Petrol and diesel.

smashey

Mods, feel free to move this if it is in the wrong forum.

The price of petrol and diesel has been going up recently.:mad: Why is it that when the price of crude oil goes up, then the price of petrol and diesel at the forecourts rises immediately? I don't know how long it takes crude oil to get shipped from the rigs to the refineries nor how long it takes for the refining process and from there to my car, but I can safely say it doesn't happen overnight. If an independent retailer already has petrol and diesel in their storage tanks, then surely this was bought at an agreed rate and not based on market fluctuations. Could somebody advise on the legalities of this? To me, this is the ultimate rip off. Is there anywhere I can lodge a complaint or are the Gevernment happy with this as it results in increased revenue for them?:mad: :mad:

mike65

Its called a 'free' market. There are no price controls so take it or leave it. If I buy widgets at 1 euro and sell then at 1.20 but the widget price goes up to 1.10 then I'll be the first to put the retail price up even if they were bought a 1 euro a pop.

Now if we lived in a communist state....none of us would be rich enough to run a car.

Mike.

smashey

Blatant profiteering.

Sam Vimes

as hank hill says, in the real world, supply and demand is called sticking it to people when they need you most

(he was talking about raising the price of propane at christmas)

homah_7ft

mike65 wrote:

Its called a 'free' market. There are no price controls so take it or leave it.

Yes indeed oil is one of the world's best known non-cartel goods. :eek:

mike65

At the pump I meant!

Mike.

smashey

mike65 wrote:

Its called a 'free' market. There are no price controls so take it or leave it. If I buy widgets at 1 euro and sell then at 1.20 but the widget price goes up to 1.10 then I'll be the first to put the retail price up even if they were bought a 1 euro a pop.

Now if we lived in a communist state....none of us would be rich enough to run a car.

Mike.

A free market?:rolleyes: I might accept that, if it wasn't for the fact that the retailers act 'en masse'. Cartel springs to mind.

I don't see Jewellers changing the price of gold rings every time the cost of gold goes up.

lomb

Its like any commodity , take it or leave it. at the end of the day u can cycle or use solar or wind power to heat your house. whats surprised me is how cheap petrol and diesel is. the arabs have been very reasonable they could easily have gotten double and triple what they have charged historically. it is a very inelastic commodity, normally as prices rise, demand drops off. but in the case of fuel, demand has actually increased! this means it is an essential like water or food.
diesel and petrol fuel the economy of industrial nations. personally i think a switch to nuclear is the only solution to peak oil and i think everyone in the know knows this.
as regards the retailers,they probably are acting like a cartel, but thats part of the free market also.. id rather a little overcharging than having a shortage of fuel and my lada chugging to a halt.

whizzbang

In reality we get good petrol and diesel prices here in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe! In Itay for example the prices are about 20% higher, and 35% in the neatherlands I think!

Check out my web site for cheap petrol prices in your areas! The best way to keep prices down is through information! www.pumps.ie

Sizzler

Its a load of bollix, anybody with half a brain knows they buy in fuel in bulk at an agreed price weeks in advance as the wholesalers have also in turn bought it at a fixed price so in actual fact when the price of oil rises it should take literally weeks for the minions like us to see a price change, but what you are seeing in Ireland is the average petrol station owner screwing the public, hungry kunts.:mad:

smashey

Thank you Sizzler.

The price of crude oil has now reached record levels. All the forecourt owners/rip off merchants must be salivating at the chance of another quick buck. I don't care what the price is in Italy or the Netherlands. (I could point out a lot of countries where it is a lot cheaper). I live in Ireland and pay whatever price it is. It is the swiftness of the price rise that annoys me. If the price of crude oil fell by $10 a barrel tonight, would that be reflected at the pumps as quickly as any rise? Not a hope.

Culchie

I don't want to interfere with the debate too much, but I think you'll find that the average 'petrol station owner' will probably make more money from selling you a Mars bar, than he will from selling you €30 of petrol.

Why do you think all the smaller garages are closing?

Sizzler

Culchie wrote:

I don't want to interfere with the debate too much, but I think you'll find that the average 'petrol station owner' will probably make more money from selling you a Mars bar, than he will from selling you €30 of petrol.

Why do you think all the smaller garages are closing?

And their mars bars aint cheap either

In fairness when was the last time you read about Exxon or Esso losing money? They set the prices the lad on the high street makes his few quid on top of it like every other service business.

garred

If its any good 98fm do a promotion in a different garage throughout the day where petrol is 98c for a limited time.

Culchie

Sizzler wrote:

And their mars bars aint cheap either

In fairness when was the last time you read about Exxon or Esso losing money? They set the prices the lad on the high street makes his few quid on top of it like every other service business.

I'm not disputing that, but your local garage owner isn't Esso or Exxon, he's your local retailer who has a supplier agreement with Esso/Exxon etc...

Trust me, I know that industry inside out, and your frustrations are misplaced if you are targeting the petrol station owner.

The money is made 'upstream' ... long before it gets pumped into your car.

mel123

this mornings paper says we can expect to pay €1.20 a litre in the next week or so, this is just crazy :mad: :mad: :mad:

Culchie

mel123 wrote:

this mornings paper says we can expect to pay €1.20 a litre in the next week or so, this is just crazy :mad: :mad: :mad:

If George W goes about his business the way I think he will, you'll be looking at €1.50-€1.80 within 12 months.

If the Iran standoff escalates any further you could easily be looking at $100 per barrell.

smashey

Aye and when Shell, BP and Exxon post more record profits next year watch for the mutual backslapping and listen for the cheers from the traders.

Culchie

smashey wrote:

Aye and when Shell, BP and Exxon post more record profits next year watch for the mutual backslapping and listen for the cheers from the traders.

Yup, as I said, 'Upstream' is where they make the big bucks.

KerranJast

It's still cheaper to buy a litre of petrol than a litre of water (from a shop). Go figure.

lomb

then ur job is clear smashey, go into the oil business:D
i reakon petrol will reach 1.50 a liter in the next few years, i reakon its time for many to switch to diesel and possibly to vegitable oil:D

Mailman

When I passed a hypermarche in France the week before last they were selling a litre for €1.17 from what I remember.
Fuel is more heavily taxed in France and according to relative rates of taxation if that hypermarche was selling petrol in Ireland it would have been charging about 100 cents a litre here in Ireland but at the moment the cheapest we see is 109 cents per litre. I think we are being ripped off by the distributors.

smashey

KerranJast wrote:

It's still cheaper to buy a litre of petrol than a litre of water (from a shop). Go figure.

I have an option here. I can take as many litres of water from the tap as I want.:D

then ur job is clear smashey, go into the oil business

If I did, Red Adair would be making the huge profits.;)

whizzbang

for anyone who is interested apparently you can get petrol for 102.9 in the Maxol in Haroldscross, the most expensive I have listed is Maxol on the Howth Rd at 1.20!

you can see the prices at http://www.pumps.ie/

anyone know any different? please update the map if you do!

vector

why doesn't some enterprising boards user buy 10,000 litres (or some other large amount) of petrol today from a wholesaler (ie a company that runs trucks from refineries to petrol stations) and sell it in 12 months at a competive price

negatives
- cash would be locked in the stock for 12 months
- a licence would be required to store a large amount of petrol
- a special tank would be required
- it would be a huge fire hazard so you might need a large yard with a clearzone around the tank
- no one would buy petrol from an individual they would think its watered down

positives
- profit
- guaranteee of personal supply at todays prices

this looks complicated, but as with everything in business if the profit was high enought it would suddenly happen

Culchie

Because you wouldn't be licenced to store and distribute it.

muffler

KerranJast wrote:

It's still cheaper to buy a litre of petrol than a litre of water (from a shop). Go figure.

You're paying for the plastic water bottle;)

whizzbang

muffler wrote:

You're paying for the plastic water bottle;)

and to have it driven to the shop

Dub13

RTE News interviewed the owner/manager of the dearest petrol station in Ireland yesterday,the garage is in Drumcondra in Dublin and they are selling petrol for 1.30 a liter.He claimed they only make 6c a liter before they take out there costs.I have to say this shocked me.If this is true then the big multinationals and our Government have a lot to answer,the only short term answer to to cut tax but I cant see it happening.

mad m

Brother in law id just back from France were he seen a petrol station selling unleaded for €1.40

muffler

Seen that interview myself. At the very least I think he should have said that he had 6 cents per litre profit after all overheads and expenses were paid. This 6 cents profit margin must be a figure that most petrol retailers agree to divulge to the public to have us crying into our tanks.

A few months ago a petrol retailer went on local radio in Donegal and said the same - actually 5 cents profit margin at that time. The spokesperson for the petrol retailers association or whatever they call themselves then came on the same radio programme and stated the same. But that same day I drove past 3 seperate Maxol stations within about 15 miles of each other and the difference in retail forecourt price between the cheapest and dearest was 6 cents.

So if you were to believe the national and local petrol retailers spokesmen the guy selling it the cheapest was actually selling it at a loss. I dont think so.