BESS Thread

Moorsy

Oh and for the poster above... Why don't you ask your class rep, they represent you at SU Council and get lots of e-mails about the goings on Im sure there informed......although I did ask my own class rep today and he was clueless..

Moorsy

Babybing wrote:

Applied finance BU3541. Whats the deal with it? Was I dreaming that you were able to do it in your final year, have they changed that? Cant find confirmation of this anywhere. Anyone know?

Well I'm not sure about that one specific course but the whole B.E.S.S area has been radically changed. Nobody has been informed yet and I for one am very disappointed at the lack of information coming from the Student Union on this. Right from the Education Officer to our Class Reps.

In my case I only found out when I heard about the changes in a by-passing conversation. First it came out that we had to do an extra subject next year, then it came out that we had no choice what-so-ever outside our field if we were doing a joint honour degree. Before we had to do five subjects, two for each subject and any one other subject up for grabs. This has all changed now, if doing a joint honour degree, you must do three of each subject.

I was really really disappointed this year, my second, as I had taken two business and two politics with one sociology and 'intro to law'. I had hoped to continue on with either one subject of sociology, but most probably law. This option is no longer available to any-one-person in my situation. It has now changed from where before, in 3rd year, you could do two subjects of each honour subject and then one other, to now doing three subjects for each honour subject with no choice.

This really pisses my of for a number of reasons firstly it means I will have to take an extra subject, secondly, I may do worse of in my exams because of this extra burden, thirdly, I can no longer continue on the law course which I took this in light of the fact that I may progress into a third year law class or even give me an insight into whether I would like to continue into law in my future.

Ah maybe its just me but basically I don’t like what the Bologna process is doing to B.E.S.S (I can’t comment on other subjects). B.E.S.S. for me was a course where, if you didn’t know what to do in life, career wise, you could enter into B.E.S.S with lots of choice and options throughout the years.
I hoped this choice would continue up the line in the four years, it has now been taken away….. Taking these extra - outside - subjects affects the quality of a B.E.S.S degree in my opinion which is seen as a varied degree which produces a student with a wide breathe of knowledge. Oh well for now….I’m going to the second hand book sale!

gilroyb

I agree with Moorsy, of my four years my favourite class was International Law in JS year. It was very useful for the politics side of my joint honours, but also just for general learning/knowledge. Seems like a bad move if international or corporate law are no longer available.

Also, I chose JS to do econometrics and economic theory because I could concentrate on the hard subjects without having many other subjects to worry about. Had I been doing six subjects I would have avoided these like the plague because the workload would have simply been too much.

Running Bing

Thats ridiculous having to do an extra course in JS tbh. The workload is already pretty steep and the jump in difficulty between JS AND sf is a lot worse than the jump between jf and sf.

Econometrics can be a killer of a subject I would hope they would somehow cut down on the workload for certain subjects if you have to do six.

Running Bing

Is the broad curriculum still going in SF?

Moorsy

Emmm I think the Broad Curriculum is being taken away. Really Hilary Allen who is in charge of all this should be able to answer you fully or Rob Kearns (Your paid official, The education officer).

I don't even know myself, as I said I only found about this two days ago and was rightly pissed. As far as I know, or at least as far as I can tell from the subject-choice sheet, everybody doing joint honours cannot do extra subjects outside their remit e.g. If you are doing Business and Politics its 3politics and 3 business. If you are doing Politics and Economics its 3 politics and 3 economics. If you are doing Sociology and Business it 3sociology and 3 business etc..,etc…etc….

Basically no choice for or variance in my degree, what B.E.S.S. in my view, is wholly based around.

The other concern I have been hearing about is a larger workload. Because of the ETA system they have to justify courses being 15 credits and most of the Business courses are only 10 at the moment so they’re going to increase the workload as well as heap another subject on!!!!!

I must say the fact that nobody was told about this is outstanding and every time I say it over and over again to myself I get more annoyed. Not that my contribution would ad to the process but that my voice was not asked to contribute or even my opinion......

Running Bing

Moorsy wrote:

Emmm I think the Broad Curriculum is being taken away. Really Hilary Allen who is in charge of all this should be able to answer you fully or Rob Kearns (Your paid official, The education officer).

I don't even know myself, as I said I only found about this two days ago and was rightly pissed. As far as I know, or at least as far as I can tell from the subject-choice sheet, everybody doing joint honours cannot do extra subjects outside their remit e.g. If you are doing Business and Politics its 3politics and 3 business. If you are doing Politics and Economics its 3 politics and 3 economics. If you are doing Sociology and Business it 3sociology and 3 business etc..,etc…etc….

Basically no choice for or variance in my degree, what B.E.S.S. in my view, is wholly based around.

The other concern I have been hearing about is a larger workload. Because of the ETA system they have to justify courses being 15 credits and most of the Business courses are only 10 at the moment so they’re going to increase the workload as well as heap another subject on!!!!!

I must say the fact that nobody was told about this is outstanding and every time I say it over and over again to myself I get more annoyed. Not that my contribution would ad to the process but that my voice was not asked to contribute or even my opinion......

Thats the trinity way. You have to rely on your sixth sense to know these things. It's not like you will be told officialy or anything what is going on. Planning and communication are definately the two week points of this college.

Moorsy

Well my big beef is that people.. i.e. student representatives knew about this a long time ago and nobody was told or asked questions about it grrr I a fairly involved person is quickly losing interest or belief in the SU at least the way it is now.

europerson

Babybing wrote:

Thats ridiculous having to do an extra course in JS tbh. The workload is already pretty steep and the jump in difficulty between JS AND sf is a lot worse than the jump between jf and sf.

I agree, but you will have it easier in SS year: we have been informed that, since we must only do four subjects next year (or three subjects and a dissertation), we shall have less work, because, in the past, students of economics had to do four courses and a general paper or a dissertation. From talking to the lecturers, they're saying we must use the extra time wisely next year.

Moorsy wrote:

The other concern I have been hearing about is a larger workload. Because of the ETA system they have to justify courses being 15 credits and most of the Business courses are only 10 at the moment so they’re going to increase the workload as well as heap another subject on!!!!!

The six courses in your JS year will each be worth ten ECTS credits, so 6x10=60. Only SS courses will be worth fifteen credits.

Generally, then, I think it's unfair to blame the SU. The ECTS is being forced on College from outside, and, speaking to some of the lecturers in the Economics Department, it has been proving very complex and difficult to agree structures in terms of credits with other departments, i.e., the Business School, the School of Maths, the Department of Sociology and the Department of Political Science, never mind thinking about inter-faculty courses like those offered to BESS students in Law, Statistics and Geography. Similar problems apply to things like MSISS and BSL too: think of all the departments involved there. It's important too to realise that this had to happen, and students have been consulted and asked for their contributions since this working group was established.

Time Magazine

europerson wrote:

I agree, but you will have it easier in SS year: we have been informed that, since we must only do four subjects next year (or three subjects and a dissertation), we shall have less work, because, in the past, students of economics had to do four courses...

On the other hand, however, English students, being the overtly verbose, misogynistic, superfluous commas that they are, however, must add as many subclauses as possible, where possible, however, to every sentence they can, in the attempt to make, what the English department consider, a highly annoying literature class, for time eternal, amen.

europerson

Ibid wrote:

On the other hand, however, English students, being the overtly verbose, misogynistic, superfluous commas that they are, however, must add as many subclauses as possible, where possible, however, to every sentence they can, in the attempt to make, what the English department consider, a highly annoying literature class, for time eternal, amen.

I think that's an irrelevant post.

Tricity Bendix

europerson wrote:

I think that's an irrelevant post.

B.ie agrees.

Danger Bob

So I had a fairly angry reply to all of this written but I said I'd do the right thing and keep this relatively brief. So:

1) Hi, I'm your Education Officer. I don't enjoy message boards and generally find it quite irritating when people post here asking why the SU or I have/haven't done something rather than actually discussing the issue with those in the SU involved. Therefore, to aid your search for information:

President
David Quinn president@tcdsu.org
Deputy President
Simon Hall deputypres@tcdsu.org
Education Officer
Robert Kearns education@tcdsu.org
Welfare Officer
Denise Keogh welfare@tcdsu.org
Entertainments Officer
Barry Murphy ents@tcdsu.org

Above are the contact e-mails for your five Sabbatical Officers. Those of you with BESS Management Committee related problems should e-mail myself (I'm the Education Officer) or your faculty convenor Hilary Allen on social@tcdsu.org. In case you haven't worked out from Boards, she's lovely so don't be scared to get out from behind your username and contact her.

2) Hilary is posting on this Board by choice, however, it is through your class reps and faculty e-mails which she should be communicating these issues. As far as I can see, she's done that to the best of her ability. Any BESS student should be highly aware that I've been kept informed by her all along and have been happy with every decision she's had to make. Think whatever you want of that. She's gotten you the best deal possible, which will help turn BESS into a course which gives you a better quality of education. From working as and with student representatives, I know that there's no one who would've done a better job on this issue than Hilary. You're lucky to have her.

3) The SU, through its reps, has worked on this issue for the last couple of years. The resulting changes are mostly positive and the negatives, other than the law issue are relatively minor. If communication on this one issue, which is related to one particular course, has been poor, it's a pity. However, it's not my job or Hilary's job to tell you about your course choices. The BESS office is a shambles, an issue I've raised for three years now. They're the root of the communication issue and not the Students' Union. I may be biased towards the SU a lot, but this time I reckon I'm right.

Finally, I would ask that posters (especially those who meet me on a regular basis) would bring any issues with their education to my attention in person or by e-mail as I'm much more likely to deal with them then than if they're posted on a board which I only see once every couple of months. That is, if you actually want them dealt with.

That e-mail address again is education@tcdsu.org. I look forward to your communication.

Black_Couch

I see that first years now HAVE to pick law or a language including Polish and Spanish.

europerson

Black_Couch wrote:

I see that first years now HAVE to pick law or a language including Polish and Spanish.

I see also that Broad Curriculum is still there in Senior Freshman year. This information is all contained in this PDF of the new course handbook.

sully-gormo

So, would I be right in saying theyve just decided to make you do one extra course in 3rd year?

Oh, and whats Eddie Hyland like? Good lecturer? It looks like ill have him next year.

gilroyb

I think the idea of an extra subject in JF is a good idea. Also as it's language based it will probably/possibly be done on small scale set classes, should help combat that big group university isolation being discussed on one of the other threads, what better way to make new friends than through Polish?

The slight issue with the new subject is it seems to lead nowhere. It says if you're going away in third year you need to do the language for both JF and SF, but the only ones that seem available in SF are French and German. As they're still an additional option, it means they'll be outside of the scholarship exams and so when people get exemptions likely to be non attended. I know personally that's where my German cert went. Not sure how that can really be fixed other than the idea that exemptions will no longer be available and schols are just taken from end of year results, but even then this would give an incentive to drop the language and focus on the subjects that count toward schols.

As mentioned by Moorsy, the introduction to law class is made fairly pointless for joint honour students, but I suppose at least there are still the options of further law classes for single honour people. I thought the standardisation might have stopped that being possible. It's a shame all the same though, because for someone studying economics and politics, International Law really fit in well (at least in my view). It's politics without the constant moral philosophising. It was all about how legal power only existed where actual power existed, so it looked at power deriving from economic might as well.

Anyway, just in case people think I'm getting at the SU or class reps, I'm not. I'm just saying that in general it's a pity this had to be done at all.

PS: Eddie Hyland is the best example of a lecturer around. Goes in, puts watch on the podium, talks without notes for 50/55 minutes on a subject that it's obvious he still finds fascinating.

Awayindahils

gilroyb wrote:

The slight issue with the new subject is it seems to lead nowhere. It says if you're going away in third year you need to do the language for both JF and SF, but the only ones that seem available in SF are French and German. As they're still an additional option, it means they'll be outside of the scholarship exams and so when people get exemptions likely to be non attended. I know personally that's where my German cert went. Not sure how that can really be fixed other than the idea that exemptions will no longer be available and schols are just taken from end of year results, but even then this would give an incentive to drop the language and focus on the subjects that count toward schols.

As far as I know all languages are going to avaible in first and second year, however they do not need to go into the calender for 2nd year till next year.

europerson

gilroyb wrote:

PS: Eddie Hyland is the best example of a lecturer around. Goes in, puts watch on the podium, talks without notes for 50/55 minutes on a subject that it's obvious he still finds fascinating.

We had hinm as a guest lecturer in first year, and he was brilliant. A fountain of knowledge.

shay_562

I'm aware that I'm asking this pretty late in the day, but since most of our resident JS BESSheads never seem to leave this place and I've got 36 more hours or so to decide, what the hell. I'm having real trouble deciding the business courses I want to take next year; I've ruled out marketing (BINT!!), but I'm kinda torn between going the HR/OB route and taking a bunch of Organisational Theory/Human Resource Management courses, or going the really serious financial route and taking a bunch of Applied Finance courses. Or I could try and juggle the two and take the main course in each and a third of my choice, but that still begs the question, which third one to take? Any opinions, advice or general bitching is appreciated, no matter how biased or subjective. And thanks in advance!

wowy

I'm going on the basis of the course that I took this year. I don't know how they're being changed for next year. Also, I'm a BBS. I dunno if yoiu are or not, but hopefully some of the following words may be wise.

HR-Scary Mary Keating readily admits that a lot of people don't like the course, but are doing it cos they pretty much left it too late to switch out. There's a horrible project that hangs over our heads for all of HT, and a lot of TT also. Also, a lot of the theory is just very, very boring. It's not a very fun course.

OTC-This is a great course. It's done in 2 sections. MT is with Gemma Donnelly-Cox, who is an absolute legend! This is the Organisation Theory section, and it's quite interesting, and there's a very good project in it. She also marks very nicely! The 2nd section is taught by David Coghlan, and it's also quite good. The theory in this section is a bit more "practical", for want of a better word, than the OT section, in that it can be seen to be applied a lot more easily than the first section theroy.

With regard to the markings in these two course, you'll be going into the final exam in June with approx 50% already done over the course of the year, which is quite good.

Finance courses-I only do accounting, and well, Pat McCabe is quite simply a legend! This acc course is a lot better and less boring than the 2nd year one. I'd recommend it. I dunno about Applied Finance. I was going to save it for next year seeing as that option was available, but now they've taken that away, so I'm very annoyed about that. Sigh.

Pet

Kinda irrelevant, but shay, I respect you enough to inform you that to "beg the question" is incorrect in the context of your third-from-last sentence.

*retreats from the forbidden territory of the BESS thread*

shay_562

Wowy, thanks a lot - accounting being more interesting that 2nd year would definitely be a plus.

Pet wrote:

Kinda irrelevant, but shay, I respect you enough to inform you that to "beg the question" is incorrect in the context of your third-from-last sentence.

How embarrassing! Thanks for the heads-up Pet - it'd be cheating to change it this time, but I'll avoid it in future.

(Damn, you're never safe from poor grammar)

mizz.yelof!!!

shay you beat me to it,, i was just coming on to ask advice on the exact same topic.

question, does pat mc cabe take JS finance, or just sf and ss?

europerson

You all may wait for original_psycho to post, because Ibid, b.ie and I don't take any JS Business courses.

BessBoy

mizz.yelof!!! wrote:

shay you beat me to it,, i was just coming on to ask advice on the exact same topic.

question, does pat mc cabe take JS finance, or just sf and ss?

mccabe takes js accounting, lucey the applied finance course.

Moorsy

Financial and Management Accounting
Applied Finance
Human Resources

International Political Theory
Irish Politics
US Politics and Government

Not sure about Human resources vs Organisation Change
Also not sure if US politics or research methods.

Pissed about having to do an extra subject, its going to make next year sooo much harder. Also if anybody wants to do law next year and is having trouble getting information on it I have been in contact with PJ Drury (Head of BESS) and he said he's working on it and for the moment just fill out your forms as such and he'll keep me updated. I'll post here as he does or you can e-mail him yourself to make sure he doesn't forget. "P.J. Drudy" pdrudy@tcd.ie

Bartronilic

I've narrowed my choices down and now deciding which to pick out of App finance or Inv analysis. Which is better? Doing acc, ops man, IT, Org theory and morkeshing.

I want to do Transport economics in 4th year (meaning i'd have to switch to BA), i wish i did economy environment and space this year so i dont want to make a wrong choice again.

For the rest of my life I want to be self employed opening my own shop/s or whatever because 9-5 is soul sucking.

Oh the point of this post is App finance or Inv analysis!? And am i doomed to communter traffic, water coolers and dealing with mary from accounts for the rest of my life!?

europerson

For next year (SS), I've chosen:
4.01 Economic Theory
4.04 Economics of Food Markets
4.05 Economics of Securities Markets
4.10 International Economics

If 4.04 turns out to be dodgy, I'll probably take Transport, or perhaps Competition Policy or Monetary. It has been so difficult to make the choices: I want to do a bit of everything!

mizz.yelof!!!

3650 government and politics of the usa vs 3660 european public policy

argh which to choose, really dont no