Driving on 1st Provisonal

Vegeta

Stekelly wrote:

Just becasue you feel you can pick and choose to obey certain laws to suit yourself doesnt make it right. Can I break a few if it makes my life a bit easier day to day?

What would you do if you couldnt afford a car? die because the shop was too far away to go? No you'd adapt. Get a bike.

Never broke a speed limit no??? failed to use an indicator on a roundabout, even once??? You take the moral high ground even though I can gurantee you have broke the law while driving just as I have

Also I didn't have a car in college, I walked from campus accomodation to college everyday. My parents have a car also so they generally shopped when I was in college. I never said i didn't live near a shop either just not the college

Blut

Big Nelly wrote:

No its not, and yes I need the car for work

Yes, but what about people who need their cars for college? Or for a job that wont provide them with a letter? It isnt really practical for most people to stay off the roads for 11 months while waiting on your test, then another 11 months after that if (and chances are pretty high you will) you fail.

Great advice, tell him to break the law, hence why I would love the Garda to have the power to ban these 75% of people. All of these 75% don't need the car they are spinning around in and it will cut the traffic congestion in city centre

Realistically speaking its at pretty much the same level as jaywalking in terms of how its enforced.

I'm not denying its technically illegal, or that its 'wrong' or whatnot, I'm simply telling the OP how the system actually works in the real world. You seem to be caught up in the morality of it rather than providing him the honest answer to his question.

gline

this law is crazy in ireland

my mam was actually told by her instructer that she should practice, she told him that she cannot get someone to be in the car with her all the time, he told her to "tell the police if she was stopped that her friend that is usually in the car with her wasnt able to make it and she needed to get to work".


That is crazy the instructer telling her to say that

there is a big problem in this country - laws not being enforced.

Personally I think they should get rid of the whole provisional license system, you should have to prove you have done a certain amount of lessons etc and speed up the test waiting period and that should encourage more to get their full license

But at the moment you cant blame people for driving on 1st provisionals, as the waiting period for a test is crazy, and if you have to commute a long distance to work it is a necessity

Though i suppose at the end of the day it is illgal and you run the risk of being prosecuted, so it is not advisable to "chance your arm"

on another point, what is the penalty for being caught on a 1st provisional driving alone??

Big Nelly

Vegeta wrote:

Ok there were some serious generalisations there but aside from them, you are right I don't need my car for work I need it to get to work. I could use public transport but when the garda don't enforce the law why should I. Yeah its illegal but so is speeding and a lot of other things and I suppose you're going to tell me you have never driven a car over the speed limit in you life. If you have then you shouldn't be on the road either

So in other words you don't need the car to get to work, your just to lazy to get public transport. I have gone over speed limit, nothing major but havent got a penalty point yet. It might amaze you but there is proper drivers in this country. We don't all hop into our car and break every law possible. You on the other hand get into a car without a licensed driver...one law broke....then you speed....second law, God knows what else you do when your "driving"

Vegeta wrote:

I very rarely speed and it is amazing how many drivers will drive way too close to the rear of my car, definitely not safe distances, they brake the rules of the road and are generally full licenced drivers. The craziest driving I have ever seen is always by full licenced drivers. I have yet to see a micra with L plates doing about 150 kph overtaking on a hill while crossing a solid white line but saw 2 guys doing it friday

Well the Micra wouldnt be able to go that fast is prob why you never see it:D

Vegeta wrote:

The problem is enforcement, if I knew that every time i got in the car there was a very strong chance I would be pulled over and fined then I wouldn't speed, drive without a full licence or break any rule of the road. I drive on the N7 and N20 every morning for about 12 miles and have never seen a guard there in 7 months. Joke, Bertie says Irish people need a greater belief/pride in their community, I say we need something greater to believe in, I have no faith in anything to do with the government. Tax, licences, garda, public transport, hospitals. They have all let me down badly in the past and have not been improved upon.

Usually Irish attitude, sure if I can get away with it I will continue to break the law. This is why I would love the Garda to ban people, you cry about the Garda not being able to enforce but I bet as soon as they are you would br crying because now you have to use public transport and you have to get up a few mins earlier to get to work on time

Jumpy

For anyone interested, this the NSW Australia license information page.
I believe this system is one of the best I have seen in my travels.
Specifically the Learner, P1 and P2 licenses and the vehicle restrictions.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/index.html

Pigeon Reaper

Enforcement of the law is the problem as others have pointed out. Irish society does not take raod safety seriousl resulting in many crashes both minor and serious. A number of earlier posts on this topic have highlighted this clearly. The rules of the road are here for a reason. If two people break minor rules either by mistake or intentionally it can often cause a crash. Speeding just compounds the severity.

No driver is perfect but the difference between a full licence and provisional is a full licence holder has proven that they are of a certain level. This of course is not the end of their learning and every driver should try to improve constantly. A learner may not even be aware of their mistakes this is why they should not drive alone. In most EU countries this is the case with our system being the exeception.

Saying the test waiting time is so long is not an excuse. It has been this way for a number of years. Anyone who is on their first licence knows this and should have applied as soon as possible for the test before they felt they needed to drive to get from A-B. Most learners drive by themselves for conveniance as it's easier than trying to arrange other transport or a licenced driver. As a user of public transport it is bad but still usable. If you can't use public transport how did you get around before the car?

gline

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

Most learners drive by themselves for conveniance as it's easier than trying to arrange other transport or a licenced driver. As a user of public transport it is bad but still usable. If you can't use public transport how did you get around before the car?

what if you live in an area with little to no public transport

also why would a full driver license folder sit in the car with you and go everywhere with you when they can drive themselves?? It is sometimes next to impossible to get someone to sit in the car with you..

Big Nelly

Blut wrote:

Yes, but what about people who need their cars for college? Or for a job that wont provide them with a letter? It isnt really practical for most people to stay off the roads for 11 months while waiting on your test, then another 11 months after that if (and chances are pretty high you will) you fail.

Why would you need your car for college? walk or get a bike. I never needed a car when I went to college. Second college I was living outside of the town and couldnt really get travel in each day so I moved into the town, got a job and paided my way thru college. I never had enough cash to buy a car. Problem now is with parents earning more they are buying little Jonny a car so he can drive his little mates around the neighbourhood even thou he could walk if he wasnt a lazy s***.

Nobody in there right mind needs a car for college because all college are in major towns etc. which will have public transport into and out of etc. You dont need a car

Also people that say they need a car to drive to work are a joke, most companies are again in major cities so public transport etc is provided.

I actually hate that I need my car, it means I have to be up at 6 to get into work on time in the city centre because of the amount of cars on the road. Would be alot easier to get the train(5 mins from house and 5 mins walk from office) but I can't

Big Nelly

gline wrote:

what if you live in an area with little to no public transport

Well your location is Dublin, southside so you have no problems with getting public transport there? so do you have a full license? if not do you drive illegally instead of getting the train/bus?

gline wrote:

also why would a full driver license folder sit in the car with you and go everywhere with you when they can drive themselves?? It is sometimes next to impossible to get someone to sit in the car with you..

Havent a clue what your first sentance is supposed to mean, plenty of full license drivers dont mind sitting with a learner driver to help them. I have no problems teaching people to drive, we are not all monsters!

gline

Big Nelly wrote:

Well your location is Dublin, southside so you have no problems with getting public transport there? so do you have a full license? if not do you drive illegally instead of getting the train/bus?



Havent a clue what your first sentance is supposed to mean, plenty of full license drivers dont mind sitting with a learner driver to help them. I have no problems teaching people to drive, we are not all monsters!

no i get a luas and then a bus to work (1.5hours each way, 3 hours travel a day).

Also i know how hard it is to find someone to sit in the car when you are learning, as i was gettting lessons at one stage and preparing for a test and it was impossible, i couldnt get anyone, so in the end i had to cancel the test as i couldnt afford all the lessons I was paying for

pontovic

Heres what I think

Don't drive on a provisional licence unless you really have to. I know that's not what you want to hear, but unless it's absolutely necessary, I wouldnt do it. I got myself a VW polo about a year ago now and started working out in Citywest. I live in Howth, so that's a 45 mile journey everyday, and there was no way it was feasible to get there and back everyday using public transport. I took a risk. I went out on my own on my 1st provisional and I drove to work everyday. I flauted the law but I had no other way of getting to work. I have my full licence now. If I had been in an accident, I would have been in trouble. If you are going to go out, make sure you are comfortable driving in all conditions ( get plenty of lessons, ask people everything always ask! ).

I would object to learner drivers being on the road if we had a proper testing system here, like they do in America, where you can walk into a testing center in the morning, sit and wait 40 mins, and you are then ready to do your test right there and then. Unfortunately, for my testing center, the wait is 13 months !
I would also object to 1st provisional drivers on the road if it was feasible for people to start learning to drive when they were younger, under greater restriction. This was not the case for me. My insurance would have been far too high at that age. I wasn't a rich kid who was given a car for their 17th birthday. I could only afford to start driving when I was 22 years old. Unfortunately here, insurance costs are way too high and there is no real encouragement for young people to drive. When I was in school here there was no such thing as driver education and there still isn't !!

The attitude to driving here really needs to change. We need to sort out the mess in the driver testing system.

The law that allows anyone with a provisional licence on the road alone, regardless of wether it's their first or second, needs to be abolished. All provisional drivers need to be accompnaied and this law must be enforced, but first, we need to reduce driving test waiting lists. We need to prosecute drink drivers. We need to make alot of changes

Pigeon Reaper

gline wrote:

what if you live in an area with little to no public transport

QUOTE]
How did all the people on provisionals get around before they got their first provisional licence in areas like this? How have the older methods of transport suddenly become impossible to use?

Big Nelly

gline wrote:

no i get a luas and then a bus to work (1.5hours each way, 3 hours travel a day).

At least there is a few on here, it takes me around the sametime going in and out in car:mad: and that depends if I get out of work about 4.30 for the mad race across town before the traffic is really mental

gline wrote:

Also i know how hard it is to find someone to sit in the car when you are learning, as i was gettting lessons at one stage and preparing for a test and it was impossible, i couldnt get anyone, so in the end i had to cancel the test as i couldnt afford all the lessons I was paying for

I never had a problem and always try and help people out. Just tell them that sometimes I lose the rag but for them just to tell me to "fcuk off" and don' take it personally, usually it is with some other idiot on the road:D

How did all the people on provisionals get around before they got their first provisional licence in areas like this? How have the older methods of transport suddenly become impossible to use?

From personal experience in Dublin once someone gets over the age of 10 they have to have a moped or something like that to get to school, also if there is a sign of a cloud in the sky mammy has to get the SUV out to bring little jonny to school in case he gets wet......or his ipod get broken

maidhc

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

How did all the people on provisionals get around before they got their first provisional licence in areas like this?

With great difficulty and inconvenience to others I assure you. When you are insured to drive it is less acceptable to start bumming lifts of you mother, brother and sister.

The fact is that

a) Waiting lists are far too long
b) For this reason (I presume) the gardaí do generally not enforce the accompanied driver rule, even if you crash.
c) The insurance companies pay out, even if you are unaccompanied. I believe they have made public that this is their position on this matter.

If waiting lists were 4/6 weeks, then i believe the law should be enforced. At present it is impractical to do so. It would be nice if people were less self-righteous about the matter.

Bluetonic

Big Nelly wrote:

I have gone over speed limit, nothing major but havent got a penalty point yet

Big Nelly wrote:

and that depends if I get out of work about 4.30 for the mad race across town before the traffic is really mental

The whacky races spring to mind :rolleyes:

Anyone know if you can drive alone on a 5th provisional by the way

gline

maidhc wrote:

With great difficulty and inconvenience to others I assure you. When you are insured to drive it is less acceptable to start bumming lifts of you mother, brother and sister.

The fact is that

a) Waiting lists are far too long
b) For this reason (I presume) the gardaí do generally not enforce the accompanied driver rule, even if you crash.
c) The insurance companies pay out, even if you are unaccompanied. I believe they have made public that this is their position on this matter.

If waiting lists were 4/6 weeks, then i believe the law should be enforced. At present it is impractical to do so. It would be nice if people were less self-righteous about the matter.

totally agree.
BUT if you do drive alone on a 1st provisional you are breaking the law and have to be aware that there may be consequences, also if you do have a serious crash you will have to live with that:(

Vegeta

Big Nelly wrote:

So in other words you don't need the car to get to work, your just to lazy to get public transport. I have gone over speed limit, nothing major but havent got a penalty point yet. It might amaze you but there is proper drivers in this country. We don't all hop into our car and break every law possible. You on the other hand get into a car without a licensed driver...one law broke....then you speed....second law, God knows what else you do when your "driving"

Well the Micra wouldnt be able to go that fast is prob why you never see it:D

Usually Irish attitude, sure if I can get away with it I will continue to break the law. This is why I would love the Garda to ban people, you cry about the Garda not being able to enforce but I bet as soon as they are you would br crying because now you have to use public transport and you have to get up a few mins earlier to get to work on time

For all you know I could be a much more competent driver than you, how would you ever know. Also I assume you never drove alone on a first provisional.

I would have no problem using public transport if I knew my test would be in like 2 weeks or even 4 weeks but 10 months is a joke and I don't care if I break this law and I will continue to do so

Vegeta

pontovic wrote:

Heres what I think

Don't drive on a provisional licence unless you really have to. I know that's not what you want to hear, but unless it's absolutely necessary, I wouldnt do it. I got myself a VW polo about a year ago now and started working out in Citywest. I live in Howth, so that's a 45 mile journey everyday, and there was no way it was feasible to get there and back everyday using public transport. I took a risk. I went out on my own on my 1st provisional and I drove to work everyday. I flauted the law but I had no other way of getting to work. I have my full licence now. If I had been in an accident, I would have been in trouble. If you are going to go out, make sure you are comfortable driving in all conditions ( get plenty of lessons, ask people everything always ask! ).

I would object to learner drivers being on the road if we had a proper testing system here, like they do in America, where you can walk into a testing center in the morning, sit and wait 40 mins, and you are then ready to do your test right there and then. Unfortunately, for my testing center, the wait is 13 months !
I would also object to 1st provisional drivers on the road if it was feasible for people to start learning to drive when they were younger, under greater restriction. This was not the case for me. My insurance would have been far too high at that age. I wasn't a rich kid who was given a car for their 17th birthday. I could only afford to start driving when I was 22 years old. Unfortunately here, insurance costs are way too high and there is no real encouragement for young people to drive. When I was in school here there was no such thing as driver education and there still isn't !!

The attitude to driving here really needs to change. We need to sort out the mess in the driver testing system.

The law that allows anyone with a provisional licence on the road alone, regardless of wether it's their first or second, needs to be abolished. All provisional drivers need to be accompnaied and this law must be enforced, but first, we need to reduce driving test waiting lists. We need to prosecute drink drivers. We need to make alot of changes

This guy speaks sense

Carb

Big Nelly wrote:

Also people that say they need a car to drive to work are a joke, most companies are again in major cities so public transport etc is provided.

Priceless:D

Big Nelly

Bluetonic wrote:

The whacky races spring to mind :rolleyes:

Anyone know if you can drive alone on a 5th provisional by the way

Mad race across town usual at average speed if lucky of 10mph. Its trying to get across town without some idiot learner driver taking the wing off your car;)

5th? can you go as far as a 5th one?

For all you know I could be a much more competent driver than you, how would you ever know. Also I assume you never drove alone on a first provisional.

I would have no problem using public transport if I knew my test would be in like 2 weeks or even 4 weeks but 10 months is a joke and I don't care if I break this law and I will continue to do so

Did I say you where a bad driver? no I said you where an illegal driver. Doesn't matter if your the best driver in the World you are still not legal to be on the roads.

just as a matter of interet how long are you driving? what provisional are you on?

Vegeta

Big Nelly wrote:

Mad race across town usual at average speed if lucky of 10mph. Its trying to get across town without some idiot learner driver taking the wing off your car;)

5th? can you go as far as a 5th one?



Did I say you where a bad driver? no I said you where an illegal driver. Doesn't matter if your the best driver in the World you are still not legal to be on the roads.

just as a matter of interet how long are you driving? what provisional are you on?

I'm 22 driving 6 weeks, 1st provisional and been getting public transport/lifts to work for the last 2 years. Will be waiting for test until probably xmas. Getting lifts to college every sunday night for 4 years, finally snapped and said fvck it I don't care if i am caught

Litcagral

pontovic wrote:

The law that allows anyone with a provisional licence on the road alone, regardless of wether it's their first or second, needs to be abolished. All provisional drivers need to be accompnaied and this law must be enforced,

Good post pontovic except for the above line. What about categories A, A1, M & W? It would be a bit difficult to be accompanied in these.

gline

Litcagral wrote:

Good post pontovic except for the above line. What about categories A, A1, M & W? It would be a bit difficult to be accompanied in these.

i think we are really just talking about B licenses here, that is probably what pontovic meant

Arathorn

Ya I agree with everything Pontovic says, easy for Big Nelly and the like to get on there high horse when they already have their full licence. Just curious Big Nelly how many lessons did you take and how many accompanied hours did you put in driving before you passed your test? or were you born with the ability? In my opinion you need a lot of practice to before you could pass your test, and not everyone can afford to take endless lessons or has someone available to sit in a car with them for hours. Myself, I have had about 12 lessons (thats over €350) and get my dad to sit in with me for hours on end and I still feel I need more practice to pass, thats not saying im not very careful driver cos I am. Now I drive to the supermarket etc by myself for the practice and dont feel guilty about it. And what about all the people who got their full licence without sitting any test back in the day? I've never seen the news to say the accident was caused by a learner driver on his first provisional. He was not accompanied by a full licence holder. It usually involves drink, something I will never do.

Big Nelly

Vegeta wrote:

I'm 22 driving 6 weeks, 1st provisional and been getting public transport/lifts to work for the last 2 years. Will be waiting for test until probably xmas. Getting lifts to college every sunday night for 4 years, finally snapped and said fvck it I don't care if i am caught

So your 6 weeks on the road and you think it is ok for you to drive around without anybody? how many lessons? you do realise you probably haven't a clue how to drive proper. There is no way after 6 weeks anyone would be able to drive correctly. I wonder what you would do if something out of the ordinary happened? what the bets if it was me I woud prob get out without an accident where as you have no experience so would prob wrap everything in sight

Just curious Big Nelly how many lessons did you take and how many accompanied hours did you put in driving before you passed your test? or were you born with the ability? In my opinion you need a lot of practice to before you could pass your test, and not everyone can afford to take endless lessons or has someone available to sit in a car with them for hours. Myself, I have had about 12 lessons (thats over €350) and get my dad to sit in with me for hours on end and I still feel I need more practice to pass,

Well from a young age I was driving farm vehicles, you can get license for them at 16. Then I started in my fathers jeep and he was with me/or my brother all of the time. After that was in college so didnt need car, then I got job so put in for test and got next month. Hadn't my own car at that stage so brother took me out to refresh me on driving. Then went for 4 lessons. Two right before test and passed.

Wasn't so hard now was it?

Jood

I applied for my test this time last year and still havent received a date :rolleyes:
However I agree that no one can drive properly after six weeks on the road I'm driving 18 months now still on a provisional and its only now that I feel I can drive properly and confidently.
We can agrue this point untill the cows come home but it always come down to the fact that the waiting times are two long and until something is done about this nothings going to change.

Pigeon Reaper

Litcagral wrote:

Good post pontovic except for the above line. What about categories A, A1, M & W? It would be a bit difficult to be accompanied in these.

You are expressly forbidden from carrying passengers while on a provisional licence in these categories. However there are plans to introduce compulsary training in some of these categories to bring down the death rate. Most Training for these is done off road and then on road with the use of radios. Next time you see a bike at the lights see how the riders feet(left foot on ground, right covering brake) are positioned this is an indication if they had instruction.

I completely agree with Jood. Personally I'd like the German testing system introduced here.

Garth

Arathorn wrote:

Ya I agree with everything Pontovic says, easy for Big Nelly and the like to get on there high horse when they already have their full licence.

Yes, we magically obtained these through the power of positive thinking.

The country I got my licence in, it would have been idiotic to drive on a learner's. If caught, 1 year suspension and any driving experience/tuition prior to that would no longer count towards your gradutated licence. You pass your road test and you get a level 2 graduated licence which means you can travel on your own on some roads (not motorways) and not at night. That lasts I believe for a year after you pass your test. Also 0 tolerance for drink driving.

Its more complicated than all that but it's been a while my memory is poor. heh.

In college I worked out in the country and had room and board, about 8 miles from the uni and hitchhiked/got lifts every day. I had a full licence, that wasn't the problem I couldn't afford a car. Still did it. Didn't kill me either.

Driving isn't a right but a priviledge.

Tell me this -- for the provisional drivers -- if you sit your test and fail will you then be happy enough to be accompanied knowing then that you are not competent to drive on your own or will you cry and scream they failed you for something stupid and continue to drive on your own because youre a good driver despite being deemed unfit. Hm?

Blut

Moving away from the right or wrongs of it anyway, despite Big Nellys best efforts - I think its been established for the OP that he most likely wont get in any trouble by driving around on his own so he shouldnt be afraid of doing so.

Arathorn

Big Nelly wrote:

Well from a young age I was driving farm vehicles, you can get license for them at 16. Then I started in my fathers jeep and he was with me/or my brother all of the time. After that was in college so didnt need car, then I got job so put in for test and got next month. Hadn't my own car at that stage so brother took me out to refresh me on driving. Then went for 4 lessons. Two right before test and passed.

Wasn't so hard now was it?

Driving a farm vehicle is hardly the same as being on the roads, and only 4 lessons, sorry but i seriously doubt you have never driven alone before you got your licence. Even if I believe you, your cocky attitude to driving can lead to accidents just as easy as inexperience can