speaking of which I wouldn't mind some myself, bloody first day of work and I do not like it :mad:
er.
</whine> >.>

Bodhidharma

I am not really a member of any school but i do have a tendency to lean towards Zen.

The poetry would probably be the decisive factor, it has been hugely influential.

Asiaprod

zag wrote:

But, if it is emotional help they need, in my own experience(selfish fecker that I am), I want to help others, but when I am suffering emotionally, I usually say to myself, "When I get rid of this bad mood, I will help them, but I will get out of this mood first"

This one I can also relate too. It was my way of escaping for years. I would disappear for an entire week. There is a lot of merit to be said for I cannot get involved because with me being in a bad mood, or depressed, I might just make things worse. But then we say it the next time, and the time after that, and after that. It becomes a defense mechanism and becomes our usual pattern. This pattern really needs to be reversed if you want to find happiness.
In my case, [SIZE=+0]I learned that it really is not a good idea. Unless the time was spent in say chanting or meditation on the issues in question. The nature of the human mind, however, is quite often to make things worse than they really are. Trying to find a solution in this state often leads to more and more complicated solutions which usually end up failing. We love ourselves too much and any decision we come to usually is biased in our favor. Buddhism is about breaking circles. We are trying to basically kick ourselves out of our usual pattern. That is why it is important in this scenario to make a point of at least trying to giving emotional help to others. Even if you only listen, you are taking action. I found that by thinking of, or listening to, other peoples problems, I manages to freed my mind from my own hunt for solutions, and the perfect solution I was looking for revealed itself all on its own. Another scenario is where I am talking to the person I am are trying to support and suddenly they come out with a statement or concept out of the blue which is the solution my own problem. It is a funny thing with Buddhism that the more you help others, the more help we receive back in return. Try it next time, track it on your new Blog. This really works. Of course there are times when you really cannot help the person, but in your newly-developed wisdom you can see it as one of those times when you just have to spend some time time sorting yourself out first. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]The point is try to look to change what you recognize as patters in your nature. These are the things that need to change in order for you to progress. [/SIZE]

Asiaprod

Bodhidharma wrote:

The poetry would probably be the decisive factor, it has been hugely influential.

Interesting, do tell more. I am not a poetry person myself. How do you find it influential? Do you seek answers within it? or do react to the situation in the poetry?

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Speaking of which I wouldn't mind some myself, bloody first day of work and I do not like it :mad:
er.
</whine> >.>

Aw, poor you. It will be the weekend soon;), then it all begins again.
Is this your first ever day of work or your first day of work in a new job

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

I have never heard about your school before. Do you have some more information? Maybe a link or two? Don't think we have that branch here in Norway...

Hi Maitri

Just cover a few points.
The Dalai Lama is very clear on the issue of gays and lesbians, his answer is a resounding NO way. He is a smart man and does not condem the people, he condems the actions.
The Buddha did indeed state that his teachings are for all mankind, not just Indians or Tibetans."

I also believe that people like this Pema Chödrön (and the Dalai Lama) are trying to share old wisdom from the tibetan tradition in a way that is helpful also to modern people in the West. And it is helpfull. And very relevent. My only comment here is that the wisdom needs to be refined to deal with our social and cultural issues.
Re my school, I have posted a couple of links below. Start with these and see what you think.. I am also a member of the lay organization, I dont believe all that they say, but I am proud to be a member. They do an awful lot for world peace, but like every group they have their problems to. Here is their Swedish website. I know they do have a group in Norway. Dont get hung up on the organization. Its the Buddhism and the people that count. And as I aways say, people are the one that do the screwing up.
http://www.ssgi.se/

These links deal withthe Buddhism aspect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichiren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tientai

Regards
Asia

Asiaprod

Asiaprod wrote:

Aw, poor you. It will be the weekend soon;), then it all begins again.
Is this your first ever day of work or your first day of work in a new job

It's just for the week, I'm covering as a receptionist in the international study institute. never done office work before

maitri

Asiaprod wrote:

Dont get hung up on the organization. Its the Buddhism and the people that count. And as I aways say, people are the one that do the screwing up.
[/SIZE]

Hi Asia!
Probably very good advice!

I am not really "out" as a buddhist. Sometimes I wonder if making the distinction between buddhists and non-buddhists is really helpful...
Would calling myself a buddhist not make a gap between me and my catholic mother (who still, I think, considers me catholic, whatever I say) and between me and muslim friends an family (reform muslims considerer all people of good will to be muslims, by the way )?
And can I say that I really am a buddhist?
If I am a buddhist, aren't we all, anyway?
I only know that after studying it for some years (to and from) I am starting more and more to see the world through "buddhist glasses"...
And that the buddhist thoughts seem helpful. And I am really only concerned about what is practically helpful... Not what you call it.

But I tried some weeks ago a bit cautiously to ventilate the topic "maybe I am buddhist" to some friends, who started laughing and said: "Of course you are buddhist! And you have been so for years. As a matter of fact you were really buddhist at the time when you were still Christian, too."
So..wellwell.


Regards
Maitri


PS: It was cool to find out from your links, Asia, that I have such a splendid (nick)name-brother: Maitreya. Cool! ds.

Bodhidharma

Asiaprod wrote:

Interesting, do tell more. I am not a poetry person myself. How do you find it influential? Do you seek answers within it? or do react to the situation in the poetry?

Well, i like it because it doesnt actually say anything concrete but it tells you everything. There are too many people seeking definitive answers when asking the question is more important. Zen poetry is so peaceful and at the same time difficult to explain.The poetry and sayings of Zen masters were used as a means of attaning enlightenment by freeing the mind of predefined ways of thinking, and i can really see how they can do this.

The poems also have a calming effect on me, and they are often very funny.