Dog on/off Lead / Psycho Woman

slumped

Just thought I would tell a story and ask advice at the same time!

Was out last night on the usual walk around the block with my lab. Turned a corner and saw a medium size dog (cross between a greyhound and a dalmation if thats even possible) bounding towards us.

Looked around and saw a woman on a bike in the middle of the road with two children running along side her. At this stage I am holding on for dear life to my lab while the other dog is snarling and barking at my lad who it would appear just wants to play.

Not risking a fight I realise that the woman on the bike owns the dog and she starts calling it off. She does not get off her bike and put a lead on, just sits on the bike calling the dog.

At this stage I am so p1ssed off I tell her that she should put her dog on a lead - she then turns to me and says that its because of people like me that the world is such a terrible place.!

I just repeated what I said about keeping her dog on a lead and under control and she shook her head. I then said something to the effect of how it was a very depressing outlook on life if I was what all that was wrong with the world and she said it was!

Sorry for rambling, but here are my questions!

1. Is it legal to walk a dog off the lead in a public place?
2. If the dog is making trouble what is the law?

I'm not talking of taking action, but would be interested to know for my own dog and for future reference!

My lab was unhurt and perhaps a little dissappointed he didn't get to play with the snarling, frothy at the mouth little bugger!

S

Raminahobbin

That really pisses me off too. The other day i was walking my dog with my mother. We were nearly home, when a guy came around the corner with his medium cross-breed type dog. He bounded up to my girl in a very dominant posture and proceeded to snarl at her...by this time the guy had just turned another corner, didnt even notice his dog was missing. So i picked my dog up, and my mam tried to shoo the other away, but he was very persistant! Refused to leave, and i had to carry my girl home with my mam and the aggressive dog in tow. i've never encountered a dog so determined, usually they just leave when i shoo them or pick her up! He even tried to come into our porch after us, i had to let my mam in the back!

It's not so much dogs off the lead i have a problem with, just irresponsible owners. I let my own off the lead, but only in an enclosed field situation, because she is well trained and never causes hassle, but i know she'd be trouble in a built up area. My neighbour walks her dog in public areas off the lead, and he is fantastic. Not a bother on either of them. It's really down to the owner and how well they train the dog.

hadook

Afaik dog can be offlead if it's not one of the listed breeds and is under effectual control at all times.

If an offlead dog bites another dog, a kid or gets hit by a car the owner can be sued for damages.

I hate people with offlead dogs - one of my danes is petrified of all things new & dogs bounding up to him do not help at all. There's a pom not far from here that has been known to follow us trying to nip at me & the dogs. The "owner" told me that my dog "is vicious" because "all of them big dogs are" and if my dog bit the pom he'd be blamed because of the size difference but it's "ok" if it goes the other way because the pom is "only little".

Unfortunately for the pom owner he'd never thought to get a dog license so he got a nice fine & has had regular visits from the dog warden to make sure his dog is under control for the last while & not out harrasing pedestrians.

doctor evil

Nightmare, and to think her kids will probaly be like that.

padi89

hadook wrote:

Afaik dog can be offlead if it's not one of the listed breeds and is under effectual control at all times.

If an offlead dog bites another dog, a kid or gets hit by a car the owner can be sued for damages.

I hate people with offlead dogs - one of my danes is petrified of all things new & dogs bounding up to him do not help at all. There's a pom not far from here that has been known to follow us trying to nip at me & the dogs. The "owner" told me that my dog "is vicious" because "all of them big dogs are" and if my dog bit the pom he'd be blamed because of the size difference but it's "ok" if it goes the other way because the pom is "only little".

Unfortunately for the pom owner he'd never thought to get a dog license so he got a nice fine & has had regular visits from the dog warden to make sure his dog is under control for the last while & not out harrasing pedestrians.

"I hate people with offlead dogs" Christ thats a bit harsh dont you think.A dogs behavior is highly reflective of their owners,if you are walking your dog and you see another dog near and you start getting freaked out,the exact same thing will happen to the dog.People that keep their dogs away from other dogs from day one are only asking for trouble.Dogs are social animals and need to meet other dogs on a regular basis so they become comfortable around their own kind.
There is a park near me in Galway and im up there everyday twice a day with my labrdor.I would say close to 90% of the dogs walked up there are off the lead its only the 10% that are on leads are the ones that are walked at the weekends(ignorant,lazy owners).I meet pretty much the same people everyday up there and none of the dogs are agressive at all because they are all well socialised around other dogs.Sure the dogs run up to one another but it does not mean its going to be an aggresive experience.
There is one woman that i meet up there now and again and she walks a really nice dog,its just a pity about her as an owner.The dog is kept vey tight on the lead,no room to smell scents,or run about.She carries a big stick with her and if another dog goes within 15ft of her she starts absolutly freaking out,waving the stick and shouting.The dog just stands there being pulled by the collar and starts getting freaked out,not in an agressive way just like WTF is goin on.If she has had a bad experience in the past ,fair enough,but being like this all the time is certainly never going to help.

doctor evil

Dogs can socialise while being on the lead.

Not every walker who keeps the dog on the lead is an ignortant lazy owner. What are ignorant lazy owners are those that just let their dogs wander and crap everywhere and just don`t give a **** about being responsible towards other users of open spaces.

eth0_

padi89 wrote:

A dogs behavior is highly reflective of their owners,if you are walking your dog and you see another dog near and you start getting freaked out,the exact same thing will happen to the dog.

It would help if you bothered to read his post properly before jumping in with your amateur animal psychology!

He said the other dog bounded up to his dog and was barking and snarling. That doesn't sound like a dog that just want's to 'be comfortable around its own kind'.

I was always under the impression that you have to keep a dog on it's lead unless you're in a park or other open area?

andy1249

Theres nothing wrong with having a dog of a lead , Dogs will be dogs , even if a fight breaks out usually none of em are hurt and both will walk away happy with the experience ,
Let your dog be a dog , as far as I can see from the above , your just projecting your own very human fears on to the poor creatures, who are probably only fretting because they sense your worry !!

padi89

doctor evil wrote:

Dogs can socialise while being on the lead.

Not every walker who keeps the dog on the lead is an ignortant lazy owner. What are ignorant lazy owners are those that just let their dogs wander and crap everywhere and just don`t give a **** about being responsible towards other users of open spaces.

If you read my post properly i said the 10% of people that that walk their dogs at the weekend.Never bother there arse all week then when "oh i got a day off,I must walk the dog".Then they think they own the place when they get up there ,tutting at every dog off its lead.Its nothing got to do with leads,its the idiot owners with their over reactions to other dogs.Without a doubt if its an agressive dog well then the owner should have it on a lead,but you cant say all dogs that are off a lead are a danger.

padi89

eth0_ wrote:

It would help if you bothered to read his post properly before jumping in with your amateur animal psychology!

He said the other dog bounded up to his dog and was barking and snarling. That doesn't sound like a dog that just want's to 'be comfortable around its own kind'.

I was always under the impression that you have to keep a dog on it's lead unless you're in a park or other open area?

I read his post perfectly clear ,what i was getting at was "i hate people that walk dogs off lead".That is the exact point im getting at "oh **** there is a dog off a lead gotta keep mine as far away as possible".I didnt know you had to be a pro to know the way dogs think,with 25 years of dog ownership i would be pretty sure as to the way dogs behave.Its not dog psychology its common sense mate.Oh and by the way its a forum people can jump in with their views anytime.Looking at the amount of posts you have you should know this.

hadook

padi89 wrote:

"I hate people with offlead dogs" Christ thats a bit harsh dont you think.A dogs behavior is highly reflective of their owners,if you are walking your dog and you see another dog near and you start getting freaked out,the exact same thing will happen to the dog.People that keep their dogs away from other dogs from day one are only asking for trouble.Dogs are social animals and need to meet other dogs on a regular basis so they become comfortable around their own kind.

I don't freak out. I have a rescue Dane that wasn't socalised as a puppy & he is not confident around dogs he does not know. I think I should be entitled to walk him down a footpath without other dog owners telling me it's fine to terrify him because their dogs are well socialised. He is on a lead & he is not fine so I'd like other dog owners to either have their dog on a lead or make sure their recall is 100%. My other 3 dogs are fine with meeting strange dogs but that doesn't mean I want dogs coming up to them offlead while they're being walked on lead either.

My dogs socalise with other dogs off lead in a secure park or field NOT on a walk down a road.

A friend of mine hit & killed a dog in drogheda last year. It was off lead & walking in front of its owner along the foothpath. It saw a dog on the other side of the road & ran across to say hello - right under the wheels of my friends car.

hadook

padi89 wrote:

I read his post perfectly clear ,what i was getting at was "i hate people that walk dogs off lead".That is the exact point im getting at "oh **** there is a dog off a lead gotta keep mine as far away as possible".

Usually I'm thinking "oh **** there is another dog off lead. I hope to god this one has an owner that will call it back before I have 16 stone of great dane attempting to use me as a human shield"

Or if I have one of the other dogs with me I'm thinking something along the lines of "it's funny how it's ok for the small to medium dogs to be offlead but if I were to let my large/giant dogs offlead the owners would be screaming bloody murder at me"

FranknFurter

padi89 wrote:

Dogs are social animals and need to meet other dogs on a regular basis so they become comfortable around their own kind............The dog is kept vey tight on the lead,no room to smell scents,or run about.

Get a long retractable lead, allows the dog to socialise and "smell the scents" when its appropriate, and still makes sure you are in control of your dog as you always should be. A dog who is not under the control of its owner has no buisness being in any public place lead or no lead, imho.

More accidents are caused by dogs running under cars, bikes, hurting people or property, than people realise. Simply because their owners are not in control of their dogs. If your dog dose'nt know that *you* are "pack leader", then you are not in control of your dog. Its. that. simple.

b

padi89

hadook wrote:

I don't freak out. I have a rescue Dane that wasn't socalised as a puppy & he is not confident around dogs he does not know. I think I should be entitled to walk him down a footpath without other dog owners telling me it's fine to terrify him because their dogs are well socialised. He is on a lead & he is not fine so I'd like other dog owners to either have their dog on a lead or make sure their recall is 100%. My other 3 dogs are fine with meeting strange dogs but that doesn't mean I want dogs coming up to them offlead while they're being walked on lead either.

My dogs socalise with other dogs off lead in a secure park or field NOT on a walk down a road.

A friend of mine hit & killed a dog in drogheda last year. It was off lead & walking in front of its owner along the foothpath. It saw a dog on the other side of the road & ran across to say hello - right under the wheels of my friends car.

One minute you say "i hate dogs owners that walk dogs offlead" next you say "My dogs socialise off lead in a park",so which is it one or the other.Like you ,my dog is onlead from once he leaves the house.The reason he is put onlead is because of the busy roads i have to walk along.Once i get up to my local park then he is let off the lead to have a run about himself under my supervision.Just because you have one dog that is nervous around other dogs does not mean that other walkers in the park should have to make a special exception for you, seeing as you have no problems letting your other dogs off lead up the park.

slumped

I never thought my original rant would spark off such a lively debate! Great to see!

S

peasant

I think it should be self-evident that every dog belongs on a lead as long as one is walking alongside traffic or in areas with lots of people and/or other distractions.

Given that your dog has a reasonable recall it should also be possible to let it off the lead once you have reached a safe area, to go exploring on its own and to get a chance to meet other dogs without (or with only minimum) human interference.

In an off-lead area / situation it used to be the case that all dogs would be off lead and if they weren't, it would be for a very specific reason...i.e. bitches in heat, dogs on recovery from an illness or dogs that just didn't get along with other dogs. In those cases it would be common courtesy to take your own dog on the lead until you had a chance to talk to the owner of the other dog and come to an agreement whether or not it could be ok to let both dogs off the lead or not and you would then act accordingly.

But these days it's different.
One the one hand you get dogs running off lead, whose owner has no control whatsoever over them and no interest in other dogs, other people or common courtesy and just doesn't give a sh*t.

Or you get panickstricken owners with their fashion accessories. These poor dogs have never been allowed to sniff another dogs' butt (ohmygod, ohmygod ..the bacteria), run and romp around (ohmygod, ohmygod ...the poor dog is getting all dirty). Due to that, they haven't got the first clue how to behave around other dogs and turn into snarling, foaming little monsters as soon as any other dog comes into sight, further affirming the owners' belief that all other dogs are just out to kill their poor lickle sweety-pooch, causing them to break out in total panic, yelling and screaming all over the place "put your monster on the lead" ...upsetting all and everybody within a mile.

Because of these two cases of idiots it has now come to a stage, where it is almost impossible to let your perfectly alright dog off the lead, because one way or anther it is always going to end in aggro. And event the best trained dog gets confused after a while, when it has no chance of meeting a "normal" dog anymore ...the disease is spreading.

We'll all just end up having to have our dogs on leads all the time and everywhere.

I hate these idiots!

eth0_

andy1249 wrote:

Theres nothing wrong with having a dog of a lead , Dogs will be dogs , even if a fight breaks out usually none of em are hurt and both will walk away happy with the experience ,

Yes there is. I don't want some mangey dog jumping up on me because its owner hasn't trained it properly. If your dog is vicious or badly behaved, it should be common courtesy to keep it on a lead so it won't bother other people/dogs.

Arcadian

It's this simple, if you don't have 100% control over your dog to ensure it won't harass others then you keep it on the lead at all times. Personally i think all dogs should be on leads all the time.

peasant

Arcadian wrote:

Personally i think all dogs should be on leads all the time.

Surely you MUST be joking ?

It is vital for dogs to interact with other dogs. From a young age onwards, the have to learn how to communicate with each other, they have to find their place within "dog society" and they need constant affirmation and correction by other dogs in order to become, be and stay (mentally) healthy individuals.

Inter-species communication and socialisation is VITAL for the wellbeing of a dog. Human interaction is only a poor substitute.

Propper doggy behaviour and communication can ONLY be displayed off the lead and without human interference (unless neccesitated by circumstances, i.e. keeping "proper control" of your dog).

By dragging our dogs past each other on a lead, we are not only denying them this important opportunity to learn and develop ...we are actually changing their behaviour for the worse.

Picture the now typical situation of two dogs meeting each other on a lead:
Your perfectly socialised dog meeting one of those that never had a chance at practising their communication skills.
Sure enough ..the other dog starts acting strangely. Either it just wants to meet and greet, starts pulling and is denied, or it gets aggressive, barks and foams and gets pulled on; or it is so frightened that it goes into hiding (if it is not automatically picked up by its owner anyway:mad: )

So ...either way you have an escalating situation. Mixed doggy signals being sent and received while irritated owners pull, shout and get tense. This in turn transfers to the dogs, winding them up one more notch ...they go into "defense mode" : ... my "master" is going into "fighting mode" I can smell his adrenalin and feel his tension, I must join in to help...

The end result is two totally wound up dogs, shouting and screaming at each other ...leads getting tangled ...owners shouting and screaming ...panic, pandemonium.

OK ...I'm exaggerating here ...but you know what I mean.

Every single meeting of dogs on the lead is frought with potential for misunderstandings ...simply because the dogs are not allowed to communicate in their own way but are restricted and overruled by their owner.

Over time these misunderstandings add up, behavioral patterns change (especially when the dog has no opportunity to correct its behaviour off lead) ... some dogs just go into "attack" mode every time they see another dog when they are on a lead, because they have "learned" over time, that this is just what happens whenever they meet another dog anyway...

And if enough other dogs ("normal" dogs) meet that kind of dog often enough, we will all end up with snarling and foaming monsters every time we go for a walk.

I'm not saying that no dog should be on a lead ever ...but wherever it is safe to do so (empty beaches, secure parks) ...please people, let your dog off the lead and persuade others to do the same, so that the dogs can have a "chat" in peace.

And as an aside:

Arcadian wrote:

if you don't have 100% control over your dog

How on earth are you supposed to train that control, if you don't let your dog off the lead sometime??

Arcadian

Simple, you can take your dogs to training classes or you can train them on flexi leads or long lines. I doubt any dog trainer would advocate letting your dog off lead in order to train it

peasant

Alright ...so you'd have all the dogs in a given training class interacting on flexi leads?

I take it you like macramee

My point is that you have to let your dog off the lead in order to facilitate proper doggy behaviour and doggy communication.

Therefore you need to train your dog to "behave" off the lead as well.

Furthermore a good dog - human relationship should be based on mutual trust and mutual understanding.

What amount of trust and understanding do you have in your dog, if you see the need to have it constantly tied to you?
What amount of trust in you as his leader can a dog develop when it is never allowed to make its own decisions?

hadook

padi89 wrote:

One minute you say "i hate dogs owners that walk dogs offlead" next you say "My dogs socialise off lead in a park",so which is it one or the other.Like you ,my dog is onlead from once he leaves the house.The reason he is put onlead is because of the busy roads i have to walk along.Once i get up to my local park then he is let off the lead to have a run about himself under my supervision.Just because you have one dog that is nervous around other dogs does not mean that other walkers in the park should have to make a special exception for you, seeing as you have no problems letting your other dogs off lead up the park.

I think there's a huge difference between bringing a dog for a walk and bringing them to the park to play and I mostly bring my dogs for walks, not to the park to play with other dogs. (There are a distinct shortage of other dog owners in the park at 6am for some reason ) I think we're doing pretty much the same things but that your dog goes to the park more? I bring my dogs out twice a day for walks & about 2/3 times a week to the park to play.

The park that I use to let my dogs offlead is small, totally enclosed & has nowhere for my dogs to go out of sight. I know pretty much every other dog owner there & I only let mine offlead if there are no strange dogs. If there is a dog there that I don't know I'll check with the owner first before letting mine off.

Maybe I am over sensitive about dogs being offlead but I own two great danes & other dogs often have a problem with them. Even the best socialised dog will be often be taken aback when 16 stone of muscle wanders by if they've never met a giant breed before. (Hell, even the owners are sometimes taken aback by them.)

Arcadian

peasant wrote:

My point is that you have to let your dog off the lead in order to facilitate proper doggy behaviour and doggy communication.

And my point is that a public park is not the place to carry out this training. I've incurred two large vets bills this year already because of people taking the idiotic view that it's ok to let their dogs off lead and just let them be knowing full well that their dogs are not obedient or friendly.

peasant

Arcadian

Sorry to hear that your dog has been attacked.

One question though: Has your dog ever had off-lead experiences with other dogs?
If not then I think it would be a very good idea for you to find a group of responsible dog owners with reasonably well behaved dogs with whom you could socialise your dog regularly off the lead.

Do you realise that being constantly on a lead radically alters a dogs ability to express itself properly (and correctly in doggy terms)? For starters it can't run away but gets dragged along whether it wants to or not. Should it be afraid of the other dog, it has no other chance but to go into "attack" mode hoping to scare that dog away (as it has no chance to run or just lie down and act submissively). If that other dog then misreads the signal as a true attack rather than as a defensive gesture it might take offense and counter attack ...and there's your next injury.
This of course is a vicious circle ...one bad experience increases the tension, causing another bad experience, further increasing the tension upt to the point where the on-lead dog isn't able any more to meet other dogs without freaking out completely.

When dogs meet off-lead there is a fairly rigid protocol of gestures and body language signals that they go through in order to establish rank quickly and quietly and to AVOID conflict.

When dogs meet on-lead these signals are hard to transmit, protocol isn't followed and offence taken ...conflict is the result. Especially so when the situation is made additionaly tension laden by a tense owner already expecting trouble.

No offence ...but in a way your dog being attcked MAY actually be your fault to some degree.

Give your dog a chance to become relaxed around other dogs off-lead, then you can become relaxed as well and meeting other dogs (even on lead with them off) shouldn't be a big affair any more.

Arcadian

No, my dog was attacked when walking off lead next to me and was set upon from behind so her socialisation or lack thereof doesn't really come into it as she never saw it coming.

Garth

Arcadian wrote:

No, my dog was attacked when walking off lead next to me and was set upon from behind so her socialisation or lack thereof doesn't really come into it as she never saw it coming.

Oh, I'm sure it's still your fault somehow.:rolleyes:

Because of all the dogs off-lead in my estate, I can't even walk my dog here. You end up with a trailing gang of mangey terriers. I have to drive her out to the canal or the lake so I can actually walk her. Sunday mornings everyone just opens their front doors and lets out their pups. How responsible, but hey dogs will be dogs, right. :mad:

Arcadian, you should have called the gards and sued the owner for the vet bills. These people don't care about anything except themselves, and possibly their money. Responsible owners should not be afraid to take their dogs out for walks or play because of lazy irresponsible people.

In Celbridge you can regularily see a woman drive up to castletown, let out her dogs and drive up the lane while the dogs run along side. How lazy can you get?

peasant

Garth, Arcadian

Don't get me wrong ...I'm with you (most of the way)

If I may remind you of my post on the previous page:

peasant wrote:

I think it should be self-evident that every dog belongs on a lead as long as one is walking alongside traffic or in areas with lots of people and/or other distractions.

Given that your dog has a reasonable recall it should also be possible to let it off the lead once you have reached a safe area, to go exploring on its own and to get a chance to meet other dogs without (or with only minimum) human interference.

In an off-lead area / situation it used to be the case that all dogs would be off lead and if they weren't, it would be for a very specific reason...i.e. bitches in heat, dogs on recovery from an illness or dogs that just didn't get along with other dogs. In those cases it would be common courtesy to take your own dog on the lead until you had a chance to talk to the owner of the other dog and come to an agreement whether or not it could be ok to let both dogs off the lead or not and you would then act accordingly.

But these days it's different.
One the one hand you get dogs running off lead, whose owner has no control whatsoever over them and no interest in other dogs, other people or common courtesy and just doesn't give a sh*t.

Or you get panickstricken owners with their fashion accessories. These poor dogs have never been allowed to sniff another dogs' butt (ohmygod, ohmygod ..the bacteria), run and romp around (ohmygod, ohmygod ...the poor dog is getting all dirty). Due to that, they haven't got the first clue how to behave around other dogs and turn into snarling, foaming little monsters as soon as any other dog comes into sight, further affirming the owners' belief that all other dogs are just out to kill their poor lickle sweety-pooch, causing them to break out in total panic, yelling and screaming all over the place "put your monster on the lead" ...upsetting all and everybody within a mile.

Because of these two cases of idiots it has now come to a stage, where it is almost impossible to let your perfectly alright dog off the lead, because one way or anther it is always going to end in aggro. And even the best trained dog gets confused after a while, when it has no chance of meeting a "normal" dog anymore ...the disease is spreading.

We'll all just end up having to have our dogs on leads all the time and everywhere.

I hate these idiots!

I just don't think that keeping all dogs on leads all the time, anywhere, is the solution either

rogue-entity

My experience with dogs is that most of them tend to be friendly and social. There are times when it is appropriate for them to be on a lead and times when they can be left off a lead. If you are walking him along footpaths, a lead is a must if only to keep your dog from running accross the road. It is perfectly fine to leave your dog off the lead in a secure area or an open beach as long as your dog is well socialised with people and children. I know where one of my teachers and his children were attacked by dogs on a beach once. The dogs were either strays or the owners just did not know or care. But they went for his kids. That sort of thing should not be allowed to happen.

I dont mind dogs being off-lead provided that the owner can keep the dog close to them, and be able to call it back if needbe. It is really down to how the owner trains the dog. I would keep mine on a lead until I got to a place where it was okay to let him off it. Especialy as I live near a main road, and between my neighbours and I, we have lost many cats to that road.

What used to really annoy me was my next-door neighbours dogs always chasing my cat, now I know you are all going to tell me it is in there nature and that they cant help it, but you are wrong. The two bitches never went near the cats at all. And I got the other one to stop.

What annoys me even more is dog owners that let there dogs s*** everywhere and dont even consider cleaning up after them. I am sure that is something that annoys most people.

karlin

From control of dogs act:

Your dog must be accompanied by and be under your effective control or the control of another responsible person if it is outside your home or premises or the home or premises of the person in charge of it.

and

Stray dogs are dogs that are in a public place and are not accompanied by the owner or a responsible person. Dogs that are not under proper control are also considered stray dogs. You can receive an on-the-spot fine if your dog is not under proper control. Stray dogs may be seized by the dog warden and the Gardai and brought to the local dog pound. These dogs may be put down or disposed of if their owners do not claim them within 5 days.

from http://oasis.gov.ie/environment/control_of_dogs.html

In my experience very few people with dogs off lead on footpaths (as opposed to in open areas in a park) have them 'under effective control'. For that matter neither do most people in parks -- which is a huge nuisance as you end up having to wait til other people come retrieve their dog physically as they shout and shout at it when it comes to meet your own dogs then starts to follow your own and won't leave them alone... :rolleyes:

While 90% of encounters may go fine with dogs off lead, I cannot believe it is right to suggest dogs should ever 'just be allowed to fight it out'. Many of us have smaller dogs that are extremely friendly and would be killed in moments by an aggressive large dog. Even a giant breed or large breed puppy that is just playing can accidentally seriously injure a small breed. In my area of the city we've had several serious injuries and deaths from such encounters, all between smaller friendly gentle dogs and some larger aggressive breeds not under control.

That said in two and a half years of walking weekly or usually more often in the Phoenix Park at all times of the day, I've never had a problem with other dogs including some on the restricted list. I do have sympathies for people with dogs that have problems walking in public but alternatively, I think perhaps that is something that needs to be addressed with expert consultation in a safe environment, not on open walks with others supposed to make way for the affected dog (having been told yesterday morning that I had to take MY dogs down a side street so a woman with a hopelessly aggressive and stressed out Kerry Blue could go past me makes me understand exactly how annoying this is -- if HER dog has the problem, then why can't SHE find an alternative route?!). I don't think there's much difference if you have a dog that is either aggressive or badly soicalised or traumatised by other dogs, meeting other dogs off lead (or on lead for that matter) on the streets or in a large park. It would seem pretty traumatic to place such a dog into a potentially risky or stressful environment on public walks, rather than work to address those fear or aggression issues in a safer less stressful environment. I've seen some extraordinary changes in such dogs even in a weekend seminar with a professional, positive-approach trainer.

As for the woman with the dog on her bike -- that is one pig-headed and ignorant woman. She is putting other people's animals, perhaps other children, and her dog at risk as clearly he wasn't under appropriate control (lacking self control).

I'd hate to see Ireland turn into what many places in the US are now like -- dogs only allowed off lead in little sanitised dog parks and you end up having to make 'play dates' for your dogs to let them socialise happily. Instead, as a dog owner I for one would love to see good legislation on cleaning up after your dog and having dogs under control enforced, not new pointless restrictions introduced.

Liesia

I don't think that dogs should be allowed off the lead in streets. I have close friends who are terrified of dogs and one in particular who can't walk to the shop because of neighbours who let their dogs loose on the road. Owners who can't wait til they get to the park etc to leave their dogs off the lead are either inconsiderate of people who don't like/are terrified of dogs of else they can't control their dog long enough to get them to the park. I personally love dogs but I have to recognise that other people don't and just because I know that my dog is well trained doesn't mean the old lady carrying her shopping home who is scared of dogs knows that too ( and I have seen an old lady in this position drop her shopping bag and fall over whole panicking to cross the street from an approaching dog).

padi89

KARLIN"While 90% of encounters may go fine with dogs off lead, I cannot believe it is right to suggest dogs should ever 'just be allowed to fight it out'. Many of us have smaller dogs that are extremely friendly and would be killed in moments by an aggressive large dog. Even a giant breed or large breed puppy that is just playing can accidentally seriously injure a small breed. In my area of the city we've had several serious injuries and deaths from such encounters, all between smaller friendly gentle dogs and some larger aggressive breeds not under control."

Why do you put "Agressive" with large breeds and "Gentle" with small breeds?
No offense intended but its a bit of an poor remark to make.I have owned many Dogs in the last 25 years, large and small ,and from my experience its always been the likes of terriers that have been the most agressive,but im not saying all terriers are like this.If you feel intimidated by a larger breed then its your poor judgement to assume that large dogs are more agressive.