How Fergie rejuvinated Uniteds Season

The Muppet

10th Apr 2006
By Nigel Smith

Last autumn, few could have imagined that a faltering United team would find itself just seven points behind the Premiership leaders Chelsea with five games left to play.

Then, United looked to be going nowhere. Indifferent performances against uncelebrated European opposition had led to early elimination from the lucrative Champions League. The team struggled to score goals and seemed over-reliant on the sublime gifts of Wayne Rooney.

Worse, a woeful midfield display and comic defending in a 4-1 hammering away at Middlesborough, provoked a furious tirade against falling standards and sub-standard players from United’s talisman, Roy Keane.

Sir Alex Ferguson was indicted by fans, players and the media alike for appearing clueless as United decayed. The scouting system had delivered duds. Team selection seemed incomprehensible and was the preserve of an overly defensive coach. United, in short, were a shambles.

Fast forward three months and the picture above seems scarcely possible. United are now entertaining, purposeful and deadly in front of goal. The team’s slick performances against Bolton and most recently at home to Arsenal, were a vivid vindication of Sir Alex Ferguson’s rejuvenation as a master of his trade. The Scottish giant, once derided as being as out-dated as Spam, is back!

How Sir Alex turned United’s season around is worthy of high praise indeed. In part, it can be explained by strange twists of fate. Mostly, it is testimony to a formidable strength of character, endurance, courage and the application of tried and trusted footballing principles.

The premature termination of United’s European interest and the limp performance which marked the end to this year’s FA Cup campaign, did give Ferguson that most precious of footballing commodities – time. Of course, Sir Alex would have welcomed continued involvement in the major cups but the visible wilting of Arsenal yesterday, especially in midfield, amply demonstrated the benefits to the United team of better preparation.

If Sir Alex has reaped the rewards of having six days between matches, he has earned his luck by re-discovering the tactics and attacking philosophy that had driven United to glittering success. Roy Keane’s departure from Old Trafford had the effect of liberating United from a team formation designed to prolong his career as the fulcrum of the side. Ferguson was clearly beguiled by the Irish warrior who had given charisma and an identity to United for more than a decade. Yet, injuries had made Keane less mobile and thus, less effective. The player, whilst still capable at the domestic level, could no longer maintain the highest standards required of elite central midfield performers. In selecting a 4-2-3-1 formation with the sole aim of playing to a fading Keane’s strengths, United lost the width and the attacking vim that had been their hallmarks for 14 years.

Keane’s post-Middlesborough spleen, forced Fergie into abandoning a formation which had stifled United as an attacking force. A supine FA Cup performance against Liverpool aside, the team has not looked back since.

The return to a 4-4-2 formation better suited the personnel available at Old Trafford. The cruel leg and ankle break suffered by Alan Smith at Anfield, the mysterious eye complaint that forced out Paul Scholes and the exhaustion of Darren Fletcher, further narrowed Sir Alex’s options in midfield, leaving him with little choice but to select Giggs and O’Shea regularly. Whilst no-one would pretend this midfield pairing represents the future of United, it has done all that has been required so far. The examination at home to European semi-finalists Arsenal was passed with flying colours. Giggs, free of injury, has flourished as a playmaker whilst O’Shea has proved solidly competent as a defensive shield.

United’s attacking formation has been enhanced by a settled midfield and reinforced by the solid platform Fergie’s defenders have provided. Wes Brown, still perhaps too fragile to be reliable, showed international form before succumbing to injury. In Nemanja Vidic, his seven million pound replacement at centre half, United may have found, at last, the kind of imposing, uncompromising defender needed to bring out the best in Rio Ferdinand.

Even the hapless Mikael Silvestre has looked a different player since being redeployed at left back in place of long term casualty Gabriel Heinze. The harum scarum, school-boy defending is less frequent. Silvestre’s goal assists for Saha at Bolton and for Rooney against Arsenal, proved his worth as a fullback, though they might still not be enough to warrant another year at Old Trafford.

Resolute in defence, imaginative in midfield, United have begun recently to bear comparison with the one-touch, remorseless, attacking football machine of old. Even the gamble of rotating goal-king Ruud Van Nistelrooy with Louis Saha as partner for the immense Rooney, has paid off for Ferguson. Saha’s return to fitness has been a boon and both strikers have scored crucial goals to keep the pressure on Chelsea.

Perhaps Fergie’s most significant achievement in recent months has been to keep intact the player’s commitment to him and to the United cause. A Carling Cup victory over a Wigan side suffering from stage fright, may be small potatoes compared to the thrills of yesteryear but it was proof of the hunger and desire for success of both players and manager. United have continued in similar vein since the Cardiff triumph, joyously chalking up nine straight wins to maintain a firm grip on automatic entry to the Champion’s League next season.

Sir Alex Ferguson, newly armed with a contract for another year, has said that this United team is within two years of greatness. Few would have believed him just three months ago. The fact that the Premiership is competitive again when just six weeks ago Chelsea were 18 points ahead and cantering effortlessly to the title, is a reminder to all his doubters that Sir Alex may still have enough of the right stuff to guide the new United towards a serious challenge for the title ahead of schedule.

I found this an interesting read and as a United fan that has always supported the Manager I feel it justifies the loyalty that most United fans showed in Fergie when things were not going to plan.

Fergie made the difficult decisions like letting Keano go dropping Ruud and changing formation when he knew the time was right. Not for the first time in his time at United he has not let emotion prevent him from making unpopular tough decisions for the overall benefit of the team. This is what has made him the most successfull manager the English league has ever seen. I believe United have the neucleus of another successful team ,Fergies third at United which considering there were calls for him to be sacked a few short months ago is a marvelous achievement.

United have the best attack in the Premiership and Vidic appears to complete the defence, A couple of top class midfielders in the summer and the future looks very promising.

Lemlin

The Muppet wrote:

I found this an interesting read and as a United fan that has always supported the Manager I feel it justifies the loyalty that most United fans showed in Fergie when things were not going to plan.

Fergie made the difficult decisions like letting Keano go dropping Ruud and changing formation when he knew the time was right. Not for the first time in his time at United he has not let emotion prevent him from making unpopular tough decisions for the overall benefit of the team. This is what has made him the most successfull manager the English league has ever seen. I believe United have the neucleus of another successful team ,Fergies third at United which considering there were calls for him to be sacked a few short months ago is a marvelous achievement.

United have the best attack in the Premiership and Vidic appears to complete the defence, A couple of top class midfielders in the summer and the future looks very promising.

I agree that United have been playing well of late but a few points:

1. United nearly catching up with Chelsea has just as much to do with Chelsea not running on all cyclinders over the past few weeks as it has with Fergie 'rejuvinating' United.
2. Vidic is still unproven. Let's not forget it was not that long ago that Ferdinand was being billed as world class.
3. If United want to be successful, they are going to need a bigger and better squad. Even the article points out how they are reaping the rewards of six days between games. United normally wouldn't benefit from this.
4. World class midfielders can't just be picked up.
5. United having the best attack in the Premiership is debatable. Henry and Adeyabor look very potent at the minute. Not to mention Reyes and Van Persie as back-up.
6. Despite this 'rejuvination', United are still where they were before it. Out of the CL and FA Cup, and behind Chelsea in the league.
7. Is this article from a United site, seems a tad biased?

yop

Good article, on the point of United catching Chelsea been down to Chelsea not running on all cylinders, could the same not be said for United and how Chelsea went 18 points clear?

United I still think will not catch Chelsea, but will take it down to within maybe 5 points, but at least it stops Moanhino saying he was right predicting that they would have it won by Apr 9th.

The Muppet

I agree that United have been playing well of late but a few points:

1. United nearly catching up with Chelsea has just as much to do with Chelsea not running on all cyclinders over the past few weeks as it has with Fergie 'rejuvinating' United.

United winning 9 out of their last 9 matches has nothing to do with Chelseas form. True Chelsea have dropped points to allow United Close the gap but United still had to win those games which indicates an improvememnt in form


2. Vidic is still unproven. Let's not forget it was not that long ago that Ferdinand was being billed as world class.

Is Ferdinand not world class now? It's too early to be definite about Vidic but teh indications are good

3. If United want to be successful, they are going to need a bigger and better squad. Even the article points out how they are reaping the rewards of six days between games. United normally wouldn't benefit from this.

I agree wew have cover at the back and up front so as i said a couple of decent midfielders in teh summer and We should be there or ther abouts

4. World class midfielders can't just be picked up.

United are still an attractive proposition for the top players. Fergies is on record as saying he is going to bring in 2 players that are still involved in europe. Rumour at Old Trafford is that these deals have already been finalised.

5. United having the best attack in the Premiership is debatable. Henry and Adeyabor look very potent at the minute. Not to mention Reyes and Van Persie as back-up.


I wouldn't swap Uniteds attack for any other in the prem though Henry on his own would be welcome .

6. Despite this 'rejuvination', United are still where they were before it. Out of the CL and FA Cup, and behind Chelsea in the league.

They are but he has turned it around from that position and the style and Flair that United Fans expect from their team has returned

7. Is this article from a United site, seems a tad biased?

Biased :eek: Football supporters, What next?;)
[/quote]

~Rebel~

yop wrote:

United I still think will not catch Chelsea, but will take it down to within maybe 5 points, but at least it stops Moanhino saying he was right predicting that they would have it won by Apr 9th.

Didn't Mourinho say at the start of the season he thought they'd win it at the very end and that it would be much closer then last year? Has he changed that comment? if so thats even more aragant then usual!

BFassassin

good read i think this year we will run chelsea very close till the end, we need at least 2 quality midfielders and some other replacements for the players we should get rid of(fletcher,sylvestre etc). if we do that united will have a very good season next year imo

Necronomicon

Lemlin wrote:

1. United nearly catching up with Chelsea has just as much to do with Chelsea not running on all cyclinders over the past few weeks as it has with

While Chelsea's "blip" has allowed United the opportunity to gain ground on them, they still have had to win 9 games out of 9. That's stunning form and has nothing to do with Chelsea.

casanova_kid

To "the muppet"(screen name, not personal abuse), Ferdinand is definetely not world class, he's not even premiership class watch the bolton goal the other week and you'll see that. Basic task unfulfilled.

wheres me jumpa

We all said some horrible things about United and Arsenal earlier in the year. And despite both teams recent form, nothing has changed for me.

Uniteds midfield is still no where near as good as it should be. Arsenal are still prone to losing physical games. Both teams still need to go out and do what we all thought they would need to do this summer.

Having said that I thought the game yesterday was cracking. Hats off to both sets of players, good clean game with free flowing football. A joy to watch.

The Muppet

casanova_kid wrote:

To "the muppet"(screen name, not personal abuse), Ferdinand is definetely not world class, he's not even premiership class watch the bolton goal the other week and you'll see that. Basic task unfulfilled.

What exactly does world class mean? He is not the best in the world and as you pointed out he sometimes lacks concentration that costs us but IMO he is a decent defender and on his day is as good as anyone. He will be playing for England in the world cup, lets see how he does there to see if he is world class or not.

MrPillowTalk

casanova_kid wrote:

To "the muppet"(screen name, not personal abuse), Ferdinand is definetely not world class, he's not even premiership class watch the bolton goal the other week and you'll see that. Basic task unfulfilled.

Thats ridiculous, granted its debateable as to wheither or not he is world class but to say he is not premiership class is crapola

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

I found this an interesting read and as a United fan that has always supported the Manager I feel it justifies the loyalty that most United fans showed in Fergie when things were not going to plan.

Fergie made the difficult decisions like letting Keano go dropping Ruud and changing formation when he knew the time was right. Not for the first time in his time at United he has not let emotion prevent him from making unpopular tough decisions for the overall benefit of the team.

I think United's form since the departure of Keane indicates that Ferguson was obviously too sentimental and let his emotions prevent him making the tough decision.

Keane should have gone in the Summer, perhaps even a year earlier. That 4-5-1 formation was the death of United, and Ferguson's persistence with it for so long is definitely one of the reasons that they are behind Chelsea now.

If I were a United fan I would think that it should not take two years to return the team to "greatness". All the first XI needs is a world class central midfielder. But this has been an oncoming issue for years, so I would be disappointed to hear from the manager that is going to take another two to solve.

That said a lot of heart can be taken from United's recent performances, although the season will still be a disappointing one unless Chelsea are somehow caught.

TheMonster

Jivin Turkey wrote:

That said a lot of heart can be taken from United's recent performances, although the season will still be a disappointing one unless Chelsea are somehow caught.

Not necesarily - Earlier in the season I think most United fans thought it would new a few years before they could challenge Chelsea. The last few months have shown that they are not actually that far away.

segadreamcast

TheMonster wrote:

Not necesarily - Earlier in the season I think most United fans thought it would new a few years before they could challenge Chelsea. The last few months have shown that they are not actually that far away.

It has been a good comeback, but ultimately a disappointing season.

Despite the "smoke and mirrors" that Fergie is trying to whip up - here is the bottom line:

Carling Cup
2nd place
Out of FA Cup
Out of Champions League at a record-early stage.

Mediocre season at best. Don't get me wrong, three months ago they were on course for their worst season ever, so to even claw it back to mediocre has required some great performances. Nine wins from nine is good, good form but, ultimately, they're only averaging out what was horrific performance at the start of the season. Thus, mediocre.

eyerer

the game at stamford bridge will be interesting to see how close the gap is now
while it looks like the gap is not what it once seemed, chelsea still have a pit of money to splash come summer

hope pool, united and arsenal get the players they need to make a more interesting challenge next year

The Muppet

NoelRock wrote:

three months ago they were on course for their worst season ever, so to even claw it back to mediocre has required some great performances. Nine wins from nine is good, good form but, ultimately, they're only averaging out what was horrific performance at the start of the season. Thus, mediocre.

They were never in danger of having their worst season ever.


@JT

With Hindsight you are possibly right when you say he should have let Keaneo go last summer but United fans would not have been too happy if he had done that. Loyalty has to come into it, the problems arise when a manager lets that loyalty cloud his decisions to the detriment of the Club.

You would probably say fergie did that and again with hindsight it would be difficult to argue with you but IMO the decision was made at the right time allowing for a parting under mutual agreement. Most United fans would say Keane deserved that at the very least.

segadreamcast

The Muppet wrote:

They were never in danger of having their worst season ever.


@JT

With Hindsight you are possibly right when you say he should have let Keaneo go last summer but United fans would not have been too happy if he had done that. Loyalty has to come into it, the problems arise when a manager lets that loyalty cloud his decisions to the detriment of the Club.

You would probably say fergie did that and again with hindsight it would be difficult to argue with you but IMO the decision was made at the right time allowing for a parting under mutual agreement. Most United fans would say Keane deserved that at the very least.

Sorry, I meant in the Premier League.

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

With Hindsight you are possibly right when you say he should have let Keaneo go last summer but United fans would not have been too happy if he had done that. Loyalty has to come into it, the problems arise when a manager lets that loyalty cloud his decisions to the detriment of the Club.

You would probably say fergie did that and again with hindsight it would be difficult to argue with you but IMO the decision was made at the right time allowing for a parting under mutual agreement. Most United fans would say Keane deserved that at the very least.

Ferguson was too loyal to Keane, hence he should not get credit for letting him go too late.

Plus I think they could have played the "mutual consent" thing (which I agree Keane probably deserved) far better had he gone during the Summer, and not out of the blue one morning mid-season shortly after a pretty serious incident involving Keane bashing fellow team members.

I think Keane could be somewhat credited with United's "rejuvination", his words obviously hit home with some of the players, that and the irrepressible form of Wayne Rooney (what a waste of money ).

But it would also be naive to discount their early exit from the CL. Their season was pretty much ended in December. They were starring their worst season in 15 odd years, perhaps Ferguson used this as fuel to get the best out of the players and hence he should be creditted for it, but IMO it was his fault they were looking down the barrel in the first place.

Hobart

If the "4-2-3-1 formation" was used "with the sole aim of playing to a fading Keane’s strengths" why did Fergie(Queiroz) continue to use it after Keane got injured? I remember the home defeat against Blackburn in late Sept. with the united "faithful" chanting "4-4-2, 4-4-2, 4-4-2" at half time. No Keane there! Seems as if the guy doesn't know what he is talking about tbh.

The Muppet

Jivin Turkey wrote:

that and the irrepressible form of Wayne Rooney (what a waste of money ).

ah yes all the armchair managers that said Rooney was an over rated waste of money are pretty quiet on the subject these days.

Were you one of those JT;)

anonymous_joe

I wanted Keane to go in the summer, only so we could start rebuilding...

Still don't think there's a Premiership title in this United side. Simple fact is, Chelsea are always going to have more resources, and if this is their idea of terrible form, then I can see them winning quite a few more titles.

Until Mourinho decides he wants a new challenge, the Premiership is Chelsea's.

Aquos76

Muppet, you know that I was one of the supporters who was calling for fergie to step aside, I must admit that I am so relieved that he has managed to turn things around and put a bit of dignity back into our season. Failure in the CL was the final straw for me though. We probably had the easiest group and still managed to finish bottom.

Yes Man U are playing exceptionally well at present and Fergie has to take a lot of credit for that. The summer will be very interesting to see what he does in the transfer market.

But for the moment I suppose you could say I will reserve judgement until we see who he brings in.

Also one final thing, lets hope he does not start changing his team to drastically against Sunderland on Friday. We all know how many times he has got caught when he under estimates the opposition

PHB

Wow insightful article.

As for the CL, i said at the start of the stages when it was drawn that we had a very good group and I was worried about it, and I was right.
Of the two teams that went through. Benfica were quarter finalists, losing to Barca only 2-0 on aggregate. Villareal are through to the semi's against Arsenal and have a great chance of going through to the final.

Anybody who thinks United shoulda walked that group, or that it was easy, doesn't know anything about football.

Yes it's been a bad season in the CL, and in the FA Cup.
Heres the thing to me about leagues and cups.

League tables don't lie imo. They are a fair representation of you over the whole season, so racking up say 90 points (which we are on our way to doing) is something to be proud of.
Cup's are determined by one thing, who won. If you don't win, you don't win, and I don't care when you get knocked out. I wouldn't care if we got to the CL semi final and got knocked out, its no diff to me. Cup's are cups and are great, but I want to win the league, and this is a good showing, ready for next season.

9 wins out of 9, 27 points, best run since 99.
United will be there next season, so I'm happy.
Fergie hasn't rejuvinated United's season. This season is still kinda a write off(unless a miracle happens)
What Fergie is done is set us up for next season. And I'm very grateful for that, and it's about time people started to show some faith in the master again. If he changes the team versus Sunderland, that's fine by me, why? Because he is the most decorated manager in english history, and I trust him to make the right decision.

Aquos76

Anybody who thinks United shoulda walked that group, or that it was easy, doesn't know anything about football.

Well I never said it was Easy, I said I felt it was the easiest group and Yes I still think that United should have finished on top of the group, not bottom. They even failed to get the UEFA cup place.

9 wins out of 9, 27 points, best run since 99.
United will be there next season, so I'm happy.
Fergie hasn't rejuvinated United's season. This season is still kinda a write off(unless a miracle happens)
What Fergie is done is set us up for next season. And I'm very grateful for that, and it's about time people started to show some faith in the master again. If he changes the team versus Sunderland, that's fine by me, why? Because he is the most decorated manager in english history, and I trust him to make the right decision.

Yes I have acknowledged how he has turned the season. Are you telling me though that after the CL exit you were as supportive to him as you are now. Maybe you were, I cant remember. All I remember is the many disagrement I had with Muppet.( Difference of opinions I should say)

With regards to the Sunderland game I mentioned drasticaaly changing his team. Of course its ok to give one or two a rest. I would like to see Pique get a run out alright.

Necronomicon

Aquos76 wrote:

Failure in the CL was the final straw for me though. We probably had the easiest group and still managed to finish bottom.

Failure to get beyond the group stage was a disaster, yes, but United were in a group with two teams that went on to reach the quarter and semi finals, one team still within reach of the final. How is that an easy group?

Aquos76

Necromomicon wrote:

Failure to get beyond the group stage was a disaster, yes, but United were in a group with two teams that went on to reach the quarter and semi finals, one team still within reach of the final. How is that an easy group?

Other side of the coin, that could have been Man U in the Semi finals.:D

But yes you make a vaild point. In all fairness though can you honestly say that at the start of this years CL campaign, after seeing the group Man U were in, Did you think that they would not be capable of 1st or atleast 2nd spot.

~Rebel~

Hobart wrote:

If the "4-2-3-1 formation" was used "with the sole aim of playing to a fading Keane’s strengths" why did Fergie(Queiroz) continue to use it after Keane got injured? I remember the home defeat against Blackburn in late Sept. with the united "faithful" chanting "4-4-2, 4-4-2, 4-4-2" at half time. No Keane there! Seems as if the guy doesn't know what he is talking about tbh.

I assume what was meant was that 4231 was played as Keane couldn't hold the midfield on his own anymore. If he's out of the team then 2 central midfielders would def be needed, otherwise whoever was better would just be in that position instead of keane anyway. O'Shea has upped his game since then infairness to him, and Giggs has been contributing a lot to tracking back and tackling when he's been in that central role as well. Still though the point is valid, nobody is there to hold that spot to the extent Keane used to be able to, and as such by not replacing him the team needed to adapt for that shortcoming.

iregk

A few people looking forward to the United - Chelsea game to see how much they have closed the gap on them. Its not a good marker if you ask me. As Fergie rightly said, Chelsea haven't raised the bar in terms of football, what they have done is raise it considerably in terms of consistency. People are saying Chelsea had a bad patch, well if thats a bad patch then that makes for glum reading for next season doesn't it?

The fact is, Chelsea will sign Ballack and probably someone else next season. United need another center half. Ferdinand is not a world class defender. He is an average premiership defender that has been over hyped to bits in true english media and Sky form. Along with this they need two world class midfielders. This I believe is on the cards anyway. Yes O'Shea has been good lately but thats all he has been. When it comes to the latter stages of the CL he is not the player you want in there.

United may well beat Chelsea in stamford bridge and Chelsea may well beat United. The point is, Chelsea have taken their foot off the gas and up until last Sunday were cruising. Yes united won 9 in a row but when your on that sort of a run you really need to close the gap a good bit more. Keep the fait lads, you wouldn't be a true supporter otherwise but at the end of the day its mainly media trying to hype up and paper over a bad situation. 5 games left with a 7 point defecit to Chelsea is a huge gap! This is a team that frankly doesn't loose, yet they can afford to loose two of those games!

The Muppet

Aquos76 wrote:

Other side of the coin, that could have been Man U in the Semi finals.:D

But yes you make a vaild point. In all fairness though can you honestly say that at the start of this years CL campaign, after seeing the group Man U were in, Did you think that they would not be capable of 1st or atleast 2nd spot.

Its an old Cliche but there are no easy games in the champions league . The teams you say we should have beaten have proved that. One of tehm knocked out last years winners and teh other is in still in the competition. Just because they are not a big name club does not mean they are not any good , after all they have to be one of the best in their country to qualify for to play in it.

PHB's post above sums up my feeling on Cups and Leagues. The premier league is the one to win for me and the CL and FA Cup follow in that order.

aquos76 wrote:

All I remember is the many disagrement I had with Muppet.( Difference of opinions I should say)

I would say debate, There is noting wrong with having difference of opinion. It's what makes boards tick.

Hobart

I remember Liverpool going on a run of, what, 10 or 11 wins in a row earlier this season. A great run for sure, but hardly one that justifies jumping up and down and calling the season rejuvinated now is it? Would I say Liverpool are the finished article? No. Are Manu? Far from it. Would I call Liverpools season rejuvinated? Mo. Manu's No? Second best is not best.

Yes they have had a good run, and it was needed from a lot of perspectives, but they still have a lot more work to do. Unless it's being second that satisfies them and their fans.

TBH the gap narrowing at the top is more down to Chelski not performing to their potential, than Manu closing the "skills" gap.

Secondly, it never ceases to amaze me how u****ortant the CL league is to fans of teams, who have no chance of winning it. The milk cup is the first trophy Manu have won is years, and all of a sudden the CL and FA cup are of no importance. It's beyond patethic tbh.

TheMonster

Hobart wrote:

TBH the gap narrowing at the top is more down to Chelski not performing to their potential, than Manu closing the "skills" gap.

Using the same logic maybe Chelseas form at the start of the season was due to United not performing to their potential and you could argue everyones form is due to the other teams not performing to their potential.

Hobart

TheMonster wrote:

Using the same logic maybe Chelseas form at the start of the season was due to United not performing to their potential and you could argue everyones form is due to the other teams not performing to their potential.

TBH I would not disagree, to a certain extent. Although it's not that simplistic. As somebody said earlier, league position does not lie.

Nalz

It all boils down to how much and how well fergie spends in summer. The league is Chelseas, even though they have a slightly tougher run in. I can see them winning at least 2 of there 3 tricky away ties and that will be enough I reckon. I hope Im wrong though!

The defence is more than sorted for next season. We are beginning to see more of Vidic and he appears to be decent. Ferdinand on his day is class act, Brown is a natural defender, and when Heinze comes back to join Neville, O Shea, Silvestre, Pique and Evra(which Im not too sure of) it should be sufficent enough.

In Midfield is where the problem lies. A character, a reliable consistent take no crap work horse is needed. No one springs to mind. I know Riquelme is decent but thats not how I would describe him. Will Fergie buy young and british? Reo Coker has been mentioned before, but I cant see him as a Manchester United player. Essien would have made far greater significance to the premiership if he had joined Man Utd. Scholes and Smith will be back sometime before Christmas I presume.

The wide areas seem fine. Giggs has another 2 years left, Park Ronaldo and even Rooney. Maybe one addition in this area could strengthen the squad. I think Lennon of spurs would be a good purchase at the right price.

Up front is okay.. Rossi could be loaned out, leaving Rooney Ruud and Louis Saha. Hopefully Ole can gain some fitness and complete the squad.

United need a centre mid and a winger, with Ballack moving to Chelski in the summer (and pos a decent striker moving there also) the task will be the extra bit tougher again.

Fair play to Fegie and the lads, for slighty bringing mr "arrogant bird flu I love the press man" down to earth and givin them a run for there money

iregk

TheMonster wrote:

Using the same logic maybe Chelseas form at the start of the season was due to United not performing to their potential and you could argue everyones form is due to the other teams not performing to their potential.

Well is that not the whole idea of the league. Any team can raise it for one day. The league shows the team capable of doing that all through the year!

Arguably United, Arsenal and Chelsea have very little between in terms of on their day performances. Who is the best can be discussed at lenght. The fact remains Arsenal don't hit thier high points enough and United are only hitting theirs now where as Chelsea have been doing it all season. Even when at 50% they have still won games.

As echo'd above. The league doesn't lie, a knockout cup can and does.

TheMonster

That was my point - its where you end up matter not when you go on runs.

iregk wrote:

Well is that not the whole idea of the league. Any team can raise it for one day. The league shows the team capable of doing that all through the year!

Arguably United, Arsenal and Chelsea have very little between in terms of on their day performances. Who is the best can be discussed at lenght. The fact remains Arsenal don't hit thier high points enough and United are only hitting theirs now where as Chelsea have been doing it all season. Even when at 50% they have still won games.

As echo'd above. The league doesn't lie, a knockout cup can and does.

gracehopper

Hobart wrote:

Secondly, it never ceases to amaze me how u****ortant the CL league is to fans of teams, who have no chance of winning it. The milk cup is the first trophy Manu have won is years, and all of a sudden the CL and FA cup are of no importance. It's beyond patethic tbh.

Of course the FA cup and CL are more important than the league cup. I dont think many United fans would disagree with you there.

On the article:
I disagree that uniteds season has been rejuvenated. Rejuvenation for me would have to culminate with winning a major trophy. What they have done is restored a bit of pride and and showed that Chelsea are catchable. They've found a stable team and regained an attacking shape. They are playing great, aggressive, attacking football and scoring goals for fun.

What is it down to? Stable team selection, the team remaining largely injury free, the 2 squad signings in January, Less games than Chelsea or liverpool. Its also down to a change in atitude and this is the most important thing for me. The last few games United have looked like they could murder the opposition. If United could match Chelseas consistency and play this current brand of football they will be the best team in england again.

also, Chelsea wont be as consistent next year unless mourinho reinvents his style of play. PL teams are beginning to sniff chelsea out even those at the foot of the table

BaZmO*

Lemlin wrote:

5. United having the best attack in the Premiership is debatable. Henry and Adeyabor look very potent at the minute. Not to mention Reyes and Van Persie as back-up.

Don't think it's debatable at all tbh.

RVN, Rooney & Saha have a combined goal tally of 41 with 18 Assists.
While Henry, Reyes, RVP, Adebayor & Bergkamp have a combined goal tally of 34 with 21 Assists.

yop

Yip Moanhino predicted it alright.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/4692168.stm

Well even winning the "Milk Cup" is one more trophy than most clubs this season. For a team who were going to win nothing, in demise etc etc etc then 1 trophy not matter supposidly how meaningless it is & possibly 2nd is better than finishing with nothing is it not?
United are used to finishing 1st for 8 out of the last 13 years, not winning it in 3 years is not as hard to handle as some people think.

Lemlin

BaZmO* wrote:

Don't think it's debatable at all tbh.

RVN, Rooney & Saha have a combined goal tally of 41 with 18 Assists.
While Henry, Reyes, RVP, Adebayor & Bergkamp have a combined goal tally of 34 with 21 Assists.

Adeyabor only arrived at Christmas. Henry missed a large part of the season out injured. Factors like that have to be taken into consideration.

I admit Saha missed a good bit too but United tend to only play one striker with Rooney and they had RVN then anyway.

BaZmO*

Lemlin wrote:

Adeyabor only arrived at Christmas. Henry missed a large part of the season out injured. Factors like that have to be taken into consideration.

I admit Saha missed a good bit too but United tend to only play one striker with Rooney and they had RVN then anyway.

Why are you changing your point of argument? You originally said that "United having the best attack in the Premiership is debatable" and I showed you the facts that would suggest otherwise.

Hobart

Sounds like the (in)famous fergie spin machine in operation tbh. The article, as I have pointed out, is fairly inaccurate. This is the type of crap he used to do in the past, to deflect from a poor run in one comp or another. Looks like he's up to his old tricks again. Rejuvinated, yea right Alex.

TheMonster

Hobart wrote:

Sounds like the (in)famous fergie spin machine in operation tbh. The article, as I have pointed out, is fairly inaccurate. This is the type of crap he used to do in the past, to deflect from a poor run in one comp or another. Looks like he's up to his old tricks again. Rejuvinated, yea right Alex.

Rejuventate: return to life; get or give new life or energy

PHB

9 wins out of 9 (incl Bolton and Arsenal) in the premiership.

You can talk about poor preformances in another competition all you want, but simply put, 9 wins out of 9.
75 points after 33 games in a top class league.

The following teams have gotten more points than United this league in the three top leagues.

Chelsea
Juventus

That's it.

iregk

Bayern Munich 66 points having played 4 games less aren't doing too shabby either.

Hobart

PHB wrote:

9 wins out of 9 (incl Bolton and Arsenal) in the premiership.

You can talk about poor preformances in another competition all you want, but simply put, 9 wins out of 9.
75 points after 33 games in a top class league.

The following teams have gotten more points than United this league in the three top leagues.

Chelsea
Juventus

That's it.

So out of the "three top leagues" as you put it. 2 other teams have more points than united? Your point is what exactly? I have no idea what statistic/point you are trying to prove tbh, I presume you are talking about the prem, La Liga and Italian Serie A, when you quote your "3 top leagues". I'm sure the Germans might have something to say about that. Bayern Munich have less points, but only 29 games played.

Celtic have 85 points from their 33 games. But they are not in your "top 3 leagues" because there was only 3 teams in the running for the title this year in Scotland, wasn't there? Oh...but wait...:rolleyes:

iregk

Of course he isn't going to class Germany as a top league! This is despite the fact that over the life of the CL they have a better record in the competition than the premiership does! :rolleyes:

Hobart

iregk wrote:

Of course he isn't going to class Germany as a top league! This is despite the fact that over the life of the CL they have a better record in the competition than the premiership does! :rolleyes:

I've peaked into the world of PHB and I came across a few other interesting stats:

If you reversed the scores in the group Manu played in for the champions league this season, you would have to assume that United finished top and not bottom of that group. Couple that with the fact that asian flu will most likely be prevelant across most of the greater part of Europe, by this time next week, and simply put United are actually the winners of the champions league this season. They are currently the holders of the World Cup (well would be if they were an international team) and are running away with La Liga (well would be if they renamed themselves Barcelona and moved to Spain).

BaZmO*

iregk wrote:

Of course he isn't going to class Germany as a top league! This is despite the fact that over the life of the CL they have a better record in the competition than the premiership does! :rolleyes:

But even if he did include the Bundesliga his point about only 2 teams having more points than them would still stand. No?

Hobart

BaZmO* wrote:

But even if he did include the Bundesliga his point about only 2 teams having more points than them would still stand. No?

I thnik the point is that you can eskew any stat's, points etc.. to suit an agenda. Why would you not include the German league in any attempt to compare like with like? What about the Brazillian leagues, Argentina etc...His point is actually stupid because he uses what he considers to be the "top 3 leagues".

eyerer

Hobart wrote:

If you reversed the scores in the group Manu played in for the champions league this season, you would have to assume that United finished top and not bottom of that group. Couple that with the fact that asian flu will most likely be prevelant across most of the greater part of Europe, by this time next week, and simply put United are actually the winners of the champions league this season. They are currently the holders of the World Cup (well would be if they were an international team) and are running away with La Liga (well would be if they renamed themselves Barcelona and moved to Spain).

re: united attack, i'd say it is the best in the league. they always look dangerous going forward

BaZmO*

Hobart wrote:

I thnik the point is that you can eskew any stat's, points etc.. to suit an agenda. Why would you not include the German league in any attempt to compare like with like? What about the Brazillian leagues, Argentina etc...His point is actually stupid because he uses what he considers to be the "top 3 leagues".

His points are always stupid, it's just that in this case it holds true even if you do include the Bundesliga.

As you've said yourself earlier....

Hobart wrote:

league position does not lie.