Crime in Limerick

Karmafaerie

5uspect wrote:

okay so it is clear that serious crime is lower in Limerick than other cities in Ireland (Karma I wasn't saying the Limerick is a big town just that it feels like a big town rather than a typical european city but granted its improving, its just my opinion)
So why do I feel less safe in Limerick than I do in Dublin and Waterford? I've lived in Dublin for a year and Waterford for around 6 months compared to 5 years here in Limerick.
I think the comments about the compact size of Limerick city centre and the relative dullness of Limerick are probably the reasons why I feel so uncomfortable when I see so many scumbags about. I know there are just as many if not more "heads" in other cities but they're too close for comfort here.
Denying that Limerick has a crime problem is obviously false and it seems that it isn't as bad I think it is. I hope this is the case.

Like I said man, none of us deny that there is a crime problem in Limerick.
We just feel that the (mainly Dublin) media is ridiculously unfair to Limerick.
as is proven by the fact that people automatically assume that Limerick is really bad, but the facts are the complete opposite, with Limerick in fact being the safest of the 4 big cities.
A lot of the apprehension that people may feel in Limerick, is down to an almost placebo like effect.
When all you hear about Limerick in the media is crime, violence murder, it makes you more likely to think this, and you start to look for problems in town.
Limericks main problem was really bad planing back in the fifties and sixties.
Large estates, such as the former South Hill, were built, lumping large amounts of people together, with next to no amenities.
The fact that a lot of the scummier element have nothing to do out in their estates does mean that they tend to loiter around the city center more so that in other cities.
Plus, it's like I've said before, if you give kids nothing to do, but throw stones at cars, then they'll end up throwing stones at cars!

iguana

Inge Binge wrote:

now we have the reported numbers. what does it change?

Right, so the fact that there are over 7.5 times the amount of major crimes reported in Dublin than there are in Limerick, per capita, means that only roughly 10% of crimes in Limerick are reported, compared to 100% in Dublin.:rolleyes:

Yeah, I've heard about all those 'disappeared' folk, who no-one knows where they are but their families are too afraid to report them missing for fear of retribution. But wait, isn't that Colombia? Or maybe last nights Doctor Who.

Karmafaerie, to be fair, the crime statistics in Galway are the lowest in the 4 main cities and the Limerick statistics I quoted didn't include Clare. But I think they are strong enough as they are.

5uspect, at least you can accept the facts about actual crime levels. However I have lived in Limerick for 23 years, Dublin for 3 and London for 1 and I can honestly say that I have never felt more threatened in Limerick, than I have elsewhere. And unless you too are a 5ft tall woman (or one of the 6 people on earth who is smaller than me;) ) then I have probably had more to fear than you have. Tbh, I don't know if most men comprehend how much stronger they are than women, and how vulnerable a woman can feel out alone at night.

Crea

5uspect wrote:

limerick really is almost a tale of two cities, there are parts of limerick that are oblivious to the depth of the crime in the city and parts of it completely swallowed up by it. When I was an undergrad student I knew there were problems but didn't see too much dodgy stuff apart from the obvious higher level of scumbags here than anywhere else (including Dublin). After college I worked as a security guard in town before I started my postgrad. And my eyes were opened. there is a serious problem of crime in limerick and its not getting better. Its not just the very serious crime to all the things that criminals get away. We had many suspects that we caught shoplifting, sometimes with hundreds of euros of stuff from other shops at the same time. They were hauled off by the Gardai and were out on the streets in hours.
Limerick is more a big town than a city and it seems to me that the level of crime in the city is totally out of balance with the rest of the country.

One thing the stats show us is that the crime in Limerick is NOT out of balance with the rest of the country. In fact the solve rate for Gardai in Limerick is up at 94% (read it so no link to prove).
Two things this topic has shown me:
1) There seems to be 2 very different types of areas of Limerick. One where crime is rife and people are afraid to report it and the second which has little exposure to crime and when it does happen it is reported to the Gardai. I have brought this topic up amongst family and friends and all have said that they would report a crime against them.
2) I have checked the links for other areas and no place has residents so quick to put their hometown down. Yes there is crime in Limerick. Is it any worse than other cities in Ireland? The stats tell us no. What can we do to reduce crime even further? Report it and increase the number of Gardai on the beat.
No wonder people feel intimidated in Limerick when they hear that the place is full of mafiosa, muggers, rapists and murders - we can't blame the Dublin media for this as it's Limerick people who are very happy to jump on the bandwagon and give interviews to the press saying they're terrified in their beds. Having groups of "c'mere I wancha's" outside BT's on a Saturday does not make this city a crime haven. All the council estates are within walking distance of the city so where do you expect them to go?
IB - having the stats doesn't change the fact that Limerick has crime. But slagging off the city doesn't change anything either except to make people feel less safe than in other cities. At least the stats counter their arguements. Alot more constructive than the slaggin i'd say.

curlymozzy

I agree about the media image...Im in college in Dublin and the Dubs r are all scared of me coz Im from Limerick city(Im one of those 5ft nothin females) so its quite funny. Seriously thouugh....sometimes I think maybe if we are seen as especially bad we might get extra resources to deal with our problems...turn the positives into negatives. RTE extend coverage of any rime events in Limerick they send down helicopters and everything....if half teh publicising effort was used in combatting crime Limerick would be a UTOPIA.....

Disclaimer this is an opinion NOT FACT I wan to make it really clear is case I get banned.

Karmafaerie

iguana wrote:

Karmafaerie, to be fair, the crime statistics in Galway are the lowest in the 4 main cities and the Limerick statistics I quoted didn't include Clare. But I think they are strong enough as they are.
.

Well, I may have gotten mixed up between the garda report for 2004, and 2005, but in 2004, Galway did have a larger number of crimes than Limerick, and the Limerick mayor was involved in a bit of a hoopla recently, in regards to joking statements in regards to Galways higher crime stats than Limerick.
If things have changed since 2004, then I apologize.
As for the Limerick-Clare thing, Ireland is broken into Garda districts, and at least 95% of Clare is in the Limerick district, and would have been reported in the Garda report as such.

curlymozzy wrote:

Disclaimer this is an opinion NOT FACT I wan to make it really clear is case I get banned.

Inge Binge

curlymozzy wrote:

Disclaimer this is an opinion NOT FACT I wan to make it really clear is case I get banned.

may i use this as my signature? you never know...

IB

iguana

Karmafaerie wrote:

Well, I may have gotten mixed up between the garda report for 2004, and 2005, but in 2004, Galway did have a larger number of crimes than Limerick, and the Limerick mayor was involved in a bit of a hoopla recently, in regards to joking statements in regards to Galways higher crime stats than Limerick.
If things have changed since 2004, then I apologize.
As for the Limerick-Clare thing, Ireland is broken into Garda districts, and at least 95% of Clare is in the Limerick district, and would have been reported in the Garda report as such.

Yeah I buy that about the Clare thing, I get the definite impression that they are counting the entire population of areas such as Corbally, which is largely in Clare, as Limerick. Because the figures they were working from seemed a little high for just Limerick. However as they don't quote the population they are working from you have to work that figure out by looking at crimes that list both actual and proportional figures and them check if they proportional is worked out by 1k or 100k and reverse their math. But I can't say for sure.

As for Galway it becomes more difficult. When it comes to overall crime figures they only give proportional and as Galway is divided in two and joined with Roscommon it isn't possible to work out they actual crime figures in Galway. And it is extremely feasible that Roscommon's figures reduce the proportional crime figures for Galway, as it is probable Roscommon has less crime than Galway. However I can't say for sure, as I for one would never have picked Donegal as the country's rape and sexual assault capital.

billy the squid

I would imagine that any crime committed in the area covered by the Limerick Division of the Gardai would be considered a Limerick Crime.

I mean it was Gardai from Henry Street were investigating the ardnacrusha murder last week.

Karmafaerie

What really gets me though, is the out, and out lies that you'll find in the media.
Only a few weeks ago, I read a report that stated 2/3 of all gun crime in Ireland, took place in Limerick.
They never game any actual figures, so I was very wary of the validity of the story.
With these new Garda figures stating that 228 firearms offences taking place in Dublin, and only 19 in Limerick, it shows how ridiculous the original statement was.
I know that the Garda reports were stating robberies with the use of firearms, not overall gun crimes, but it gives you a fair indicator of the amounts of guns being used in both cities.

iguana

Karmafaerie wrote:

With these new Garda figures stating that 228 firearms offences taking place in Dublin, and only 19 in Limerick, it shows how ridiculous the original statement was.

That's just the robbery and assaults, I'd guess more than a few of those 27 murders in Dublin were also gun crimes.

7mountpleasant

If you look at all the other cities outside of dublin they have there rough areas yes but nothing like the island(friend drove me through it once and I nearly shat myself) or southhill. Nowhere in this country do you have areas with large numbers of burnt out houses and so much visible heads floating around the place. I think all this ultra defensive stuff is understandable noody likes to see thier hometown knocked but to deny that the problems in limerick are far more serious than other parts of the country is laughable. This city has lots of nice areas and amenities and on the whole a very progressive attitude but to say that the anti-social problems here are on a par with the rest of the country is a bloody joke.

Karmafaerie

7mountpleasant wrote:

If you look at all the other cities outside of dublin they have there rough areas yes but nothing like the island(friend drove me through it once and I nearly shat myself) or southhill. Nowhere in this country do you have areas with large numbers of burnt out houses and so much visible heads floating around the place. I think all this ultra defensive stuff is understandable noody likes to see thier hometown knocked but to deny that the problems in limerick are far more serious than other parts of the country is laughable. This city has lots of nice areas and amenities and on the whole a very progressive attitude but to say that the anti-social problems here are on a par with the rest of the country is a bloody joke.

It's people like you that cause bar room arguements!
Over and over again, we point out that nobody here denies that Limerick has a problem but you keep coming back and saying that we are.
You make ridiculous statements, with no evidence to back them up.
Every major city has bad areas, you've seen Limericks, but you haven't seen them in other cities, so you assume they're not there.
The gardai figure are put right in front of you, proving that Limerick has less crime than the other major cities, and that almost half of all crime in this country is in Dublin, with 7 1/2 times more crime PER CAPITA than Limerick.
And still you remain in your blinkered little world!
Sad.

iguana

7mountpleasant wrote:

to deny that the problems in limerick are far more serious than other parts of the country is laughable.

But they aren't, look at the facts. Your opinion is your opinion, but it doesn't change the facts.

And btw have you ever take a stroll up Domnic St? Or Dolphin's Barn? Or Darndale? Ever been to Ballymun towers before they were knocked?

Or Ballyfermot, where several of my fiance's college classmates (in different incidents) were needle attacked on the bus home.

I'm not denying that there are absolute sh*tholes in Limerick, there are. But they are by no means exclusive to Limerick, they are in lots of places. And the fact remains that Limerick's crime levels are significantly lower, per head of population, than Dublin's or Cork's.

7mountpleasant

I accept your point on West Dublin Karma, however I don't believe that the anti-social problems in limerick can be explained away by Garda stats. Give me the galway/waterford/cork/kilkenny version's of the collopys,keanes,dundons,ryans,mccarthy's. As I said I am merely expressing a opinion one which people can choose to ignore or not. There are three of us living in our house all from different parts of the country and when I put the question to the two lads (who moved to limerick at the same time I did) they both agreed that they found the anti-social element in this city to be far and away above anything they had seen in other parts of the country. I am sick of limerick people constantly telling me that black is white and that this city is an oasis of calm , and i don't need to go to the cso webpage to tell me what I see every day. As I pointed out earlier I like certain elements of the city but this uber defensive denials of its problems is something that really irks me.

Karmafaerie

Okay, deep breath.....calm!
I'll try this again, we are not saying that Limerick doesn't have a problem.
We know that there is a problem, we are complaining about the medias,.....well, lies basically.
Please accept that we all know that there is a problem, but not one as bad as the media makes out.
Black is black, and white is white, but sometimes things are grey!
Also, as I pointed out before, whether you'll admit it (even to yourself) or not, you had a preconceived image of Limerick, from the media, before you ever got here.
This would have subconsciously made you look for trouble that would not have been there otherwise.
If you were planning a holiday to India, you'd be self-conscious of the food, because all anybody says about it is that it'll mess up your stomach.
That's the attitude most people have towards Limerick.
They see trouble, that people who haven't been scared by the media know isn't there.
In otherwards "If da man on da telly said it, then it must be true!!!"

7mountpleasant

In the words of chris rock "the media never chased me down the street at 3 o clock in the morning". I think I have enough cop on to differentiate what I am told by the media. I base my opinion on my expieriences, but listen as I said it is only an opinion and I understand if people have different ones.

Karmafaerie

Okay then, be honest.
What was your opinion of Limerick before you got here?
Did you think that Limerick had the lowest crime rates(for the four big countries) in the whole country?

Here's my experience on what you are saying.
I'm not sure where you grew up, but people always feel safer, where they came from.
When ever I'm out for the night in limerick, I think nothing of it, but Whenever I've gone out in Cork, Galway, or Dublin (come to think of it anywhere else both in, and outside of Ireland), I'm always paranoid.
It's a comfort thing.
A lot of the trepidation you have towards Limerick, is simply down to the fact that you are not yet comfortable here, but this has been made subconsciously worse by the medias representation.
It' the same way, that Americans (for the most part) think that anybody who isn't American, is automatically stupid.
It's all down to preconceptions, and in Ireland, Limerick has gotten the short end of the stick.

7mountpleasant

Having lived with limerick people and bieng friends with lot of limerick people before I moved I actually believed that it was all just media hype and that it was the same as everywhere else due to the constant insistence of said limerick people of same. I can honestly say that my opinion was altered by expierience.

iguana

7mountpleasant wrote:

Give me the galway/waterford/cork/kilkenny version's of the collopys,keanes,dundons,ryans,mccarthy's.

I can't give you that as I haven't lived there, but why have you ignored the awful areas I've pointed out in Dublin? I'd guess it would be the same reason that you are insisting your opinion outweighs the evidence to the contrary. You have set notions and if someone points out something that you don't like you ignore it.

I have always found the northside area of Dublin city to be the most intimidating area of the country, but I'm not going to the deny the fact that the southside is actually worse. Because the facts show that it is. And I am not so arrogant to believe that my perception is more accurate than the facts.

Karmafaerie

iguana wrote:

I can't give you that as I haven't lived there, but why have you ignored the awful areas I've pointed out in Dublin? I'd guess it would be the same reason that you are so arrogant to believe that your opinion outweighs the evidence to the contrary.

And why do you (7mount) only respond to parts of what I said too?
As I pointed out, I've only ever felt truly comfortable when going out in Limerick, as I know my way around Limerick.
I always feel slightly apprehensive when going out elsewhere.
Also you stated earlier, that you hated the way that the people of Limerick defend their city with blanket denunciations!
Well what do you expect when all that a lot of people from outside of Limerick
do is put Limerick down with blanket denunciations!
Lastly, you've yet to say where you yourself are from?
If you don't want to for some reason, then fine, but it may help to answer a few questions?

Amazotheamazing

Lads, I think you're being pretty unfair on 7mountpleasant, they're giving honest feedback on the city and that should be appreaciated.

Karmafaerie

We're not trying to make this personal or anything, its just that he keeps accusing us of stuff that we keep saying that we're not doing!
And everybody on his side of the arguement, seemed to leave when iguana posted the facts!
It's all only a bit of fun anyway.

Limerick Dude

i think there is a pretty bad amosphere in limerick sometimes, especially in the city centre. there seems to be way more scumbags around the place than in other cities ive been to in ireland, dublin, cork, galway. limerick has its upsides but there is most definetly a real bad atmosphere around.......like the only place in limerick that doesnt have scumbags would be the university.

Inge Binge

Limerick Dude, and this is exactly what makes a few people unhappy and feeling not safe enough because those scumbags don't give the image of well-behaving nice kids who just eat there HB cone in front of HMV or in the Arthurs Quai Park... If you see those subjects everywhere all over the place everybody will be alert because you always expect trouble from them - and they prove it all too often...

camilla

Karmafaerie

Limerick Dude wrote:

i think there is a pretty bad amosphere in limerick sometimes, especially in the city centre. there seems to be way more scumbags around the place than in other cities ive been to in ireland, dublin, cork, galway. limerick has its upsides but there is most definetly a real bad atmosphere around.......like the only place in limerick that doesnt have scumbags would be the university.

Inge Binge wrote:

Limerick Dude, and this is exactly what makes a few people unhappy and feeling not safe enough because those scumbags don't give the image of well-behaving nice kids who just eat there HB cone in front of HMV or in the Arthurs Quai Park... If you see those subjects everywhere all over the place everybody will be alert because you always expect trouble from them - and they prove it all too often...

camilla

Yeah.
In other cities, a lot of that element hang out in their own areas (God that came out very snobbishly:) ) but in Limerick, they seem more happy to hang out in and around the cit center itself.
I reckon that it's simply because they have nothing to do out in their own estates, so they head in to town.
At the same time, they all do tend to be about 12-16, so besides being loud and obnoxious, most of them aren't going to cause too much trouble.

Inge Binge

Karmafaerie wrote:

At the same time, they all do tend to be about 12-16, so besides being loud and obnoxious, most of them aren't going to cause too much trouble.

Well, is wee Johnny just playing if he's throwing stones at cars and busses? Is little Liam just some innocent fun by ripping the bushes out in Peoples Park? Is it just harmless if they bullying and try to push each other into the traffic? This are things i even wouldn't have done in the dark of the noght - but here they do this at broad daylight! And not just one or two of those guys! And it's even worse that 12yrs old boys are doing this!! Age is no excuse for misbehaving in my opinion.

If you have a car you wouldn't think it's funny havin a stone thrown at your car or one of them under your wheels, if you care for or even love the park (the only decent park we have in town!) then you wouldn't think it's funny.

Those not supervised feckers (i really refuse to write "kids") are tomorrow's criminals!

In Germany we have an expression: "Put them all in a bag, hit this bag with a bludgeon and you always get the right one"

IB

Limerick Dude

More gardai on the beat around town would make me feel more relaxed, i never see a garda walk around the city centre on a saturday, very rarely anyway.

Karmafaerie

Inge Binge wrote:

Well, is wee Johnny just playing if he's throwing stones at cars and busses? Is little Liam just some innocent fun by ripping the bushes out in Peoples Park? Is it just harmless if they bullying and try to push each other into the traffic? This are things i even wouldn't have done in the dark of the night - but here they do this at broad daylight! And not just one or two of those guys! And it's even worse that 12yrs old boys are doing this!! Age is no excuse for misbehaving in my opinion.

If you have a car you wouldn't think it's funny havin a stone thrown at your car or one of them under your wheels, if you care for or even love the park (the only decent park we have in town!) then you wouldn't think it's funny.

Those not supervised feckers (i really refuse to write "kids") are tomorrow's criminals!

In Germany we have an expression: "Put them all in a bag, hit this bag with a bludgeon and you always get the right one"

IB

Well being from Germany, you may not have grown up with this (P.S. this is not an excuse).
I can understand why it would be so alien to you, but you'll find little scuts like that all over Ireland and the UK.
It's funny that you mentioned buses, cause I didn't find it funny a few months back when I spent a weekend in Dublin, and over the three days, was on two different buses that had stones thrown at them! And then on the way home on the train, a brick was thrown at the carriage ahead of me, just on the outskirts of Dublin.
Whether you were in Cork, Limerick, Dublin, Sligo, or Leitrim, you'll find them.
The ignorant statement that a lot of people make, is that their are more of them in Limerick, than there are elsewhere, and that's not true.
Tell me, would you walk through the Phoenix par up in Dublin on your own after dark?
A lot of people have a double standard for Limerick.
It doesn't matter what happens somewhere else, but if it happens in Limerick, then they jump on it.

irishguy

Limerick Dude wrote:

More gardai on the beat around town would make me feel more relaxed, i never see a garda walk around the city centre on a saturday, very rarely anyway.

i seem to see them too much when i am out :rolleyes:

Amazotheamazing

I think people are getting to the real issue now, which isn't crime (imo) but anti-social behaviour and a bad atmosphere in the city centre.

Taking both separately, anti-social behaviour can, and is being tackled, especially by cctv in the city centre.This doesn't solve the problem but it restrains it somewhat.

Now on the atmosphere in the city centre, I honestly beleive that until we get rid of the main Ennis/Galway road running through the centre of town the city centre will always be dirty, noisy and unpleasant. A huge number of vehicles pass through town every day simply becuase there is no other major bridging point this at this point on the Shannon. Grafton, Shop, and most of Patrick st (in Dublin, Galway and Cork) have been pedestrinaised and they've all been improved hugely becuase of it. O'Connell street should not be part of a major national route, and yet, becuase we can't build proper infrastructure in this country, it is.