Drink - Id

garred

Know a chap who went into an off-licence to get some drink. He was over 18 and had a valid passport. He was refused because he did not have a Garda Id card (which they would only accept). Surely a vaild passport is a legal document and they would be entitled to take it, I could be wrong though. Is this common practice now, Garda Id or no drink?

BrianD

I think that retailers are wrong to insist on Garda ID only. The three acceptable forms should be - valid passport, valid drivers licence and the Garda ID. Exactly the same as in other countries such as USA and Australia.(despite what publicans say and use the lack of a national ID as a red herring)

Random

They have the right to refuse service - period.

But Bollocks to them for refusing service to someone with a passport.

gilroyb

ciaranfo wrote:

They have the right to refuse service - period.

No they don't - period.

They have the right to refuse service on the basis of a patron being drunk. They have the right to refuse entry on a number of basis, but it is by no means limitless.

grimloch

hullabaloo wrote:

I think store policy is a valid reason to deny you alcohol. Remember the rule of "invitation to treat" etc which means that your offering to buy the drink for some consideration, and the shop assistant (acting as an agent) is fully entitled not to accept your offer.

See this thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054901937

JC 2K3

gilroyb wrote:

No they don't - period.

They have the right to refuse service on the basis of a patron being drunk. They have the right to refuse entry on a number of basis, but it is by no means limitless.

Sure it is. Can't any shop refuse service to anyone they wish?

Sangre

An offy can refuse anyone they want. Its their goods to sell.

garred

Fair enough with refusing to serve someone but if its because they don't have a Garda Id yet have a valid passport. Maybe there was a new law passed about this I'm not sure. In my day.........

gilroyb

But in this case the reason they are refusing is on the basis of age. Equality legislation still applies, one would assume. There has to be a reasonable suspicion that you are not overage.

To be honest I had initially misread the first post so I hadn't noticed it said off-licence until after my previous post. However there is never a right to discriminate when it is against equality legislation, even if the sale is off and not on trade. I'm not saying that the offo is wrong to do what their doing, just that there are cases when it would be wrong to refuse service

Nightwish

its a total pain to those unfortunate enough to look so young! I had my wallet stolen in November, which had my Age Card in it, and it took over 4 and a half months for a replacement to arrive. During that period I wouldnt have been able to acquire alcohol from a number of outlets. Then again, any retail outlet has the right to refuse business to anybody they wish. Its just very irritating that there is no definite acceptable form of ID for all licensed premises.

aidan_walsh

Its just very irritating that there is no definite acceptable form of ID for all licensed premises.

Isn't that what the age card is supposed to be?

Maybe we should just take a peek into Blair's ID card plans and work from there...

Nightwish

yes the Age Card was developed by the Gardaí in conjunction with the VFI, however, I on more than one occasion have been asked for another form of ID along with my Age Card, so it defeats the purpose of it. I was also told my Age Card was a fake by an obviously well educated bouncer and on another occasion a bouncer said "Passports and drivers licences only" when I took out my Age card.

TheMonster

The reason passports aren't accepted is that they can be up to 10 years old and thus you could easiliy use a relatives passport that is 8 years old that slightly looks like you. Off licenses should accept a passport that is less than 1 year old.

Cabaal

TheMonster wrote:

The reason passports aren't accepted is that they can be up to 10 years old and thus you could easiliy use a relatives passport that is 8 years old that slightly looks like you. Off licenses should accept a passport that is less than 1 year old.

Bollox to that, a passport is a legal document and its your job to keep it safe from being stolen...bringing it out on a night out is a retarded thing to do with such a important document.

An age card on the other hand costs about €6 and is basically worthless, if a premises refuses it, ask for the manager and simply advise them that they are part of the VFI and that they lobbyed for the card, if you stand your grand you'll win out to be honest.

Nightwish

Cabaal wrote:

An age card on the other hand costs about €6 and is basically worthless, if a premises refuses it, ask for the manager and simply advise them that they are part of the VFI and that they lobbyed for the card, if you stand your grand you'll win out to be honest.

That should be so, but on the occasion I was told mine was fake, I saw some Gardaí on the street and showed them the card in the presence of the bouncers. The Gardaí said they could find no fault with my card so then the bouncer said that he was using his right to refuse me entry and said I was barred.

Berns

Was down in Dublin for a night out with a mate couple years ago. Had been down before with rugby lads & no problem. Anyhow not knowin the area just went to the first club that we could find. Ended up being club M or sumfin. Anyhow, had ID with us. Bouncer didnt even bother lookin at it & said not tonight lads. Same with The Ballroom or sumfin that had been on once before.
Seems the only way stand a chance of gettin in is if there is group of about 15 or 20 with ya

sioda

The whole ID system in this country is a joke. As a person over 24 I no longer carry ID and the odd time still get asked its stupid. I got asked for a Garda ID one nite and told the Gard (in my pure ignorance)who asked me that I wasn't a gard and why would I have one didn't go down too well. As for the passport thing a previous poster said you'd be nuts to carry one on a nite on hte beer and they are rite the only way is to issue a mandatory ID card when you are 18 and let the privacy laws go swing.

Alkers

I was refused service in O'Briens in Donybrook with a passport as the guy didn't think it was mine. I went straight across the road to the Garda station and one of the gards came across the road and into the offliscence with me and I was served no bother. This was only about 15 months ago.

hullaballoo

This is always a contentious issue for people. No one ever seems to want to be asked for ID and then when they do, to have someone turn around and tell you that it's unacceptable is a bit rich, especially if there seem to be double standards i.e. some places accepting Garda Age Cards only, and others only accepting Passports and full drivers' licences.

I always think it's funny that I can get into the USA on my passport, and even buy alcohol there with it and then some clubs and bars just won't accept it.

I'd prefer to be told that I'm not going to be served or let in no matter what before I bother breaking out the ID. In fact, I think that such a policy would be legally safer for bouncers etc. anyway.

garred

^ Agree totally.

Crash

I had a bit of an argument with Tesco's a couple of years ago after refusing to sell me alcohol with my passport as it was, to them, an unacceptable form of ID (wouldnt have minded half as much but i was buying my dad a bottle of wine for fathers day at the last minute) - iirc what i found when trolling my way through oasis's lovely little bits is that under the last licensing law brought in the three forms of identification which are considered official and (i think the wording was) MUST be accepted as such are passport, age card and full drivers license. As such an offlicense may rightly refuse to serve you under the fact that they have that option, however they may not rightly refuse you on grounds of use of said identification.

TheMonster

crash_000 wrote:

I had a bit of an argument with Tesco's a couple of years ago after refusing to sell me alcohol with my passport as it was, to them, an unacceptable form of ID (wouldnt have minded half as much but i was buying my dad a bottle of wine for fathers day at the last minute) - iirc what i found when trolling my way through oasis's lovely little bits is that under the last licensing law brought in the three forms of identification which are considered official and (i think the wording was) MUST be accepted as such are passport, age card and full drivers license. As such an offlicense may rightly refuse to serve you under the fact that they have that option, however they may not rightly refuse you on grounds of use of said identification.

But they can claim its not yours or is fake

gerrycollins

I run a large grocery store and here are the real facts of the matter

If i serve an under 18 i will get closed down for a day or lose my licence
and all that, to accecpt driving licence or pasport the onus in on me to ensure that the id is vaild and in date and not a fake

To accecpt a garda ID is simple cause the garda have done the checks for me so many places only accecpt garda ID as it take the onus of responsibility away from the staff member to verify the age of the person

On a few occasions i have had to verify the garda id (normally cause of picture issues) and only then will I accecpt passport or driving licence to confirm the person

Many laws contrdict themselves and the Occupiers Liabilitys act allows me too refuse entrance or service to any persons with a genunie reason and if one of my policys is that the only id allowed is the garda ID then that is a reasonable reason,why should i have a policy on cheques with bank card etc i could go on

As for bouncers and ID well I cant say but from personal experience no matter what age you are if they dont like the cut of you, your not getting in

As for legal there have been no cases yet to my knowledge where a shop has been fined etc. for refusing service to an over 18yr old based on ID issues,Can you imagine if a court overruled a shops decision to refuse service based on ID then we might as well serve alcho to everybody one and all
the only case I do know of is where an offlicence refused to sell spirits to and over 18 (with garda ID) stating the their age for spirits was 21 no that is breaking the Equaility status act

Nightwish

I totally understand where gerrycollins is coming from on this issue. The whole point of the Age Card was to stop people from carrying around a Drivers Licence or passport in order to prove their age. I dont really have a problem with a licensed premises asking for Age Cards only, its just the system doesnt work properly. Firstly there are the delays in issuing the Age Card (4 months at the moment), whereas the DoJ website states 2 weeks. The person who is legally allowed to purchase alcohol cannot do so in many off licenses and pubs etc for a considerable period of time because of this delay. Then there are places which wont accept Age Cards or ask for another form of ID with the Age Card (its not my fault my hair has grown since the picture was taken!), again this defeats the purpose of the card.

And as gerrycollins said, retailers like to insist on Age Cards only because the Gardaí have carried out the checks, but both times I applied for my Age Card, I was never asked for proof of ID or Age. The first Age Card I got, actually had my name and DOB but someone elses picture on it.