Census

Ruadan

Ah yes that time of year when the government finds out what 4 million people are willing to admit to on a survey form (and proceeds to largely ignore)

Now i notice theres a section to fill out ones religion, i don't have it here, but AFAIR theres a fiew boxes beside Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam..etc and an "other" option with enough space to fill in a word or 2, so i've been wondering what to write. "Pagan" seems the most obvious option, but i have in the past been told by Uni officials, survey takers etc. that it means the same as Atheist and had to explain it out.

I know that "Druid" appeared a lot at the last Census, and that Jedi usually has a strong showing, but even though only a small amount of em are practising, most people of my generation will stick down Catholic rather than something appropriate like Agnostic.

So, how have ye filled out census forms in the past? and will the CSO understand the difference between Paganism and Atheism? (i konw well our local officials bask home won't ahve a clue)

Nevyn

honestly I don't think the seperate them and they all get tabulated just as 'other'

kippy

Are there not three of five similiar threads on the Census at this stage?


EDIT-Sorry am beginining to see why this one is different.
Kippy

Litcagral

Ruadan wrote:

most people of my generation will stick down Catholic rather than something appropriate like Agnostic. QUOTE]

Probably because the explanatory guidelines state that the frequency of church attendance is irrelevant when nominating a religion.

lostexpectation

there must be a more detailed report somewhere ( and it should be available online) of the range all the faiths entered

Litcagral

lostexpectation wrote:

there must be a more detailed report somewhere ( and it should be available online) of the range all the faiths entered

The Jewish community are a bit annoyed that they have to be entered as "other".

Scofflaw

Thaedydal wrote:

honestly I don't think the seperate them and they all get tabulated just as 'other'

They certainly distinguished Atheist in the last Census, and were able to report all 500 of us - see here for the full breakdown, including Pantheists.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

ah right forgot about that again

akari no ryu

All "other" marked fields are counted as "other".
No further statistical analysis is done on the religion field.
It counts up the quantity of certain abrahamic faith adherants, nothing more nothing less.
I have contacted the central statistics office in this regard, they are not inclined to bother counting the individual "other" religions.

If the census was done online, there would be no need for this nonsense.
Instead of sending out a form to ever family, you send out an instruction booklet, containing an activation code. Each activation code allows you fill in the form once and is, then, expired.

Then, counting any information in the system becomes a matter of running database queries.

However, if our government catch on to this, they'll only **** it up like they did the e-voting thing.

NeilJ

akari no ryu wrote:

However, if our government catch on to this, they'll only **** it up like they did the e-voting thing.

Well that depends on whether they used consultants or not. If they just got a few computer science grads and said do this and if you don't do it right you don't get paid, well I reckon it would be done pretty well. Though perhaps I'm being a bit naive in thinking the government could go so far as to draw up a concise contract outlining clearing the objectives of the job. In all fairness they'd probably scribble down something in pencil on the back of an envelope and when it wasn't done probably find they couldn't do anything cause they hadn't properly outlined what was to be done. Sorry, just got a flashback of the National Aquatic Centre. God I love our government, at least the English put in proper train and tram systems (before we ripped them up)!!

Neil

Scofflaw

NeilJ wrote:

Well that depends on whether they used consultants or not. If they just got a few computer science grads and said do this and if you don't do it right you don't get paid, well I reckon it would be done pretty well. Though perhaps I'm being a bit naive in thinking the government could go so far as to draw up a concise contract outlining clearing the objectives of the job. In all fairness they'd probably scribble down something in pencil on the back of an envelope and when it wasn't done probably find they couldn't do anything cause they hadn't properly outlined what was to be done.

Actually, those are the ones that work - because what gets written on the envelope tends to be what they actually want to end up with, and the contractors look after how it gets done. What screws it up is when the Civil Service actually write a detailed spec, because they specify all kinds of stupid and unworkable stuff. That's partly why small IT projects tend to work well, and big ones fail - good IT is goal-oriented.

The reverse applies to the financial and management arrangements, which should never be done on the back of an envelope, because they're process-oriented.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Ruadan

Weird that Judaism isn't in as a box to tick, they've only been here 600 odd years like.

NeilJ

But according to the last census there isn't even 2,000 of them in the country, therefore they're not statisically relevant enough to get their own category. Much as we aren't statistically relevant enough to get our own category (yet).

Neil

Talliesin

And we probably never will be, but yes, the checkboxes are all about speed of entry and processing and nothing else. The last census had a box for Judaism (though just "Jewish" as one block, which pissed off someone I used to know who wanted to make his denomination clear) and didn't have one for Islam.

lostexpectation

akari no ryu wrote:

All "other" marked fields are counted as "other".
No further statistical analysis is done on the religion field.

its only about Other stated religions 8,920

It counts up the quantity of certain abrahamic faith adherants, nothing more nothing less.
[\quote]
there is about 20 differents faiths on that list not bad

Undergod

Where did you find the list of faiths for 'other stated?'

I'm surprised that Baha'i is on the main list and Sikhism isn't.

lostexpectation

yes I don't know what that is about?

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandsex2002.htm

is there breaking down of Catholic somewhere, how many go to church, how many pray, how many follow it to what degree?

Nevyn

I doubt it as the cenus didnt ask those types of questions, but I gather lasped catholics don't practice any more.

Cactus Col

akari no ryu wrote:

If the census was done online, there would be no need for this nonsense.
Instead of sending out a form to ever family, you send out an instruction booklet, containing an activation code. Each activation code allows you fill in the form once and is, then, expired.

Then, counting any information in the system becomes a matter of running database queries.

Well, I'd imagine that for now, and for the forseeable future, the option of doing it this way is completly out of the question .... mainly because to do so, would mean that EVERY household would have to have access to the internet.

Undergod

There's public internet access, but then that would have the problem of not being filled out at home at a certain time.
You could fill out a form and then wite it up on the internet, but that's just impractical.

Or they could get Internet access to every house.

NeilJ

But you'd also need computing course's for a huge section of the population. Considering how many people over 60 have problems handling mobile phones how do you expect elderly people on their own to fill out an online form?

Pepe LeFrits

Drssd in a green vlvt coat nd werng a crwn of ox-i dyses ovr hs emrld-dyd hair, mike, a slcitr frm Hrtfrdshre, ws @ pains 2 prsrve his annymty. D lwyr ws 1 of 700 ppl attnding d pagn prd mrch in cntrl Lndn ystrdy 2 dmnstrt tht d plythistic fths of ancnt tmes r alive nd wll in Brtin. Pgnism is nw d 8th lrgst rligus grp in d UK wth sme 40000 ppl slctng it as thr fth, acrdng 2 d 2001 cnss.

D Pgn Fdrtin of Grt Brtn, whch rprsnts mny of d fth grs frm Wcns 2 Drds, estmts d # of blievrs @ btwn 50000 nd 200000. D Prsn Srvice annnced lst yr dat pgan inm8s wld hv d sme rghts 2 wrshp as adhrnts 2 Chrsttnty, Islm r Jdism. Bt 4 thse attndng d mrch - heded by a Jck in d Grn, a wlkng ntlr-adrnd bsh rprsnting d frtilty nd rnwal of d Celtc ceson of Bltne - d prde ws tmprd by rsntmnt of d prjdce nd dstrst dat srrnds pgnism. n Essx schltechr ws sspndd frm hs pst in 2000 whn he rvld tht he ws a "wtch"and cvn mmbr as wll as d Pgan Fdrtin's ntinl yth mngr.

Mke, hu ws wtchng hs 2 yng chldrn dncng in a fntn @ d hart of Rssll Sq 2 d beet of a bnd cllng thmslvs d Pntcl Drmmrs, sd: "Ive bn a pgan fllwer snce unvrsiy. It embrces d sbjcts we shld rlly b cncrnd abt - hmnitys atttde 2 d Mthr Erth we all cum frm.

"Bt if u wlk into d offce nd sey, 'Hy, I'm a pgan', they all assme u r a dvl-wrshppng bby kllr. Ther is an endrng sspcn nd dstrst whch, if it ws dircte @ Hndus r Jus r Muslms, wud prbbly b a crmnl offnce."

Nevyn

Pepe LeFrits please rewrite that last post and make it readible or it will be deleted.
You do no post in that fashion on any of the other froms no reason what so ever to do it here.

Talliesin

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Drssd in a green vlvt coat nd werng a crwn of ox-i dyses ovr hs emrld-dyd hair, [...and more rubbish in this ilk]

It's like he's trying to communicate something to us, but I can't determine what.

Li'l Irish

Just put 'kitchen witch' on evyerthing; it keeps people suitably confused.

Pepe LeFrits

sry ppl

Nevyn

Quite frankly you apear not to be as you have posted in the same fashion again.
banned for a month.

New_Departure06

This is a fair point. I guess Paganism is more low profile and not as coherent in that it can refer to loads of different religions including wiccans etc. Maybe that's why the CSO didn't put it down.