Prayers found ineffective in speeding recovery

monkeyfudge

From issue 2546 of New Scientist magazine, 07 April 2006, page 6:

Praying for someone might give you hope, but it won't help them recover from heart surgery. It may even harm them. That's the surprising result from a multi-year clinical trial on the therapeutic effects of prayer.

Herbert Benson and Jeffery Dusek of the Mind/Body Medical Institute at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts, and their colleagues followed the fates of 1802 patients undergoing coronary bypass operations. Several Christian prayer groups prayed for one set of patients, while another did not receive any prayers. Although all these patients knew they were in the trial, neither they nor their doctors knew which of the groups they were in.

The prayers made no detectable difference. In the first month after surgery, 52 per cent of prayed-for patients and 51 per cent of non-prayed-for patients suffered one or more complications, the researchers found (American Heart Journal, vol 151, p 934).

A third group of patients received the same prayers as the first group, but were told they were being prayed for. Of these, 59 per cent suffered complications - significantly more than the patients left unsure of whether they were receiving prayers.

The researchers have no explanation for this result, but Mitchell Krukoff at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, suggests that the burden of knowing they were being prayed for may have put added stress on these patients after their surgery.

Rev Hellfire

If it provides them a level of physiological comfort, then to my mind it still has merit.

Perhaps you'd like to give your interpretation of the article you have posted.

monkeyfudge

Rev Hellfire wrote:

It it provides them a level of physiological comfort, this it still has merit.

Perhaps you'd like to give your interpretation of the article you have posted.

It looks more like it's adding stress.

If a lot of people are praying for you, wouldn't that perhaps put a bit of preasure on you to come through?

I remember seeing the documentary Spellbound about the kids doing spelling bee competitions in the US and there was one asian kid and his father had gotten a whole village back home to pray for his victory and the poor kid was under huge preasure.

It may have some merit for the people doing the praying... but isn't it rather selfish of them?

Rev Hellfire

monkeyfudge wrote:

It looks more like it's adding stress.

If a lot of people are praying for you, wouldn't that perhaps put a bit of preasure on you to come through?

Can't say it would. Sure it could equally ( in my opinion ) be said that most people would gain from the idea that a group of people where been supportive of them though their illness and this raise their sprits.

Not sure what a documentry on spelling proves. I've seen one on sports where competing under pressure enabled people to handle stressful situations better. Cannt see how its any more applicable than yours ie not at all.

Dades

Maybe they'll do the trials again using different gods, and eventually find one that works and we can shut this place down for good.

monkeyfudge

I'd also say that if I was so ill that the people around me felt the need to invoke a deity then I start to think things had gotten very serious and I'd be more worried and stressed as a result.

robindch

> if I was so ill that the people around me felt the need to invoke a deity
> then [...] I'd be more worried and stressed as a result.

What about one atheist relative of mine who underwent potentially fatal surgery, only to come 'round a while later to find a second relative standing by the bedside, reverentially holding a "holy glove" that Padre Pio had once worn. Didn't do much for his blood pressure, I can tell you

jtsuited

if i was suffering from a disease and everyone started praying for me, i'd be pretty annoyed.
I'd want them to do things that would make me enjoy what could be my last days and/or put money into medicine research that might prevent such a situation happening.

Funsterdelux

Pills found effective in speeding recovery

aidan24326

monkeyfudge wrote:

Prayers found inneffective in speeding recovery

Monkeyfudge I take it this heading didn't surprise you too much?

Must have been a slow month at 'New Scientist' magazine if that's all they had to be writing about.

monkeyfudge

aidan24326 wrote:

Monkeyfudge I take it this heading didn't surprise you too much?

Must have been a slow month at 'New Scientist' magazine if that's all they had to be writing about.

Ha.. they actually have to fill the magazine on a weekly basis.

And they took the story from the American Heart Journal, so this would have been a serious and well funded study.

aidan24326

It's interesting that they concluded prayer to be possibly harmful due to causing greater stress on the patient. I would have expected it to be benign and harmless, other than maybe creating some false hope in a patient.

But hope fosters a positive attitude which in itself can be important in illness recovery, and I'd have expected a small placebo effect at least. Whether prayer is actually harmful is hard to know, this study sounds like pretty pointless rsearch and you'd expect the American Heart Journal would have better things to be publishing.

Dave!

aidan24326 wrote:

It's interesting that they concluded prayer to be possibly harmful due to causing greater stress on the patient. I would have expected it to be benign and harmless, other than maybe creating some false hope in a patient.

But hope fosters a positive attitude which in itself can be important in illness recovery, and I'd have expected a small placebo effect at least. Whether prayer is actually harmful is hard to know, this study sounds like pretty pointless rsearch and you'd expect the American Heart Journal would have better things to be publishing.

Agreed!

I thought that there was research before that showed how positive thought was effective in situations like this... Anyone remember it? Or maybe I'm just talking through my arse

The_Minister

in fairness, the people in the group didn't really care about the subjects. wouldn't prayer require caring?

Dave!

Firespinner wrote:

in firness, the people in the group didn't really care about the subjects. wouldn't prayer require caring?

You think that's why it didn't work? :rolleyes:

Anyway I'd say they did care about the subjects, since they're in a Christian prayer group. You don't generally join a prayer group (which prays for other people) merely to "practise" your praying skills; but rather because you want to help others.

BTW, I thought praying merely required talking to god?

The_Minister

DaveMcG wrote:

You think that's why it didn't work? :rolleyes:

I'm not that religious (as I have stated before), but there is no harm in pointing out that this scientific study had a flaw in it.

Dave!

True, but as I said, (a) they more than likely did care about who they were praying for, and (b) i don't think/know if actually caring is prerequisite to praying. Once you believe in god, that is. i suppose you'd have to ask a priest or somethin.