So I gota letter from NTL today..

Nietzschean

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

My point was that there is no contention on my exchange. If there were, I wouldn't be using the connection so much.

Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, ntl have some funky routing so one person maxing out a certain link can cause problems in my experence...

So how about you keep your condescending attitudes to yourself, eh ?

How about no.

bk

Nietzschean wrote:

Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, ntl have some funky routing so one person maxing out a certain link can cause problems in my experence...

It isn't routing, itis how cable works. Cable is a shared medium. You sare your bandwidth with all the other users of the segment on your local node. If some prick is downloading 100's of GB per month, then all your neighbours suffer.

bk

CuLT wrote:

Poor old IBB aren't even getting a mention here, every package from the 1MB breeze and up has no cap.

I suppose there isn't much use having an unlimited cap when it doesn't work for days or weeks on end or if you get speeds barely higher then dial-up.

CuLT

bk wrote:

I suppose there isn't much use having an unlimited cap when it doesn't work for days or weeks on end or if you get speeds barely higher then dial-up.

Sucks to be those people

My IBB connection has always been just fine.

thund3rbird_

The-Rigger wrote:

In response to keyran,

.......

If you were using your mobile every minute of the day, would you get a call from vodafone telling you that your calling too many people? No, you would get charged more.

you are not comparing like with like

with mobile providers you pay a monthly charge for x amount of minutes / x amount of call value
when you go over that amount you do get charged - as per the service details / t&cs.

ntl don't charge for going over the cap, they politely (content of letters has been posted before) ask you to reduce your usage for the benefit of others on the service and stay within the usage limits

as bk noted - if they adopted the same policy as other ISPs & charged then to exceed your cap by 100Gig would cost big bucks

there have been posts in this thread also where people bitched about not auto getting the 6meg upgrade while paying the same price
same goes for the cap - if other people are paying the same as you and sticking within the 20 / 30 / 40 gig limit then why can't everyone keep to it?

reeks of wanting your toast buttered on both sides

the abusers would be the first on the phone to ntl if the shoe was on the other foot and their service was effected by a minority that choose to ignore the cap.

would you rather receive a letter or possibly run the risk of having your 6 meg reduced to 512k or possibly less due to over(ab)use
this is another option ntl could take - it has been used by other ISPs before :eek:



mind you - as they don't charge / penalise I'd probably rape the bandwidth too if I could get it :rolleyes:

rogue-entity

Here is another option NTL could take, throttle all P2P connections to 56k. That will learn em

I wonder if NTL would mind less if you all did your heavy downloads in the "off-peak" hours when there are less people using the connection, in the same way that ESB is cheaper at night when the demand is lower.

Nietzschean

bk wrote:

It isn't routing, itis how cable works. Cable is a shared medium. You sare your bandwidth with all the other users of the segment on your local node. If some prick is downloading 100's of GB per month, then all your neighbours suffer.

I'm aware of how cable works, my issues normally arise when certain routes through ntl are saturated(normally to INEX peers)......

so slow dl from ftp.heanet/h365 + big ping, where as uk sites will give fine ping....

Nietzschean

rogue-entity wrote:

I wonder if NTL would mind less if you all did your heavy downloads in the "off-peak" hours when there are less people using the connection, in the same way that ESB is cheaper at night when the demand is lower.

that could potentially solve my issue anyway, it is implmented by some isps elsewhere iirc.... throttle p2p ports heavily during peak times....

CiaranC

Throttle P2P to allieviate ping response times issues for a tiny minority of users, great idea. Makes great business sense to be the only ISP in Ireland to do that and drive all your customers to DSL, just so one guy can get slightly higher scores in counter strike :rolleyes:

Believe it or not, people pay for broadband so they can transfers large amounts of data quickly. Without that function, its pretty pointless.

Nietzschean

peak times of 5 - 9pm? not going to annoy anyone except those downloading tv shows violating copyrights.....

I doubt you would see any shift in users away from NTL, people would just adjust their download habbits so illegal stuff comes in after midnight.....

And for the record i don't play counterstrike.

Snowbat

The problem with throttling P2P is it can affect anything that uses non-standard ports... Skype, VoIP, VPN, ssh/sftp over non-standard ports, new online services that the provider hasn't identified and put in a bypass for, etc.

Clearwire tried it and look what happened:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054848649

Apart from that, so long as users are staying within their agreed bandwidth limit, why should they have to suffer rate limiting on certain ports? They are paying for an internet connection, not a quasi-connection that only works properly on port 80.

Gateway

Bin the letter's!

I think I've had 4 of them at this stage. When I signed on the dotted line I signed up to a no cap service so that's what I expect and thats what I get. If they haven't even got the brain power to update there website what in the bejaysus are they going to do if I go over the limit. I couldn't give a toss about the bull**** they write in those letter's

That's the great thing about Lucan there's plenty of BB to chose from!

Nietzschean

emm there was a fair use clause, which they can happily use to rate limit your service or just kick you off.... (the whole no limits thing anyone?)

And as for choice, the other bb providers are generally much more restrictive in their caps...and tend to be slower too

Gateway

Nietzschean wrote:

emm there was a fair use clause, which they can happily use to rate limit your service or just kick you off.... (the whole no limits thing anyone?)

And as for choice, the other bb providers are generally much more restrictive in their caps...and tend to be slower too

There was no fair use clause, what there was was a "no cap" clause. Anyway that doesn't mean anything now because they've changed it. but who cares

So Nietzschean you're saying they have 2 choice's rate limit or kick me off. Well seeing as you've just promoted yourself to MD of NTL and left out the non existing 3rd choice here it is for you "NTL will charge you ?? cent for every MB over your cap"

I've already offer them those 3 choices but they don't want to bother implementing them, so until they do its a no cap service!

Nietzschean

Gateway wrote:

So Nietzschean you're saying they have 2 choice's rate limit or kick me off. Well seeing as you've just promoted yourself to MD of NTL and left out the non existing 3rd choice here it is for you "NTL will charge you ?? cent for every MB over your cap"

I've already offer them those 3 choices but they don't want to bother implementing them, so until they do its a no cap service!

Given thankfully users such as yourself are still in the minority they will hopefully opt for the rate limit/kick off methods as its got a much lower admin overhead than charging you

Gateway

Nietzschean wrote:

Given thankfully users such as yourself are still in the minority they will hopefully opt for the rate limit/kick off methods as its got a much lower admin overhead than charging you

I have no problem with that.

donspeekinglesh

watty wrote:

1G a day is about 10 times "normal" usage. So given contention and "fair use clause" in T&C it is very reasonable.

1Gb a day is normal use according to the NTL T&Cs last time I looked.
My p2p d/ling is confined to the hours between 0100 and 0800, and is usually in and around the 1Gb mark. Though in recent days it's been far less.

DemonOfTheFall

Almost all of my cap usage comes from NTL's own Usenet servers. I'm sure the same can be said for most heavy bandwidth users with NTL connections.

If there are contention issues in the routing inside their own network, between my house and their usenet servers then I think thats a problem with a poor network design.

I like to feel that I'm not doing anyone any harm by downloading stuff from their usenet servers, don't see why it would be contending bandwidth that other people need for anything else. If they have any sense there is a seriously fat pipe going to their usenet servers.

thewing

So I haven't d/loaded anything since last wed...have about 20GB to go for the rest of the month, so time to leech!!

I agree with Rigger, I'd pay an extra 10 yoyo a month for a bigger cap.Some people need speed, some need a high cap, but then others need both - that's us...

CiaranC

Same here, latency/ping times mean nothing to me, I have broadband to transfer large amounts of data, nothing else.