Leinster v Munster - ERC Heineken Cup Semi Final

Big Ears

Limerick Dude wrote:

its guna be 3rd time lucky for us! this is the year that we will do it!
COME ON THE RED ARMY!

Oh please god I hope so............I couldn't stand to lose another final .

Pepe LeFrits

Flukey Munster

kyp_durron

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Flukey Munster

Ha ha, yeah 30-6, some fluke.

Sizzler

I passed Ross O'Caroll Kelly a few mins ago in D4, he was crying into his 'Ken...roysh!

Limerick Dude

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Flukey Munster

yeah a 30-6 thrashing!
real flukey :rolleyes:

Pepe LeFrits

Could have gone either way

Amazotheamazing

Fair play to both teams, great game, but fair play to Munster for getting over their injuries.

kyp_durron

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Could have gone either way

Did you see the match? Because the match I saw Munster completely dominated, fair enough the scoreline flattered Munster a bit but still......

Marshy

Munster did completely dominate but this now does reinforce the idea of leinster bottling it on the big occasion. I mean contepomi totally self-destructed, freddy michalak style.

Nukem

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Could have gone either way

*sctarches head* were you looking at the same match?
Reckon ya should check all the stats before you make further comments.

Pepe LeFrits

Stats don't tell the whole story

mike65

Don't feed the troll.

Mike.

Karmafaerie

Marshy wrote:

Munster did completely dominate but this now does reinforce the idea of leinster bottling it on the big occasion. I mean contepomi totally self-destructed, freddy michalak style.

Before the same old tired stories come out, lets be honest.
Leinster didn't bottle anything.
Munster just hit them hard, and never took their foot of the peddle (with the exception of a brief spell near the end of the second half) for the duration.
Leinster never had a chance to bottle it.
The only Leinster player who had a bad game was Contepomi.
Munster quite simply won the game.
They did all the simple things well, and played their own game.
The only problem I could see with the Leinster game plan, was that they tried to go toe to toe, with Munsters strengths, and never had a chance to exploit Munsters weaknesses.
The truth is, with O'Gara on song, Munster can tear the best packs in the world to shreds, and with all due respect to Leinster, their pack is far inferior to Munsters.
This match just came a couple of years too soon for Leinster.
Munster have been one of Europes elite teams for nearly a decade now, and Leinster just don't have the experience yet.
With Munsters backs, improving, and Leinsters forwards, getting better, and better, it's mouthwatering, how good they both are going to be over the next 5 years!
Anyway, We'll meet ye in the final next year!!!

hullaballoo

I don't agree with that at all. Leinster are way better than the way they played today. I mean, all credit to Munster where it's due, but Leinster are a decent side, and no one expected them to get the thrashing they got today. That's a reflection on the fact that they have been playing great rugby this year, and on a better day, they could have come a lot closer to Munster, and maybe even clinched the game.

Karmafaerie

hullaballoo wrote:

I don't agree with that at all. Leinster are way better than the way they played today. I mean, all credit to Munster where it's due, but Leinster are a decent side, and no one expected them to get the thrashing they got today. That's a reflection on the fact that they have been playing great rugby this year, and on a better day, they could have come a lot closer to Munster, and maybe even clinched the game.

I'm not saying that Leinster aren't brilliant.
I think that Leinster play some of the best rugby in the world right now. only New Zealand have better back play!
All I'm saying is that it wasn't Leinsters fault that they lost.
A lot of people are going to give Leinster alot of slack, saying that they bottled it. That simply isn't true.
Munster never gave Leinster the chance to bottle it.
Munster were just too experienced.
If Munster hadn't shoved the game down their throats right from the start, Leinster would have made it a much tighter game.
Munster though (because of their experience), were just one step ahead.
To be honest, in the long run, this is probably a good thing for Leinster rugby.
I know their are alot of die-hard Leinster fans out there, but they don't have the same ferverent support as Munster.
A lot of Leinster fans are new to this, and have only supported Leinster in the last few years, since Leinster started coming good.
This setback, will make the Leinster fans (and players) more hungry for success next year, like it has over the last decade (the whole way back to the 60's and 70's really!) In Munster.
All in all, this is great for Leinster, Munster, and Ireland!!!

moshpit77

NotWormBoy

Karmafaerie wrote:

All I'm saying is that it wasn't Leinsters fault that they lost.

Munster never gave Leinster the chance to bottle it. Munster were just too experienced.

If Munster hadn't shoved the game down their throats right from the start, Leinster would have made it a much tighter game.

I know, I snipped at bit. I think thats the core of it though.

As a Leinster supporter, I have to agree. Munster did to Contepomi what Leinster should have done to O'Gara from the start; they never let him settle on his game, and he never really got into it (today, he reminded me of that quarterback that is one of the best in the league, if not the best, but manages to bottle it on the big occassion). We know Contepomi is world class, but today he just didn't perform.

Leinster showed the nerves, and from the start they were taken advantage of. The Leinster pack never got to grips with, what is to be fair a superiour Munster pack, and as such the backs never had the platform to show their skills. On the few occasions that they did get the chance, they showed they had teeth, but Munster's pack recovered in time to slow the play down and stop Leinster advancing.

So, in the key areas, Leinster were simply outplayed - flyhalf and in the forwards. And you can't play with that happening.

So, fair play to Munster - a magnificent performance, tactics spot on; a deserved victory for a far superior team. I cheered Leinster today, but I'll be cheering Munster in the final, like I hope the rest of the country will be.

Here's to a Leinster Munster Croker final somtime soon. :-)

jank

Hats off to Munster. Great day all round. The ladyboys got battered all over the place. They never settled They tried to meet fire with fire and were rightly hammered

Paul o'Connell is a monster of a player. BOD is world class but O'Connell is the best player ireland have at the moment. Has he ever had a bad game?

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060401/i/r2395487698.jpg

Munster for the cup now and another great day out. Loads of people will be calling in sick to work tomorrow.:D

Q_Ball

I had a fiver on munster winning by between 1 and 5 points, expecting Leinster to turn up

Cracking game, but not as great as the hype was making it out to be.

shoutman

As a Leinster supporter I was dissapointed with the performance today. If last week was to go by then Leinster should have beaten Munster by 20+, obviously as we all know rugby (and sports in general) doesn't always go by the form guide.

I think the difference was that no Munster man had a bad game, and i did not see one badly miscued kick by O'Gara, Stringer, Dowling or Payne.
In contrast Contepomi had a woefull kicking game.

It is fair to say that the great argentinian did not have one of his better games, his kicking from out of hand and from the tea was very poor, his restarts were just as bad, some of his decisions were awfully amateurish. But I don't think that it is fair to lay all the blame on him. The ball he got was slow and sloppy. The Leinster backrow were played off the park, I felt that Mal O'Kelly did not have the game that Leinster fans prayed he would have, he was absolutely outshon (sp) by the brilliant Paul O'Connell.

Munster dictated the pace.tempo and style of the game. They held most of the possession and both stringer and o'gara had astute kicking games nailing leinster deep into their own half on numourous occasions.

For Leinster I felt that O'Driscoll, Hickie and Easterby played alright, but other then that I gelt it was a below par performance from a team that promised so much but failed to deliver when it mattered most.

Unfortunately this seems to be a far too common occurance from players wearing the blue of Leinster.

psicic

From where I was sitting on the stand, Leinster may have been on the pitch, but they didn’t show up to play. They didn’t seem to commit to tackles, made silly errors – and I’m not just talking the surprisingly lacklustre Contepomi. Lineouts, people? Okay, to do it once is silly, but twice then thrice?

Not to take away from them, Leinster had good moments(it’s always exciting to see Hickey, ball in hand) and Munster were deserved winners. Munster did close down on any little flourishes there were and showed their experience. However, this was a different Leinster team then played Toulouse. Fair play to you if you want to ascribe all that happened to great Munster play – but some of Les Blue's errors were too unforced and amateurish. I’m sure the Munster team aren’t going to march off to Cardiff half-cocked thinking they’ve beaten Leinster at their best.

If Leinster keeps up the form, though, with steady improvement and class play, next season is going to be real interesting. (Is the Rainbow Cup/League still in the offing???)

ferdi

a shambolic performance from leinster.

Snickers Man

It's not a troll.

It could have gone either way. Even though Leinster were playing woefully by their own standards, they were only 10 points behind with 10 minutes to go. Their backs are fast and skilfull enough to take advantage of the slightest slip up. If Munster had made a mistake, or if one of the backline moves had come off, it would have been a whole different story.

Munster bossed them up front. We expected that.
O'Gara was on top of his game; Contepomi had a shocker. We didn't expect that.

Which is not to say that the end result didn't reflect the overall conduct of the match. It did.

Here's jsut hoping that when O'Gara comes up against Contepomi in the Ireland Argentina World Cup group decider next year that Contepomi doesn't reverse the trend.

If he does I'm going to gather up Duncan McRae and Paul Volley and come looking for O'Gara with a set of knuckle dusters and a baseball bat.

GreenHell

Naa Leinster had lost the game early in the first half, munster just sucked the life out of them, D'arcy and Bod could have left for pints and come back such was the amount of ball they were getting.

Its not that Munster did anything particularly special in the game they just held onto the ball for long periods and were successful at slowing down Leinster ball. Also defense, lineout and scum were rock solid.

Even if things had gone right for leinster on the day I believe they would have found it very hard to break us down.

besty

Fair play to Munster. They were really up for it and deserved it. I think this HAS to be their year.

Snickers Man

Whatever. It's all academic now.

Roll on next season.

I see redemption. Munster Leinster Q final in Thomond. What a way for that unbeaten home record to go.

bugler

Snickers Man wrote:

It could have gone either way.

So could World War 2.

The point is, it didn't. If you can't move the ball forward, you can't move it wide. Leinster didn't have the power to match the Munster forwards, and they lost the game from there. If they played them next week, they still wouldn't have the power, and if Munster successfully executed their game plan, the result would still be a Munster win.

A brief synopsis of my humble opinion on some of the problem players in the Leinster side:

Williams - Not even close to the required standard. They will be glad to be rid of him. Eh, why were Leo Cullen and Bob Casey allowed across the water?

Jowitt - Similar to Williams, in that he is a 2nd rate southern hemisphere player who is deemed to be good for that reason. He is young, but I am not impressed with what I have seen. Looked like a gangly youth compared to the Munster pack.

Easterby - Never an easy day for the SH considering his pack were being dominated, but he's not even in the top 3 of irish scrum halves now, and may never have been.

O'Kelly - Far too inconsistent, Has been a brilliant servant to club and country, but looks off the pace now. There are at least 4 more consistent Irish second rowers.

Corrigan - Too old. Runs out of puff after half-time, and got a doing in the tight from Hayes. Who does that happen to? And this guy has another year on his contract.

The problem, as was mentioned in the RTE coverage yesterday, is that you just don't get 4/5 new forwards in a year.

All other sides will have watched this game with interest. And there will lessons learned. Should Leinster have to travel away and play a top French side again, they will find it harder again.

I hope Munster's problems at centre don't ruin their chances.

The best of luck to both Irish sides.

Karmafaerie

psicic wrote:

From where I was sitting on the stand, Leinster may have been on the pitch, but they didn’t show up to play. They didn’t seem to commit to tackles, made silly errors – and I’m not just talking the surprisingly lacklustre Contepomi. Lineouts, people? Okay, to do it once is silly, but twice then thrice?

Munster have one of the best defensive, and offensive lineouts in Europe.
That was always going to happen.

psicic wrote:

I’m sure the Munster team aren’t going to march off to Cardiff half-cocked thinking they’ve beaten Leinster at their best.

You do realise that this is the second time that Munster beat Leinster by 24 points this season right?

09/10/2005
Munster 33 - 9 Leinster
31/12/2005
Leinster 35 - 23 Munster
23/04/06
Leinster 06 - 30 Munster

Amazotheamazing

I'm surprised no-one has really commented on how Cheika got it completely and utterly wrong. For example, attacking A. Horgan's wing rather than through the centre, not using S. Horgan to attack Munster's makeshift centre combo, not having back-up to O'Kelly who rarely lasts the full 80 at this level anymore, taking off Jowitt (who still finished as one of Leinster's top tacklers despite leaving early) rather than an injured Williams or tired O'Kelly, having no alternative outhalf or kicker for Contepomi, everyone knew he was tempermental and could have a bad day. Cheika's had a good season, and he'll learn from Sunday but he made some poor calls in the build up to this game.

Teg Veece

shoutman wrote:

It is fair to say that the great argentinian did not have one of his better games, his kicking from out of hand and from the tea was very poor, his restarts were just as bad, some of his decisions were awfully amateurish.

Does anyone know if they played that Griffith College ad during the half time breaks?

Hippo

Amazotheamazing wrote:

I'm surprised no-one has really commented on how Cheika got it completely and utterly wrong. For example, attacking A. Horgan's wing rather than through the centre, not using S. Horgan to attack Munster's makeshift centre combo, not having back-up to O'Kelly who rarely lasts the full 80 at this level anymore, taking off Jowitt (who still finished as one of Leinster's top tacklers despite leaving early) rather than an injured Williams or tired O'Kelly, having no alternative outhalf or kicker for Contepomi, everyone knew he was tempermental and could have a bad day. Cheika's had a good season, and he'll learn from Sunday but he made some poor calls in the build up to this game.

Amazo you make some interesting points about Cheika. I thought before the game that if Contepomi was injured in either the run-up to the game or early on that we would have no chance of winning, as he has been the crucial part of the jigsaw all season and there is no replacement. And so it proved...not the only factor for sure, but a major one. He was clearly gone from the first kick-off, and nothing functioned after that. Cheika has always given the team licence to play what they see in front of them,and my reading of things is that they (and principally Contepomi) are left to play pretty much whatever they feel is right. Unfortunately the chief decision-maker wasn't at the races on Sunday. This doesn't explain the failure to use Shaggy through the middle or chip over what was at times a temptingly flat Munster defence, and I agree with you about Jowitt.
Also Cheika may be indicted for the lack of a replacement at 10, but player recruitment is a very arcane issue in the Leinster Branch, and I couldn't say with any confidence who was responsible for this bizarre situation. Next season will tell us everything about him I suppose.
The other major factor in the game was POC's performance, so powerful and effective that it's difficult to sum up. The one-handed catches of lineout throws that had already passed him overhead were really something, to highlight just one aspect of his collossal game. He really is the difference for this Munster team.

Amazotheamazing

Licence to play whats in front of you is fine, but it's lost New Zealand at least 2 World Cups, becuase eventually you come across a team that strangles the ball. The important thing with playing freeflowing rugby is getting usable ball, something Leisnter got very little of on Sunday. But even had Leinster got usable (or clean or go-forward, insert cliche here) ball, I strongly suspect the tactics were all wrong anyway.

Hippo

I'm not disagreeing, I think this freedom to play is wholly dependant on the circumstances, and isn't going to win you any trophies on its own. I think Knox might be even more influential than Cheika in this regard, it' s very much his style. It would also have been too fundamental a change for Leinster to revert a more structured game on Sunday after what they've been doing all season. They were never going to grind out a result, I don't think they're capable of that. Having said all that, not all their ball was slow or bad, and they've thrived on scraps already this season, but the decision-making and execution at 10 was at times really poor.

Lisapeep

Why was the "Leinster supporters" thread locked? Could a mod explain please?

RuggieBear

Lisapeep wrote:

Why was the "Leinster supporters" thread locked? Could a mod explain please?

not the place to be asking. why not pm one of us.

spanner

as a leinster supporter

what I thought was clever by kidney was that he somehow put the favourite cap on leinster, very clever because even going into the game munster should of been clean favourites.

Munster have done well in constantly playing the underdog card, when they really should not have it. apart from toulouse munster have been the most constant team in the HC, they must have the largest fan base of any other team in the competion (much larger than leinster). So as disappointed as I was last week I by no means had any illusions that the two teams were evenly matched. what you have in munster is a well drilled, highly experience side playing a side, that even with their big names still have not had the experience and structure that munster have. there should be an expectation on munster like real madrid to suceed. Lets hope they are going to stop being the nearly men of the HC competion.

as a footnote, leinster draws just about all its support from a small part of dublin, (I know as I am from Co. Wexford) were Munster have a much wider base. So It stands to reason they will out number us