Chaos Magick

King Mob

Anyone into it?
(Note i'm talking about the Austin Osman Spare stuff not the silly buffy the vampire slayer crap)

joseph dawton

never met anyone who was really into this although I do know one guy who is a ceremonial magician and experimented with it. It's not for the inexperienced and potentially dangerous - after all harnessing chaotic forces is not easy!

I never cease to be amazed by the foolish curiousity of people. The 'Oh these nuclear bombs look interesting, I found this idiots' guide yesterday, lets try and make one' approach usually ends in disaster and some-one getting damaged. Why is everyone in such a rush to master everything in one go?

http://www.electricpublications.com

King Mob

Au contre the chaos in the chaos magic comes form the chaotic nature of the paradigm shifts rather than a supposed power source.
again i ain't talking about buffy type stuff.

ps nuclear bombs are interesting and if i did find a idiot's guide to make one i would.

El_mariachi

why king mob what of chaos magick do you know??? other than the crap you've read in the comics......

Sapien

joseph dawton wrote:

never met anyone who was really into this although I do know one guy who is a ceremonial magician and experimented with it. It's not for the inexperienced and potentially dangerous - after all harnessing chaotic forces is not easy!

I never cease to be amazed by the foolish curiousity of people. The 'Oh these nuclear bombs look interesting, I found this idiots' guide yesterday, lets try and make one' approach usually ends in disaster and some-one getting damaged. Why is everyone in such a rush to master everything in one go?

Not a bit of it! Chaos is extremely user friendly, and can be applied at any level of experience. In fact, I would tend to propound the view that newcomers to magick should begin from a chaotic paradigm. Which is to say a minimal one.

In studying modern magick, chaos is quite difficult to avoid. Don't be put off by the scary name.

King Mob

if you're studying modern stuff i recomend grant morrison he's got an article on his site about choas magic
http://www.grantmorrison.com/mag.htm

Talliesin

King Mob wrote:

Anyone into it?
(Note i'm talking about the Austin Osman Spare stuff not the silly buffy the vampire slayer crap)

I don't recall there being much chaos magic in Buffy besides a little namedropping (Buffy varies considerably in terms of how much Whedon decides to base stuff on real magical ideas and how much he just makes up from whole cloth, so maybe there was an episode that did have some in it, I've only seen some).

I wouldn't count Austin Osman Spare as a chaote, as much as saying his work was an important influence upon Chaos magic.

I don't take to Chaos magic much, but then a lot of what it "does away with" is for me more important than the magic. Of course, just because chaos magic "does away with" the religious aspects doesn't mean a religious person can't use it (I've met a couple of Pagan chaotes and know a Gnostic Christian choate), but it hasn't held much attraction to me so far.

I do like the emphasis it places on results though - a good way to keep perspective.

King Mob

i feel the doing away with religion stuff keeps away any bad mojo connected to old gods or supernatural stuff

Nevyn

I see it the oppsite way , my gods are there to guide me and often stop me from screwing up when I am not paying enough heed to my inner voices
unless they want me to learn that lesson.

Talliesin

King Mob wrote:

i feel the doing away with religion stuff keeps away any bad mojo connected to old gods or supernatural stuff

This being a Paganism forum, there's a slight bias in favour of the old Gods

Seriously though, I do see a point in separating what is magic from what else is going on in ritual, but it's not for me.

King Mob

Talliesin wrote:

This being a Paganism forum, there's a slight bias in favour of the old Gods .

true but i ain't saying that they don't exist.

Talliesin wrote:

Seriously though, I do see a point in separating what is magic from what else is going on in ritual, but it's not for me.

the form i use doesn't completely get rid of rituals i still do banishings and junk it's more the focus used in the casting. i use sigils personally much more effecient and safe than gods. and sigils don't get pissed off with you.

Nevyn

lol.
Gods only get tend to get pissed with you for a reason, usually a good reason.

King Mob

Thaedydal wrote:

lol.
Gods only get tend to get pissed with you for a reason, usually a good reason.

aye true but they can be a handful at times as well. you know worshiping and such.
i'm also researching alternitives to human sacriface such as sacrifacing a fictional person or sacrifacing a part of a double life.

Talliesin

King Mob wrote:

i'm also researching alternitives to human sacriface such as sacrifacing a fictional person or sacrifacing a part of a double life.

How about this alternative:

Any of the power-raising methods used by magical paths in the last few centuries.

King Mob

Talliesin wrote:

How about this alternative:

Any of the power-raising methods used by magical paths in the last few centuries.

if we all had that mentality we'd be still going around in horse and cart.
tis the escense of chaos magick to learn, change and grow

Nevyn

All magical practies change and grow as the people doing them change and grow.
But really go ahead and try that if you want, I would be of the opinion you will waste a lot of engery and get very little of it back.

Talliesin

King Mob wrote:

if we all had that mentality we'd be still going around in horse and cart.
tis the escense of chaos magick to learn, change and grow

Yes, but you solving a problem that's already been solved.

If you're sacrificing for power, then sacrifice something else (there's a reason the Vodoun euphemism for human sacrifice is "white goat").

If you're sacrificing as an offering, then what else would be acceptable?

Sacrifice of fictional people isn't that much different from re-enacting a sacrifice, but without making a real killing blow (or indeed, any real blow). Not an uncommon technique (one I've used, and played the part of the sacrifice for).

solas

tallesiesin wrote:

Sacrifice of fictional people isn't that much different from re-enacting a sacrifice, but without making a real killing blow (or indeed, any real blow). Not an uncommon technique (one I've used, and played the part of the sacrifice for).

can you explain the purpose of this?
I figure in every society there's a token sacrificial lamb, (culture or nation) I'm curious as to how it serves us.

Talliesin

solas wrote:

can you explain the purpose of this?
I figure in every society there's a token sacrificial lamb, (culture or nation) I'm curious as to how it serves us.

Well, I was talking in general terms, and the general answer is "for whatever or whoever the sacrifice is meant to benefit".

The specific case I mentioned above was a re-enactment of the Barley Dream, where a man would be made to hallucinate, and then his wrists would be cut so he would "dream himself into the barley" to ensure the fertility of the fields. The re-enactment was an ecletic witchcraft ritual, which needless to say left me live and kicking.

Re-enactments of such deaths as that of the Holly King are quite common, though these are re-enactments of mythical deaths rather that of historical sacrificial deaths for the same purpose (though it's possible that at one point such re-enactments may well have been through actual killing).

King Mob

Talliesin wrote:

Yes, but you solving a problem that's already been solved.

solved? yes, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved apon.

Talliesin wrote:

If you're sacrificing for power, then sacrifice something else (there's a reason the Vodoun euphemism for human sacrifice is "white goat").

that's what i'm trying to do. i'm doing this because i refuse to sacriface anything living (animal, human whatever) and to see it this techique can provide more power.

Talliesin wrote:

Sacrifice of fictional people isn't that much different from re-enacting a sacrifice, but without making a real killing blow (or indeed, any real blow).

there is a small difference i don't intend for the fictional person to live on afterwards, making it (in one wierd sense) more real

Talliesin wrote:

Not an uncommon technique (one I've used, and played the part of the sacrifice for).

out curiousity how well did that work?

Nevyn

King Mob wrote:

that's what i'm trying to do. i'm doing this because i refuse to sacriface anything living (animal, human whatever) and to see it this techique can provide more power.

Best thing you can give is of yourself, your time, your will, your engery.

King Mob

Thaedydal wrote:

Best thing you can give is of yourself, your time, your will, your engery.

that too. still could use more power.
<insert evil laugh>

Nevyn

See this is where I would if needed if I didnt feel I had the power/juice what eever to do something I would be questioning doing it in the first place and
then I would talk to my Gods about it and enlist thier aid if it still needed to be done rather then finding away to not kill somthing.

King Mob

that's the thing i don't have gods to borrow huge amounts of power from. so an alternitive is needed. usually i use phyisical energy e.g. running throwing sigils etc. but for big stuff i'll need serious power.