moral dilemma about final price for new house

chuckles30

ok - I know this is not strictly diy so if you want to move it, go ahead.

I'm about to complete the purchase of my new house - it's in a development. I had requested some additional extras including fitting the kitchen. Anyway I got the final account from my solicitor and it turns out the builders have not charged me for about 4k of extras. Now obviously I could say nothing - have plenty of ways of spending this 4k. But just wondering has anyone else been in this position? What would you do? The honest part of me says I should say it to my solicitor and see what she says - I think she could actually tell me to say nothing but not sure. I know that I should actually be paying over this money - but then there's a part of me saying that the builder will make back that 4k on the next house he sells as the prices for my type of house has now risen by almost 20k since I bought in January. Any ideas greatfully appreciated!!!

muffler

If you overpaid the builder by 4 grand how fast do you think he would be back with the money.
My advice would be to tuck the money away for a few months and if it hasn't been mentioned by then - well enjoy your holiday

dingding

He might be looking for the 4K in cash ??? Less the VAT of course :mad:

shabbyroad

If you asked the builder on site (probably the foreman or site manager) for the 'extras' then it's very likely that they'll expect you to pay them directly.

If you asked the developer and the extras were done as part of the actual build then you have a choice to make.

chuckles30

these extras were requested formally, so it should be all above board and on the final account.

I have asked the foreman to get the electrician and plumber to do a few things separtely & we agreed that they were cash jobs.

Oh I guess I'll just have to think about it and decide in the morning.....

gonk

What's to decide? You agreed a price for the work, he did the work - pay the man! If the builder called round to your new house for a chat and while he was there dropped his wallet, would you be wondering if it was OK to keep it? Same difference . . .

Soledad

We paid the for the extras we had done directly to the tradedmen involved.
The price of the house on the contact we signed with the solicitor did not include this work and this work was all agreed formally and above board and we payed VAT on it etc.

There was about 2K for carpenters and roughly 500 euro for electrician.

Strictly speaking this is not part of the house price so probably should be paid separately.
If it means a carpenter or other tradesman is out of pocket then I would definaltey pay, if you got the services they why should you not pay for them.

patrickolee

Difficult one alright... if he's been a nice builder and done everything well, then you probably won't feel right if you don't pay him. So better pay him now, rather than feeling guilty later after you've bought that reclining leather couch! If he's been an arse, or messed you around... then... next time see if you can swipe a few fifties out of his wallet and the bit of retail therapy afterwards should smooth over any niggling guilt!

The fact that you're asking, tells me that you probably will/should pay him.

redman

Simple - Pay him.

chuckles30

I pointed it out to my solicitor this morning and she's going to get back on to the builder about it. So it's going to be paid. Everything has gone smoothly with the builder and finished to a good standard, so it's best to be honest.

Bulmers

the builders get paid regardless of whether you pay for it or not, i'd say nothing, why not, as mentioned in a previous post they wouldn't be running after you to give you money back, bear in mind they're probably making over 100% profit on this house so 4k in the grand scheme of things is nothing to these builders.

gonk

Bulmers wrote:

as mentioned in a previous post they wouldn't be running after you to give you money back

Just wondering how you came to the conclusion most builders are dishonest?

Bulmers wrote:

bear in mind they're probably making over 100% profit on this house so 4k in the grand scheme of things is nothing to these builders.

Where did you get the 100% profit figure from and anyway what has it got to do with anything? Is it your view that because house building is profitable it's OK to steal from builders? Tesco is a very profitable company - does that mean its alright for me to shoplift from them?

Bulmers

i didn't say they are making 100%, i said probably...based on following assumptions; to build a house in Dublin is approx 80-100k, as per Eddie Hobbs program, average price to buy a home in Dublin is 350k so i think it's a fair number based on those assumptions, again, they maybe wrong.

If they dont charge you it's their mistake, not yours.......in my opinion

fatboypee

My advice, keep it till they ask for it.

If the house is in a new development then more than likely you have a six month snag list or something. Wait till then.... as in my experience, its a hells chance getting them back to fix things after you move in... any bit 'o leverage you have the better...

Not all builders are dishonest, but you do get what you pay for these days, especially buying in estates....

muffler

gonk wrote:

Tesco is a very profitable company - does that mean its alright for me to shoplift from them?

Thats away off the mark. Nobody said anything about stealing as in a criminal offense matter.

Take your own example of Tesco. If you want to make comparison with the OP then lets say you do a bit of shopping in their store, you arrive home and see that they have not charged for a couple of items. Are you saying that you would go straight back to the shop and pay them. You would in me arse!

chuckles30 - as I advised previously and as fatboypee also said, keep the money for a while and see if you get all the snags cleared up and then see if they come looking for the money. Thats the time to decide.

redman

chuckles30 wrote:

I pointed it out to my solicitor this morning and she's going to get back on to the builder about it. So it's going to be paid. Everything has gone smoothly with the builder and finished to a good standard, so it's best to be honest.

Good on yeah. Feeling better now I bet!

gonk

muffler wrote:

Thats away off the mark. Nobody said anything about stealing as in a criminal offense matter.

Well, in my opinion withholding €4,000 you know you owe because of an oversight on the part of the person you owe it to is stealing, morally if not legally. The OP did ask for opinions on the morality of the issue.

muffler wrote:

Take your own example of Tesco. If you want to make comparison with the OP then lets say you do a bit of shopping in their store, you arrive home and see that they have not charged for a couple of items. Are you saying that you would go straight back to the shop and pay them. You would in me arse!

There is a qualitative difference between a pint of milk or a packet of rashers and €4,000 worth of work which was contracted for and has been satisfactorily completed. You're right, I wouldn't return to the shop over a minor matter like that, because I'd probably take the view the loss of time and inconvenience to me was worth more than the value of a couple of grocery items.

I'd have more respect for someone who posted saying something along the lines - "Buying a house is an expensive time, just keep the money because you can get away with it." I've no time for spurious rationalisations that it wouldn't be dishonest to keep the money because you assume the builder would do the same to you if the shoe was on the other foot, or you think the builder's making too much profit anyway, or sure it's his mistake, not mine.

chuckles30

Well to be honest I never check my supermarket bill in that level of detail, but I had a fair idea how much the balance on my house was going to be. My budget is quiet tight, so when it was 4k less I knew there was something wrong. Anyway having thought about it over the weekend, I decided to let them know. At the end of the day if he tried charging me 4k extra, I'd be letting him know. Of course the 4k would be very useful at the moment, hence the temptation to say nothing, but then I believe nothing good ever comes of ill-gotten gains.

muffler

gonk wrote:

I'd have more respect for someone who posted saying something along the lines - "Buying a house is an expensive time, just keep the money because you can get away with it."QUOTE]
You would have respect for somebody who posted a comment like that? Whats the world coming to

So you think the OP should just pay up, forget about the snags and the defects liabilty period which also applies to extras.

muffler

chuckles30 wrote:

At the end of the day if he tried charging me 4k extra, I'd be letting him know. Of course the 4k would be very useful at the moment, hence the temptation to say nothing, but then I believe nothing good ever comes of ill-gotten gains.

Couldn't agree more but I was suggesting that you wait a while

Qwerty?

Theres no dilemma.... they did the work.

A hardware store undercharged me last year by 1500, only noticed it as I was making sure they hadn't overcharged me... went straight in and corrected the mistake...

result = he charged me only 750 wouldn't take a penny more. But I'm afraid I can't see your builder cutting the bill to 2000