Government New Provisional Driving Licence Plan

swingking

I heard just there on the news that the Government is planning to change the law regarding provisional licence holders

If a provisional driving licence fails his test, he can't drive till he passes his test

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

mike65

Moving to Humour!

Mike.

garthv

About time!

Pherekydes

If that takes 20% of the drivers off the roads, I'm all for it.:D

mike65

Won't the economy collapse if 400,000 drivers are not able to commute?

Mike.

prospect

It all boils down to a proper public transport system. This is the very first thing the government need to implement all over the country. If there is adequate, affordable, consistant and convenient public transport for everyone then:

1. They can remove people who fail their tests from the road, and they will have no excuses about 'needing' cars.
2. They will reduce traffic, as alot of people will use affordable convenient public transport if it is available
3. They can properly enforce the Provisional Driver must be Accompanied rule
4. Enforcement of road laws becomes easier as no of vehicles are reduced
5. Reduced drink driving
6. Less wear & tear on roads
7. As more people use public transport, low ratees are sustained by high volumes, this would also counteract loss of revenue if there is a drop in the levels of ownership of private vehicles
8. Easier national traffic & transport planning
9. Makes city centre conjestin charges a realistic option
10. Cant think of any more right now, but 10 points is a nice round number, oh yeah, More public transport = less cars = better for the enviornment.

unkel

Like in the rest of the world

Obviously it has to be phased in to give every provisional license holder one chance first at passing the test

swingking wrote:

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

Again, like in the rest of the world, with a professional instructor in a dual-control learner vehicle

Savman

Pick on us provisional drivers why don't ye :mad:

I currently drive two vehicles, both a car and a van and some of the driving by fully licensed "drivers" is shocking. Indicators, roundabouts, overtaking, I can go on. :eek:

Regardless of your views of L plate drivers, I take exception to the sterotype clueless provisional driver thank you very much.

Let he without sin....

Chris P Duck

That idea would fit perfectly into the rules of driving on a provisional licence.

First Provisional: Must drive accommpanied by a fully licensed driver
Second Provisional: Can drive alone
Third Provisional: Must drive accommpanied by a fully licensed driver
Take the driving test and fail: Banned from driving

All I reckon this will do is stop people applying for the test.

jhegarty

swingking wrote:

I heard just there on the news that the Government is planning to change the law regarding provisional licence holders

If a provisional driving licence fails his test, he can't drive till he passes his test

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

that will sort out the que... no one will ever apply for a test again...

Wolverine_1999

Savman wrote:

Pick on us provisional drivers why don't ye :mad:

I currently drive two vehicles, both a car and a van and some of the driving by fully licensed "drivers" is shocking. Indicators, roundabouts, overtaking, I can go on. :eek:

Regardless of your views of L plate drivers, I take exception to the sterotype clueless provisional driver thank you very much.

Let he without sin....

These are probably the drivers who passed in the very old driving test system, which basically passed you if you could turn the ignition in the car..

I don't understand how anybody is allowed to drive on the roads without ANY kind of driving instruction. As soon as you pass the theory test, (which basically tests whether you can read and have half a brain), you are allowed to drive on the roads and crash into the next car that comes along. I did the Hibernian ignition course and don't understand why EVERYONE in Ireland shouldn't have to do the course. It is vital to survival as well as improved driving skill on the roads.

Big Nelly

Savman wrote:

Pick on us provisional drivers why don't ye :mad:

I currently drive two vehicles, both a car and a van and some of the driving by fully licensed "drivers" is shocking. Indicators, roundabouts, overtaking, I can go on. :eek:

Regardless of your views of L plate drivers, I take exception to the sterotype clueless provisional driver thank you very much.

Let he without sin....

Are you allowed drive on that license without a full license driver? if not do you drive without a full license driver?

My view on this is, they should change the law so that if someone is caught on a provisional license without a ful license driver they should automatically be banned from having any license for up to a year. End of story. Might get some of these provisional drivers off the road and improve road safety.

Savman

Wolverine_1999 wrote:

These are probably the drivers who passed in the very old driving test system, which basically passed you if you could turn the ignition in the car..

I don't understand how anybody is allowed to drive on the roads without ANY kind of driving instruction. As soon as you pass the theory test, (which basically tests whether you can read and have half a brain), you are allowed to drive on the roads and crash into the next car that comes along. I did the Hibernian ignition course and don't understand why EVERYONE in Ireland shouldn't have to do the course. It is vital to survival as well as improved driving skill on the roads.

I actually agree. However all I was required to do was sit the Theory Test before getting my prov. If the measures currently in place are lacklustre then point the finger of blame towards govt. cos they set the rules, prov. drivers only follow them. If they bothered enforcing the rules, people like me would have to adhere and travel everywhere with full licensed driver etc etc but at the moment it's not a big deal so I can't say it worries me that much :rolleyes:

Savman

Big Nelly wrote:

Might get some of these provisional drivers off the road and improve road safety.

See, that's the typical silly argument that comes up. You could discuss driver error, speeding, dangerous overtaking or other such factors contributing to road safety. But instead you think, "ah well we'll just blame the newbies" cos obviously you're perfect in every way and god forbid it could never be you whose driving is imperfect in any way :mad:

Big Nelly

Savman wrote:

See, that's the typical silly argument that comes up. You could discuss driver error, speeding, dangerous overtaking or other such factors contributing to road safety. But instead you think, "ah well we'll just blame the newbies" cos obviously you're perfect in every way and god forbid it could never be you whose driving is imperfect in any way :mad:

Well I have a full license, never had an accident, dont have any penalty points etc. So in regards to that yes I am a good driver.

We discussed this on here numerous times, I have no problem with learner driver and having to learn etc but with a full license driver. Your atitude and its one I have seen with alot of provisional driver is, buy a car, get my provisional license and off I go driving. Hardly any lessons etc but of course your a great driver and its the fault of all the people that bothered to take lessons and get there full license.

Also in regards to the point above do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving? what to do is you hit ice etc? its great to fly around with your provisional license thinking your the world best driver but when something goes wrong this is where you notice that most provisional driver end up doing alot more damage.

Oh yeah if your such a great driver then why dont you do the test?

ninty9er

I would go so far as to say, being someone who has just passed my test 6 months ago, that there is a higher proportion of dangerous full licence holoders on our roads than provisional drivers. I think there should be a system whereby a ny driver who has a certified 7-8 lessons can drive on their own, a test is quite easy to fail on the day and does no necessarily represent the usual driving ability of the candidate

Carb

Big Nelly wrote:

Also in regards to the point above do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving? what to do is you hit ice etc?

Funny, I don't remeber any of this in my test:D

I think what's even more dangerous on the roads, is the amount of people who pass the test and suddenly think they're great drivers. (thats not aimed at you Big Nelly). The fact is the driving test is load of s**t and bears no resemblence to everday driving conditions or situations. I doubt many of the people who've been killed on our roads this year were reversing around a corner/doing a hill start, or driving in a housing estate on the outskirts of a town. I wonder how many people would fail a test for lack of prgress in a 100km/h zone. Or what would happen if you had to pass a slow moving vehicle on a rural road. At least these would be relevant to everyday situations.


Disclosure: I managed to drive for three years on a provisional licence and never had an accident/casued an accident/caught for any traffic offence. I passed my test first time last year.

RiderOnTheStorm

Big Nelly wrote:

Also in regards to the point above do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving? what to do is you hit ice etc?

thats interesting Big Nelly. I have full licence (for last 15 years) and no points, and I have hit ice once. I dont know if I would react properly. It takes pratice to become competent in any manoeuvre. Have you praticed this? in some advanced driving course on a skid pan? Dont assume that full licence holders are better than provo's, as afterall, some of the provos are driving longer than the full-licence! lol

Anyway, it has NEVER been shown that provo drivers cause (or are involved in) more accidents than the full licence holder, as the insurance companies do not give out this info.

But isnt it strange that you can fail your driving test, and then drive home! Ireland, eh?

Savman

Big Nelly wrote:

do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving?

Hard to understand the question by your use of language and as braking distance varies with road terrain but to answer you simply, in one vehicle I'm comfortable and can brake safely and in good time allowing for wet roads, the other vehicle is a van that I will freely admit not 100% comfortable driving yetbut I guess if I keep it under 80km/h, avoid tailgating and drive safely I should be ok (even with that full licensed driver beside me )

Big Nelly wrote:

what to do is you hit ice etc?

I presume you meant "if" I hit ice, in which case it's difficult to control the vehicle anyways, its happened before and it was scary stuff the first couple of time but I'm sure I'd know what to do in future. I think you may need to ask this question nationally to the thousands of other road users I see taking life threatening risks in dangerous conditions. Not me though, I like life.:D

Big Nelly wrote:

Oh yeah if your such a great driver then why dont you do the test?

Er, where did I pronounce that I am a "great driver". Read my post again ffs. Which test are you referring to? The actual Driving Test or the Ignition Test? I will admit failed my first driving test attempt last year, no big red marks against me on the test result sheet but "incorrect use of clutch" and "positioning when turning left" or something, relatively minor things I can work on for my next attempt (which incidentally I'm still waiting for, great system this is :rolleyes:). If you meant the Hibernian Ignition test, then you really have to be kidding. Why the hell would I do a test that is of no benefit to me? The mind boggles.

The point I'm making is that no prov drivers go around acting like the best drivers in the world, we know we're provisional so we're not fookin stupid. It's a learning process and in cae you forget everyone has to go thru it. What doesn't help is attitudes like yours, if its not prov drivers its foreigners or women drivers. All the bleedin excuses in the world but yet nobody accepts any kind of responsibility for the awful driving stats in this country, thats true from govt level right thru gardai and onto motorists. I've yet to see an L plate perform a crazy overtaking manoeuvre, I see other drivers doing it all the time in high spec cars you'd never actually need on an irish road. Blaming prov drivers or any one particular group is easy but also pointless, we're all equally to blame.

mike65

Big Nelly don't wind up customers!

Mike.

Big Nelly

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

thats interesting Big Nelly. I have full licence (for last 15 years) and no points, and I have hit ice once. I dont know if I would react properly. It takes pratice to become competent in any manoeuvre. Have you praticed this? in some advanced driving course on a skid pan? Dont assume that full licence holders are better than provo's, as afterall, some of the provos are driving longer than the full-licence!

I did practise this, when there was heavy snow a few years back me and my brother in cavan hoped into my old Primera and went over to a private laneway of ours. We then did a few hours of test to see how to handle the car the best way when skidding. Was good practise.

Squirrel

I'm just after coming back from my second lesson, and some people are assholes on the roads. I was doing 51 in a 50 zone, and I had a guy in a Merc C Class trying to over take, despite the fact there were plenty of cars ahead of me doing the same speed as I was. A full licence doesn't mean a good driver in real world terms.

Kinetic^

Just wondering if a time frame was mentioned on this?

Big Nelly

Squirrel wrote:

I'm just after coming back from my second lesson, and some people are assholes on the roads. I was doing 51 in a 50 zone, and I had a guy in a Merc C Class trying to over take, despite the fact there were plenty of cars ahead of me doing the same speed as I was. A full licence doesn't mean a good driver in real world terms.

You where breaking the speed limit, test is failed:p

swingking

I think a system whereby a driver can only drive on a provisional licence on their own if he/she proves that they are getting lessons.

I driver is able to drive on his/her own on their second provisional driving licence, but I have a friend who has never driven in his life and yet he is on his second provisional driving licence and can drive on his own. What is the story with that!

commited

I'd love to see Provisional drivers confined to using official driving schools only.

If people moaned about the cost, then they cant afford to drive.

jhegarty

does anyone have a source for these plans ?

Squirrel

Big Nelly wrote:

You where breaking the speed limit, test is failed:p

That's what I thought, but the instructor said better to go 51/52 instead of 48/49 because people behind would get pissed off at going slightly below. True the guy behind was getting pissed off going slightly above

Jamax

Hi,

I am from Spain and living here for 2 years and counting.

I was so surprised when I heard about all this provisional drivers system ruling here. I guess is one of the Irish things...

What should be done is get rid of this provisional licence in full. Of course the actual provisional will be valid and they will have to pass the test.

Just copy the system of any other EU country, is not so difficult. You can drive when you get your driving tests done, both theory and practice. It's insane to allow driving to people who haven't been properly taught how to do it.

In Spain you have to pass first a Theory test which is far more difficult and complex than the one here. To do that you go to the driving school for some time until you feel like passing the test or, depending on your school, your teacher thinks you are prepared enough.

Once you have passed the theory test, you start to take driving lessons with an instructor from your driving school in a dual pedals car. When your instructor recomends or when you feel comfortable enough driving, you can try and go to the practical test.

If you fail your practical test, you take more lessons and try the test again. (Here is the main failure in Ireland. In Spain you can take another test in 2 weeks time). Of course you can't drive on your own at this point.

When you finally pass your practical test, you have your driving licence. But you are in the status of 'Learner driver' which means during the first year you must show a green L in your vehicle, can't drive more than 80km/h in motorways, have the lowest limits in alcohool allowed in blood. But this is REALLY enforced by the police, not like here where the gardai seem to don't care about the provisionals breaking their limitations.


I think Ireland needs a system like this, at least to ensure the people who drive at least at some point drove properly and were taught to.

The main problem is the waiting list for the test, that's amazing!! 1 year or more to the next test. The government must hire new testers and then the list will be reduced.

This will bring some sanity to the system, reduce road accidents, stop the insurers ripoff, etc...

It's a crazy system now. You can even get an international driving licence if you are provisional, which means you can drive abroad without passing a practical driving test!!!!!

mike65

I agree.

Here's the crazy thing, the fatality rate here is no worse then in Spain so I guess that backs up what Savman and other say about learners.

On this particular announcment and why it was made now, I'm guessing Cullen is seeking to put the pressure on the Testers union. After all there is no way the system will cope unless we have a big increase in testers and they can't exactly say 'we its not our fault the waiting lists are so long' as everyone knows it is.

Mike.

halkar

Passing a test doesn't make anyone a better driver than others here. You drive for an half an hour like an old granny and if you are lukcy on the day you pass your test. You hardly ever go over 50kmh. What about 80kmh or motorway testing. How many of the drivers who past their tests ever driven on the motorways or at night? Blaming everything on the provisional drivers is easy but one should also look around and realise that there are thousands of drivers who never had to do their tests. Unless government brings the waiting list down to 2-3 weeks max, I do not see them doing anything weird like this

All the best to whom that are waiting for their tests.:)