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Wicknight wrote:I not sure I remember ever doing that.
You seem to assume I must be calling someone a liar because you seem to only accept there are two possibilities to a religious story, either the person is telling the true and everything happened exactly as he/she said it did, or they are lying on purpose.
What you fail to see is the third, most likely possibility, that the person believes what he thinks he/she saw, is being honest in is recounting, but is mistaken in what he thinks he say or experience.
Like a crime scene there are many versions of the incident- nevertheless, there was an incident. To refute an incident that I claim I have first-hand knowledge of, is calling me a liar - a very objectionable stance. :cool:You yourself must actually realise this since you say you have respect for other religions, but I assume you don't actually believe the stories of the Quar'an or other non-religious texts. Do you believe that the followers of a religion like Islam are purposefully lying to you about their experiences of Allah?
While it doesnt have as many versions as Chrisitanity, there are several versions of Islam. The core values of Islam are similar to the OT (obviously with some differences) and provide magnificent praise of God.
How could I dispute the fact that God sent an angel? If the 'proper' moslems worthship the God of Abraham why should I not believe them? Why should I not share their praises of Him? Worshipping God is not demonic.
Some of their teachings such as qualifying for marriage and money lending prctices are lessons for all of us in our generally satanic-influenced western world.
If I were forced, I would choose to join the pure moslem faith to worship the God of Abraham than to join the Catholic church where the people consider the Pope ('the Holy Father') to be God. How is that for controversy? But of course, despite the anti-Christs reign, I wont be forced - God is still in control of the world for His chosen people.
What I questioned in one of my previous posts was the fact that God needed to provide a second version of His guide to living. This was more aimed at Mormons because of the deviations from the Bible in their book.
Of the other religious teachings, there are excellent texts about how to treat your fellow man. These are valid - however they are not unique and do not glorify the God of Abraham. I am more interested in the holistic health practices that emanate from these.
This is a typical devious question from someone who's 'spiritual glass' does not have the Holy Spirit filling it. I can only imagine the crap that could follow by answering this question without, at least some, of God's wisdom.MOGSA the only time I remeber using the term nonsense is in response to some very illogical attempts at distorting a scientific theory to fit within a Biblic story. The logic being used was nonsense, and I stand being me saying it is nonsense.
Not true - your posts contradicting mine refer.Well for a start there are multiple independent accounts. Then there is external verifiable evidence that can be independently verified and examined.
Yes, like xrays and photographsMOGSA I've no idea what you are referring to so how you expect me to comment is beyond me. Do you just expect everyone here to have a detailed accounts of your families medical history?
I've no idea what event you are referring too. If this links back to an earlier post I apologies, I have not read it
From 2 - 3 days ago when you vigorously responded? How selective!Pity is defined by sympathy for the suffering of others. If you are the only one who thinks a person is suffering, and that person doesn't think they are suffering themselves, it is not compassion it is pity.
let the thread community comment! I repeat ... your statement was disturbing.Do you want a list of charities I donate too? How about references from my friends?
Giving money is so easy and actually is a 'feel good' thing. Real 'acts' in terms of your fellow man goes beyond helping your friends and is a measure of your humanity.
I try to only give to qualified churches who, alone IMO, have Gods' guidence on where and how that money should be spent. My gifts, on the otherhand, are used everywhere, sometimes astoundingly so, despite being fairly minor in some cases.
In my peculiar world of reality, we commit to giving 10% of our earnings as a matter of course. Then we are led by the Holy Spirit to give more (sometimes other than just money eg blankets, food, comfort even lodgings). Then we are still called on to provide the use of our 'gifts' (financial management, computer knowledge etc) to do His work.
Gods agreement with us is that all resources are His and that gifts are given to us by Him, to take away if needed. If we give Him 10% of our gains, using these resources, He will let us keep 90%. A good deal hey?
Now this is grounded in something you dispute the reality of - the Bible - and indeed, the oldest section of the Bible - Genesis 12:2; Remember to break the sentence into two parts eg I will bless you .... so that you will be a blessing - this is important as it reflects the whole basis of why worship of the God of Abraham is different to all other forms of religions.
You consider yourself moral and I have no basis to dispute that, so I ask you the question again in the expectation of an honest answer ... what is it you do for your fellow man? Not a once-off event, but continuously being mindful.All of them? Because last count over a third of the OT deals with prophecies.
http://www.bible-prophecy.com/otprophecies.htm
Well most of them can be whittled away into less than a dozen main themes for these days so why dont you specify your top ten with your comments? Of course they should address different prophecies, not multiples of the same.Can I not just say I don't think anyone can see into the future, therefore all prophecies, be they in the Bible or not, are at the most educated guess work and at the most stabs in the dark.
No, this was part of the challenge that you agreed to take and doesnt expose you more or less, if at all.I assume you mean in relation to religious teaching.
Nope! How could I ask that of a man who does not consider himself religious. The challenge was for you to describe 'respect' in terms of the real world you live in (a 'world view'), leaving out the religious aspect.
Something I could use in your part of the world, or the Glasgow
suburbs.You are entitled to your beliefs. But if you post them on an internet discussion board, especially as facts, are you surprised that this is challanged?
If you cannot stand behind your beliefs don't post them on the public internet
Why would I publish them otherwise? But it would be nice to discuss issues with fellow Christians and reach conclusion without the noise factor. Maybe we should have a third forum just for debate purposes outside of the christianity discussion issues.I don't expect you to, but I assumed it was clear from the sentence structure that I was not putting forward that postion as an acceptable post in the Christianity forum. In fact I was using it as an example of what is not an acceptable post in the Christianity forum.
Now you know that I didnt and what I believe in this area.
Please dont leave anything out in terms of the challenges.0 -
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Wicknight wrote:Again, no its not. I have no idea if you are lying or not (tbh I'm not even sure what "incident" you are refering too, I assume you mean one where God spoke to you, or entered your spirit or some such)
You are very confused.Very diplomatic there MOGSA and also not answering the question at all.
You seem to have trouble reading my sentences. I have made it very clear that the base of my belief system starts with the God of Abraham and therefore any true believers in Him are acceptable to me as a minimal standard or baseline. Outside of this baseline there cannot be any acceptance.
In one of my previous posts I used the analogy of a house and its plan. I am living in the house so to speak, while others still argue about when the house will be built or the final touches to the plan. Of course the plan reflects the house design and vice versa.Do you believe that Muslims, or Hindus or Baha'i or any of the other countless religions with different beliefs to Christianity are lying to you about their experiences that could be classified super-natural, experiences you obvious don't believe in or you woudl be a Hindu or Baha'i or Muslim
Well obviously you don't believe in it since you aren't a Muslim nor do you follow the letter of the Quar'an.
Your original statement was: Do you believe that the followers of a religion like Islam are purposefully lying to you about their experiences of Allah?
Almost everybody has supernatural experiences at some time or another, very few dont. These originate from either God or Satan. There is no conflict here.
The path I state I am following has been chosen for me - thru discussion during prayer. If God wanted me to be an x or y, I would be - there is nothing more intimidating than a personal experience with Him. That 'big finger' coming out of the clouds is far too real for my bowel control.Please quote me back some of my posts and I will try and explain what I meant
Ok you are referring to your wife being told by a doctor she would never walk again (you didn't link that to a horse riding accident before, nor did you mention your wife or even a member of your family this time. As I said I'm not a mind reader).
And my answer to you again would be that doctors don't know everything. But with no access to your wifes medical data their isn't much more I can tell you
But I linked it to the opinion of one of our country's top specialists - that had to be based on tests, xrays etc. Your top doctors would'nt comment unless they had something similar to base their comments on.
If you are going to comment, read properly as well as all of it, please.For example...?
Just take a look at any of the work undertaken by the various charities under institutions like the churches, Round Table etc. Do you know how many old people live abandoned in old-aged homes that would long for a visitor's kind touch or word, even if it is not from their family members? Or how many children, even in the UK are in hospital or homes, almost abandoned by their families?In terms of money MOGSA, not much, not much. Well I give 41% of my salary to the people of Ireland, but I'm not sure if that counts.
I find it a little funny that you judge morality based on how much money someone gives to charity.
To me morality would be based more on your beliefs and actions directly related to those beliefs. For example, in your life do you make anyone suffer? I hope I don't.
I thought that it was very clear that giving only money was a 'feel good' action in most instances and had little to do being properly involved in terms of what you do for your fellow man. This would definitely be part of your morality.
Money buys bed-pans but not kindness and meaningful communication with another soul. Just teaching an old person to use the ATM properly would alleviate stress in their lives - just think about the skills (gifts) you have.Does "all of them" not count as an answer?
You took the challenge ... this was the challenge, don't 'cop-out' just yet!
You probably dont believe this, but I do respect the intelligence placed behind your challenges and think that whatever you come up with would make good fodder for the debate.Well "respect" in a completely general sense is rather, umm, general to define in a few sentences don't you think. The term "respect" also changes depending on context. I don't respect the actions of a murdered but I respect his right to a fair trial and I respect his right to life even after he has committed murder. I don't respect the fact the Martin Luther King cheated on his wife multiple times but I respect the work he did for the civil rights movement in the the USA in the 1960s and that he knew he was being targetted for assination but continued on regardless.
You can start of with the UN Declaration of Human Rights and work from there. I respect that document, and the rights that in bestows on all humans (notice it doesn't mention "God"). For me I respect that all humans have these rights, even if I don't respect aspects of their life.
You are correct in all of this. But my adopted definition (learnt from someone else - just to clear up matters) would be something applicable and agreeable to any moral person (no, this not a snipe at you - its a generic 'you'!). What about:
"Respect is treating the person/s concerned the way you would want to be treated if you were in their shoes"
Think murderers, the poor, tramps, alcoholics or old people etc or even people that post different views to yourself. People in different circumstances to yourself - but in which you one day could find yourself such as paralysed after a vehicle accident.
Did'nt my God state that you must not punish someone stealing food?
Of course the UN doesnt mention God. When it forces you to one day worship the Sun God (Ra or whoever they call it) on a Sunday within a one-world religion, you will think they are worse than I am.It guess it would be, but then it isn't much of a challange if everyone agrees with you now is it
Its just that I need to get around a subject before the interference arrives - just to agree a baseline about something.
BTW I need to take a break from the Boards until the end of the week. Something about having to earn bucks as a mercenary software developer etc.
So dont 'zing' me to much while I am absent. Will still read, but probably not respond for next few days. Are'nt we all lucky?:D0 -
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