Alfa or Nissan

Lord Spence

I am looking at buying a car in the next month and was looking at two in particular the Alfa 156 (01-02) or a new style Nissan Primera (02).

The Alfa I can get for around 8k but the nissan will set me back 12k. I heard bad things about the Alfa but also spoke with a few owners that have never had a problem.

Any advice on which one would be the best buy, I heard the Alfa is a great drive but the Nissan is supposed to be more reliable.

Any advice would be great

Eoin

Lord Spence wrote:

I am looking at buying a car in the next month and was looking at two in particular the Alfa 156 (01-02) or a new style Nissan Primera (02).

The Alfa I can get for around 8k but the nissan will set me back 12k. I heard bad things about the Alfa but also spoke with a few owners that have never had a problem.

Any advice on which one would be the best buy, I heard the Alfa is a great drive but the Nissan is supposed to be more reliable.

Any advice would be great

Hi,

A common debate here - check out this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=223438

And scroll down to the "The Alfa Romeo Thread Collective" part - there are a few links to previously discussions here about Alfas.

Or even just search "Alfa 156" on the forum, and you will get loads of results.

Eoin

PS - my '00 156 is going up on Carzone this evening

unkel

This one is easy:

1. Buy the Alfa

2. Put €2k saved in a fixed term bankaccount so it'll earn you a bit of interest. You'll need it again when you come to sell as the Alfa depreciates more

3. Put the other €2k saved into a separate bankaccount and pay for unforeseen repairs should they arise

4. Drive a nicer car better in every way without it costing you a cent more

redman

unkel wrote:

This one is easy:

1. Buy the Alfa

2. Put €2k saved in a fixed term bankaccount so it'll earn you a bit of interest. You'll need it again when you come to sell as the Alfa depreciates more

3. Put the other €2k saved into a separate bankaccount and pay for unforeseen repairs should they arise

4. Drive a nicer car better in every way without it costing you a cent more

My sentiments exactly, just get the Alfa checked out properly.

RobAMerc

I'd say drive them both first.
If that doesn't sway you, then you'd be better off with the Nissan as you'd have to have a bit of petrol in the veins to keep the Alfa from being disappointing.

RoundyMooney

unkel wrote:

This one is easy:

1. Buy the Alfa

2. Put €2k saved in a fixed term bankaccount so it'll earn you a bit of interest. You'll need it again when you come to sell as the Alfa depreciates more

3. Put the other €2k saved into a separate bankaccount and pay for unforeseen repairs should they arise

4. Drive a nicer car better in every way without it costing you a cent more

That's a very sensible approach. The Alfa is a better drive, no question, and the nest egg is your insurance against the sad likelihood that repairs will be necessary at some point. It all depends on how long you'll hold the car anyway, but buy very carefully, and make sure at the very least that the variator and timing belt have been attended to...

On point 4 above, I wouldn't say better in *every* way, but that's another debate

Eoin

unkel wrote:

2. Put €2k saved in a fixed term bankaccount so it'll earn you a bit of interest. You'll need it again when you come to sell as the Alfa depreciates more

At 8K, the previous owner has pretty much taken the brunt of the depreciation anyway - from my experience, it's at about the 3-4 year stage where it really loses market value quickly

Anan1

Just make absolutely certain that the Alfa has been properly serviced, and that it has had a cambelt at 36k miles. Personally speaking, I wouldn't buy one that had not been looked after by either TI Autos or Alasta. If properly maintained, they're a fabulous car. My mother has a 98 one with over 110,000 miles, and it's still running like a Swiss watch.

ds20prefecture

I'm a rabid Alfa fan, but the 02 Primera is a good car. It is a lot roomier than the Alfa, has a better ride and more gadgets. Like any complex machine, they are prone to failure, but less so than the Alfa (based solely on the no-smoke-without-fire principal). The Alfa is much prettier and has livelier performance for a given engine size, but it is also thristier. Personally, I like the primera's quirky looks.

I suppose it is down to what you want from the car. A bit of style, a bit of go and a bit of petrol head kudos? Then follow Unkel's advice and pick the Alfa. Space, practicality and lower running costs? The Primera.

Lex Luthor

If the Alfa does not have a full service history, then let us know the mileage and I'll be able to tell you how much you need to set aside for the first month of ownership.

Personally speaking, I hate all things Nissan except the X-Trail and the 300ZX, so I would take the Alfa. What is the spec on the Alfa?

pburns

I disagree with almost all the sentiments posted above. I'm as much of a petrol-head as pretty much anyone here & I appreciate fully what the Alfa stands for. I've had the same debate myself - Alfa 146/156 or Mazda.

The Alfa only makes sense IF you're a car enthusiast and are prepared to put up with the hassles that are MUCH more likely to arise with the Italian car. A piggy-bank with 2 grand for repairs? What good is that when the Alfa is off the road & you're on shanks mare?

The Nissan, if looked after, will go on for ever. Look at what the taxi-drivers have...

Eoin

pburns wrote:

The Alfa only makes sense IF you're a car enthusiast and are prepared to put up with the hassles that are MUCH more likely to arise with the Italian car. A piggy-bank with 2 grand for repairs? What good is that when the Alfa is off the road & you're on shanks mare?

That's a little bit of an exaggeration in fairness. It's not as if you will be in your garage under the car the whole time. I have had mine for two years & two months now - without one problem. I am not an "enthusiast" as such, I have just done what any car owner should do, and check the oil levels etc on a regular basis.

Sizzler

Lord Spence wrote:

I am looking at buying a car in the next month and was looking at two in particular the Alfa 156 (01-02) or a new style Nissan Primera (02).

The Alfa I can get for around 8k but the nissan will set me back 12k. I heard bad things about the Alfa but also spoke with a few owners that have never had a problem.

Any advice on which one would be the best buy, I heard the Alfa is a great drive but the Nissan is supposed to be more reliable.

Any advice would be great

Theres a reason the Alfa is 4k cheaper Great styling but tend to become rickety and unreliable after 3-4 yrs so Id stay clear if I were you. I just sold a primera after having one for 4 yrs and can honestly say it never gave me a moments bother, TOTR car all round.

Eoin

Sizzler wrote:

Theres a reason the Alfa is 4k cheaper Great styling but tend to become rickety and unreliable after 3-4 yrs so Id stay clear if I were you.

What are you basing that on? Something you heard from someone you know who knows someone who had one?

unkel

pburns wrote:

The Nissan, if looked after, will go on for ever

Yeah, yeah. Anything Jap will go on for ever and any Alfa will spend it's life in the garage...

I actually owned a Primera myself for about 2.5 years. Bought it when it was 3 years old (low mileage). It was a surprisingly good drivers car but I had plenty of problems with it although the car had a full Nissan SH, maintained during my ownership

eoin_s wrote:

At 8K, the previous owner has pretty much taken the brunt of the depreciation anyway

True. The Alfa is still to loose half it's current value again though over the next two years or so

kyote00

I own a 96 Toyota Carina (1.6SLI with 140k miles) and a '99 156 (v6 with 80k) - both from new.

The carina has been much cheaper on regular maintenance (service costs) and less has gone wrong with it over the nearly 10 years I have had it. Much like the Primera, its a souless A2B vechicle that will also be there.

The alfa is a superb car to drive, stunning handling and will be a future classic. Service costs are more (even using TI-Autos) and I have had to replace some parts in the last year.
Clutch at Alasta cost me over 1k
Timing belt is about 600-700e
Normal service (on v6) is about 300e

Good advice above: get a alfa specialist to look at it. if it hasnt had the timing belt, variator, front wishbones, front rotors done - ask why ?

If you want a reliable A2B vehicle, get the Nissan otherwise the Alfa....

(Once the 159 goes mainstream in Ireland, I guess the 156 will drop in price even more)

Sizzler

eoin_s wrote:

What are you basing that on? Something you heard from someone you know who knows someone who had one?

My mate is a fleet manager for a well known organisation and he stopped buying them for the company as one dude just said, they spend more time getting glued back together after a few yrs then they do out on the road. Italians know how to style, thats as far as it goes!

I have to say from whence they came out I always noticed how shaky the exhaust was on a 156...next time you pull up beside one look at it shake rattle and roll!

Phone.Book

unkel wrote:

I actually owned a Primera myself for about 2.5 years. Bought it when it was 3 years old (low mileage). It was a surprisingly good drivers car but

And for every one Nissan car like that there's 10 newer Alfa cars worse than that. You only have to look at ANY of the compiled car fault data over the years to see that Alfa is way way way behind Nissan! Thats a fact now point to any data were Nissan is behind Alfa for reliability

It comes down to want you want, do you want to take a chance with a nice looking car and hope you don't have any major problems or go with an ok looking car that will most likely give you no problems.

The choice is yours... tick tock tick tock... ...

unkel

Don't forget the same year Alfa is €4k cheaper. That is well more than you can expect it to cost extra compared with the Primera in servicing, repairs and depreciation over a couple of years even in a bad case scenario imho

Eoin

Sizzler wrote:

My mate is a fleet manager for a well known organisation and he stopped buying them for the company as one dude just said, they spend more time getting glued back together after a few yrs then they do out on the road. Italians know how to style, thats as far as it goes!

And B.O.I. stopped buying Volvos a few years ago but allowed Alfas. Still, all I can go on is 2 years of problem free motoring, my father's 8 years of problem free motoring, and the vast majority of other 156 drivers I have spoken to.

Sizzler wrote:

I have to say from whence they came out I always noticed how shaky the exhaust was on a 156...next time you pull up beside one look at it shake rattle and roll!

I have noticed that on all of them - is this in itself a problem, or if it has been known to lead to other problems? Or is it something that you noticed on this car that doesn't seem right to you (that you may not have noticed on any other marque)?

Yes, the 156 requires a small bit more maintenance than a jap wagon, but as I said earlier, it really is only a glance over the fluids regularly. Yes, the depreciation is a killer, but that works both ways - there are some absolute bargains to be had out there.

Anyhow, this is yet another Alfa thread that is going to go around in circles over 5 pages, with the same old cliches being trotted out. I'm just surprised that we haven't from the usual Kings of Anti-Alfa Hyperbole by now.

Just to be daring, can I suggest that people who own or have owned a Nissan Primera comment on that, and the people who have owned or own a 156 comment on that, and let the OP make his own mind up?

ds20prefecture

Phone.Book wrote:

The choice is yours... tick tock tick tock... ...

Whoooooo!!! Live in fear!! You don't read the Indo by any chance do you? Which Alfa did you own, or are you just some nodding buffoon who's charging along with the rest of the herd?

ds20prefecture

Sizzler wrote:

I have to say from whence they came out I always noticed how shaky the exhaust was on a 156...next time you pull up beside one look at it shake rattle and roll!

3 years. 45000 miles. Never had an exhaust (or any other) problem. Again Sizzler - which Alfa did you own? No wait, don't tell me - your uncle's dog's great-aunt's ex-girlfriend heard about someone who once said all Alfas are crap, and you've accepted it as gospel.

Back on-thread - depending on what you're after, this could be one of those rare instances where the Alfa is not the best car to have.

RoundyMooney

Ya see, now you've gone and done it. I'm as impartial as the next bloke, and try to see both sides of a debate. However, throwing insults at someone who can see the wood, the trees and the birds nesting therein is just plain daft. I've an opinion, you've an opinion, that other guy has an opinion. I don't see either him or me throwing little digs because we don't fall into line and proclaim Alfa the Italian BMW, (which it is a long way from becoming).

Back on track- www.honestjohn.co.uk is a good and unbiased resource OP.

From there:

Alfa 156

What's Bad
Police Alert' spoilers optional on Sport 2 and Sport 3 spec will attract plod. Sub-20 mpg fuel consumption of V6 if you boot it. Trim quality not up to BMW standards. 5-speed gearchange on 1.8 and 2.0 can feel a bit floppy. Turn-in not as sharp as Peugeot 306 GTi-6 or even 406 2.0 litre Coupe. Usual Alfa build-quality problems with electrics. Fuel enrichment device may stick, leading to poor starting. Dealers are a very mixed bag. Resale values fell heavily in early 2000 even before price cuts. V6 and JDT can eat front tyres on the inside edge (need realiging with less toe-out). Paint problems with solid lacquered black. Worrying number of 2.0 litre engine failures due to oil starvation when engines were full of oil points a finger at oil pump failure. Timing belts and tensioners need changing way before scheduled 72k miles. See TSB to change them at 36k. Very useful site for tips and fault finding: www.alfa156.net Air conditioning condensor vulnerable to stone damage. Bosch 'hot film' Mass Airflow Sensors seem to be failing regularly. FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001. 9th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. 18th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. Alfa Romeo had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index Joint fourth bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 74 cars surveyed. Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999. Only 87% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey. Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 155.10 v/s lowest 31.93). 98-2000 average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems; 2001-2003 average for breakdowns and poor for problems and faults in 2003 Which survey. 7th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. 156 8th bottom model and Alfa Romeo bottom marque in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. Alfa Romeo 5th bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining average cost of repair of £392.88 with high 39.55 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk Came 16th from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 74.7%

Nissan Primera IV

What's Bad
Handling of 1.8 SVE is far from brilliant and engine lacks power. Using TV screen alone to reverse can be disorientating. (There have been a few bumps.) Sudden poor running of petrol engines or failure to start due to crankshaft sensor malfunction (seems to be vulnerable to dirt or water ingress: see recalls). Doors have no rubbing strip and are prone to supermarket dings. Cable controlling injection when turbo cuts in was too short on 2003MY cars and consequently could break. Timing chain tensioner problems on 2.2 diesels, same as X-Trail. Best to change the oil and filter twice as often as Nissan recommends.

A slight imbalance, no?

junkyard

I'd buy the Nissan if you want a reliable everyday car that won't cost a fortune to run. As you can see from the other Alfa threads there are some people who hate them, like me, as I found from personal experience that they cost me a fortune, i.e. depreciation, high maintenance cost and generally unreliable. I bought one out of curiosity to see what all the hype was about. Sure, they're not a bad car to drive but they're nothing special. People who I know that drive them think they were making some kind of statement that they weren't run of the mill, that they were in a league of they're own, like Saab or Lancia owners, and they actually are, they put image over everything else. They seem to me to be blinded by the designer image and put image above everything else. Personally I'd prefer a car that is reliable. nice to drive and doesn't fall apart.
Some of you pro-Alfa guys should be selling Alfa's, your obviously convinced.

Eoin

Oh for f*cks sake, this is getting tedious beyond belief.

junkyard

I think if anyone wants information on Alfa-Romeos in future they should be referred to the previous Alfa threads. Its obvious here that some people can see no wrong in them and some no right.

RoundyMooney

junkyard wrote:

Some of you pro-Alfa guys should be selling Alfa's, your obviously convinced.

Or buying them!



We should have a thunderdome thread, or a child forum on motors for these endless debates...

I can actually see merit in Alfas, if you know what you're signing up for. There are people who collect Allegros! What gets me, is the fact that people can't hold an opinion, without being referred to say, as a nodding buffoon...

Eoin

RoundyMooney wrote:

I don't see either him or me throwing little digs because we don't fall into line and proclaim Alfa the Italian BMW, (which it is a long way from becoming).

But people DO throw digs by saying that we Alfa drivers put image over everything else. Constant little sniping remarks like that over numerous threads are going to get that kind of reaction.

I am sorry, but the "fall into line" comment is just ridiculous - Alfa drivers are the people who don't fall into line and proclaim ourselves moronic for driving a car that must have broken down 20 times without us even knowing it.

Eoin

junkyard wrote:

I think if anyone wants information on Alfa-Romeos in future they should be referred to the previous Alfa threads.

Agreed, which is why I sent Mike65 the list of Alfa threads that are in the sticky, but like a fool I get drawn into the argument each time.

junkyard wrote:

Its obvious here that some people can see no wrong in them and some no right.

No, we can see the bad in them - and have plainly stated the problems we have had with them. People just don't seem to want to believe positive first hand experiences.

To the Original Poster: I am sorry your thread got hijacked somewhat - I would love to say we are not normally like this. That would be telling porkies though...

junkyard

eoin_s wrote:

But people DO throw digs by saying that we Alfa drivers put image over everything else. Constant little sniping remarks like that over numerous threads are going to get that kind of reaction.

I am sorry, but the "fall into line" comment is just ridiculous - Alfa drivers are the people who don't fall into line and proclaim ourselves moronic for driving a car that must have broken down 20 times without us even knowing it.

The proof is everywhere! Alfas break down and fall apart. If yours and a few others here haven't then your very lucky.

Eoin

junkyard wrote:

The proof is everywhere! Alfas break down and fall apart. If yours and a few others here haven't then your very lucky.

Yet not one lottery win for poor me to date. Perhaps I used up all luck with my Alfa - or maybe you are over stating your point. Again.

Anyhow, I am not actually that pushed on what you think about Alfas so I am going to take my leave for the evening. Please wish me luck when driving over the weekend - you never know when my amazing car related luck will run out.

Ta ta.