What is the best PR company in Ireland and why? Other q's inside!

LegacyUser

Also I want to know how hard is it to get a good job in PR. What are the recommended qualifications to have?

slumped

Depending on what line of PR you want to work in, its hard to say who the best are.

Murray Consultants have a good reputation, as do Drurys and Grayling.

As for qualifications, minimum expected these days would be a Diploma in PR (see www.prii.ie and www.irishacademy.com) although you could get a very basic job with a certificate in PR.

The MA in PR (DIT) is not really worth much unless you have work experience as you will normally just enter the work force in a junior exec position on a salary of 21-23k.

S

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

The Sweeper

Don't bother your arse going into PR in Ireland unless you know people in the media, have a father who's on the board of directors of a large company or are related to a politician.

Go abroad and get your work experience in England or the States.

slumped

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Don't bother your XXXX going into PR in Ireland unless you know people in the media, have a father who's on the board of directors of a large company or are related to a politician.

Go abroad and get your work experience in England or the States.

Not a very helpful comment. Do some research and come back again with a plausible argument.

The Sweeper

slumped wrote:

Not a very helpful comment. Do some research and come back again with a plausible argument.

How's this for plausible?

I worked for one of the biggest PR companies in Ireland for a year and a half. I've worked as a journalist in Ireland (admittedly quite some time ago now) in both the trade press and the broadsheet papers.

The PR industry in Ireland is small. You'll discover this when you organise upwards of three photoshoots and realise you use the same two models from Assets for everything you do.

Ireland's daily broadsheet media is comprised of two longstanding papers and a rural sheet with national pretentions. Most of the Sunday papers are generated at the end of massive print-runs in the UK and transported overnight in one of the biggest air-sea operations in Europe.

The only people I ever knew in the Irish PR industry who got somewhere had important daddies, important relatives, important friends or had journalist drinking-buddies in their pockets.

The Irish PR industry panders exclusively to the client's wallet. There is none of this marvellous high-level hoo-ha of "we don't pester journalists if the story doesn't count" - bollocks. Irish PR companies just make damn sure the work experience plebs and the junior account executives do the faxing and the follow-up phonecalls. Just ask any journalist in Ireland how many times a week they get some utterly rubbish "did ye get de press releeese?" phonecall from some 21 year old graduate who thought it was all about parties and pretty shoes.

Markets outside Ireland have a far more broad range of media to appeal to - you can specialise in greater depth; indeed you have to. You can't just hit every publication with a spam of press releases - you have to learn to target specific sectors because otherwise the audience is just too broad.

The only people I ever knew in Irish PR who had successful careers in spite of a lack of important daddies and important pals were sh1t hot at their jobs, and every last one of them had learned their trade in the UK, America or Australia.

Ireland's PR industry, because of its size, is all about who you know. There are arguments that may say that makes it easier for you to get ahead; after all there are fewer people to know.

For me, it's like Christmas - the same sh1te songs every year.

damien

How I'm reminded of "Watch you talkin about Willis?". Well said MaJD.

RuggieBear

My best mate did that MA course in DIT..spent about a year in Dublin either looking for work or getting unpaid "experience" work and then decided "fuck this" went to London is now earning a relative fortune in London with Ketchum.

This is my only experience of the PR indusstry in Ireland

slumped

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

How's this for plausible?

I worked for one of the biggest PR companies in Ireland for a year and a half. I've worked as a journalist in Ireland (admittedly quite some time ago now) in both the trade press and the broadsheet papers.

[edit]
etc. etc. etc.

Plausible, perhaps.

You obviously have great insider knowledge of the PR industry..........having worked in it for 18 months.

Were you the 21 year old making the phone calls to journos? Do you have pretty shoes?

Seriously though, in recent years the profession as a whole has dragged itself out of this sort of thing. The PRII has made huge strides in educating the PR industry through workshops and clinics using some of the leading PR people from Ireland and the UK.

Getting in to PR is no longer about Daddy and his wish for his daughter to have a good job because she is 'good with people'. A lot of PR companies won't hire you now unless you have a Diploma in PR or a few years experience, or both!

PR in Ireland is changing. It HAS to change and the Professionals working at the top realise that. Change is happening.

S

damien

slumped wrote:

You obviously have great insider knowledge of the PR industry..........having worked in it for 18 months.

Get out the ruler time? Bit arrogant no? Do tell us of your superior experience.

slumped

damien.m wrote:

Get out the ruler time? Bit arrogant no? Do tell us of your superior experience.

Not arrogant at all. Just think that if you are going to make huge sweeping statements about the PR industry in Ireland, you need to have more than a few months exp.

I have worked for the past 6 years in the industry, and currently work for a major organisation in the PR and Marketing area.

I am a full member of the Public Relations Institute, hold an honours diploma in PR. Have been placed in national PR excellence awards and hold an honours degree from TCD.

Also do voluntary PR.

S

The Sweeper

Who's your daddy?

(Did I ever think I'd have valid reason to use that on boards? Smashing.)

Thanks for your CV. 18 months is more than long enough for me to discover how the land lies with something - sorry if your learning curve takes that much longer. Good for you with your six years in the industry. Frankly a year and half of it was all I could take - having gone from journalism into PR I felt the pinch of no longer 'ruling the roost' as it were. Irish journalists are a bitchy bunch and some are known to slag both PR companies and PR people by name in their weekly column if they've been pissed off. No it never happened to me, but I saw a bunch of fluffy noobs reduced to tears over bullsh1t like that.

Neither was I the 21-year-old making the phonecalls, but I saw plenty of them. If the industry has changed in the last few years, then great. It bloody well needed to. If you're in it six years though, then chances are you're nicely settled and have a good number going. Can you honestly tell me you've never been beering with an Irish broadsheet journalist on one of those peculiar evenings that sits half way between a social event and a work night out?

And did you never have to start with "did you get the press release" because the client's been pushing to have some naff story released for pure column inches, but won't disclose any of the juicy details like the cost of the deal or the size of the project, and so you get to do the dog work while your Account Director wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole?

Have you ever been a journalist? Have you ever had your phone ring off the desk when you're working to a deadline with some work-experience muppet asking did you get a two-page press release of utter sh1te because X company's signed a deal with Y company, but they won't comment on how much it's worth, how many people it affects and how many offices it will be rolled out in, but they'd still like you to use the tag line "the world's leading umbrella-makers" or whatever other crap they've thought up in a brainstorming session and have that tag line precede every use of their company name?

I was never the right "fit" for PR in Dublin, and went into similar but different sub-industries when I moved to the UK - event management and marketing, eventually project management. Throughout I've always freelanced in journalism on the side, and am now going back into freelancing full time as an editor and a copywriter.

For me the worst thing about the PR industry and the media in Ireland is how small it all is. It's the same culprits every time. Bottom line, I really believe it is more about the relationships you've formed and continue to cultivate every day than it is about intelligent publicity, subtle marketing, crisis management, message definition and media relations.

(Incidentally, I had and still have lots of pretty shoes.)

Why is it you think the Irish PR industry is so lip-smackingly marvellous?

[edit: I actually do want to know - I'm interested, whatever the argumentative tone of the rest of this post may be.]

slumped

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

And did you never have to start with "did you get the press release" because the client's been pushing to have some naff story released for pure column inches, but won't disclose any of the juicy details like the cost of the deal or the size of the project, and so you get to do the dog work while your Account Director wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole?

Have you ever been a journalist? Have you ever had your phone ring off the desk when you're working to a deadline with some work-experience muppet asking did you get a two-page press release of utter sh1te because X company's signed a deal with Y company, but they won't comment on how much it's worth, how many people it affects and how many offices it will be rolled out in, but they'd still like you to use the tag line "the world's leading umbrella-makers" or whatever other crap they've thought up in a brainstorming session and have that tag line precede every use of their company name?

Why is it you think the Irish PR industry is so lip-smackingly marvellous?

I know all of my Daddys!

I was never that 21 year old ringing around - we do not do that in our line of business. Never have to. Our stuff always gets published. Put it down to good press releases delivered to the right people at the right time. I have also developed working relationships with journos. I get phone calls from them and I duly supply them with enough to fill a few few column inches. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Have I ever been a journo? YES! Currently I am the production editor for a company magazine and I do get PR people ringing me up asking me for coverage. But it happens so infrequently I don't mind. Infact the people who ring me up are genuinely nice people so I don't mind doing them a favour. I don't get 21 year olds ringing me up from Daddy's nice warm office. I deal with Account Managers and MDs of PR companies. Again, perhaps I am very lucky.

Why is the PR industry in Ireland so great/ Why I want to work in PR

It's an exciting, challenging, tough field to work in but There are days you wish you never got out of bed. Crisis PR is one of the hardest areas to manage, but I would relish the opportunity to deal with a crisis case. Dealing with the media, seeing your press releases published verbatim in the national media, having your boss ring you up and thank you for the coverage. Preparing a budget only to have it cut and then trying to get same coverage for less money.

It's the challenge.

Nobody I went to college with and nobody I deal with on a day to day basis are in this field because of Daddy. They are there because of hard work and long days and nights.

I see PR people (in event management esp) working from 6am - 12am every day for weeks on end. That's not glamerous, that's committment (or stupidity, whatever way you look at it.)

S

slumped

Gleb wrote:

PR, Promo Actions and advertisments by Russian company, it is new and they have a good opportunity - www.asiwish.net

Not useful - possible advertising - ban.

rogerd

Look, much of what has been written here is complete b*****ks. I've been in PR over 20 years, having a couple of degrees under my arm. No journalist experience, no drinking journo buddies, no daddy connected to anything or anybody, worked in three consultancies/agencies, in-house for past 7 years. And I'm earning well over 200k pa. and bloody deserving it too.

Like many in-house PR departments and consultancies, I'm searching for good experienced people right now and like everybody else am having serious hassle finding good people. What we are all looking for are honest, intelligent , hard working guys or gals who are not caught up in this status crap and just want to achieve something in their lives. Where the bloody hell are you?????

If you want to get on in PR, get honest, get hard working, get intelligent and get bloody ambitious. It's a great career and pays very well - but only if you are serious about it and stay away from all the bull****.

jilloc

hey everyone,

I'm new to both this board and the somewhat elusive world of PR! Basically I'm finishing a law degree and am pretty interested in getting into PR. Only problem is I'm finding it really difficult to find out which PR courses have any amount of credibility. I have applied for the MA in DIT, but to be honest the prospects of another year of full-time study with no income are quite sickening.

What I really want is a bit of completely honest advice from people working within the industry.

1. Am I wasting my time doing a full-time masters - if I were to do a part-time course by night while working within a marketing department by day, would this make me more employable/qualified than the MA?

2. Has anybody studied at/heard anything good or bad about the European Institute of Communications or the Irish Academy?

I'd appreciate a bit of advice from anyone who knows about any of the above.

Thanks

LegacyUser

This is turning into a truly interesting thread! I am reading everything and taking all advice on board guys. Let's keep the ball rolling....

slumped

jilloc wrote:

1. Am I wasting my time doing a full-time masters - if I were to do a part-time course by night while working within a marketing department by day, would this make me more employable/qualified than the MA?

2. Has anybody studied at/heard anything good or bad about the European Institute of Communications or the Irish Academy?

In answer to your questions:

1. Yes and no. Just because you have a MA in PR does not mean you wont start at the bottom. You may not start at the very bottom, but without experience and in house work you can only expect to land a juior exec role with a starting salary of 22k approx. With the MA you may not spend as long at this level as someone who has a diploma.

2. European Institute is only established and accredited to the PRII for a year or two. The Irish Academy www.irishacademy.com is long established and is where I studied.

S

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Ichiro

I’m currently in the MA in DIT,
I’m finding it a good course covering many of the angles needed in the business.
I will say this though some of it is long winded and you can find yourself going round in circles with the curriculum.
But I’m enjoying it and have already given myself a focused goal, and know what area I want to work in.

The hard part has been the year without income.....killer!
I’m currently looking for work experience..any feild!
So anyone reading this and could possibly help PM me,
Would really appreceiate it.

PS good thread, finding it most interesting!

ODS

cheesedude wrote:

What are the recommended qualifications to have?

Getting back to answer the question - blonde hair, silicon implants, and botox if needed

giftgrub

Been following this thread pretty interesting stuff, i work in broadcast journalism and i know for a fact that most of the calls we get are from PR people, "just ringing to check if you got our release..."

What i always notice about the people who ring, (as opposed tto those who may have written the release) is that once they hear you actually have it, they say goodbye and thats it, no follow up, no attempt to get you to use the release.

And what really gets us where i work is that they often ring at the wrong times, like when we're about to go to air, when the Mr A case exploded we were about 5 minutes away from going on when some dollybird rang asking us were we going to the launch of an ice cream survey!!

Saying that there are a lot of pro's in the industry who know what the'yre doing and if it wasnt for people like them my job would'nt be as handy!!!

I had been thinking about switching sides recently, I've 5 years experience in journalism, anyone got a job going???;)

Thomas from Presence

I'll be using the very last piece of social decorum in me to stop myself from PMing you invites for Creche openings and local community AGMs...

Stick with the journalism unless you get a really well paying PR job...!

flynnser19

im only 18 and startin college in september but i have applied for full level8 degrees in dundalk and carlow!!the degree in dundalk is just public relations and the degree in carlow is communications and public relations.will these degrees help me out in the world of PR or will i start at the bottom like everybody else??thanx in advance

watersprings

I would go for the all rounded one - Communications & Public Relations and then follow on to do a PRII diploma in one of the certified colleges. Rathmines College would be my first choice on this - the classes are small, lecturers v. experienced and it has a great atmosphere. The best of luck!

flynnser19

thank u so much for your help this was brilliant!!!

Mad Finn

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

Irish PR companies just make damn sure the work experience plebs and the junior account executives do the faxing and the follow-up phonecalls.

Faxing Shmaxing. We do have e-mail over in the old country now, you know.

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

Just ask any journalist in Ireland how many times a week they get some utterly rubbish "did ye get de press releeese?" phonecall from some 21 year old graduate who thought it was all about parties and pretty shoes.

Heh Heh Heh. Why not ask this one?

I know I posted this elsewhere but it's particularly relevant to this thread if you ask me. Mr Delevan, business editor of the Tribune, flamed this to a few PR companies ( I believe). It was picked up and reported on, without naming him, by Ian O'Doherty in the Indo.

Mr Delevan would seem to endorse your comments.

From: r delevan <rdelevan@tribune.ie>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:35:44 +0100
To: <business@tribune.ie>
Subject: Sunday Tribune Business: "I'm gonna hunt down and kill...

the next PR person who rings me to ask, 'did you get the release I sent last week?'

However, there are plenty of other ways to actually get into my Business section and not have the phone put down on you.

One of them is to send me an email on a Thursday with 'Week Ahead' in subject line, reminding us of the following week's scheduled earnings release, AGM, EGM, conference where your client CEO (or minister or grand poobah) is speaking, industry event, etc. for inclusion in the forward diary on page 2.


You might suggest an up and coming exec who might tell us about the person she considers her mentor. You might have seen a business book that's the next must-read like The Long Tail or must-listen stock tipping podcast or have a client whose device/apparel/accessory is a must-have for an ABC1 reader in business. You might have a client who has a unique perspective on a top story (veterans of takeover battles past, step forward).

You might even have a client with a story that's such a dog its inclusion in our pages would add to the gaiety of the nation, and pitch it to me as such.

Or you might actually let your client know she'll get a fair shake by talking to us about an angle that takes a story forward.

Just don't ring us to tell us your release didn't get any pickup from the dailies and, therefore, would we be interested.

Then we'd have to kill you.

Kind regards,
Richard Delevan
Business Editor
Sunday Tribune

xha1r

Never heard of this R. Delevan, but already he has my utmost respect!

Mad Finn

xha1r wrote:

Never heard of this R. Delevan, but already he has my utmost respect!

Har Har Har.

Going off topic slightly but has anyone here ever been given those sentiments (or worse) verbally when ringing up asking about a press release? Go on!! i'm sure you have.

What's the worst 'P*** off and leave me alone" ear-reddening rejection you've ever had?

I'm sure there must be loads.

Or put it another way, which paper's journalists are the most fearsome for a PR person to call to ask about a release?

The Sweeper

It's complete arse. The whole concept of a follow up phonecall involving "did you get the release" is so obviously ridiculous that it's difficult to fathom that senior people are still instructing junior people to make calls to ensure all releases have been received.

I can only assume it's in the mistaken belief that "did you get it" will prompt the journalist to say "OH NOW LET ME SEE..." and then start fumbling around their desk or clicking through their inbox to find it. "Huzzah!" declares the journalist, deadline-pending copy forgotten, cursor flickering, abandoned in the background "Yes I have your press release about [reads title]! Thank you so much, I shall read it straight away and guarantee bedazzlement at your perfect prose and knee-slappingly hilarious pseudo-headline".

Unfortunately Mr Delevan seems to have forgotten that financial plum, ripe and juicy for the picking, that is the PR retainer. How do you justify charging your client a hefty monthly figure for a bunch of EDIT - MOD press clippings selected by a group of minimum wage, half asleep media students paid to read papers at 5am and use the sort of blunt-pointed scissors and pot of copydex glue normally distributed to primary school children?

That's right! You pretend every boardroom fart of an announcement your client squeezes out is as meaningful and newsworthy as God's own tears. You support their lack of interest in committing headcount, financial details, contract terms and duration or anything else newsworthy to paper, and write a press release that's the flag-waving equivalent of "ooo! ooo! they picked ME!!" to announce a third-rate partnership worth a sum of money that woudn't buy you a bottle of water and an exotic wrap in O'Briens. You include a quote from whatever sweating, clammy-handshaked, overweight cute-hoor is their front man on the assertion that you're positioning him as a leading industry thinker, and then you wash your hands, Pilate-style, of the sorry one-pager and descend upon some junior account executive like the devil incarnate.

When the premise of the press release is too shite for you to want to sully your name with it, make it the problem of the junior team staff to get at least an inch in the snippets columns of the business pages of two thirds of the weekly broadsheets. You are now free to schmooze!

Unfortunately you've forgotten that your junior-most staff don't understand the concept of subject and verb being vital to a sentence, let alone have an awareness of the copy deadlines of the journalists on their contact list, the unique selling point of the information in the press release, the newsworthy angle of the story or, indeed, how to find their arse with both hands, a flashlight and a map. The resulting phonecall is less sales pitch and more last ditch, as they whisper "Hello? Business desk? It's me from Surname and Franchise PR. ...did you get the press release?"

Mad Finn

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

It's complete arse. The whole concept of a follow up phonecall involving "did you get the release" is so obviously ridiculous that it's difficult to fathom that senior people are still instructing junior people to make calls to ensure all releases have been received.

True and true but as any journalist will tell you, it happens. Like, all the time.

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

How do you justify charging your client a hefty monthly figure for a bunch of EDIT - MOD press clippings ......You pretend every boardroom fart of an announcement your client squeezes out is as meaningful and newsworthy as God's own tears......
The resulting phonecall is less sales pitch and more last ditch, as they whisper "Hello? Business desk? It's me from Surname and Franchise PR. ...did you get the press release?"

All of this is perfectly true. Which is why journalists get so many calls of this nature. Do you think they are so dumb or so free of time that they don't realise it's all for the client's next 'contact report'?

Depending on how
a) close to deadline they are on some completely different story;
b) likely they are to have noticed the press release in their inbox;
c) aware they are of the fact that the call is being made by some junior exec not one of the painted label babes that makes the real money;
d) tolerant they are of the junior's plight and
e) much of a playful mood they are in,

the answer can range from 'Yeah I just saw it, it's on the pile' to 'Tell me what was in it and I'll tell you whether it has a chance', to 'FU*K off and leave me alone!!!'

What I would love to know is which paper or magazine's journalists have the hardest noses? Which are the most likely to give you answer 3 as opposed to answer 1?