Waterford Stanley and 'the workers paradise'.

mike65

from examiner

One hundred and twenty workers at the Waterford Stanley plant have been put on protective notice due to a dispute over the planned relocation of the factory.

The staff are believed to have been told this morning that they will laid off shortly following a breakdown in talks between management and union officials.

The dispute centres around plans to move the factory from its current location and the workers' demands for a relocation payment.

Talks on the matter took place at the Labour Relations Commission this week, but broke down without agreement.

The Technical, Engineering and Electrical Union has said it is hopeful that the talks will resume and that a resolution can be found.

The TEEU are after a €2,000 handout for moving 5 km to a site which may well be closer to where many live!

Give me stength, why should anyone get paid for such minor disruption?

I hope WS close the place and move production to Poland.

Mike.

decies

mike65 wrote:

from examiner



The TEEU are after a €2,000 handout for moving 5 km to a site which may well be closer to where many live!

Give me stength, why should anyone get paid for such minor disruption?

I hope WS close the place and move production to Poland.

Mike.

Be carefull mike you will be killed for saying that in this working class city of ours!!!!!!!
I never beleive in this celtic tiger anyway and i feel this economy especially locally is in for a huge shock:(

Dilbert75

They'd want to be careful with their brinksmanship on this one. This is the very same thing that happened in Pierces in Wexford, a sister company of WS. The dispute dragged on until the business died and they lost their jobs.

TwistsAndTurns

mike65 wrote:

The TEEU are after a €2,000 handout for moving 5 km to a site which may well be closer to where many live!

Give me stength, why should anyone get paid for such minor disruption?

I hope WS close the place and move production to Poland.

Mike.

What a selfish comment to make about any workers towords them loosing there jobs!

Right looking for relocation money is a thing of the past. I`am sure if it comes to lossing their job and not getting extra money they`ll rather keep there jobs.
These lads have already have deductions taken form there pay in the previous weeks and have refused to take industrial action, they stayed in work and went down the Labour Relations route.
It may have been an off the cuff comment but imagine if other employers said no to everything and upped and left the country.

mike65

Its the money for (next to) nothing mentality that I object to. They will be in nice newly refurbished plant and away from the current pre-war pile of bricks.

Anyone in private sector manufacturing is on thin ice at the best of times in this day and age, stirring it with needless demands is asking for trouble. I'd love to know where the presure for this payment came from. I imagine I'd need look no furthur than the shop stewards and local TEEU conveners.

Mike.

mad man

eirebhoys wrote:

What a selfish comment to make about any workers towords them loosing there jobs!

Right looking for relocation money is a thing of the past. I`am sure if it comes to lossing their job and not getting extra money they`ll rather keep there jobs.
These lads have already have deductions taken form there pay in the previous weeks and have refused to take industrial action, they stayed in work and went down the Labour Relations route.
It may have been an off the cuff comment but imagine if other employers said no to everything and upped and left the country.

This is a dangerous comment Mike especailly now the glass is in deep ****.Stanley and Waterford Crystal are two luxury products that put Waterford on the map.WS have there own shops just as WC do in the states.
Their loss would be another nail in the coffin for Waterford.

I think the dispute over relocation money is a mistake on their part.The unions are not providing leadership here.The reality is Manufacturing in Ireland is on its knees as it is in the rest of the west.The only industrys that have a medium term future are places which require a high skilled workforce or with a luxury name like Waterford Stanley.The WCTU vice chair Dick Roche is making speeches as if Waterford was in a protective bubble from the global economy.This is the guy who threatened to "bring Waterford to its knees" during the radiotherapy protest.

I went to school with Dick Roche and he has an Ego the size of China.When people like him threaten to bring a city to its knees that they are supposedely trying to help,you have to question there intelligence.The IDA must think we're all stupid ****s down here when they hear the likes of Dick Roche having a rant.There'll be no foreign investment if voices kike his are not drowned out.He also jumped on the anti-brewery bandwagon.

meldrew

mike65 wrote:

from examiner



The TEEU are after a €2,000 handout for moving 5 km to a site which may well be closer to where many live!

Give me stength, why should anyone get paid for such minor disruption?

I hope WS close the place and move production to Poland.

Mike.

That must be the most objectionable post I have ever read , how someone could come an and say he hopes jobs are moved to Poland , notwithstanding the situation at the plant , is crass and insensitive .
Obviously you have problems with unions and people standing up for their rights but to hope 120 more people are thrown on the scrapheap because you have an issue with their representatives is childish and mean-spirited .
Whatever problems are going on down there we should all be hoping for a resolution that suits the workers as well as the management and the jobs are kept in Ireland .
I dont know if you work youself Mike but judging by the amount of time you spend on here I have my doubts , but the next time you come out with stupid comments like that think about the people involved and their families and hope that you yourself are never in the situation where you have morons hoping your job is moved to Poland .
And before you come back with some smart comment , no I dont work there and yes I am a member of a union , I am not radicalised or left wing just an ordinary worker who would'nt like to be in that situation

mike65

Yes I work and hard for a wage which is less than the chaps looking for free money at WS.

As for standing up for thier rights, I don't see how rights and a two grand handout link up???

Mike.

meldrew

Why should it bother you what they look for ? Your attitude seems to be "sod em they have a job let them take all the crap the management throws at them they should be down on their knees in gratitude" , theres plenty of people get a lot more money for doing absolutely nothing in this country. They're perfectly entitled to ask but whether they get it is another thing thats what you have unions for , to negotiate on your behalf and to try and get you the best deal .
I suppose your attitude to the glass workers is " sod em its their own fault they wont work for the same wages as the chinese will so we'll send the work out there " ,
I cant believe your attitude for a working man

mike65

I guess I'm not as cynical as you are if you belive getting "the best deal" involves engineering disputes over a freebie.

Mike.

Litcagral

mike65 wrote:

Yes I work and hard for a wage which is less than the chaps looking for free money at WS.

As for standing up for thier rights, I don't see how rights and a two grand handout link up???

Mike.

It is generally a trade union policy to try to seek relocation expenses. It does not always work and in this case they would probably have settled for much less. Some companies, when wishing to reduce their workforce, have deliberately relocated their premises hoping that staff will be so inconvienced that they will leave voluntarily. In this way they will not have to pay redundancy etc. I realise that this is not the case with Waterford Stanley as the move is relatively short but it is probably a trade union principle.

meldrew

State employees get thousands of our money for re-locating and you're bitching over workers in the private sector looking for something . Thats rich! ,Theres a lot more going on down there but now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon blaming the union you can be sure the management are delighted with that . No matter what happens now in your eyes the union are to blame so theres no point in trying to argue with you .

Bards

State employee Unions + benchmarking = more money for less work. Dare I even mention driver testers...anyone..anyone...

Trade Unions + principals = job losses (most of the time)

Trotter

I think its old 70's / 80's style union talk. Looking for a payout because the factory moves 5km away is rubbish. They should be delighted it isnt moving 5000km away and thank their lucky stars they still have a job.

And before anyone asks.. Yes, I do know people who's jobs have been sent to India and Latvia... and they'd have much preferred the 5k option.

Theres enough corporate greed in this country without giving the senior management ammo to move the whole factory out of Ireland. Theres no common sense in looking for relocation money, anyone with an eye on the global economy would figure it out.

To me it sounds like someone in the unions is thinking they are much more powerful than they are, and it'll be the cause of a lack of investment in Waterford, and the cause of WS being relocated.

I also think that the idea that state employees get moving allowances for distances of less than 5km or 10km, so therefore so should WS workers, is rubbish. Both are equally as wrong.

Wakey wakey.. real world calling.. Moving to a 5km away plant means they're investing money and not sending the plant away. BE HAPPY.

TwistsAndTurns

Bards wrote:

State employee Unions + benchmarking = more money for less work. Dare I even mention driver testers...anyone..anyone...

Trade Unions + principals = job losses (most of the time)

Trade unions + less principals could also = min wages

I think most are in agreement that money for moving premises is a thing of the past and that jobs are sacred nowadays. But I still dont see Mike65 point of closure and moving to Poland and while he argues his other points he`s not sorry for making his rash comment or giving reasons why he feels people with houses and familys should be hurt in such a way.

Aquos76

Mike, is it dairyland you work for? Well if it is, I hope the the grocery order drives down the cost of branded milk(Not own brand milk, which is already much cheaper) and Dairyland are forced to let some people go. Hopefully you will change your opinion on it, when it actually affects you.

I, like many others on here work than hard for what I earn and I am also a member of a union, which so happens to be the TEEU. The union which is representing WS workers. Regardless of your opinions on the relocation money which they are after, You have some neck to come on here and say

I hope WS close the place and move production to Poland.

You are a self opinionated muppet.

mike65

Meldrew I think anyone geting paid for something thats not directly work related is wrong and that includes Xmas bonuses etc. As for the public sector they are worse. Jobs for life, benchmarking and they still string us along.

My coment on shifting production to Poland may be bold but it'll also come true unless the TEEU wise up.

Aquos I could report you for personal abuse but I wont.

Mike.

Litcagral

mike65 wrote:

I imagine I'd need look no furthur than the shop stewards and local TEEU conveners.Mike.

You don't seem to understand how trade unions operate. Shop stewards/officials are elected by the members and must carry out the wishes of the members - not the other way around. (Provided of course they do not contravene the 1990 Trade Union Act). I presume the decision to seek relocation expenses would have been discussed and balloted for. Trade unions operate a democratic system. Frequently shop stewards/officials are forced to fight for something that they may not personally believe in but they must put that aside and respect the wishes of their members.

mike65

Anyone know how such numbers are arrived at (2300 euro in this case)?

Think of a number and divide by the number of workers? Enough to sound worth aggitating for but not so much as to be a transparent blag?

Mike.

decies

Thought you might be in for a rough ride there mike.Look as far as i am concerned looking for money for relocation is just crazy,and i do worry about the the general state of the local economy,we have a senior minister locally and i am still waiting for mayor new jobs to be announanced:mad: :mad: :mad:

meldrew

I was talking to someone working there today and he said this whole relocation thing has been blown all out of proportion by management to disguise what is really going on , how about being put on 3 shifts for less money than day rate , how about constantly upping production until its at maximun and still being told its not enough , the management have won the publicity battle by zeroing in on the relocation thing and now people with little or no information on the subject are calling them greedy and they should be grateful to have their jobs . The workers down there have done everything in their power and more to keep those jobs in Ireland and this is their thanks people hoping their jobs willl go to Poland , it sickens me .
And another thing , , when Dick Roche was heading up the Radiotherapy campaign he was a great fella but now he's trying to safeguard Irish jobs he's an egomaniac , thats typical begrudgery for you knock your own .

TwistsAndTurns

My coment on shifting production to Poland may be bold but it'll also come true unless the TEEU wise up.

Why Mike65 why? Have you been on the wrong end of an industrial dispuie, have you have to pick up the pieces after being made redundent, having to make ends meet at Christmas with kids wanting to get the up to date toys?

I may sound dour but give us a break, moving jobs out of the country to prove that unions and management are right or wrong is wrong.

You give me the impression that you may not be married and maybe living at home so I`ll give you the benifet of the the doubt that you have not being through a serious situation that these people and families are going through at the moment. The answer that they take now will decide their future.

Dilbert75

Given that WS is owned by a bunch of venture capitalists, it can only be a very thin line between opening their new factory and shifting production to low cost region. If I understand it correctly, all the foundry operations are already gone, with only assembly remaining? I'm all in favour of a fair deal for workers but they'd want to be careful not to be seen to give management the excuse they'll want to push that further.

mike65

Moving the jobs would not be seen as a punishment of the workers by the owners, they would view it as a rational thing to do. Once it happens the operating costs are greatly reduced. Thats the background noise to this issue. Maybe we should be surprised it has'nt happened already.

Jobs of this nature (design/assembly) can be done almost anywhere these days. While the 'clerical' stuff is safer India has a thriving marketing/admin/customer services sector for western companies.

WS was bought by Aga Foodservice Group who are a proper company as far as I can tell. The Bilberry site has been sold to property developers who want to build a marina amoung other stuff.

Mike.

meldrew

Erebhoys I totally agree with you to quote an old saying "there but for the grace of God go I " who knows whats going to happen down the road ?
But to be actively wishing that a factory would close down , in your own hometown beggars belief , the people that this is happening to are real people with mortgages and kids and to think that somebody would actually think that to to teach them a lesson it would be better for their jobs to be moved to Poland than to give them what they are entitled to sickens me
Mike btw you were'nt being bold when you said what you said you just sounded bitter and in all fairness I would have to agree with Aquos in his description of you

jrd

mike65 wrote:

from examiner

The TEEU are after a €2,000 handout for moving 5 km to a site which may well be closer to where many live!

Give me stength, why should anyone get paid for such minor disruption?

I hope WS close the place and move production to Poland.

Mike.

Agree completely with first point. This is nuts and can only lead to 120 job losses. Wake up people and quickly.

Second point - not sure you meant that the way it sounds and looks. More like you could understand if that was the outcome of intransigence and beligerence by the union leaders.

Joe

meldrew

Why dont you look at the bigger picture ? Maybe its not the TEEU that are the villians of the piece here , its easy to blame the unions when things are going bad but this definitely looks like they're being set up as the fall guys in this case

Bards

from what I am hearing it was only the relocation money issue that has gone before the labour relations commission... Is this true?

If there was concern about payment for shift work then surely this would have gone before them too..

does anyone have a definitive answer

mike65

meldrew wrote:

But to be actively wishing that a factory would close down , in your own hometown beggars belief , the people that this is happening to are real people with mortgages and kids and to think that somebody would actually think that to to teach them a lesson it would be better for their jobs to be moved to Poland than to give them what they are entitled to sickens me

To what are the workers entitled? €2300 for nothing? As you say employees have mortgages and other on going commitents so they on earth would they want to endanger thier livelyhoods with such a needless demand?

Litcagral wrote:

You don't seem to understand how trade unions operate. Shop stewards/officials are elected by the members and must carry out the wishes of the members - not the other way around. (Provided of course they do not contravene the 1990 Trade Union Act). I presume the decision to seek relocation expenses would have been discussed and balloted for. Trade unions operate a democratic system

I'm not a member of a unionised workforce its true, however on the point at hand someone must have thought at some point "hey we can squeeze a few bob out of the company for the move" and I doubt it was one of the workers on the factory floor.

Mike.

Cabaal

mike65 wrote:

To what are the workers entitled? €2300 for nothing? As you say employees have mortgages and other on going commitents so they on earth would they want to endanger thier livelyhoods with such a needless demand?

I was actually thinking the same, getting the few K is not worth putting your job aT RISK!

In fairnes, when a company is moving it costs alot of money and the employee's shouldn't make things worse by increasing company expenses.

meldrew

well according to the news today they have dropped the relocation money demand but there are still other issues to be decided , the company have told them they could be left go by Friday anyway . so Mike might get his wish anyway :