I may not be popular for saying this but...

sportswear

raiser that is a stunning post.


i actually can't believe how many people are such dickheads.

i just don't know where to start.


so i'm not going to.

edanto

Julesie, I agree with all of your post, but I'd add that I think it is our place - nay, responsibility - to find a solution to this inequality.

We have to look at our background and our skills (to paraphrase Mr. Mandela) and see what we can do. It's not just about giving money, it's about convincing our politicians to use their international influence to change the trade rules or cancel more debt, for example.

As well as a hundred other things, most of which I haven't thought of. If anyone cares enough, it's easy to find ways to get involved. This is a political problem, but not really an attention grabber in the way that most news stories are.

It's a cliche to say that there are millions of people dying every day because of things like the hangover from colonialism, corporations and bad governance - but since that doesn't really change from day to day, it doesn't make the news.
[edit]
I don't give a huge amount of money to charity, I think there are better ways to make a difference and spend some time doing that. I'm reluctant to jabber on about that, since I'm not really doing it so that I can boast.

Mad Mike

Raiser wrote:

Genetic dead-ends like yourselves couldn't be self-sufficient beyond a 500 metre radius of Dominos - and no, its not a valid argument to say that misfortunates in famine devasted countries should ask Daddy for €15 euro and a lift in the Beemer to the nearest KFC.

Stunning Post Raiser. Cruel but spot on.

Aporia

As Julesie has said it's not just a case of give them money and everything will be okay It's the social problems.
Honestly, I don't care. I rarely think about it. The only times I do think and feel guilty is when an ad comes on t.v. or something.

People might say they care but what they're really doing is thinking of themselves. They need to get rid of their guilt for a while by handing over their money. It makes them feel better.

The only people we really care about in this world are our friends and family. It's sad, but true.

I'm not being mean here or a ''dickhead'' I'm being honest. People that give to charities and boast about it, make me sick. This reminds me of a story in the bible. I can't really remember it exactly but it was about someone in need. Rich men and women gave loads of money without any hassle at all. Then a poor woman gave just a penny. All she had. She was being the most generous of them all.

base2

You cretins are really going to regret having posted these ignorant statements on a public message board just as soon as your testicles drop and you realise that Mr. O'Briens maths test on Fridays is not in fact a critical issue or pressing current affair.

Come on, to have been through at least some portion of the Irish educational system we have to assume that you are in possession of at least some of the facts here [?] I can only assume age is a factor and that if Mum doesn't buy 12 packs of Walkers crisps and multiple 2 litre bottles of Coke that you slam doors, sulk and shout "its so unfair" all evening while stamping the Nike Air max that you begged Daddy-kins to buy you on the preceding Saturday.

Genetic dead-ends like yourselves couldn't be self-sufficient beyond a 500 metre radius of Dominos - and no, its not a valid argument to say that misfortunates in famine devasted countries should ask Daddy for €15 euro and a lift in the Beemer to the nearest KFC.

Thats pretty sad that you went to all that time to post that. Attack the post not the poster.

Ps. I'm more educated than you.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

base2 wrote:

Ps. I'm more educated than you.

lol To the Thunderdome!!!!!!;)

BOHS

Couldn't have said it better myself Raiser

edanto

Beer is Life wrote:

Why do you assume you know anything about me?

We only know what you post. You've said that you won't support any charity with money because some charities annoy you by asking for some time to solicit a donation as you go about your life.

What else do you want to tell us?

Do you give a sh1t about the third world?

Typical do gooder rant :rolleyes:

So, if he's a do gooder and you're not, what does that make you? A do badder? Is beer really everything to you? What makes you tick?

base2, if you're so educated, how can you suggest that the solution to world poverty is "If they want the good life they can go and make it for themselves." Care to share your ideas for how that would work?

Julesie

edanto wrote:

Julesie, I agree with all of your post, but I'd add that I think it is our place - nay, responsibility - to find a solution to this inequality.

We have to look at our background and our skills (to paraphrase Mr. Mandela) and see what we can do. It's not just about giving money, it's about convincing our politicians to use their international influence to change the trade rules or cancel more debt, for example.

I'd agree on issues like fair terms of trade or debt cancellation where it is most definitely within our remit to make things right and just. I guess i was referring to the other more tricky issues where it becomes the West imposing its idealogy on a continent that is very much its own. We have all seen first hand that this has not had the desired effect when implemented in places such as the middle east and id be very cautious about repeating the same mistake again.

simu

I don't worry about it constantly or give my last penny to aid organisations but yes, it does bother me quite a bit. I forget about it but then all it takes is a look in the paper to be reminded again. The problem is that there's not much I feel I can do apart from having a standing order with an aid agency, supporting Amnesty International and buying fair trade products now and then. But then again, I'm not always convinced how effective these measures are either - maybe they're just a way of salving a guilty conscience. On a broader level, I freak out at times and think most people in Ireland are living in a delusional state - we just keep consuming things gleefully as if we had endless resources on this planet and the evidence of impending disaster is all around us. Maybe not in our lifetimes but soon enough at least. And what kind of a species are we that we couldn't get our act together and make a decent attempt at basic living standards for all of us! We're scum, maybe we deserve to become extinct but on the other hand, it seems like a great pity too. Aaaaaaargh!

edanto

The perception that there's nothing to be done other than what you mentioned is a bit of a problem, but there are few things you could do if you had the time.

If you are looking for something to do, there's a bunch of charities that would love people to volunteer some time and help them out.

The more people that do that, more equal the world will become. Other simple things, like writing to your local TD and asking them what they're doing about it will have an effect.

TDs log and chart all the things that people contact them about and respond accordingly. Not proportionately - there's other interests and priorities (different thread!), but everyone can have an impact on the political agenda.

On the whole, I think the majority of people are good natured, and we're one of the first generations to get a good realisation of just how unbalanced the world is economically - so it's our opportunity to do something about it. Whether we choose to or not is exactly that - a choice - and I'm trying to encourage anyone else that wants to get involved.

The Doktor

Just think about what you have said…. You don’t care…not that you don’t give to charity, not that you don’t want to help….YOU DON’T CARE..
Do you not care about these people too? These are people who have been killed at the hands of other people, just like in Africa.

 9,000,000-11,000,000 Poles, Jews, Russians, Communists, Homosexuals, Mentally ill, Gypsies, Disabled, Intelligentsia, Jehovah`s Witnesses, Clergy, Trade Unionists, Political Activists murdered by the Nazis
 estimated 1,400,000 Armenians murdered in the Ottoman empire
 AT LEAST 25,000,000 Military dead during ww2 (Combined, US, UK, USSR, German…etc etc)
 about 150,000 dead in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the year after the US dropped fat man and little boy.
 180,000 civilians killed in Japan from US fire bombing
 500,000 Children and 500,000 adults dead due to sanctions against Iraq
 nearly 2,500 US soldiers and 34,000 Iraqi civilians killed in the current Iraq war
 1,000,000 people killed in Iran/Iraq war
 1,000,000 died in the Mexican revolution
 1,700,000 killed in the vietnam war
 1,400,000 dead in civil war in Ethiopia
 At least 1,600,000 killed by the Khmer Rouge
At least 20,000 soviet and 1,000,000 Afghan/Mujahideen in the Soviet Afghan war
 20,000,000 killed during Stalins regime
 40,000,000 killed during Mao Tse-Tungs regime in China
The above figures are lowest estimations
I haven`t given figure for dead due to man made famine, disease etc in Africa.. but we know its millions too


Please, just look at the numbers.. and think about what you are saying

Amazotheamazing

base2 wrote:

Ps. I'm more educated than you.

How is that relevant?

mountainyman

Degsy wrote:

As Mariah Carey once said "whenever i see programmes about africa,i cry.I mean,i wouldnt mind being that thin but not with all the flies and everything!"

Is that true:
Most people care a little bit enough to give money to charity once in a while.
Some don't care and do nothing
Some do care and do alot.

What does caring mean like sit in my room cutting myself because their are starving children in Africa.

edanto I don't see how the problems of the third world are my responsibility and I am sure that if I tried to fix it I would **** it up worse.

Doktor I don't know what you are talking about there are some things that are in the past and some things that are in the present.
Past means already happened
Present means happening now
Past
Present


EMOSucksBalls EMOSucksBalls EMOSucksBalls EMOSucksBalls

Archeron

Aporia wrote:

As Julesie has said it's not just a case of give them money and everything will be okay It's the social problems.
Honestly, I don't care. I rarely think about it. The only times I do think and feel guilty is when an ad comes on t.v. or something.

People might say they care but what they're really doing is thinking of themselves. They need to get rid of their guilt for a while by handing over their money. It makes them feel better.

The only people we really care about in this world are our friends and family. It's sad, but true.

I'm not being mean here or a ''dickhead'' I'm being honest. People that give to charities and boast about it, make me sick. This reminds me of a story in the bible. I can't really remember it exactly but it was about someone in need. Rich men and women gave loads of money without any hassle at all. Then a poor woman gave just a penny. All she had. She was being the most generous of them all.

Its funny how people can sit there and do nothing and say its all down to social problems, our few Euros wont make a difference. To those who think that, you're bloody well wrong. Take the time to research some of the ongoing projects in the poorest parts of the world, and see the effect that this has on some of the people that live there. OK, some of the money will end up sucked into the vacuum of paperwork and admin, but not all. Where do you think this money goes? To the corrupt governments? No, it goes into projects that DO make a damn big difference to those who need it. The money given by doners goes to provide clean water pumps for entire towns and villages, to provide education on personal hygiene and disease, to build schools and hospitals and try, TRY to make life better for some. Well and good for you sitting in front of your computer to say that we cant make a difference. If you want a glass of water, can you get one? Or do you have to walk for four hours to access it, therefore denying you the time to educate yourself, therefore denying you your chance in college, therefore denying you your high paid job that provides your nice big house, nice new car, and nice new shiny computer that will allow you to sit down and respond to questions like this by saying "the only people we really care about is friends and family" The only people I can say are truly important to me are friends and family, but I dont know all these people living in dire poverty, so I cant say I share their personal grief, but to say we dont care is just a sign of the materialistic nature that this country is now riddled with. Given an option, would you take a new television, or save the lives of 5 poor people from Sierra Leone that you've never met, and never will? I suspect I know the answer.

"People might say they care but what they're really doing is thinking of themselves. They need to get rid of their guilt for a while by handing over their money. It makes them feel better."

Really? And does it make you feel better about the fact that you do nothing by accusing those who DO give a damn of only doing it for their own personal reasons? Thats just sad. I dont tell anyone what I donate, coz its none of their damn business, thats between me and the charities I support, but how dare you suggest that the only reason people do this is for personal emotional gain.

My reason for doing this is because I have respect for my fellow man, and I can at least partially understand the misery they suffer, and how we can do something to change it. I realize the fact that I have been born as one of the luckiest people in the world, and I realize the fact that it could so easily have been different, and it could be me sitting there, 8 years old dying of a combination of AIDs and starvation as my family die around me.

The money we give may only be a small amount, and it may only do a small amount of good, but if everyone in the world who does give stopped, what would happen? How many MORE people would die, above the tragic numbers we already see every day?

Yes its sickening when people boast about the money they donate, and I hate to see that. Whats even more sickening is when people actually seem to be proud of the fact that they do nothing, and dont care. You know those corrupt governments that everyone knows we must tackle before poverty can truly be ended? Well, guess what, its the latter type of people that make up those goverments. Be proud of yourself, and I just pray that you never become a global leader.

The Doktor

mountainyman wrote:

Is that true:


Doktor I don't know what you are talking about there are some things that are in the past and some things that are in the present.
Past means already happened
Present means happening now
Past
Present

Yeah ur right.. the children who died 5 mins ago are in the past..

HelterSkelter

September 1913 - William Butler Yeats

WHAT need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet they were of a different kind
The names that stilled your childish play,
They have gone about the world like wind,
But little time had they to pray
For whom the hangman's rope was spun,
And what, God help us, could they save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave;
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet could we turn the years again,
And call those exiles as they were,
In all their loneliness and pain
You'd cry 'Some woman's yellow hair
Has maddened every mother's son':
They weighed so lightly what they gave,
But let them be, they're dead and gone,
They're with O'Leary in the grave.

edanto

mountainyman wrote:

edanto I don't see how the problems of the third world are my responsibility and I am sure that if I tried to fix it I would **** it up worse.

Let's look at the second part first. That's pathetic - are you saying that you have so little belief in your ability to do anything, that you're just going to do nothing?

I don't believe that for a minute. I think that's a lame justification for you trying to hide the fact that you really don't care about people in the third world and you'd much rather pretend that you had a good reason for doing nothing.

At least be man enough to own up to not caring, instead of trying to worm your way out of it with pathos. uuuhhh I couldn't do anything... I'm just going to look away... it's not MY problem....

Perfect sig, btw

mount any man wrote:

This is not legal advice. Even if it sounds like legal advice don't rely on it; I am an idiot and give bad advice in general.

Degsy

Raiser wrote:

You cretins are really going to regret having posted these ignorant statements on a public message board just as soon as your testicles drop and you realise that Mr. O'Briens maths test on Fridays is not in fact a critical issue or pressing current affair.

Come on, to have been through at least some portion of the Irish educational system we have to assume that you are in possession of at least some of the facts here [?] I can only assume age is a factor and that if Mum doesn't buy 12 packs of Walkers crisps and multiple 2 litre bottles of Coke that you slam doors, sulk and shout "its so unfair" all evening while stamping the Nike Air max that you begged Daddy-kins to buy you on the preceding Saturday.

Genetic dead-ends like yourselves couldn't be self-sufficient beyond a 500 metre radius of Dominos - and no, its not a valid argument to say that misfortunates in famine devasted countries should ask Daddy for €15 euro and a lift in the Beemer to the nearest KFC.

I know, I know - you maintain these people should be planting kebab bushes and growing chicken-dippers trees. Perhaps they should invest in a garlic and herb dip machine so they can be really self-sufficient. If you were teleported to and subsequently stranded in a famine area I would expect 90 mins. of Nokia talk time as you desperately beg for a taxi, then in due course a dead battery - about 20 mins later your spotty white carcasses would be decomposing while repulsing passing vultures.

No Respect.

To the OP - You arugment is valid for more people than will ever admit to it. Personally I could do a lot more with ease, but often put it on a back burner or forget to follow up on a donation etc. This is not something I am proud of but I intend to do better in future.

Finally to those saying "oh yaw - you're only giving 'cause your rich and it makes your ego expand, like yah...blah...etc. etc." People that make the odd small effort are contributing and helping in a real and tangible way - you are merely putting forth empty-headed arguments as you decide what '06 registration car needs to be in your driveway in order to make the neighbours think you are someone/something.

- By your own evidence you are currently not amounting to too much actually.

Raiser.

P.S. Beer is life - could you please consider yourself included? [thanks]

* Edit 'cause of prior omission of another inbred mental midget.

What in the name of all thats holy are you babbling about??Chicken dipper trees???Kebab bushes??
I think you have some serious problems but i like the suave way that you mention your own chairitable leanings..."Oh THAT?yeah,i do my bit but i could do a lot more and you know,someday i'll make a difference!".You sound like a cross between Darius out of Popstars and a Miss World contestatnt.

RotalicaV

Raiser, the brady bunch are on the phone.. they want their speech back.

Degsy

RotalicaV wrote:

Raiser, the brady bunch are on the phone.. they want their speech back.

LOL!:D

edanto

RotalicaV wrote:

Need to clean up our own homeless before we start focusing on the starvin marvins.
Pay your few quid a year to what ever group ring you up, what else can we do?
Thats not a question, i plan on doing nothing else.

It looks like a question. I mean, with the question mark and the familiar structure and all.

It looks like you've already decided on the limit of your involvement and you don't want to know the answer to the question you asked.

ionapaul

Archeron wrote:

"People might say they care but what they're really doing is thinking of themselves. They need to get rid of their guilt for a while by handing over their money. It makes them feel better."

Really? And does it make you feel better about the fact that you do nothing by accusing those who DO give a damn of only doing it for their own personal reasons? Thats just sad. I dont tell anyone what I donate, coz its none of their damn business, thats between me and the charities I support, but how dare you suggest that the only reason people do this is for personal emotional gain.

My reason for doing this is because I have respect for my fellow man, and I can at least partially understand the misery they suffer, and how we can do something to change it. I realize the fact that I have been born as one of the luckiest people in the world, and I realize the fact that it could so easily have been different, and it could be me sitting there, 8 years old dying of a combination of AIDs and starvation as my family die around me.

Nothing you have posted disagrees with Aporia's main point - we give to charity, publicly or privately, for our own benefit, whether social or psychological. You admit you do it because you feel a degree of guilt (over your lucky birth as an Irish person in the late 20th century), contributing to charity or charitable work no doubt eases this guilt a little bit. Another reason could be what is called 'reciprocal altruism', something that many evolutionary theorists believe is 'hard wired' into us via our genes. We help out those who have no genetic link to us, in the hope / expectation that such an act will ensure that should we need similar help in the future, a precendent has been set in place. Essentially, you help a stranger when they need it in the hope that society continues to endorse such an act and that you can call on a stranger's aid in the future should you need it yourself.

I don't think this should take away from our admiration and respect of those involved in charitable work and fundraising, but please don't kid yourself - you do it, ultimately, for your own benefit, whether consiously or subconsiously.

Degsy

I'm contributing more than enough to the taxman as it is..if the minister for foreign affairs or whoever wants to give some of my tax money to the bottomless money pit that is the third world than so be it.I'm not contributing any more as an individual,my head is just above water as it is and i dont see the inhabitants of Dubai or anywhere REALLY wealthy giving ME a hand with the bills!

azezil

What gets my goat is people saying 'we owe them, we stole all their natural resources' things like that, did Ireland as a nation do this? I think not, yet we give millions every year!

I really don't see why, I'll give to charities that help our own people, when a child doesn't go hungry in our country, I'll give to others.

carbonkid

We dont REALLY care because we havnt experienced it first hand, im sure if we made a trip out there to see what it was really like our feelings towards giving charity would be totally different. Besides i dont trust those guys on the street and im too poor with the amount of rent im paying to live in dublin CC

Degsy

The point is although we might see ourselves as a "wealthy" nation compared to say,ethiopia,how many people are actually wealthy in this country?very few..just like all capitalist societies.Joe Soap makes enough to pay the bills most of the time and keep a roof over his familily's head and thats about it.What a lot of people forget is that the plasma screen TVs and the 06 reg cars and the holidays are usually obtained by borrowing..bank loans,credit union,credit cards etc.It doesnt mean that most ordinary Joes are making loads of money and should be sending it overseas to those we are told are less fortunate.We have a big problem with poverty in this country,from the homeless to the very old and i dont hear Bono telling the EU to cancel the debt.Charity's arent targeting the super rich,they're hassling ordinary people and trying to make them feel bad about the standard of living they're "fortunate" enough to enjoy.

Archeron

ionapaul wrote:

You admit you do it because you feel a degree of guilt (over your lucky birth as an Irish person in the late 20th century), contributing to charity or charitable work no doubt eases this guilt a little bit. ..........
.........I don't think this should take away from our admiration and respect of those involved in charitable work and fundraising, but please don't kid yourself - you do it, ultimately, for your own benefit, whether consiously or subconsiously.

Wow. You're actually able to tell me why I feel the way I do over the internet? Now thats a rare talent.

From the Oxford English Dictionary.

guilt
• noun, the fact of having committed an offence or crime. 2 a feeling of having done something wrong or failed in an obligation

compassion
• noun, sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

Empathy
The imaginative projection into another's feelings, a state of total identification with another's situation, condition, and thoughts. The action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without explicitly articulating these feelings

See the subtle differences? I have no reason to feel guilt, however I do empathize with those billions of people more unfortunate that me. If you want to talk about kidding yourself, then keep trudging through the world expecting everyone to agree that your responsibilty to your fellow man ends at the bottom of your driveway, and its not any one persons duty to what they can to help others.

turbot

A few points:

1) It's better that you are honest about your true feelings about the third world than you lie / pretend you care when you don't

2) At some level in western society, I think it's important to be aware of the wider implications of being a consumer; the products you purchase and use are created, and how only some of these products leave our planet and it's people better off overall. As consumers, we have to take responsibility for the effects of our actions.

3) Our leaders barely demonstrate the wisdom of looking into the future and taking action now to ensure that kids in 2 generations time (boards grandchildren) can walk outside because the air quality is ok, though awareness of such things is rising all the time.

4) Being disempowered or under funded in a western society can be a miserable existence; the social pressures and whats required to survive can obstruct being more inteligently aware about how you behave. The disconnection from nature / natural rhythms can be stressful.

At some level though, this is also a really stupid perspective on life to hold, a self fulfilling prophecy that limits the individual who understands the world as such, a set of choices that are or have been made unconsciously about how to live that cons the person who holds such ideas, while they hold them, of the ability to have a really good time.

ionapaul

I think we'll agree to disagree (this is directed to Archeron). Yes, I am quite able to make a sweeping generalisation based on established evolutionary theory! Yes, I am happy telling a whole range of people why they do what they do, based on evolutionary theory. If you feel the theory is false or does not apply in your case, feel free to present evidence to the contrary. I applaud those who help the needy, who have compassion and empathy for those less fortunate than themselves.



But they are doing it, consiously or subconsiously, for ultimately 'self serving' reasons.