Israel

mcgarnicle

MichaelJackass wrote:

Because they are surrounded by Murdering Arab swine that want to carry out Nazi,Hitler type tactics and kill them all, they are justified to have then and if necessary irradicate most of the middle east if necessary and do us all a favour as the arabs are frankly depressing boring and down right murderous

Genius

The Corinthian

MichaelJackass wrote:

Your opinon is flawd full of holes and your Anti-semtic jibes and rants are the words of a fool now go and live with your lovely Palestinians and watch how they torture,opressed and abuse their own

How is what he is saying Anti-Semitic?

Pazaz 21

TIMMAY! wrote:

I am really just trying to understand the issues, not having a go at anyone and I would be interested to get a knowlegable discussion going.

Hey MichaelJackass, can you not read?

This guy wants a Knowledgeable Discussion, not a "See who can F**k the other guy out of it the best competition", so just relax, ok. Your opinion is a very valid one but that is no excuse to be so abusive to people.

LostinBlanch - thanks for your enthusiasim with all the links but i think most of us already know how Israelis and Palestinians treat each other, and if we have to read countless examples every time we will be here forever. Just pointing it out as ChityWest already has.

Pazaz 21

EireRoadUser wrote:

America is helping israel ,because its a small country that doesn't cost too much to arm.

Dosen't cost too much, you think $84,854,827,200 is cheap ?

http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

And it keeps the arabs at bay in their own land.

Isreal has a peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan, so it is not "Keeping them at bay" as you say, it is only fighting terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank and wouldn't you think that the US would have less of a headache in the middle east if Isreal wasn't there?

jimmy1234

http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/palikids/palikids.html
http://somebodyhelpme.info/RIGHTEOUS_MUSLIMS/righteous.html
http://somebodyhelpme.info/cartoons/anti-Semitic/anti-Semitic.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/lobby/jewishlobby.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/mideast/mideast.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/words/words.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/books/books.html

ChityWest

jimmy1234 wrote:

http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/palikids/palikids.html
http://somebodyhelpme.info/RIGHTEOUS_MUSLIMS/righteous.html
http://somebodyhelpme.info/cartoons/anti-Semitic/anti-Semitic.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/lobby/jewishlobby.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/mideast/mideast.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/words/words.html
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/books/books.html

Round one (in the propaganda wars)to israel.


There are a lot better examples of anti-muslim/pro israel sites out there - those ones above are pretty amateurish.

jimmy1234

ChityWest wrote:

Round one (in the propaganda wars)to israel.


There are a lot better examples of anti-muslim/pro israel sites out there - those ones above are pretty amateurish.

Please post some examples.

jimmy1234

The videos here are interesting:
http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html#OBSESSION
http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html#SADDAM_REICH

Some of the audios and videos on this page are very interesting too:
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/righteous/righteous.html

jimmy1234

http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/MEMRI/669-Pure_Jew_hatred_on_Palestinian_TV.wmv
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/MEMRI/670-Egyptian_Imam_Sings_of_Apes_Pigs_and_the_Annihilation_of_Jews_on_Judgment_Day.wmv
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/MEMRI/1052-Our_War_with_the_Jews_Is_in_the_Name_of_Islam.asf

jimmy1234

...they seem reasonable. ;-)
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/PMW/Hamas_Video-We_will_drink_the_blood_of_the_Jews_02-14-06.wmv

mcgarnicle

jimmy1234 wrote:

http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/MEMRI/669-Pure_Jew_hatred_on_Palestinian_TV.wmv
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/MEMRI/670-Egyptian_Imam_Sings_of_Apes_Pigs_and_the_Annihilation_of_Jews_on_Judgment_Day.wmv
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/MEMRI/1052-Our_War_with_the_Jews_Is_in_the_Name_of_Islam.asf

Linking to one crappy site over and over doesn't really add much weight to an argument.

jimmy1234

mcgarnicle wrote:

Linking to one crappy site over and over doesn't really add much weight to an argument.

I'm linking to different things I found on the site. Someone on this forum posted the original link. Otherwise, I wouldn't have found it to be posting all these links. Have you even bothered to check any of them out?

jimmy1234

ChityWest wrote:

No chance sonny-jim - you wont fool me that easily - you do your own homework.

PS not sure its a good idea posting 20+ links which are all on the main propaganda page - why not just post the main propaganda homepage ?

Because I was posting the things I found interesting as I was checking out the page. Here's the main page:
http://somebodyhelpme.info/

jimmy1234

ChityWest wrote:

No chance sonny-jim - you wont fool me that easily - you do your own homework.

PS not sure its a good idea posting 20+ links which are all on the main propaganda page - why not just post the main propaganda homepage ?

Fool you how? You mentioned there were better sites and I simply asked for examples. I know I can Google for them as easily as anyone, but I was genuiniely curious to see what you were referring to.

jimmy1234

ChityWest wrote:

Yes - some of them are hilarious. That site looks like it was put together by either
a) a 14 year old zionist
b) a 65 yr old zionist retiree

Or maybe a 20 year old Christian evangelist?

mcgarnicle

jimmy1234 wrote:

I'm linking to different things I found on the site. Someone on this forum posted the original link. Otherwise, I wouldn't have found it to be posting all these links. Have you even bothered to check any of them out?

Yes I have checked it out, it's biased, one sided rubbish. I could post a link to some al-quada or hamas die hard's website outlining why Israel is the biggest evil on the planet, but everyone would know it was propoganda garbage, just like that crap you are posting.

TIMMAY!

TIMMAY! wrote:

How can a Jew born in Israel in the last twenty years justify, forcibly moving palastineans from their homes, shooting them and improsining them behind a wall; not dissimilar to the Iron Curtain wall of Berlin.???

So there is less chance that they will blow him and his family and other civilians apart in a cafe or a bus or a synagogue?

Padraig Mor

Deleted User wrote:

So there is less chance that they will blow him and his family and other civilians apart in a cafe or a bus or a synagogue?

Maybe it would be easier to do what the rest of the world has asked for decades - let the Palestinians have their own state in the West Bank and Gaza? I'd imagine it'd be cheaper - and certainly more effective.

Frederico

Padraig Mor wrote:

Maybe it would be easier to do what the rest of the world has asked for decades - let the Palestinians have their own state in the West Bank and Gaza? I'd imagine it'd be cheaper - and certainly more effective.

No thats alot harder, how do you sell the peace and understanding thing? When a suicide bomb goes off you must denounce them all as terrorists and be hardline with them, what could be simpler? Rightwing approach easy, leftwing approach complicated.

MichaelJackass

jimmy1234 wrote:

...they seem reasonable. ;-)
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/PMW/Hamas_Video-We_will_drink_the_blood_of_the_Jews_02-14-06.wmv

Lovely People so opressed NOT......

They Palestinans get what they deserve and my god are they depressing with their constant BS Yawn if they kill all the jews who is next, the Wombles

DublinWriter

MichaelJackass wrote:

Israel is a state with the right to exist and not get any agression in any form of manner, were you with the Moronic Peace leftist gob****es or are you a niaeve plonker...

That would be a 'God Given Right' to exist then, would it?, seeing as the only Isreal before 1947 that existed was the territory mentioned in the bible 5,000 years ago.

The expansionist policy of Israel is done in the name of having space to live, or in order words, liebensraum.

Dirk Gently

Just had a quick look through the posts here, and thought it started of ok but descended into a whose link is better competition, something I myself was guilty of engaging in with regards to the Chavez thread.

So im gonna try to refrain from the link to my view point culture which does happen alot, sometimes for legitimate source reasons but alot of the time descends into a my sites are more reliable than your sites mentality.

The Israel / Palestine conflict is a horrible situation. Both sides have legitimate reasons to hate the other. The creation of the Israel state and planting of it on Arab lands was always going to piss them off, not that it was of great concern to the powers that be who located it their at the time. A few backward Arab states with no real sense of sovereignty, it wont be a problem. Well didn't turn out that way and the Arabs did take offence to what they claim are their lands been/being (spell fascists educate me) planted.

Both Israel and Palestine have claims on the lands dating back to ancient texts and religious beliefs. In order for both an Israeli state and Palestinian state to co-exist side by side measures in respect and tolerance need to be taken.

When one person is killed, this has a negative effect on that person’s family and community. It fuels hatred of the person who killed that person and the state or cause of the person who committed the killing. This has an accumulative effect,
i.e. Palestinian suicide bomber kills many Israeli people- Israeli people are angry with suicide bomber, his cause and his people. They want revenge are are less likely to listen to the concerns and have dialogue with people who represent the suicide bombers view point and the legitimate concerns of the Palestinian side are dismissed as terrorist demands.

The opposite is also true when Israeli troops kill members of the Palestine cause or when people are evicted from their homes and are forced to live in refugee camps in what they see as their own lands. The victims who are forced out of their homes see Israel as an occupying force and a hostile threat to them, a powerful army who dismiss their concerns against whom they have no defence. This makes the Palestinians desperate as they can see no way of fighting against such a powerful army without resorting to suicide bombings.

This is a breakdown of trust and communication which polarizes the two peoples involved. With each act of violence it makes political and civic dialogue that more difficult. Good will measures are needed on both sides to ease the conflict and to promote trust in either side. Non – Violence pacts, which are difficult to control, but are possible if the proper assurances are given, are welcomed. Some form of public process, were by concessions (hate that word, it’s not really a concession if it leads to a better and safer standard of living) are made on both sides and promises of mutual respect and solidarity given.
Bombing the **** out of someone and retaliation and tit for tat killings never solve anything. They only inflame the situation. An atmosphere needs to be created were by people have alternatives to extreme actions. You know the old saying, “treat people like animals and they will behave like animals” more olive branches and less bullets and bombs are needed if there is to be a move away from polarization of the peoples involved.

Pazaz 21

DublinWriter wrote:

That would be a 'God Given Right' to exist then, would it?, seeing as the only Isreal before 1947 that existed was the territory mentioned in the bible 5,000 years ago.

The expansionist policy of Israel is done in the name of having space to live, or in order words, liebensraum.

Nice reference,:D i see the irony of the Israeli Military state is not lost on everyone.

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote:

The expansionist policy of Israel is done in the name of having space to live, or in order words, liebensraum.

Ah yes, when one has run out of ways to insult the Jews, always through in an old Nazi reference to really put the boot in. Any good Holocaust jokes while you're on the subject? That is, of course, if it really happened. Or how about comparing Israel's policies to the Final Solution.

Very bad taste I'm afraid.

meditraitor

clown bag wrote:

Just had a quick look through the posts here, and thought it started of ok but descended into a whose link is better competition, something I myself was guilty of engaging in with regards to the Chavez thread.

So im gonna try to refrain from the link to my view point culture which does happen alot, sometimes for legitimate source reasons but alot of the time descends into a my sites are more reliable than your sites mentality.

The Israel / Palestine conflict is a horrible situation. Both sides have legitimate reasons to hate the other. The creation of the Israel state and planting of it on Arab lands was always going to piss them off, not that it was of great concern to the powers that be who located it their at the time. A few backward Arab states with no real sense of sovereignty, it wont be a problem. Well didn't turn out that way and the Arabs did take offence to what they claim are their lands been/being (spell fascists educate me) planted.

Both Israel and Palestine have claims on the lands dating back to ancient texts and religious beliefs. In order for both an Israeli state and Palestinian state to co-exist side by side measures in respect and tolerance need to be taken.

When one person is killed, this has a negative effect on that person’s family and community. It fuels hatred of the person who killed that person and the state or cause of the person who committed the killing. This has an accumulative effect,
i.e. Palestinian suicide bomber kills many Israeli people- Israeli people are angry with suicide bomber, his cause and his people. They want revenge are are less likely to listen to the concerns and have dialogue with people who represent the suicide bombers view point and the legitimate concerns of the Palestinian side are dismissed as terrorist demands.

The opposite is also true when Israeli troops kill members of the Palestine cause or when people are evicted from their homes and are forced to live in refugee camps in what they see as their own lands. The victims who are forced out of their homes see Israel as an occupying force and a hostile threat to them, a powerful army who dismiss their concerns against whom they have no defence. This makes the Palestinians desperate as they can see no way of fighting against such a powerful army without resorting to suicide bombings.

This is a breakdown of trust and communication which polarizes the two peoples involved. With each act of violence it makes political and civic dialogue that more difficult. Good will measures are needed on both sides to ease the conflict and to promote trust in either side. Non – Violence pacts, which are difficult to control, but are possible if the proper assurances are given, are welcomed. Some form of public process, were by concessions (hate that word, it’s not really a concession if it leads to a better and safer standard of living) are made on both sides and promises of mutual respect and solidarity given.
Bombing the **** out of someone and retaliation and tit for tat killings never solve anything. They only inflame the situation. An atmosphere needs to be created were by people have alternatives to extreme actions. You know the old saying, “treat people like animals and they will behave like animals” more olive branches and less bullets and bombs are needed if there is to be a move away from polarization of the peoples involved.

Nice post, well thought out

Michaeljackass wrote:

Because they are surrounded by Murdering Arab swine that want to carry out Nazi,Hitler type tactics and kill them all, they are justified to have then and if necessary irradicate most of the middle east if necessary and do us all a favour as the arabs are frankly depressing boring and down right murderous

Lovely People so opressed NOT......

Michaeljackass wrote:

They Palestinans get what they deserve and my god are they depressing with their constant BS Yawn if they kill all the jews who is next, the Wombles

Should be banned, Jackass is right!!

meditraitor

Deleted User wrote:

Ah yes, when one has run out of ways to insult the Jews, always through in an old Nazi reference to really put the boot in. Any good Holocaust jokes while you're on the subject? That is, of course, if it really happened. Or how about comparing Israel's policies to the Final Solution.

Very bad taste I'm afraid.

I find it very irritating that when anyone criticises the state of Isreal for its sins (Palestine has contributed its fair share also) some twat always comes out with the holocaust reference, its easier to slate a persons opinion and imply that they are holocaust deniers(always happens with these threads) than to actualy enter the debate and add something positive to the discussion...
The sooner people realise that critisism of the isreali state is not always anti -semetic the sooner a proper debate can occur....

meditraitor

meditraitor wrote:

I find it very irritating that when anyone criticises the state of Isreal for its sins (Palestine has contributed its fair share also) some twat always comes out with the holocaust reference, its easier to slate a persons opinion and imply that they are holocaust deniers(always happens with these threads) than to actualy enter the debate and add something positive to the discussion...

Yes, because 'liebensraum' was not consciously thrown in to make a specific reference to what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis? It's a word you use every day and examination of your posts will show that? You didn't go out of your way to raise the spectre of the Holocaust, and totally unwittingly used that word?

As regards the 'some twat' reference, people may simply have a different opinion and find your posts (not you) offensive when you score points over the genocide of Jews. You have a different opinion, I won't get all upset and insult you personally and you shouldn't either.

meditraitor

Deleted User wrote:

, people may simply have a different opinion and find your posts (not you) offensive

when you score points over the genocide of Jews

. You have a different opinion, I won't get all upset and insult you personally and you shouldn't either.

Thats my point exactly, and that is what you have tried to do..... not your post

Explain to me what part of my post would score points over the genocide of jews, if you can I will gladly edit the twat comment, if not it stays.

The Corinthian

Deleted User wrote:

Yes, because 'liebensraum' was not consciously thrown in to make a specific reference to what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis? It's a word you use every day and examination of your posts will show that? You didn't go out of your way to raise the spectre of the Holocaust, and totally unwittingly used that word?

It’s a valid observation. To quote Nietzsche (another irony, I know), “do not do battle with monsters lest ye become a monster”, which reminds us that there really is a fine line between opposing and becoming the very people we oppose. Unfortunately, the demonization of the Nazis has only served to create a myth that they were in some way a supernatural evil, as if implying that no one else could ever do anything akin to them. When parallels, such as the Israeli version of Liebensraum are cited, these are often dismissed as simply offensive for this reason. Unfortunately such parallels can be made - after all, the original Herrenvolk were the Chosen People.

Of course, this does not mean that the Palestinians are any better. The PA is not presently bankrupt because the West has stopped funding it, but because it is a ridiculously corrupt regime. Let’s put this in perspective; the PA was receiving 1 billion US dollars per annum from the West alone (more if you include the Saudis, Kuwaitis, Iranians and others); that’s over USD 260 for every man, woman and child in an area with a GNI of USD 1,120 per annum. Where does it all go?

And one of the major obstacles to peace has always been the fact that regardless of whatever the PA said to the West, it was at the very least turning a blind eye to continued terrorist attacks on Israel, if not indeed supporting them.

Ironically, the best progress we’ve seen in the PA, post-Arafat, is that is has tentatively become a functioning democracy. Be careful what you wish for...

In this thread I’ve asked two questions of two of the posters. Of the original (pro-Palestinian) poster I challenged his assertion that he had somehow gone to the Middle East and remained neutral and “open minded” by asking him what he was doing there. Silence was my response.

Of another (pro-Israeli) poster, I challenged him to explain his accusation of anti-Semitism of a fellow poster in this thread. Again, silence.

Frankly I’m not surprised at this, as the whole argument has become a bad joke dominated by nationalistic-religious fanatics, who rarely want to debate their principles in reality.

Neither side is righteous in this dispute. Both have flawed positions and blood on their hands. However, as long as either side continues to maintain such a (literally) God-given-right to their position, then the only way this entire mess will be resolved is by being like the Nazis and adopting a Final Solution.

meditraitor

meditraitor wrote:

Explain to me what part of my post would score points over the genocide of jews, if you can I will gladly edit the twat comment, if not it stays.

The reference to 'liebensraum'. It has one very obvious connotation significant to Jews and highly offensive to them, and that's because it is almost exclusively used with reference to the Nazis. I suspect you have never heard of Genghis Khan and Liebensraum, or the Moors and Liebensraum, or current US policy and Liebensraum. One could speak about 'invasions' or 'land grabbing' or used any other phrase to demonise Israeli policy and avoided raising the Nazi issue. Hence I say the word is deliberately used to invoke the massacre of 6 million Jews and to score points. Btw I don't think that makes you a 'twat' at all, I don't even know you, but I know I strongly disagree with your use of that word.