4x4s WHY?????????!!!!!!!!!

Owen

There was an editorial in Autocar last week about the British Government's plans to ban 4x4's from London City Centre. They made some very valid points? What exactly makes a SUV/4x4 evil?

If it's the 4x4 transmission, then the Subaru Impreza, Audi Quattros, BMW 325xcis and such should be banned too.

If it's the size, then MPV's should be banned too, a lot of MPV's are bigger than some SUVs.

If it's emmissions, than all classic cars should be removed from the road network, and a lot of newer cars too.

If it's pedestrian safety, then Vans should be taken off the road too. They have a woeful track record.

They surmised that it's probably just vote grabbing, and has no useful purpose whatsoever. And I agree.

TempestSabre

While I agree there are safety and enviromental issues with 4x4's. They tend to be the same as other vehicles with the same characteristics. They are also not the primary cause of accidents and deaths on our roads. There are similar if not worse enviromental issues with other vehicles as well. So if someone prefers to single out 4x4's then obviously theres another reason for doing it.

KELTICKNIGHTT

and the debate goes on,maybe you should hide in your houses as everything so bad for you:D

Anan1

TempestSabre wrote:

They are also not the primary cause of accidents and deaths on our roads. There are similar if not worse enviromental issues with other vehicles as well. So if someone prefers to single out 4x4's then obviously theres another reason for doing it.

I'm afraid that this argument doesn't really stand up. As we all know, there are many causes of accidents on our roads. All of these should be looked at, including SUVs.

godfather69er

TempestSabre wrote:

Maybe your view of the world is...'Americanized'

You simply made the point about height, nothing about bringing the kids to school. Either your point about height is valid or its a crock 'O'... If you are talking about bring kids to school, whats the safe alternative to a 4x4? A mini? A School Bus? Ummmm.

Fiat - maybe in the 80's that was true. But not now. Fiats produce some great cars with some cracking diesels. How are they overpriced? I would consider them some of the cheapest cars around, loaded with kit. Not a VW, but then you don't pay VW prices either. What are they over priced compared to? A Kia?



Does the Giugiaro Design Centre employ kids then?

scooby - How does dire fuel economy, high insurance, thief magnet make it a good exec/family car? How is using a Rally car a better use than a 4x4? A scooby as much a indulgence IMO.

if fiats are not free they are over priced coz they are crap. you pay for the name of vw for some reason.

i said a scooby was a better use of a 4x4 system.

and from a post previous i said the jeeps i was questioning where the 'school run' jeeps.

i drive a mini coz everybody in my family has before, i am learning so they are easier to learn in. and btw i am from dublin and if you have a jeep in kerry you have a use for it unlike here in dublin.
eh a safe alternative humm maybe a saab, volvo, renault any with a 5star ncap which is not a 5ton heap of junk.

if these people who 'drive' jeeps could be lisenced to drive a tank on the roads they would. funny how safety conscious they are, but when it comes to lil johnny wearing a helmet on his bike they have no problem dismissing them as too expensive etc

a good idea might be to train people who drive jeeps or to make them carry a certain type of license comparable to a van. people might feel safe in them but they show little safty to other road users when driving them.
as for mpvs what the **** what is the average family size these days two parents 3kids max what do you need a 7 seater for?? unless granny and grandad and the dog go everywhere???

the point about classic cars is acceptable, most are uneconomical but i find my mini is better on fuel than my dads handa civic 1400cc with all the jap gismos in it.

the thing about london is a great idea!!! listen
1. vans deliver stuff ( what to the majority of jeeps deliver.. ignorant dicks??)
2. mpvs, SHOULD be banned
3. emissions, there is talk of E.U banning classic cars anyway.(im ok im a 92)
4. pedestrian saftey anybody who walks into oncoming traffic deserves to be hit for being stupid

majority of stupid cyclists are motorists sick of waiting in traffic, i will signal when i turn but it is near impossible to turn right when on the roads look where the cycle lane is for god sake.
i think most cyclists behaviour on roads would improve if people were a bit more considerate to them, as i said before if you want to see how mental it is to cycle in a city do it!!!!its insane buses do be brushing my handle bars for god sake!!!

The Doktor

godfather69er wrote:

i drive a mini coz everybody in my family has before

So would it be fair to say, that if everyone in my family had a 4x4, it would in your opinion, be ok for me to drive one?

godfather69er

The Doktor wrote:

So would it be fair to say, that if everyone in my family had a 4x4, it would in your opinion, be ok for me to drive one?

i amnt justifying driving a mini with just that comment.
how the hell can you learn to drive in a jeep??
pilots learn first in cessnas not in a antonov225 or a boeing 747 or a A380

The Doktor

First thing I learnt to drive in was a Scania 142... didnt do me any harm

godfather69er

The Doktor wrote:

First thing I learnt to drive in was a Scania 142... didnt do me any harm

your just special

fits

godfather69er wrote:

a good idea might be to train people who drive jeeps or to make them carry a certain type of license comparable to a van.

Hmm... You can drive a van on a normal license.
Would you ever read up on the whole subject of emissions and all the rest and stop annoying everyone on here. Its blindingly obvious you dont have a clue, and you're just embarrassing yourself
4x4 drivers are no more annoying than nissan micra drivers, or exec merc drivers.. and actually are probably a little less annoying..

Gatster

they want to be high up to look down on people. (ignorant and snotty reflects on their personality)

Trendy.. well since i see them in american tv shows mostly driven by the sexy milf, this tells me that these people are so insecure that they have to spend all that money on a jeep to feel like a fictional american.
i suppose this is reinforced if you take a look at what they wear and the fake tan and hairstyle.

You really, really need to get a grip.

the thing about london is a great idea!!! listen
1. vans deliver stuff ( what to the majority of jeeps deliver.. ignorant dicks??)
2. mpvs, SHOULD be banned
3. emissions, there is talk of E.U banning classic cars anyway.(im ok im a 92)
4. pedestrian saftey anybody who walks into oncoming traffic deserves to be hit for being stupid

You've lived in London then, you understand the issues of driving/commuting around london?

colm_mcm

godfather69er wrote:

if fiats are not free they are over priced coz they are crap. you pay for the name of vw for some reason.

i said a scooby was a better use of a 4x4 system.

and from a post previous i said the jeeps i was questioning where the 'school run' jeeps.

i drive a mini coz everybody in my family has before, i am learning so they are easier to learn in. and btw i am from dublin and if you have a jeep in kerry you have a use for it unlike here in dublin.
eh a safe alternative humm maybe a saab, volvo, renault any with a 5star ncap which is not a 5ton heap of junk.

if these people who 'drive' jeeps could be lisenced to drive a tank on the roads they would. funny how safety conscious they are, but when it comes to lil johnny wearing a helmet on his bike they have no problem dismissing them as too expensive etc

a good idea might be to train people who drive jeeps or to make them carry a certain type of license comparable to a van. people might feel safe in them but they show little safty to other road users when driving them.
as for mpvs what the **** what is the average family size these days two parents 3kids max what do you need a 7 seater for?? unless granny and grandad and the dog go everywhere???

the point about classic cars is acceptable, most are uneconomical but i find my mini is better on fuel than my dads handa civic 1400cc with all the jap gismos in it.

the thing about london is a great idea!!! listen
1. vans deliver stuff ( what to the majority of jeeps deliver.. ignorant dicks??)
2. mpvs, SHOULD be banned
3. emissions, there is talk of E.U banning classic cars anyway.(im ok im a 92)
4. pedestrian saftey anybody who walks into oncoming traffic deserves to be hit for being stupid

majority of stupid cyclists are motorists sick of waiting in traffic, i will signal when i turn but it is near impossible to turn right when on the roads look where the cycle lane is for god sake.
i think most cyclists behaviour on roads would improve if people were a bit more considerate to them, as i said before if you want to see how mental it is to cycle in a city do it!!!!its insane buses do be brushing my handle bars for god sake!!!

I can't believe how much of an idiot you are. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about,

Firstly, your comment on Fiats illustrated your limited knowledge of cars and their history, you have obviously never heard of iconic cars such as the original Fiat 500 or the awesome Fiat Coupe. When someone buys an Italian car such as a Fiat, Alfa or Lancia, they know that they're not going to get Japanese build quality or German ergonamics, what they get is something that cars from the afforementioned countries generally lack, that is soul, and a relatively small price tag.

You then go on to recommend a complete pile of ****e (Renault) as a good alternative!

You are a fan of Subarus, yet you are concerned about emissions?

Next, you question the need for MPV's! some kids have friends, and MPVs come in handy if said kids and their friends need to go to the same place at the same time (eg. school, swimming, soccer,)

Finally, I want to know how old you are, and whether you actually drive on public roads?

You've obviously listened to some arguments and cherry-picked the contraversial bits to appear clever

TempestSabre

Anan1 wrote:

I'm afraid that this argument doesn't really stand up. As we all know, there are many causes of accidents on our roads. All of these should be looked at, including SUVs.

With the current lack of enforcement how practical is that?

colm_mcm

SUVs are here to stay. cars don't cause accidents, people do. Educating and diciplining drivers and improving our roads is the only way to reduce fatalities. Going on witch-hunts won't solve anything

TempestSabre

godfather69er wrote:

your just special

I learnt in a van. Loads of torque, great elevated view of the road, much easier to learn in that driving a mini. In fact very much like driving a 4x4.

No point in continuing this though, its nonsensical at this point.

maidhc

This thread is a silly place. :rolleyes:

godfather69er

well if i dont drive on public roads where the **** do i drive, maybe use all 5m of my driveway???

dont accuse me of being an idiot, as your the one who cant read or 'cherry picks arguments' you say i care about emissions where earlier i just said that i dont give a **** about emissions.maybe you should start from page one you dope.

my age is of irrelavence to the discussion, but apparantly i have the mental age of 12.

and no i clearly said i live in dublin so that would imply that i dont live in london??!!!!
but i can imagine london is a little bit like dublin.

as for my knowlede of cars, anything built in former USSR or the Mezzogiornio or cars that are iconic for being a heap of crap i dont give a **** about.(funny how the lada was a improved fiat)
however i could tell you a heap of crap about minis and how to modify a car without making it look like a muppetmobile. but i dont think i have the time coz i have to go back to studying for my leaving cert...oh **** just gave away my age ah well...............

Capt'n Midnight

colm_mcm wrote:

SUVs are here to stay. cars don't cause accidents, people do. Educating and diciplining drivers and improving our roads is the only way to reduce fatalities. Going on witch-hunts won't solve anything

US statistics rate SUV's no safer than other cars of similar price.
Most reversing over children accidents happen with them
Other motorists are six times as likely to die if they collide with an SUV as with a car. So even if you assume the accident rate stays the same the death rate amongst OTHERS goes up.

Another pet het.
The sooner they nail 4x4 / SUV / VAN drivers with uncovered trailers doing more than 50mph the better..

We should be driving electric/diesel hybrids,sized to usage, but it's not like our government is going to help facilitate that in any meaningful way.

colm_mcm

godfather69er wrote:

dont accuse me of being an idiot, as your the one who cant read or 'cherry picks arguments' you say i care about emissions where earlier i just said that i dont give a **** about emissions.maybe you should start from page one you dope.

Page one:

godfather69er wrote:

i need enlightenment on the explosion of these things.
1.why do you need one in dublin???
2.what are emissions like on them
3. how economical are they
4.why, from what i can see do arrogant, ignorant pricks drive em??
5. why are they 85% of the time on the grass verge or footpath.
6. are they v6,v8?? >2L????

As far as I can see, No.2 seems to suggest that you are concerned about emissions of 4X4's...............

godfather69er wrote:

my age is of irrelavence to the discussion, but apparantly i have the mental age of 12.

I think "obviously" would be a better word than "apparently"

godfather69er wrote:

as for my knowlede of cars, anything built in former USSR or the Mezzogiornio or cars that are iconic for being a heap of crap i dont give a **** about.(funny how the lada was a improved fiat)

Not particularly funny that the Lada was an improved Fiat!

Fiat struck a deal with Avto Vaz in the late 60s, Avto Vaz got to manufacture a car that russian people were crying out for. something that would be cheap to own and repair. (Think Beetle, 2CV, MINI) Using old tooling from the Fiat 124, and after modifying suspension to russian needs, and using thicker steel for the body they went on to make massive amounts of them, even after they were well past their sell-by date (remind you of anything?)

What Fiat got out of the deal was massive amounts of Russian steel, this led to rust problems as a lot of the steel provided was reclaimed. (common enough at the time even on small british cars...)

The Lada was cheap and nasty for a reason. It was built to a budget, as all "peoples cars" are.

KELTICKNIGHTT

why guys are you wasting you time with him
he knows everything and hes a do gooder,at least he thinks he is
all you doing with him going around in circles with him

colm_mcm

it's fun to read his replies though, contradicting himself over and over!

KELTICKNIGHTT

guess its better comedy here than on tv at moment
good for laugh:D

colm_mcm

must be gone to bed, school tomorrow!

KELTICKNIGHTT

learning about car,4x4 ,van for tomorrow on thread and o ye the leaving cert

vannistelrooy10

colm_mcm wrote:

Page one:

As far as I can see, No.2 seems to suggest that you are concerned about emissions of 4X4's...............


I think "obviously" would be a better word than "apparently"




Not particularly funny that the Lada was an improved Fiat!

Fiat struck a deal with Avto Vaz in the late 60s, Avto Vaz got to manufacture a car that russian people were crying out for. something that would be cheap to own and repair. (Think Beetle, 2CV, MINI) Using old tooling from the Fiat 124, and after modifying suspension to russian needs, and using thicker steel for the body they went on to make massive amounts of them, even after they were well past their sell-by date (remind you of anything?)

What Fiat got out of the deal was massive amounts of Russian steel, this led to rust problems as a lot of the steel provided was reclaimed. (common enough at the time even on small british cars...)

The Lada was cheap and nasty for a reason. It was built to a budget, as all "peoples cars" are.

YOU ARE A MUPPET

listen to yourself for **** sake, the lad has a point and all you do is mock him at least he isnt in a turbo glanza street racing with a L plate on. and he hasnt lost his head with you all which i cant understand.

from what i have read you are the one contradicting and misquoting . he said that he 'doesnt give a **** about emissions and would happily drive a 69 7l v8 mustang.

he knows alot more than you..sure any muppet can google info on a car and edit their thread with a lilttle copy and paste.
doesnt say much for you if he has the mental age of ten. and when you are old i hope you get hit with a hyundai santa fe mk9 and are left on a machine coz you are a muppet. and at least he is getting a education you dont seem to have anything else to do other than mock people on the internet, sure anyone can do that. if you were in front of me id spit in your face.

maidhc

Is this a sustained attack by the LC forum or something?

Time for locking and banning I hope!

mike65

And with that thought we close.

Mike.