Self-build or fit-only savings - what is the catch?

vallo

I have got quotes for building an extension over my garage and extending and converting my attic - quotes range from 180 to 250K from 4 different building contractors.
I could also pay a few builders union rates for about 3 to 4 months of work for a fraction of that - I think this arrangement is called "fit-only" (in that I supply all the materials).
Add in materials, equipment (builders only have the basics so would need to rent things like cement mixers etc) purchase or hire and I still seem to save thousands and thousands of euro.
Obviously I have to do the project management myself and that is additional hassle, but am I missing some obvious expense or are the professional building contractors making massive margins?
The builders I'm thinking of using are experienced non-national builders between jobs.
Are there hidden costs or risks that I should be aware of?
Or does anyone have any tips for this kind of building arrangement in general?

O-Ninio

Firstly the benefit with engaging one general contractor to do the job for you is single point responsibility he is responsible for carrying out his side of the contract, even though they may sub elements of the job that is between the contractor and subbie you don not have to manage individuals. There really is a lot to be said for only having to deal with one person.
That said if you feel you could make a substantial saving by managing the job yourself and feel capable of organising it then there is no reason why you can't do it. There are a number of drawbacks though firstly programming the different trades and delivery of materials etc. will take careful planning, you don't want a plumber arriving and no mats. for them to work with because they will want payment for turning up. I have also found that jobs where people just hire in trades on a time basis always take longer and this can really stretch out. Who is responsible for insurance etc.and future problems and also your front garden will be a disgrace afterwards who will remedy this?
In essence what you are paying the contractor for is the running and organisation of the job and also the risk and insurance elements. Self build jobs can often be poorly finished if you are not on the ball no one seems to want to take responsibility, trades men will require more than union rates to do this kind of work because of the added responsibility they take on. All that said if you feel capable go for it.

patrickolee

if you're paying your experienced non nationals by the day, they could take longer than you might imagine... or than they say at the start. Do you know how long all the jobs should take and will you be able to 'motivate' them if they start taking longer? When you say 'experienced', how do you know their experience?

I went down this road to get a kitchen tiled and some floors put down, a much smaller amount of work than the sounds of yours. Nice guy (Romanian) and actually did an excellent job in the end, but it ended up costing me more and taking longer than it would have with a professional tiler. Before he took the job he told me he'd done it all before, no problem, we'd have it down in a week or two. Half way through the job he admitted over a pint that he'd never tiled before! He helped someone do one and figured it was easy enough. The only way I found to speed him up was do part of the work myself when he wasn't there. That way he saw his potential pay diminish, the longer he delayed! All worked out ok in the end anyway, but I'll never try to save money in that way again. Course I had an experience along the way, learnt a lot, including how to tile and put down floors! If I was doing it again I'd get the professional builder to do it and wouldn't pay cash.

rooferPete

Hi vallo,

Even today prices of €180 > 250k suggest a fairly big job, mind you a difference of €70k between quotes is also a large amount by any standard.

How would you feel about paying a retired builder to manage the project for you ? BTW all trades do not come under the heading of Builder

There are so many little things that can go wrong when a job is badly or not manged, don't expect each trade to work on their own inititive most expect to have at least an experienced forman making sure their work is to standard.

The break up of the different trades today would have me nervous about getting involved in a job where the main contractor has limited if any experience.

From this chair you are investing a lot of money in your home, for a little more you could have a great job done, there are times when the savings can actually cost you three times what you should have paid.

First payment for a bad job, even if it's only part of the whole project ;
second payment pulling out the bad work ;
third payment getiing it done properly.

Maybe you could take time off work for a few weeks and manage the job as if it was your paying job, draw your pay and all expences from the total, you may get value that way.

.

patrickolee

Ooops, you're right Pete, sorry meant to say 'professional tiler'. Had builder on the mind from original post. Anyway, having been down a 'looks so good, I can really save some money' road and finding out that there's a few potholes along the way, I agree, you'll probably save money not trying to do it yourself. Might not be as fun though :-)

vallo

Thanks for the feedback folks. I'm not surprised at the general tone of your answers, I guess I know I'm running a risk. The builders in question seem like genuine guys who are going out on their own and need to get a start, so I reckon they'll do a good job in order to get a positive reference. Hearing about your experience Oninio I'll keep a close eye on what they are doing and we'll agree schedules up-front. I've been doing project management (different industry) for years so I think that experience may help.
Rooferpete, your idea of getting a retired builder to project manage sounds good - what would I expect to pay someone for such a service?
And does anyone know if there are any must-have insurances that I should have if turning my house into a building site (eg in case a postman injures himself delivering post, or god forbid, in case a builder injured himself falling off a scaffold).
Thanks again.