Can I remove myself from UCDSU?

TheVan

Since the constitution guarantees the right to associate and the corollary, to disassociate......can I be a student in UCD and remove myself from UCDSU??

Note I don't actually plan on doing this....in fact I think I'm going to run for SU rep next year but its interesting!

Would I have to continue paying my contribution?

I'm sure an SU type has an answer....Singingstranger or Vainglory??

pigeonbutler

It's an interesting question alright, and one that has been raised many times on these boards. From the point of view of someone studying law (well B&L :P) like yourself it's particularly interesting. My view would be that registering as a student of UCD makes you a member of the Union so that you do have freedom of association, by becoming a student you solicit membership. But then what do I know about the legalities of it!

The_Minister

TheVan wrote:

Note I don't actually plan on doing this....in fact I think I'm going to run for SU rep next year but its interesting!

I was thinking this too....what year and course? *Sharpens Knives*

*runs to council chamber and marks his territory on the seat. AngelofFire jumps up and runs away screaming and soaking*

TheVan

No worries Firespinner.....I'm in 3rd B&L....I know who my rivals are already!!

In response to pigeonbutlers comment....as far as I know, such a compulsion would be illegal. Like saying that if you join a company you have to join the trade union. I'm pretty sure there has to be an opt-out option!

The_Minister

TheVan wrote:

No worries Firespinner.....I'm in 3rd B&L....I know who my rivals are already!!

*puts away knife* Wait!! How do you lean? *pulls out knife again*

TheVan wrote:

In response to pigeonbutlers comment....as far as I know, such a compulsion would be illegal. Like saying that if you join a company you have to join the trade union. I'm pretty sure there has to be an opt-out option!

I think that some companies have that.

Blowfish

Being brutally honest I would probably prefer not to be a member of the SU. I am curious as to if it is posible not to be though, because for some reason it is automatically assumed that when you join UCD, that you want to be a member, when in reality it isn't actually true.

TheVan

I would describe myself as centre but I suppose I lean a little right......

I would be a pragmatic common sense kind of guy!

hullaballoo

TheVan wrote:

I would describe myself as centre but I suppose I lean a little right......

I would be a pragmatic common sense kind of guy!

You're a freaking nazi the van.

I've expressed my concern about the issue of paying the membership fee before, and I think singingstranger had said that it was impossible to discern which part of the €750-whatever goes to the SU. I countered it by saying that I only have to pay the €63.50 for the SU because the government pays the rest for me, so I could thereby not pay the €63.50 and disassociate myself from the SU.

The question arises then as to what this means in terms of what I can and cannot do. Presumably I couldn't run in the union, nor could I vote. But could I still go to the SU shop, and drink in the bars, and do everything I could otherwise do, being a member? If not, how would it be policed? Would there be a photo beside the till in all SU establishments of me, emblazoned "DO NOT SERVE"?

Blowfish

hullaballoo wrote:

The question arises then as to what this means in terms of what I can and cannot do. Presumably I couldn't run in the union, nor could I vote. But could I still go to the SU shop, and drink in the bars, and do everything I could otherwise do, being a member? If not, how would it be policed? Would there be a photo beside the till in all SU establishments of me, emblazoned "DO NOT SERVE"?

I don't see why not, I regularly see lecturers using the SU shops and bars, and they obviously aren't part of the union

Vainglory

hullaballoo wrote:

You're a freaking nazi the van.

I've expressed my concern about the issue of paying the membership fee before, and I think singingstranger had said that it was impossible to discern which part of the €750-whatever goes to the SU. I countered it by saying that I only have to pay the €63.50 for the SU because the government pays the rest for me, so I could thereby not pay the €63.50 and disassociate myself from the SU.

The question arises then as to what this means in terms of what I can and cannot do. Presumably I couldn't run in the union, nor could I vote. But could I still go to the SU shop, and drink in the bars, and do everything I could otherwise do, being a member? If not, how would it be policed? Would there be a photo beside the till in all SU establishments of me, emblazoned "DO NOT SERVE"?

The 63.50 doesn't go to the SU. It goes to pay off the Student Centre loan.

Red Alert

You can probably find out the actual amount through a freedom of information request if you're that interested.

hullaballoo

Vainglory wrote:

The 63.50 doesn't go to the SU. It goes to pay off the Student Centre loan.

Oh right, so what's the Student Centre then?

singingstranger

hullaballoo wrote:

Oh right, so what's the Student Centre then?

That'd be the large building opposite the Church and the Science block.

besty

TheVan wrote:

No worries Firespinner.....I'm in 3rd B&L....I know who my rivals are already!!

I might come out of nowhere and wipe the floor with you!

hullaballoo

singingstranger wrote:

That'd be the large building opposite the Church and the Science block.

Oh right...sarcasm. Poor. Poor.

That large building opposite the Church and the Science block, otherwise known as...

Blowfish

hullaballoo wrote:

Oh right...sarcasm. Poor. Poor.

That large building opposite the Church and the Science block, otherwise known as...

Ag!

Dave!

Can someone not set up another union and people can join that if they're dissatisfied with their current one? Surely it's a little unfair/undemocratic for all students to be compelled to join the one union because they have the monopoly of student services (the trap, shop, etc). Reminds me, and yes I will indeed invoke Godwin's Law, of the Labour Front in Nazi Germany.

I do appreciate the difficulties that may arise with regards having to be a member of the particular union in order to avail of their services, but it still seems silly to be automatically a member of a group who's policies you don't agree with -- and to have to pay for it too.

neutral

You can't be made to join a Union. And you are entitled to set up your own Union with like thinking people. Not that the college would recognise another Union.

If you just wanted to leave the SU the college might hold on to the money and instead pay it into a Sports facilities fund or something on the basis that it's a fee for services rather than a Union sub.

So you'd lose the right to vote and run for election, but that's the only effect it would have on you.

The only reason people would leave the Union then is if being a member were to invlove them being associated with an entity they could not accept being associated with.

Some people might leave the Union if it was to back the invasion of Iraq, the reintroduction of the death penalty or the legalisation of abortion, since some people would be so morally opposed to one of those stances that they could not accept being a member of an organisation that supported them.

Blowfish

neutral wrote:

The only reason people would leave the Union then is if being a member were to invlove them being associated with an entity they could not accept being associated with.

Some people might leave the Union if it was to back the invasion of Iraq, the reintroduction of the death penalty or the legalisation of abortion, since some people would be so morally opposed to one of those stances that they could not accept being a member of an organisation that supported them.

I don't quite agree with that, because you are assuming people are interested in what the union does in the first place. Personally I would be likely to leave the union, simply because I couldn't give a crap about it. That may sound harsh, but in reality i've been in UCD for 3 years, and have yet to see any difference that the union have made. I don't disagree with any of its policies at all, I just don't see them making any sort of impact on my own student life.
I also don't believe that it is just me that feels that way, our class rep's election was interesting. We didn't have a class rep for 1st or 2nd year, and got on quite happily without one. The only reason we have one this year is because our student advisor made us elect one. The current class rep didn't actually want to be one, he was only elected because none of the rest of the class wanted it, and so decided that the best way to prevent themselves from being elected was to gang up on someone, and all vote for him.

Red Alert

The shop sells stuff cheap and also prevents centra and its ilk ripping us off.

pretty*monster

Blowfish wrote:

I also don't believe that it is just me that feels that way, our class rep's election was interesting. We didn't have a class rep for 1st or 2nd year, and got on quite happily without one. The only reason we have one this year is because our student advisor made us elect one. The current class rep didn't actually want to be one, he was only elected because none of the rest of the class wanted it, and so decided that the best way to prevent themselves from being elected was to gang up on someone, and all vote for him.

That's not your union rep, that's your rep for staff student consultiation w/in your school (often confused, cos the union rep has the right to be that rep, I'm the staff/student rep for 2nd philosophy modeII for example, but not for 2nd Irish, Sociology or Itallian, even though I'm their union rep, cos I don't actually do those subjects and it'd be pointless)

The_Minister

besty wrote:

I might come out of nowhere and wipe the floor with you!

Me or him?

Blowfish

pretty*monster wrote:

That's not your union rep, that's your rep for staff student consultiation w/in your school (often confused, cos the union rep has the right to be that rep, I'm the staff/student rep for 2nd philosophy modeII for example, but not for 2nd Irish, Sociology or Itallian, even though I'm their union rep, cos I don't actually do those subjects and it'd be pointless)

Ah ok, so we don't actually have a union rep then.

pretty*monster

Well ye probably do, just not necesserily one in your class (cos of the way the constituencies are drawn... they're being redrawn for next year though to create more reps per student).

Blowfish

pretty*monster wrote:

Well ye probably do, just not necesserily one in your class (cos of the way the constituencies are drawn... they're being redrawn for next year though to create more reps per student).

Really? I've never actually heard anything about electing one other than the staff/student type one. How would I actually find out? I'd be curious as to whether or not we do.

besty

Firespinner wrote:

Me or him?

Him.
Don't worry, I'm another B&L'er

pretty*monster

Blowfish wrote:

Really? I've never actually heard anything about electing one other than the staff/student type one. How would I actually find out? I'd be curious as to whether or not we do.

PM me your class and I can tell you who it is, or you can ask Deputy Dave

singingstranger

pretty*monster wrote:

PM me your class and I can tell you who it is, or you can ask Deputy Dave

Or just post them here and I'll look up the list!...

Blowfish wrote:

Really? I've never actually heard anything about electing one other than the staff/student type one. How would I actually find out? I'd be curious as to whether or not we do.

This would sort itself out when you tell us your course. In some cases a Rep will get their form signed by ten randomers without lecture addressing the class or anything; and then if nobody else submits a form then they get a seat on Council representing their constituency without their constituents ever getting to elect them.

Moral of the story: try and get involved - if you have a Rep who's been unopposed out of sheer apathy for a couple of years, they'll have a lot to answer for if anyone ever runs against them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Student_Unionism

Have a read. It refers to Australia mainly, but still is interesting. Well, to someone like me!

Blowfish

Myth wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Student_Unionism

Have a read. It refers to Australia mainly, but still is interesting. Well, to someone like me!

Yeah it is interesting, but i'm still wondering is it actually possible here?

Oirthir

Hmmm, collect the relevant number of signatures and make an amendment to the UCDSU constitution?

Have a situation whereby members can opt-out and be reimbursed by the Union?

It'd be interesting to see the turnout for that one!

Blowfish wrote:

Yeah it is interesting, but i'm still wondering is it actually possible here?

Anything is possible