Does VRT Change Based on Demand

kluivert

padraigmyers wrote:

I am bringing in a BMW next week. The OMSP on this car is €22'250 (up €215 on the printout from 8 days ago!), yet I have enquired through a BMW dealer who says that the value is roughly €20k.

I am going to get the insurance valuation, book valuation (the bible that trade-ins and insurance claims are valued by) and the BMW dealers valuation in writing and challenge the OMSP (either when at the VRO office, or if they won't acknowledge the valuation through the appeals procedure after I have paid the VRT). I will post here on my progress.

I'd encourage anybody else who has the time to try this as well, if we can't eliminate this illegal tax (and also a double tax since its calculated post VAT), then we should at least challenge the constant over-valuation and random raising of the OMSP that the VRO office sems to be currently engaged in.

Power to the people!!

I am totally behind you on this one. Am looking to import a car from England in the summer Vectra or Mondeo. Let us know how it goes for you.

Mc-BigE

is there a website were you can get Irish book prices to compare against OSMP figures? like www.parkers.co.uk were they give you UK trade prices as well as showroom prices?

5500

Here's a reply i got from the vro'd complaints deparment regarding the daily price hikes in teh car i was looking at..........


I refer to your recent complaint with regard to Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) quotations.

I have contacted the Central Vehicle Office in Rosslare Harbour and am advised as follows:



The relevant legislation provides that the VRT on a category A or B vehicle is to be charged at the rate of a percentage of the Open Market Selling Price of the vehicle at the time of registration.



Open Market Selling Price (“OMSP”) means, in the case of a vehicle other than a new vehicle, the price, inclusive of all taxes and duties, which, in the opinion of the Commissioners, the vehicle, including any enhancements or accessories fitted or attached thereto or sold therewith, might reasonably be expected to fetch on a first arm's length sale thereof in the State by retail. It follows that Revenue is obliged to review often, and if necessary to amend, the values on the VRT system so that they correspond with the market.



As regards entitlement to a quotation given other than on the date of registration your attention is drawn to Note 1 on the VRT Enquiry quotation which states “The amount above is that payable on the date of enquiry. A different amount may be payable if the rate or the Open Market Selling Price are altered”.



In the event that you pay VRT, it is open to you to appeal the amount charged outlining your case and citing any VRT quotation upon which you relied.


Yours faithfully,





Noel Smith



Internal Review Unit.

So basically in a nice way there saying,tough ****,pay the money and then try get it back by appealing!

Our man in Havana

eireal wrote:

So basically in a nice way there saying,tough ****,pay the money and then try get it back by appealing!

And you just know how well an appeal will go. A waste of time imho.

padraigmyers

Does anyone know anyone who has appealed their VRT?
How did they get on?

kluivert

The high have ordered the Revenue to realise data to UCII - Used Car Importers of Ireland about VRT calculations.

There is no problem with VRT on new means of vehicles but VRT on second hand used cars are very inconsistent, based on "unpublished" data tables.

Big praise for the UCII for this fight.

WizZard

padraigmyers wrote:

I am bringing in a BMW next week. The OMSP on this car is €22'250 (up €215 on the printout from 8 days ago!), yet I have enquired through a BMW dealer who says that the value is roughly €20k.

I am going to get the insurance valuation, book valuation (the bible that trade-ins and insurance claims are valued by) and the BMW dealers valuation in writing and challenge the OMSP (either when at the VRO office, or if they won't acknowledge the valuation through the appeals procedure after I have paid the VRT). I will post here on my progress.

I'd encourage anybody else who has the time to try this as well, if we can't eliminate this illegal tax (and also a double tax since its calculated post VAT), then we should at least challenge the constant over-valuation and random raising of the OMSP that the VRO office sems to be currently engaged in.

Power to the people!!

Keep us informed of your progress. I'm thinking of importing a second hand BMW M Series too and the VRT is almost 75% of what I would be paying for it abroad!

BnA

I've just spotted another huge jump

Whenever I get a quote I slap it into an excel sheet that I have to calculate total cost etc... so I have a record of most of the quotes I have got.

About 6 weeks ago I got a quote for a 1998 BMW 318 IS Coupe with 70k miles. The Open Market Selling Value was €6,372 and the VRT €1,593

Today I got a quote for another '98 BMW 318 IS Coupe, this time with 90k miles. The Open Market Selling Value has risen a massive 45% to €9,235 and the VRT has risen to €2,308

I brought in a 99 one in January and I only paid €1948 on it.

unkel

padraigmyers wrote:

Power to the people!!

Indeed

I'm glad there are some stirrings starting


BTW, just checked and the C4 is still €4,570

5500

If i can find the shagging car to take in ill sure as hell try and appeal it.

Ive yet to hear of anyone appealing on any forums so far tho so im unaware how much of a chance you actually stand with it

Mc-BigE

I appealed my VRT last year; I brought in a 99 Audi S4 in Apr05. The VRT was a staggering 5100 euros!, however the following month it had dropped to 4300 euros!!, and I also had to do repair work to the Exhaust Manifolds which
Meant engine needed to be removed!! $$$$ I kept all receipts, and appealed in writing detailing all that I mentioned above and photocopies of bills to fix the manifolds (which where expensive!) The main object is to prove that the car was imported with the fault and therefore the car is worth less than the OSMP quoted for a PMO Audi S4.

To be honest I was more upset about the VRT drop than the repair bill (even though the bill was more than the difference in vrt!) and it was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak, but the vrt office give me back 450 euros mainly for the repairs with no mention of the drop in VRT! (probably to shut me up!)

Bottom line if you need to do repairs on an imported car make sure you keep receipts but also there’s a time limit 2 months from date of importation I think.

AMurphy

smarty wrote:

On another thread this morning there were discussing VRT increasing based on the demand on the Revenues website. ......

Thanks.

It's directly related to the demand for MB and Executive Jets for TD's and their not-so civil servants, that demand is accelerating, so you know which way VRT will err.

Dilbert75

I noticed the same thing - for ages I've been looking at 99/00 Octavia petrols. Up to recently, 99's were valued at €3.7k with 00's valued at €4.75k. Now the 99's are valued at nearly €4.7k, with 00's valued at around €5.9k. I've been checking prices on individual cars quite a bit but there must be something else going on. The one thing I'd say is that the market seems to be in or around where the Revenue website is pricing them.

Mc-BigE

Dilbert75 wrote:

The one thing I'd say is that the market seems to be in or around where the Revenue website is pricing them.

Too be honest the OMSP seems to be lower than what garages want for the equivalent car's , i realise its a book price and not a garage price but sometimes its lower by a lot. suppose it depends on the car.

Next time your going to buy a second hand car from a garage or private in ireland, bring along a VRT printout of the same car and quote the OMSP to them and see the reaction on there faces!:eek:

5500

Is the OMSP on the Vrt site the price there putting the car at on the road Vrt inclusive or there indication before vrt and tax added?

padraigmyers

eireal wrote:

Is the OMSP on the Vrt site the price there putting the car at on the road Vrt inclusive or there indication before vrt and tax added?

On 2nd hand cars the OMSP is the on the road price (so that would be VRT included), so you are playing 30% of the OMSP which includes VRT, therefore a double taxation. Its unbeliviable that the goverment are getting away with this tax.

Mc-BigE

padraigmyers wrote:

so you are paying 30% of the OMSP which includes VRT, therefore a double taxation. It’s unbelievable that the government are getting away with this tax.

Unfortunately we all need to drive cars, (lets not mention the state /cost of public transport! that’s for another thread) so we all need Irish Reg. Plates on our cars, so the government can do what they want and get away with it!:mad:
It’s like cigarettes and drink, as long as people need them, the government will tax them more and more.

It’s also to do with the Irish people, we seem to be very good at rolling over and taking it! Imagine if the French government did this? There would be people kicking down the Front door to the French Parliament and torching the place!

Next time a TD comes to your door asking you to vote for him, ask him if his party will scrap VRT , they will probably promise you the world, if they say "yes" vote for them under the condition that if they dont get rid of it you won't vote for them next time around.

smarty

I just checked the price again, and it is still €4,570, which got me thinking.

Could it be that the VRT people monitor the number of cars registered rather than the number of requests input into the site. This would make more sense.

sector

smarty wrote:

I just checked the price again, and it is still €4,570, which got me thinking.

Could it be that the VRT people monitor the number of cars registered rather than the number of requests input into the site. This would make more sense.

I would say obviously yes of course.

ando

Mc-BigE wrote:

The VRT was a staggering 5100 euros!, however the following month it had dropped to 4300 euros!!

ah that must have been a kick in the teeth when you found that out. I would dearly love to have an inside view as to how they can just drop vrt 800 euro, what and who makes that decision. Someone on boards must know someone that has the opportunity to ask about this and get definitive answers. Im anxious that I'll get a price from the vrt website, go to the uk, buy a car and bring it back only to be hit with €1000 extra that I was not expecting onto the bill

5500

padraigmyers wrote:

On 2nd hand cars the OMSP is the on the road price (so that would be VRT included), so you are playing 30% of the OMSP which includes VRT, therefore a double taxation. Its unbeliviable that the goverment are getting away with this tax.

So if the car comes up as 7000 as the omsp on the ros site then thats a rough guide as to what you should be paying for the car all in?I bet a dealer would have none of that as a price comparison!

padraigmyers

eireal wrote:

So if the car comes up as 7000 as the omsp on the ros site then thats a rough guide as to what you should be paying for the car all in?I bet a dealer would have none of that as a price comparison!

Not sure what you are saying here. Most cars are valued pretty much at what you can buy them off a dealer for, Audi's seam to be a little under-valued, BMW's a little over valued. But that is the idea of OMSP, its meant to be the cost that you would buy the equivilant car in Ireland for all in.

5500

I mean when you get the vrt quote and it states the omsp,thats the price that you should be paying for the car all in on the road yes?in the case of the civic im looking at there 8500omsp on the site,10000 from a private seller inc vrt or 11 from a dealer in some cases - for a 99 car!

smarty

sector wrote:

I would say obviously yes of course.

The original question was whether VRT changes "based on the demand on the Revenues website". That is what we have been trying to prove, but thats for your answer.