Denis Donaldson shot dead

MrSinn

I would not put it past some british organisation being behind this,there is a lot of people on both sides of the political divide that dont want peace,northern ireland was always a good (real time) training groung for the likes of the SAS

mike65

It'll be a damn quiet funeral....

Mike.

MrSinn

muffler wrote:

Would he still be alive if that Sunday Rag had not disclosed his location.

I think this sad incident has cast as a cloud over the extent to which newspapers should go in order to sell their stories.

The IRA was in it's time the most successful terrorist groups in the world,even the british prime minister was'nt safe from them
They escaped out of britans top security prison(s)
They broke into and out of prisons
They WALKED into the most secure building in northern ireland and WALKED out with what they needed
And more recently they stole 1 of the largest cash robberys in british history

I dont think they need a sunday glossy to give them any information

macfran

:mad:

muffler wrote:

Would he still be alive if that Sunday Rag had not disclosed his location.

I think this sad incident has cast as a cloud over the extent to which newspapers should go in order to sell their stories.

I agree with you and when I read that article I wondered what was the purpose of it . If a person is in hiding from police for committing a murder or drug dealing or something I could understand a newspaper disclosing where he was hiding.

Also I was livid to see RTE interviewing Ian Paisley on the news about the murder of this man. Why do they continue to give this dictator air space to stand on his soap box.

muffler

MrSinn wrote:

The IRA was in it's time the most successful terrorist groups in the world,even the british prime minister was'nt safe from them
They escaped out of britans top security prison(s)
They broke into and out of prisons
They WALKED into the most secure building in northern ireland and WALKED out with what they needed
And more recently they stole 1 of the largest cash robberys in british history

I dont think they need a sunday glossy to give them any information

And all of the above is based on your opinion that the IRA murdered him.

I would have thought that it was the same IRA that placed him here in Donegal in the first place

MrSinn

I bet whoever did this are not too worried about the garda catching them,looks like they better get the FBI again,banana peelers.

MrSinn

muffler wrote:

And all of the above is based on your opinion that the IRA murdered him.

I would have thought that it was the same IRA that placed him here in Donegal in the first place

And the same IRA that would have known he was a rat before we did

pogoń

Sand wrote:

They got away with McCartney, and they got away with Eamonn McCann who was murdered for writing the book "Killing Rage" and giving testimony against one Thomas "Slab" Murphy in the libel trial he lost..

Eamonn Collins.

I believe McCann is a well-known Londonderry socialist and environmental campaigner.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/61942

Julesie

Hmmm.. its a strange one alright. I dont really know what to make of it.

On the one hand it seems that the republican movement gain nothing from this death and therefore it is more likely the work of a loyalist group intent on disrupting the peace movement.
But on the other hand, we all know that some of the blood thirsty thugs that masquerade under the republican banner would have pulled the trigger before ever stopping to think of the political fallout of their actions. I honestly dont believe that this is a "hit" that would have been ordered by the top ranks in Sinn Fein but i wouldnt rule out the possibility that some local nutcases in the Glenties area took it upon themselves to exact revenge on someone they saw as a traitor.

smashey

pogo&#324 wrote:

Eamonn Collins.

I believe McCann is a well-known Londonderrysocialist and environmental campaigner.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/61942

Are you trying to wind people up?

MrSinn

I dont think i have much sympathy for him anyway,how many irishmen and women dies of his actions down the 25 years that he was a double agent
He did what any dog does when it knows its going to die,he went somewhere quiet.

muffler

Julesie wrote:

but i wouldnt rule out the possibility that some local nutcases in the Glenties area took it upon themselves to exact revenge on someone they saw as a traitor.

I dont think that the good people of Glenties will thank you for that

Kinda stupid staying in the country

pogoń

smashey wrote:

Are you trying to wind people up?

By using the name Londonderry ?

No.

If you choose to call the same place 'Derry' are you trying to wind me up ?

mike65

Lads leave the playground stuff outside eh? Each to his own.

Mike.

ghostdancer

another thing worthy noting, if PIRA wanted him dead, they could easily have had him murdered before he went in mainstream media saying he was a spy. he had admitted it to the SF hierarchy in belfast several days before that. there's no logical reason for PIRA to wait until now to have him murdered even if they did want to kill him.
they have absoultely nothing to gain from murdering him a couple of weeks before Stormont is recalled, and a hell of a lot to lose.

the Real/Contos are welcoming his murder from what i've read on other boards, saying that no, hopefully the GFA will be doomed forever.
it is certainly of alot of benefit to the dissident Republicans, and alot of benefit to those within Unionism, aswell as sectors of the British government, opposed to SF going into power sharing.


just read that his wife was living in the house with him and is apparently missing at this time. anyone got a link to somewhere offical on that? haven't actually seen any of the bulletins mention this, so presumably it's just hearsay...

The Corinthian

Anything’s possible, but some are more probable than others. From my reading of the situation these are the options:

Unrelated Crime. Possible. Perhaps Donaldson was shagging his best friend’s wife and he found out or it was a burglary that went horribly wrong. And perhaps air will spontaneously transmute into gold...

British / Irish Government Assassination. The only way this is even vaguely possible is if Donaldson was in possession of information that would be embarrassing to either and / or both governments. This is so highly improbable to the point that anyone who took such a theory seriously is most likely an IRA apologist and/or an idiot.

Loyalist Plot. Again possible, in that they would - on the surface - have to gain from a failure of the peace process. I say on the surface, as this is what their rhetoric would indicate, and loyalist (like republican) rhetoric is often more about posturing than actual intent.

So, again I think it unlikely for the above reservation (although that’s certainly open to debate) as well as the fact that loyalist paramilitary groups are not really capable of something of that level of Machiavellian sophistication. They’re simply not that clever.

Possible but unlikely.

PIRA / Rogue Republicans. Most likely cause. While it is certainly not in the interests of SF (and the PIRA), it is no secret that few in those ranks would shed any tears for Donaldson’s demise. This is not to say that it was carried out by members of the PIRA (there are numerous republican groups that would also have been happy to see him dead) or even that the termination was sanctioned by the PIRA.

It is also possible that senior members of the PIRA ordered his termination as he may have still known undisclosed information that may have been still deemed dangerous either to the organisation or individuals within it, but this is improbable.

However, many of the foot soldiers in republican (and loyalist) paramilitary groups are not the brightest pennies in the purse and have been brought up in an atmosphere of simplistic vigilantism. As such the most likely culprits were some republican boyos who took it upon themselves to ‘dispense justice’, not fully appreciating, or for that matter understanding, the negative (to their own organisation) political ramifications that such an act would likely invoke.

So don’t be surprised if we find a few twenty-something year-old lads in a landfill in a few months time.

mike65 wrote:

Lads leave the playground stuff outside eh? Each to his own.

If that were possible there wouldn't be a Northern Irish question.

mike65

Doh, silly me!

Mike.

flogen

The Corinthian wrote:

Loyalist Plot. Again possible, in that they would - on the surface - have to gain from a failure of the peace process. I say on the surface, as this is what their rhetoric would indicate, and loyalist (like republican) rhetoric is often more about posturing than actual intent

I think this is even more unlikely than you give credit for; the only reason they would bother killing him is to unhinge the Peace Process, possibly in the hope that PIRA would get blamed for it and Sinn Fein would be sent packing by Paisley and co.

However, if Stormont doesn't get back on track it has been made more than clear to everyone involved that Downing Street and... eh Drumcondra Road... will take joint-authority over Northern Ireland... no loyalist would knowingly invite Dublin into direct control of the North.

civdef

The front page of Daily Ireland this morning said suicide hasn't been ruled out. Are they aiming to outdo the much lamented Portadown News?

The_Minister

MrSinn wrote:

I dont think i have much sympathy for him anyway,how many irishmen and women dies of his actions down the 25 years that he was a double agent

Yes, he was in Sinn Fein for quite a while.....

The Corinthian

flogen wrote:

I think this is even more unlikely than you give credit for; the only reason they would bother killing him is to unhinge the Peace Process, possibly in the hope that PIRA would get blamed for it and Sinn Fein would be sent packing by Paisley and co.

However, if Stormont doesn't get back on track it has been made more than clear to everyone involved that Downing Street and... eh Drumcondra Road... will take joint-authority over Northern Ireland... no loyalist would knowingly invite Dublin into direct control of the North.

I was just listing possibilities, which it is and I also conceded an unlikely one.

However another related possibility that I would add is the following:

Return to Business as Usual. Both loyalist and republican groups share one motive for the collapse of the peace process and that is money. It is no secret that organised crime in the north and much of the south is controlled by paramilitary groups; covering everything from smuggling, counterfeiting, drugs and armed robbery. With the PIRA order to “cease all activities” this cut the income of quite a few people, and for the loyalist paramilitaries too, the peace process essentially is a death knell to their rackets.

Money is always a good motive, so I would also rate this, although I’d think a republican group more likely to have been able to carry it out than a loyalist one. My main feeling against this theory is, again, that I don’t think these guys (at the level that this would have originated from in whichever organisation) are sophisticated enough for something as Machiavellian as this.

Of course one might argue that republican / loyalist paramilitary groups are primarily ideologically motivated; the rackets are only there to fund their fight for their respective communities. How do you think the Mafia started?

civdef wrote:

The front page of Daily Ireland this morning said suicide hasn't been ruled out. Are they aiming to outdo the much lamented Portadown News?

As with an unrelated crime and / or an accident, it’s improbable in light of his hand also being mutilated.

flogen

The Corinthian wrote:

I was just listing possibilities, which it is and I also conceded an unlikely one.

Oh I know, I was just pointing out another reason why it was unlikely.

As with an unrelated crime and / or an accident, it’s improbable in light of his hand also being mutilated.

I think The Daily Ireland (soon to be The Daily Republican, or something), has highlighted either a degree of blind ignorance or an earlier print-deadline than other papers.

mountainyman

Stood down PIRA ASU. Hit sanctioned at Brigade level (Tyrone) no higher.

MM

muffler

mountainyman wrote:

Stood down PIRA ASU. Hit sanctioned at Brigade level (Tyrone) no higher.

MM

If you were in a position to know that then you certainly wouldn't be posting it here.

Have a nice day Walter Mitty

flogen

Excuse my ignorance, but what does ASU stand for?

edit: Active Service Unit I figure... Never mind

mountainyman

muffler wrote:

If you were in a position to know that then you certainly wouldn't be posting it here.

It is called an Opinion OK in my opinion it is members of a stood down ASU of the West Tyrone Brigade which has not split from the provos. That killed Donaldson.

Anyway if you're so smart what are you paying for Petrol?

MM

muffler

mountainyman wrote:

It is called an Opinion OK in my opinion it is members of a stood down ASU of the West Tyrone Brigade which has not split from the provos. That killed Donaldson.

Anyway if you're so smart what are you paying for Petrol?

MM

Stating an opinion and stating a fact are completely different. You should make it clear in your posts which one you are offering.

By the way I buy diesel:D

finnpark

mountainyman wrote:

It is called an Opinion OK in my opinion it is members of a stood down ASU of the West Tyrone Brigade which has not split from the provos. That killed Donaldson.

Anyway if you're so smart what are you paying for Petrol?

MM

:rolleyes: . I love it when the know it alls come out.

The fact is that very few know anything or why he was shot.

One thing we do know is that the reporter in the Sunday World who revealed his location has played a major part in his murder as has the British Government/PSNI/UVF who have disowned him. Two wrongs don't make a right but I think not many tears will be shed outside of his family and friends. But the speculation will go on for along time.

If I know anything about Donegal Gardai this case will never be solved.

Freelancer

flogen wrote:

I think The Daily Ireland (soon to be The Daily Republican, or something), has highlighted either a degree of blind ignorance or an earlier print-deadline than other papers.

Or a "his master's voice" repeat of the party line.
Danny Morrison (No suprise) doesn't think the IRA did it
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/danny_morrison/2006/04/who_killed_denis_donaldson.html

I love the first comment (No one is considering Belgium)

no one had anything to gain by Donaldson's murder, as to the IRA timing angle, the IRA couldn't kill him before the leak was announced, that would signal a return to "Business as usual" and they certainly wouldn't consider killing him the immediate aftermath. Unionists would have nothing to gain, and if they wanted to kill a prominent IRA man, christ they're walking the streets of belfast and could be picked off as and when they choosed, and they haven't the resources or the ability to track a man down to an abandoned cottage in Donegal (could you imagine two Adair like characters roaming Donegal with their union jack tatoos on their arms shoving a photo of Donalison in the faces of locals "c'mere you seen 'im?". The "Brits" wouldn't have exposed him iif he had information to hurt them. Dissendent republicans? Aside from Donalison only hurt SF, dissdents not in SF don't have any reason to hurt him. No Its the IRA.

In traditional cold blooded style they waited till the furor died down, and they murdered him knowing that their mates in SF could have plausible denialibilty. Knowing that scum like Morrison would cover their tracks.