Weekend Premiership fixtures - ( may contain scores )

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

Source? Curbs certainly doesn't mention a refusal to train in the interview you mentioned. Murphy made it clear he wanted to move when Spurs came in for him, plain and simple.

http://www.cafc.co.uk/newsview.ink?nid=23417

Spurs came in for him at the end of January, he was being linked with Newcastle for most of the month before that. According to Curbs, that's what unsettled him.

Pretty much the same comments made by Murphy when he chose Charlton over Spurs two years previous, I wonder did Curbs have a go at him then? Or is Curbs just doing now what you'd expect him to do, defending his club?

Fact is, Spurs are a bigger side than Charlton. Recent league record aside, we've a bigger fanbase (our season ticket holders would come close to filling the home end at the Valley, and we've another 10.5k home seats at WHL, full every week), more financial clout and more chance of attracting good players. We also don't have to bribe our fans with free travel to Boro for a FA Cup QF replay (12,000 applications for tickets for our tie away to WBA last season speaks volumes for the clubs support)

I'm pleased to see you jump to the defence of your fellow Spurs' fan. However, he was still very mistaken about Murphy not getting his place at Charlton. Danny Murphy was always an integral part of Charlton's plans, until he made it clear he wanted to go. From the article:

"When you bring a player into a club and you fit a system around him and give him an opportunity to go out and express himself, you do feel very disappointed, and I'm sure the fans do too, with some of the comments he made regarding Spurs and ourselves.

I was wrong about Spurs' interest unsettling him alright. Maybe it was Newcastle but where did he end up, Spurs or Newcastle? I wouldn't blame him for ending up at Spurs though, Souness was still Newcastle manager at that stage

Even if Spurs are a bigger club, you can tell from that article that Curbs isn't too happy with Murphy. He continually mentions how Danny made it clear he wanted to go eg. he started acting too big for his boots, like I said. From the article:

But when the Tottenham thing reared up he made it quite clear that he wanted to go there. Just because a player wants to leave a club doesn't necessarily mean that he goes, but he forced the issue a little bit and kept on at it - we're all very disappointed.

"During the last month, I made six changes to the team for Arsenal and he was kept in the side and got himself sent off. After that, he went up to Everton and played poorly. I didn't think he was in the right frame of mind for us, I told him that and he agreed.

Curbs sounds very disheartened with it all in both of those quotes. Murphy doesn't sound too have acted too honourably either.

"And if Martin Jol decides that he's never going to leave him out of the side then it'll be a great move for him because he wasn't happy with that when he got left out of the side here".

If he wasn't too happy sitting on the bench for a game or two at Charlton, how does he feel now?

Like I said, I've no time for players that act like primadonnas. I've no problem with players moving to further their careers, especially if its in the interest of the club too (eg. Duff at Blackburn). Murphy thought he was too big for Charlton though, started acting the maggot and I'm happy to see him rot on the bench now at Spurs.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

I'm pleased to see you jump to the defence of your fellow Spurs' fan. However, he was still very mistaken about Murphy not getting his place at Charlton. Danny Murphy was always an integral part of Charlton's plans, until he made it clear he wanted to go.

I wasn't defending Eamo, he's big enough to do that himself. I was correcting a factual inacuracy. I'll reply to the rest of you post when I get home from work, I'm due back in a few minutes so don't have the time now.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Danny Murphy was always an integral part of Charlton's plans, until he made it clear he wanted to go.

From your own source, his last game for Chrlton was January 2nd. He joined Spurs at the end of January, and they only came in for him at the last minute. By Curbishley's own admission, he only expressed a desire to leave after Spurs made an approach for him. Allowing for a few days negotiation, he was dropped at least three weeks before he made it clear he wanted to go.

Lemlin wrote:

I was wrong about Spurs' interest unsettling him alright.

You were also wrong about him refusing to train.

Lemlin wrote:

Maybe it was Newcastle but where did he end up, Spurs or Newcastle? I wouldn't blame him for ending up at Spurs though, Souness was still Newcastle manager at that stage

Context is everything, as is the timeline. By Curbishley's own admission, Murphy was distracted by talk of a move to Newcastle throughout January, a move that by his account Murphy did not want.

Curbs wrote:

Danny became increasingly unsettled over the last month with all the Newcastle stuff, although I kept reassuring him that there was nothing in it.

If he needed reassuring there was nothing in it, doesn't it sound like he didn't want to leave? IIRC, the rumours were of a swap for Lee Bowyer at Newcastle, and as you said yourself, Sourness was still at Newcastle.

So the guy was distracted by talk of a move to a club he didn't want to play for. Easy to understand, there's plenty of players in the PL whose performances suffer as a result of off the field activities. Ronaldo at ManYoo after the death of his father and the sexual assualt allegations for example.

Curbs wrote:

I didn't think he was in the right frame of mind for us, I told him that and he agreed.

(your bold)

You seem to read that differently from me. He was distracted by talk of a transfer he didn't want, his manager discussed it with him and he agreed that he was off form. Hardly the actions of a primadonna.

Lemlin wrote:

Murphy thought he was too big for Charlton though, started acting the maggot and I'm happy to see him rot on the bench now at Spurs.

Except when a club like Newcastle were rumoured to want him he continually approached his manager to express his displeasure at the thought of a move, and only pressed for a move when Spurs made their move (at the end of the month) You're making it out as if Murphy acted the bollox for ages, when the likelihood is it probably all happened in the space of a few days.

Like I said earlier, Curbishley lashed out to defend his club like any manager would be expected to do. Murphy said similar about choosing Charlton over Spurs two years previous, yet I don't recall Curbs having a problem with his own player then.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

From your own source, his last game for Chrlton was January 2nd. He joined Spurs at the end of January, and they only came in for him at the last minute. By Curbishley's own admission, he only expressed a desire to leave after Spurs made an approach for him. Allowing for a few days negotiation, he was dropped at least three weeks before he made it clear he wanted to go.

Yes, and I said he was an integral part of Charlton's plans, are you saying he wasn't? Curbs said he tried to build a system around the player, read the article. I'd take any player who the team try to build a system around as pretty important.

It was his own poor attitude which left to him being dropped. The article states that also. He got himself sent off, was returned to the team and played poorly. By no means did Curbs change his system about ten games into the season like WhiteWashMan says.

therecklessone wrote:

You were also wrong about him refusing to train.

Maybe I was but he still didn't cover himself in glory IMO.

therecklessone wrote:

You seem to read that differently from me. He was distracted by talk of a transfer he didn't want, his manager discussed it with him and he agreed that he was off form. Hardly the actions of a primadonna.

Did you read the part where he began forcing the issue? That's the actions of a primadonna in my book. Curbs mentions "we're all very disappointed". I'd imagine the we he talks about is the other players and staff at Charlton who Murphy let down.

The transfer may have went through at the eleventh hour but if Murphy had time to force the issue I'd imagine talks had been ongoing for a few days at least, if not more. After all, Spurs had to contact Charlton, Charlton had to tell Murphy, then talk to him and then Murphy had to talk to Spurs. I doubt all that was done at the last minute if Murphy had time to drag his heels. He also had time to keep "on at it" as Curbs mentions.

Except when a club like Newcastle were rumoured to want him he continually approached his manager to express his displeasure at the thought of a move, and only pressed for a move when Spurs made their move (at the end of the month) You're making it out as if Murphy acted the bollox for ages, when the likelihood is it probably all happened in the space of a few days.

Like I said earlier, Curbishley lashed out to defend his club like any manager would be expected to do. Murphy said similar about choosing Charlton over Spurs two years previous, yet I don't recall Curbs having a problem with his own player then.

I remember talk in the press for weeks of him dragging his heels. And its not the tabloid press I'm talking about either. He didn't do his best for his team and left a club that were willing to build a system around him as the playmaker for one where he sits on the bench. Bravo for the man I say, he can rot there and see his fading England career go completely down the toilet. Players like Murphy have to be proven that they're not bigger than the club they play for.

Scott Parker did the same to Charlton and got just what he deserved at Chelsea. You can't kiss the badge of a team one minute and then force a transfer the next.

After all, aren't you the one who repeatedly refers to Sol Campbell as "Judas"? Surely a bit hypocritical if you can't see anything wrong with what Murphy did.

I'm sure though you think its grand for Spurs to pick up Wayne Routledge and other players in a way akin to how Arsenal got "Judas", as you call him, because you support them?

therecklessone

Ah, the return of the tireless rebutter...

Lemlin wrote:

read the article.

When you bother to source your own articles you can lecture me.

Lemlin wrote:

By no means did Curbs change his system about ten games into the season like WhiteWashMan says.

Discuss that with WWM, I never questioned the point.

Lemlin wrote:

Maybe I was but he still didn't cover himself in glory IMO.

As far as I'm concerned, you were wrong about Spurs unsettling him and you were wrong when you lied about him refusing to train. Anything else you have to say about the issue is invalidated by those two clear and simple FACTS.

Lemlin wrote:

He didn't do his best for his team and left a club that were willing to build a system around him as the playmaker for one where he sits on the bench. Bravo for the man I say, he can rot there and see his fading England career go completely down the toilet.

Nice of you to discount the one and a half seasons of top performanceshe gave to Charlton as "didn't do his best for his team". Do you think his career at the Valley began with a sending off at Arsenal and ended with a poor performance at Everton? And what makes you think a month and a half into his career at Spurs that he's "rotting" on the bench? Its a decent midefield four he's trying to break into, he was never going to walk into it. Regardless, he's now got a chance of European football next season instead of another mid table finish with Charlton

Lemlin wrote:

After all, aren't you the one who repeatedly refers to Sol Campbell as "Judas"? Surely a bit hypocritical if you can't see anything wrong with what Murphy did.

I call bulls*it. I have repeatedly explained that I had no problem with Campbell leaving Spurs, nor with him going on a free transfer, nor even with him signing for Arsenal. I had a problem with him saying he wouldn't leave, and that he saw no reason to leave for months leading up to his departure, only for him to do all three of the above. Now if you want to compare the two transfers go right ahead, you're welcome to clutch at straws all you want.

Lemlin wrote:

I'm sure though you think its grand for Spurs to pick up Wayne Routledge and other players in a way akin to how Arsenal got "Judas", as you call him, because you support them?

I call bulls*it a second time. I never criticised Arsenal for how they behaved in signing Campbell, I criticised Campbell. They did what they are meant to do, recruited a player they identified as what they needed. Spurs did the same with Routledge, made a number of bids for him that were turned down by Palace as too low, eventually agreeing a deal before the transfer went to a tribunal. If anyone can be criticised in the situation, its Routledge, who made it clear to Simon Jordan that he would not sign a new contract, meaning Palace had their hand forced because his contract was up in the summer.

Care to explain which "other players" you think we were out of line on, or are you making up more porkies?

Lemlin wrote:

Did you read the part where he began forcing the issue? That's the actions of a primadonna in my book.

Now that you've turned your fire on my club, how about we discuss king primadonna himself, your hero Craig Bellamy? The man who disgraced himself on TV by launching an attack on his manager, when Souness dropped him after Bellamy faked an injury in training becaise he was in a strop over not playing up front.

Freddie Sheppard wrote:

Bellamy's claim that Souness had lied about the background to the bust-up was strongly denied by Shepherd, who accused the striker of "cheating" the club.

"I wish to put the record straight regarding the Bellamy situation," said Shepherd.

"Craig walked off the training ground saying his hamstring was tight (on Friday), but what he failed to reveal was that he had told other members of the squad before training that he intended to feign injury.

"When Graeme discovered this he immediately ordered Bellamy to attend a meeting in my office.

"At that meeting Bellamy admitted to Graeme and I that he had told the players that he was going to "fake" an injury in training and walk off.

"He also agreed at that meeting to apologise to his team-mates for his behaviour. He didn't do this which resulted in the action taken by the manager at the weekend, which I fully support.

"In my book this is cheating on the club, the supporters, the manager and his own team-mates.

"He is paid extremely well and I consider his behaviour to be totally unacceptable and totally unprofessional."

Source

I suppose thats ok though, Souness is a crap manager after all.

While we're on the subject of players letting their side down after another club made a bid for him, how about that Robbie Savage eh? How did he choose to treat his club when Blackburn made a bid for him in January 2005? He handed in a transfer request, thats how.

David Gold wrote:

"But now I find his attitude sickening and depressing.

"He signed a new four-year contract and then, when offered more money by a rival club, thought he could ignore it and walk away on the cheap.

"We've heard all the sob stories about Robbie moving nearer to home for the sake of his family but basically this is not the real issue.

"The bottom line is that he is an adult who signed a contract and should honour it. We all have problems in life that we have to overcome.

Source

I suppose we can add Spurs to the other two chips on your shoulder (Souness and Liverpool) now? I feel so honoured.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

Ah, the return of the tireless rebutter...

Seeing as people are getting sick of: Pot. Kettle. Black. I'll hit you with a new one: people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

therecklessone wrote:

Nice of you to discount the one and a half seasons of top performanceshe gave to Charlton as "didn't do his best for his team". Do you think his career at the Valley began with a sending off at Arsenal and ended with a poor performance at Everton? And what makes you think a month and a half into his career at Spurs that he's "rotting" on the bench? Its a decent midefield four he's trying to break into, he was never going to walk into it. Regardless, he's now got a chance of European football next season instead of another mid table finish with Charlton

Yes, he has another season of sitting on the bench to look forward to. Maybe doing it in Spain or Italy at an away game will let him get some sun. he signed January 31st, simple mathematics: in two months and a half, I can't remember him starting a single game. Not a month and a half. Doesn't bode well if you ask me. Do you think he's fit to break into the Spurs midfield yourself?

therecklessone wrote:

I call bulls*it. I have repeatedly explained that I had no problem with Campbell leaving Spurs, nor with him going on a free transfer, nor even with him signing for Arsenal. I had a problem with him saying he wouldn't leave, and that he saw no reason to leave for months leading up to his departure, only for him to do all three of the above. Now if you want to compare the two transfers go right ahead, you're welcome to clutch at straws all you want.

So you think the Charlton fans had no problem with Murphy saying Charlton was a bigger club than Spurs, signing for them and then changing his entire statement to the opposite a year and a half later? My source that Murphy saying Charlton were bigger is your very own posts above by the way.

therecklessone wrote:

I call bulls*it a second time. I never criticised Arsenal for how they behaved in signing Campbell, I criticised Campbell. They did what they are meant to do, recruited a player they identified as what they needed. Spurs did the same with Routledge, made a number of bids for him that were turned down by Palace as too low, eventually agreeing a deal before the transfer went to a tribunal. If anyone can be criticised in the situation, its Routledge, who made it clear to Simon Jordan that he would not sign a new contract, meaning Palace had their hand forced because his contract was up in the summer.

Care to explain which "other players" you think we were out of line on, or are you making up more porkies?

Sean Davis for one. I suppose they didn't unsettle Routledge at all in your opinion then? So Newcastle unsettle Murphy with a bid but Spurs can't unsettle players with bids themselves?

therecklessone wrote:

Now that you've turned your fire on my club, how about we discuss king primadonna himself, your hero Craig Bellamy? The man who disgraced himself on TV by launching an attack on his manager, when Souness dropped him after Bellamy faked an injury in training becaise he was in a strop over not playing up front.

Yes, Bellamy felt he couldn't do the best for his team in that position. Read the statements he made. Souness, as per usual, acted in ignorance with his 'I know best' man-management style. Bellamy felt he was wasted out wide and the team were underperforming. Would you disagree with him?

Many Newcastle fans didn't and they'd love to have him back. Would you love to have Campbell back at Spurs?

therecklessone wrote:

While we're on the subject of players letting their side down after another club made a bid for him, how about that Robbie Savage eh? How did he choose to treat his club when Blackburn made a bid for him in January 2005? He handed in a transfer request, thats how.

Yes, he did, and got a move to be nearer to his family for personal reasons.

therecklessone wrote:

I suppose we can add Spurs to the other two chips on your shoulder (Souness and Liverpool) now? I feel so honoured.

I've no chip on my shoulder with Spurs or Liverpool. Maybe I do with Danny Murphy but really its more with players who atc like he did. I definitely do with Souness though, which I've never denied. I think you'll find alot of people do.

Now, if you'd like to continue this, I suggest you pm me. This thread has gone way off-topic.

mike65

Lock this now.

Mike.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

So you think the Charlton fans had no problem with Murphy saying Charlton was a bigger club than Spurs, signing for them and then changing his entire statement to the opposite a year and a half later? My source that Murphy saying Charlton were bigger is your very own posts above by the way.

Two statements a year and a half apart, opposed to six months and more of "I see no reason to leave this club". Yeah Lemlin, exactly the same thing...:rolleyes:

Lemlin wrote:

Sean Davis for one.

Another whopper pulled from your arse. Spurs did exactly what that was wrong in your opinion?

lemlin wrote:

I suppose they didn't unsettle Routledge at all in your opinion then? So Newcastle unsettle Murphy with a bid but Spurs can't unsettle players with bids themselves?

Newsflash: teams try to sign players from other teams. What do you expect a team to do, identify a transfer target then sit on the hands in case they unsettle him or upset the other teams manager/fans? The only objectionable behaviour in the Routledge transfer was his decision to refuse to sign another contract, which forced Palace's hand.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, Bellamy felt he couldn't do the best for his team in that position. Read the statements he made. Souness, as per usual, acted in ignorance with his 'I know best' man-management style. Bellamy felt he was wasted out wide and the team were underperforming. Would you disagree with him?

I'd call it the actions of a selfish primadonna, both his manager and his chairman agree. He thought he was bigger than the club, plain and simple.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, he did, and got a move to be nearer to his family for personal reasons.

Ah yes, a move that saved him a whopping 13 miles of a commute. I call bulls*it a third time.

Lemlin wrote:

Now, if you'd like to continue this, I suggest you pm me. This thread has gone way off-topic.

Dragged there by you as usual, I posted on the thread to discuss a match at the weekend (one I was at).

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

Dragged there by you as usual, I posted on the thread to discuss a match at the weekend (one I was at).

I asked a simple question about Murphy and then gave my opinion on him. You were talking about the Spurs' midfield if you remember and you had brought it up. I don't think you're to blame for dragging it off-topic, I think we both are.

Now, seeing as you're labelling me a tireless rebutter but yet again are replying on thread yourself after I suggested taking the discussion off thread, I suggest yet again you pm me if you wish to continue this.

WhiteWashMan

Lemlin wrote:

It was his own poor attitude which left to him being dropped. The article states that also. He got himself sent off, was returned to the team and played poorly. By no means did Curbs change his system about ten games into the season like WhiteWashMan says.

actually i mentioned it because i saw an interview with alan curbishly on the tele the other day and that is what he said.
the team formation was changed.

but if you know more than the manager of the club involved, im sure the england FA would like to hear from you.
i believe theres a post free in a few months time.....

WhiteWashMan

Lemlin wrote:

Once more, another great example of your football 'knowledge'. Have a look at:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/gamelog?id=7932&cc=5739

Murphy started practically every game with Charlton up until Christmas. He was then sent off against Arsenal and Curbishley changed the system. Murphy returned and was left on the bench for one or two games.

The last game he started was on January 2nd because he basically had an attitude problem ie. was too big for his own boots. He was refusing to train and stuff like that AFAIK. He knew about Spurs' interest.

If you don't think he treated Curbishley or Charlton unfairly, have a look at the interview Curbishley did after Murphy left. Curbishley didn't seem to happy in that with Murphy or his comments about Charlton after leaving.

id take notice of this but for one thing.
you always claim the media is mistaken.

therefore, your proof, is wrong, and i fail to see how it backs up any point you have.

i really dont understand how you manage to think youre an expert on every item of football under the sun.

you know, its not often youre right, but youre wrong again...

Lemlin

WhiteWashMan wrote:

actually i mentioned it because i saw an interview with alan curbishly on the tele the other day and that is what he said.
the team formation was changed.

but if you know more than the manager of the club involved, im sure the england FA would like to hear from you.
i believe theres a post free in a few months time.....

Bit late to come back to this. You've been online all week so why drag it up now?

Read the article, even Curbs says he tried to fit the squad around Murphy. By no means was Murphy dropped ten games into the season as you said. The link I posted proves that. Murphy was still an integral part of Charlton's squad.

id take notice of this but for one thing.
you always claim the media is mistaken.

therefore, your proof, is wrong, and i fail to see how it backs up any point you have.

i really dont understand how you manage to think youre an expert on every item of football under the sun.

you know, its not often youre right, but youre wrong again...

Never said I know everything under the sun but its not hard to know more than you.

As for the interview, it was live on television and I'm sure you can find a copy online somewhere if you don't trust the media. I claim the media to be mistaken when its a report from The Sun saying "cole signs for Madrird" or "Ruud says he loves it in London so he's going to Chelsea". If its a clear cut interview with the manager, then it isn't very debatable.

Now, I think we'll leave this topic alone. There's a new weekend of football under way and, no offence, but one where I hope Tottenham will be very unsuccessful for obvious reasons

Either way, I'll be very surprised if we don't see Danny Murphy doing his best impression of Judge Judy again I wonder what the odds are on him signing for Portsmouth next January?