Speed Trap radars

Anan1

Pataman wrote:

Not true. At the distance theynormally detect you, the beam is about 1 metre wide. It is usually pointed at the front of the car. Most cars are wider than 1 metre, so there will be no spill.

From what I've read, it's even less - maybe 10cms, depending on distance & weather conditions.

blastman

nereid wrote:

Good for you.

You won't be caught speeding by a Speed Trap radar gun from a member of the force in that case...

Don't be caught driving without due care and attention with your laser equipped cd player though...

Those things could take your eye out if you're not careful.

L.

The point was it's very easy to stray two km/h over the limit as per your example, unless you're looking at the speedo almost constantly, especially given that your speedo may not tally exactly with the particular laser being pointed at you by a member of the force. A not unreasonable defence, IMO.

Seth Brundle

Sizzler wrote:

kbannon wrote:

How did the calibration of the gun com e into the courtroom? I thought it was pretty much irrelevant as a defendant has to prove they are defective - the gardai don't have to prove anything as the law states that the equipment works fine, full stop.

Erm NO ! The cops are asked by the defence solicitor to take in the equipments maintenance records, if its outside the parameters of the stated period...eg around 6 mths then the courts opinion is it could not be relied upon hence the case gets thrown out.


eg

http://www.trafficticketsecrets.com/cross-examination.html

Not according to the RTA 2004...
[see pg 11 & 12]

15.—Section 21 of the Act of 2002 is amended—
(a) by substituting for subsection (1) the following:
‘‘(1) The onus of establishing prima facie proof of a constituent of an offence (including the speed at which a person, whether the accused or another person, was driving) under section 47, 52, 53, 55, 91, 92, 93 or 94 of the Principal Act or section 35 of the Act of 1994 may be discharged by tendering evidence from which that constituent can be inferred of measurements or other indications which were given by—
(a) electronic or other apparatus (including a camera) capable of providing a permanent record (including a permanent visual record) and are contained in such a record produced by it, or
(b) electronic or other apparatus (including a radar gun) which is not capable of producing a permanent record.
It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.’’,

Therefore, a solicitor asking for maintenance records is wasting the courts time!

Esel

blastman wrote:

The point was it's very easy to stray two km/h over the limit as per your example, unless you're looking at the speedo almost constantly, especially given that your speedo may not tally exactly with the particular laser being pointed at you by a member of the force. A not unreasonable defence, IMO.

Ah Jaysus, lads, be realistic. Has anyone ever been done for being 2kph over the limit?

Seth Brundle

Plenty from what I hear.
Also this guy on another forum URL="http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=29405&PN=1"]Speed check question[/URL was caught doing 75 in a 50, but he believes he was under the limit, he was not shown the gun reading and can do nothing but accept it.
I have spoken to him about it and I believe him.

Our man in Havana

kbannon wrote:

Not according to the RTA 2004...
[see pg 11 & 12]

Therefore, a solicitor asking for maintenance records is wasting the courts time!

I suspect the above law is unconsitutional. It's a wonder there has been no challenge to it yet.

Pherekydes

One might recall the phrase, "innocent, until proven guilty". This means they have to prove your guilt, and this means their equipment must be proven to be accurate, and this means it must be calibrated within a reasonable time period. Gee, lads, it's not rocket science...

The premise that asking for such records in a court is in anyway wrong is laughable.

Seth Brundle

Well as I mentioned in another thread a friend whom I believe is telling the truth was supposedly caught doing 75 in a 50 zone. He was not shown the gun or anything.
He can do nothing about it.

Our man in Havana

Next stop for your friend is a good SC and trip to the High Court.

Sizzler

I find it really hard to believe that you cant challenge the integrity of the equipment

I KNOW Ive seen articles in the indo in the last 2 years where cases have been thrown out. I mean how could you rely on a radar gun if its patently not working properly or has never been calibrated to a reasonable standard...

Turner

Pataman wrote:

Not true. At the distance theynormally detect you, the beam is about 1 metre wide. It is usually pointed at the front of the car. Most cars are wider than 1 metre, so there will be no spill.

The beam is not 1 metre wide, its pin point and invisible.

The guns are calibarated every 6 months and a record of this is kept on each gun. However the Gardai are not obliged to show you this.

Its kind of like a service sticker on the inside of a car.

Your next calibaration is due on the ?/?/200?

Turner

Bond-007 wrote:

Next stop for your friend is a good SC and trip to the High Court.

Might cost more than the €60 fine...

Alot more.

Our man in Havana

Indeed, but its the only way to a stop can be put to it.

Our man in Havana

Sizzler wrote:

I find it really hard to believe that you cant challenge the integrity of the equipment

I KNOW Ive seen articles in the indo in the last 2 years where cases have been thrown out. I mean how could you rely on a radar gun if its patently not working properly or has never been calibrated to a reasonable standard...

It has the makings of a good constitutional challenge if someone had the balls to take on the Gardai and McDowell.

Turner

The Gardai dont make the law.

They can only operate within the law of the land.

PowerHouseDan

Argus are now selling the Road Angel!

Pataman

Chief--- wrote:

The beam is not 1 metre wide, its pin point and invisible.

"The Laser Gun fires a harmless, narrow laser beam and computes distance using the simple change of position over time formula, rather than a radio frequency shift. While radar projects a broad, cone-shaped beam 200 to 400 feet wide, with an effective range of only a few hundred yards, the Laser Gun beam widens to just 3 feet at a range of 1000 feet in most cases. Individual vehicles can be isolated during heavy traffic due to laser's pinpoint accuracy."

source: http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/speed1.htm

Turner

Bit of a contradiction.

widens to 3 feet and pinpoint accuracy.

I dont believe it widens, laser guns can be used to measure distances against static objects. A can of coke can be pinpointed from 500m with a good telescopic sight.

Pataman

In my experience it widens. The reason I say this is I have a laser detector fitted at the top of my windscreen and it regularly picks up the signal from the gun. They may point it at the window, but i suspect they point it at the largest target which would be the front.

Turner

I suppose if they are pointing the gun from 400m+ away, by moving the gun a small amount while the laser is activated the laser would probably go from under to car to over it. If its pinpoint.

Triggering your detector.

But obviously they would have detected you first.

Sizzler

Wonder what the most common way is at getting done at the moment? Is it gatso vansfixed cameras? Or is it the aul hide behind the bush trick and jump out and flag you down?