seriously ...how much car and how much kit do you really need?

Lex Luthor

Anan1 wrote:

Why not go the whole hog and just buy a horse?

I suppose you boil your water on the hob & watch B&W TV with no remote control and no cable.:p

I'm actually surprised you actually use the internet.....:rolleyes:

go back to your cave;)

Lex Luthor

eoin_s wrote:

Of all the gadgets mentioned so far, I think the heated seats are the worst - absolutely horrible feeling, especially as some of them take ages to cool down again..

Thats why they are now putting cooling fans in the seats aswell.....:rolleyes:

eoin_s wrote:

Picking up my new car next week, and it has (that the Alfa doesn't) cruise control, 6CD change, Automatic Stability Control, integrated phone thingy and aircon. Not pushed about the phone kit, as I don't like using a phone while driving, regardless of whether it is properly integrated or not.

What you get? Did you sell the Alfa?

highdef

Have to say that in the depths of winter, I get up in the morning, go out to the car, turn it on, set the temp on the CC and switch the heater on the seat. Go back in and have bite to eat. Come back out 5 minutes later in a t-shirt (even if it's below feezing outside) and climb into a lovely warm car with a nice hot leather armchair. Fan Bloody Tastsic!!!!

I also think Air con is brilliant. I leave it to do it's own thing. Air con only comes on if it gets too warm in the cabin so that the incoming air cannot cool the car down. Although in the damp winter months, I often switch it on manually to clear the windscreen and all the windows in a matter of seconds.

I also dont think I'll be able to drive a "stick-shift" car again

Traction control is another great safety feature, for me anyway - Car is RWD so if for example, I am coming from a side street onto a main street and it's raining and thr traffic is heavy, I can quite safely put the foot to the floor and pull out without the back end trying to become the front end :eek: In the same way that you can plant your foot on the brake with ABS and also turn at the same time instead of going in a straight line with the wheels locked up.

Another feature I haven't mentioned but which I more or less take for granted now is an auto dimming rear view mirrow - fantastic when driving at night. I could be on a back road with no street lights and the guy behind me could have his full beams on and it wouldn't bother me all that much.

Big Balls

Most cars with traction control have it for a reason and it doesn't just "stop the wheels spinning".

You've clearly never driven a powerful 1990s BMW.

Heated leather seats feel fantastic I think.

peasant

I've driven all sorts of things and I do know what you're talking about ...

But the question was ...how much car/gimmicks do you really need?

Surely you don't NEED a car that has so much power that it can't even put it onto the road without electronic help?

Wanting one is a different matter ..

But I'd go so far as to say that car designers have become lazy. Instead of fine tuning geometry and setup to make a really good handling car, they just plonk in a big, strong engine at one end, ever wider tyres at the other and everything inbetween gets managed, controlled, regulated and measured every millisecond to make it driveable at all ....


Oh ...and this one ...

Traction control is another great safety feature, for me anyway - Car is RWD so if for example, I am coming from a side street onto a main street and it's raining and thr traffic is heavy, I can quite safely put the foot to the floor and pull out without the back end trying to become the front end In the same way that you can plant your foot on the brake with ABS and also turn at the same time instead of going in a straight line with the wheels locked up.

no offence ...but what about learning how to drive properly instead of relying on the car to do it for you?

KeRbDoG

Big Nelly wrote:

Try parking a car without moving the wheel while stationary? its impossible

Every drive a Sports-pack Mini (old style) on wide alloys? No power steering to speak of. Its not impossible at all, just a bit of work.
I can understand why some girls wouldn't like it but lads saying a car without power steering is impossible to move the wheel while stationary - tis a joke no?

Brings me back to my dad speaking about his days driving Buses in the UK/Ireland about 20-30 years ago. No power steering

highdef

Peasant, I've passed the test in the institute of advanced motorists so i can drive - I'm not perfect. Nobody is. What I'm trying to say that as my car is RWD and quite powerful, trying to accelerate from a stop on wet ground and also turn inevitably needs to at least one of the wheels spinning. The traction control simply drops the power and/or applies brakes to this wheel, or both if both are spinning. Yes, it is being lazy but yes, I can make the maneuvore a lot more safely and predictably which is the most important thing. I wont pull out in front of traffic if means cars on the main road have to brake. What I'm saying is in the above situation, with traction control off, I would have to be light footed with the throttle which will mean slower take off speed which means I have to allow a bigger gap in traffic before I attempt to pull out.

Squirrel

kerbdog wrote:

Every drive a Sports-pack Mini (old style) on wide alloys? No power steering to speak of. Its not impossible at all, just a bit of work.
I can understand why some girls wouldn't like it but lads saying a car without power steering is impossible to move the wheel while stationary - tis a joke no?

Brings me back to my dad speaking about his days driving Buses in the UK/Ireland about 20-30 years ago. No power steering

I think Big Nelly meant that you do have to turn the steering wheel while stationary to park, and that it would be impossible to park if you didn't turn the steering wheel while stationary.

The Micra I'm learning in doesn't have power steering, it's no hassle for me, but for my mam coming from Sonata with power steering she finds it difficult

peasant

highdef
Nothing personal ...and I trust you that you can drive... but your argument just underlines a point that has been made elsewhere on this forum before.

Add a safety feature to a car, and people will automatically calculate it into their judgment of any given situation and drive more forcefully because they know (or assume) that the gimmicks will take care of it.

So, any new safety feature is soon negated by increasingly bad driving habits ...or the other way round ...one shouldn't NEED traction control, one should be able to drive accordingly as if it wasn't there and it should only ever come on to override human error.

But car designers are actually designing cars these days that can only be driven safely if and when the traction control is on ....thats madness.

It should be a last resort safety measure, not a driving aid. The same goes for ABS, EBD, EBS and whatever else there is. A good driver should not need all these thing and neither should a well designed car. Unfortunately we're all pretty bad drivers, driving badly designed cars, so these gimmicks are becoming a must.

In the three years that I have driven a car with ABS, it only needed to operate once ...and that was because I seriously misjudged a narrow bend with a puddle in it. Yes, I was grateful the ABS was there and I certainly needed it then ...but if the ABS comes on on a daily basis, that driver shouldn't be on the road at all.

commited

Squirrel wrote:

I think Big Nelly meant that you do have to turn the steering wheel while stationary to park, and that it would be impossible to park if you didn't turn the steering wheel while stationary.

No it wouldnt be though. A reverse parallel park should be a fluid movement without coming completely to a halt (except to change direction). Before you have finished reversing you turn the steering wheel to the opposite lock (at low speed but still moving). Then you move forward and straighten up.

Squirrel

Hypothertical situation:

You drive into a space at the end of a queue parked on the side of a road, say at a race or some such event. Your wheels are turned into the kerb if it's on a hill, or left dead ahead on flat. A car parks behind you and you're in between 2 cars when leaving. Chances are you won't drive straight either into one of the cars or the kerb, you'll turn the steering wheel while stationary. It happens all the time at athletics meets

peasant

I once had to drive an old army truck (built in 1956) without any mechanical aids. While parking we got so boxed in that I HAD to turn the steering wheel while stationary. It took two of us to turn the wheel ..couldn't do it on my own (and I'm no bantam weight:D ).

Having said that ...once you had the slightest bit of movement(forward or backward), turning the wheel was no problem.

(and the non-syncromesh gearbox was fun as well)

Matt Simis

peasant wrote:

highdef

It should be a last resort safety measure, not a driving aid. The same goes for ABS, EBD, EBS and whatever else there is. A good driver should not need all these thing and neither should a well designed car. Unfortunately we're all pretty bad drivers, driving badly designed cars, so these gimmicks are becoming a must.

So your problem really isnt what you class as "gimmicks", its that people are driving cars like ho-hum tools and not spending time learning a "craft"...?

Most people dont care about becoming a good driver, maybe they are good at other things, maybe they are just idiots. I feel safer that those idiots are protected (/protected from them) with ABS, Traction Control, Windows that shut themselves etc myself.

Oh, I do like GPS, Heated Seats, Electric Windows, Mirrors and Doors, ABS, PS etc etc. If cars were invented in the age of computing they would have all this crap in from the get go and you would have to complain bout something else and you know it!


Matt

peasant

Matt Simis wrote:

So your problem really isnt ...

Matt

No "problem" here ...I was just wondering out loud. Must be my age and the fact that I have actually managed to drive zero gimmick cars, liked it and lived to tell the tale

Lex Luthor

I love my leather seats in my Alfa. Wouldn't buy a car without them in future.

Electric mirrors over rated but heated not.
Electric windows & central locking the 2 most essentials along with PS & ABS.
Traction control essential on RWD cars.
Brake pad wear sensors also a good idea.
Sunroof, take it or leave it.

colm_mcm

I shudder to think where we'd be without silicone-damped grab handles or slush moulded dashboard plastics.....

Eoin

Lex Luthor wrote:

Thats why they are now putting cooling fans in the seats aswell.....:rolleyes:

You're kidding - that's going a bit far!

Lex Luthor wrote:

What you get? Did you sell the Alfa?

Trading it in next week against a BMW 320D. Will be sorry to see it go.

highdef wrote:

Have to say that in the depths of winter, I get up in the morning, go out to the car, turn it on, set the temp on the CC and switch the heater on the seat. Go back in and have bite to eat. Come back out 5 minutes later in a t-shirt (even if it's below feezing outside) and climb into a lovely warm car with a nice hot leather armchair. Fan Bloody Tastsic!!!!

I'd prefer the opposite - i.e. getting into a nice cool car on a hot day.

Max_Damage

My Micra has nothing in it, no electric windows, no electric mirrors, no power steering, no airbags, no A/C, no nothing, and yet, that's the way I like it. Less things to go wrong in my opinion.

Someone here said 'try driving a Polo or Fiesta without power steering is hard work'. Bollocks to that, my car doesn't have P/S, and yet the steering is as light as a feather,

Cars are just getting far to gimikie in my opinion, no one needs GPS or reverse sensor things, electric this, that and the other, and no-one at all needs a glove box with A/C (Nissan Note anyone?)

The only car that really comes with 'nothing' as a standard feature is the Dacia Logan, which unfortantly isn't sold here.

Eoin

Max_Damage wrote:

My Micra has nothing in it, no electric windows, no electric mirrors, no power steering, no airbags, no A/C, no nothing, and yet, that's the way I like it. Less things to go wrong in my opinion.

Someone here said 'try driving a Polo or Fiesta without power steering is hard work'. Bollocks to that, my car doesn't have P/S, and yet the steering is as light as a feather,

Just because the micra doesn't need power steering doesn't mean that the others don't. The micra is a very different car to drive than the other two.

Max_Damage

Well, I've also driven a Fiesta ('88) without P/S, no problem at all, just like my Micra.

maidhc

Max_Damage wrote:

Well, I've also driven a Fiesta ('88) without P/S, no problem at all, just like my Micra.

I learned to drive in a 1986 Toyota Corolla 1.8 Diesel. The steering was bloody heavy.

I agree certain things are excessive, like fan cooled and electic heated seats, but I think things like A/c, cruise control, electric windows, cd players all make the drivers life that bit easier, and they dont cost that much in comparison to the more complicated electronics under the bonnet that keep emissions and so forth in check.

I certainly wouldnt like to be doing 20k a year in a bottom of the range micra!

opus

A friend of mine once said he didn't care much about the rest as long as the car has a big f**king engine!! (direct quote)

I'd tend to agree but I do like having ABS as well. The rest I could take or leave to be honest. Am currently driving a 10 year old 328 with a fairly basic spec (no aircon, traction control etc etc) but it ticks all the boxes for me.

colm_mcm

Here are the little things that I like:

One button for child locks and rear electric window locks (french cars usually)
Auto folding mirrors (especially on jeeps)
Steering wheel remote controls (again thanks French!)
Folding Rear sets (think that was also a french
Automatic headlights
Memory seats, steering wheel and mirrors
Cruise control and speed limiter (especially the merc version)