BESS Thread

europerson

Black_Couch wrote:

Does anybody know what an LLB is or something like it? I heard u can do an extra year and end up with a law degree after you get your original ba or bbs etc., surely this can't be true? Considering people spend a full 4 years studying to get a law degree.

I never heard of this. I suppose if you did exceptionally well in the Law components of BESS, you might be considered for admission to an LL.M., but it seems unlikely, given how little Law is in BESS.

europerson

By the way, Black_Couch, an LL.B. is a Bachelor of Laws degree.

BessBoy

Any advice on ss finance would be welcome. please

Black_Couch

europerson wrote:

I never heard of this. I suppose if you did exceptionally well in the Law components of BESS, you might be considered for admission to an LL.M., but it seems unlikely, given how little Law is in BESS.

Yeah sounds to good to be true really.

gilroyb

Black_Couch wrote:

Does anybody know what an LLB is or something like it? I heard u can do an extra year and end up with a law degree after you get your original ba or bbs etc., surely this can't be true? Considering people spend a full 4 years studying to get a law degree.

I presume that it's the conversion course in DIT rather than a course within Trinity. It's available to all who have received a(n honours) degree I think. Remember though, a law degree doesn't get you to the bar or qualify one as a solicitor.

Thirdfox

Exactly all law degree people get is one year less in King's Inns (I'm not sure about Blackhall Place) - and that's only if we take the right subjects and get good enough results in them!

Most judges I heard of all had English/History degrees coming into law courses...

mizz.yelof!!!

Bartronilic wrote:

Any help for Political science end of year exam, the notes are confusing. So many terms that can't be found in the notes and can be found in the questions.

political science is actually pretty straight forward when you actually sit down to do it. ok so if the notes scare you then dont look, get out the haywood book and read the relevent chapters for the eassy titles, take ideas from these cahpters for your essay . also a big plus for jac and politics is that you give your own opinion for everything, she loves it. also you cant really be minused marks for what you yourself think so happy days,





and in other news, ECONOMICS, i mean WTF!!! i havnt a dogs notionc whats going on there at alll! :eek: its just so scary, every time i take out the book even the friggin orangness of the book scares me!
so ok advice guys, if i pass (reletively weel, as in aiming for the 2.2 type area) in my other 4 subjects and actually fail economics exam, is it true that they sometimes pass you anyway and you dont have to do repeats in september???
like i is uber screwed for econ, i failed both my michealmas and hilary term tests, i just dont get the whole economics thing at all it doesnt work for me.

help le do thoil anyone????

BessBoy

If you fail economics, thats not a disaster. you need, i think, to get an average of a 2.2, not fail anything else. That way you can pass still.

Black_Couch

gilroyb wrote:

I presume that it's the conversion course in DIT rather than a course within Trinity. It's available to all who have received a(n honours) degree I think. Remember though, a law degree doesn't get you to the bar or qualify one as a solicitor.

NO he was actually adamant it was an LLB from Trinity. Hes in for a surprise in 3 years time so when he goes to try and do it.

Black_Couch

mizz.yelof!!! wrote:

and in other news, ECONOMICS, i mean WTF!!! i havnt a dogs notionc whats going on there at alll! :eek: its just so scary, every time i take out the book even the friggin orangness of the book scares me!
so ok advice guys, if i pass (reletively weel, as in aiming for the 2.2 type area) in my other 4 subjects and actually fail economics exam, is it true that they sometimes pass you anyway and you dont have to do repeats in september???
like i is uber screwed for econ, i failed both my michealmas and hilary term tests, i just dont get the whole economics thing at all it doesnt work for me.

help le do thoil anyone????

well if u failed both term tests and have done no study at this stage ur probably ****ed. Your probably going to be doing repeats but at least u won't be missing out on a holiday if u fail like some people :mad:

Just go through the chapters. THe online notes that come with www.coursecompass.com are helpful if you are stuck. Just study it on the thursday evening and friday aswel. U have time for that. And if your really sorted for politics just study economics the day before that too.

Use sommervilles notes aswel. BUt u kind of have to know the book to understand what hes talking about in his notes as they are fairly condensed.

pollytcd

Yikes... nearly finished... just two left... How ye guys getting on.

Know what ya mean by Economics... yikes massive.
Any more tips...

And...
What the story on schols are they changing it?

Changing it?

Thirdfox

Moving the system to end of second year results is what I think pollytcd meant.

I heard it was still in consultation stage... hopefully the system won't change.

Ah. No, no decisions have been made yet.

BessBoy

Why would it be so bad? sure the pomp and circumstance is nice to see, but whatever.

Thirdfox

Well I think that to move it into the "no-one needs to apply" category really cheapens the whole thing. The specialness of having to commit yourself to the extra work seems... well rather special

But I do see the pragmatic argument - less work for lecturers, also less stress for students.

The argument being put forward is that the best students aren't getting Schols, that some students get 70 - 80% in the SF annual exams but never go for Schols.

It could be seen that having them at the end of the year could make more students do them, or less.

Thirdfox

Less? How so? Would the "schols" exam be consumed and replaced with just the end of year exam in 2nd year? (For law students we need to do the 4 subjects from 2nd year and 1 from 1st year, is this similar to other subjects?) And what about the 3rd years (and 1st years for that matter )? Do they lose the chance to do schols?

Pet

Myth wrote:

The argument being put forward is that the best students aren't getting Schols, that some students get 70 - 80% in the SF annual exams but never go for Schols.

It could be seen that having them at the end of the year could make more students do them, or less.

The way I see it, a lot of rich students, or students from Dublin, wouldn't really need the scholarship because their parents will pay for their accommodation and whatever, whereas students with less money will push themselves to get schols for all the financial benefits.
But if the schols exams are based on end-of-year results, then a lot of these rich/Dublin students (who wouldn't have to work part time during the year or travel up and down from the country every weekend, and hence would have more free time to study) will get it anyways, even though they don't really need or want it. Which I think is silly and unfair.

Do you think it will be changed for the 2006/2007 year, Dónal?

Awayindahils

Pet wrote:

The way I see it, a lot of rich students, or students from Dublin, wouldn't really need the scholarship because their parents will pay for their accommodation and whatever, whereas students with less money will push themselves to get schols for all the financial benefits.
But if the schols exams are based on end-of-year results, then a lot of these rich/Dublin students (who wouldn't have to work part time during the year or travel up and down from the country every weekend, and hence would have more free time to study) will get it anyways, even though they don't really need or want it. Which I think is silly and unfair.

Do you think it will be changed for the 2006/2007 year, Dónal?

Pet what are you on about. yeah there are a couple of rich students, there are always going to be some. But as for Dublin students who don't have to work during the year, what the hell are you on? I know you live in halls so you mainly only see non-dublin people but most dublin people i know have a part time job.

I'm still going for schols next year despite living in Dublin no matter what time of the year its at.

And there is no garuntee that people who live at home will get it over those who live in halls, or those who don't work will get it over those who do. I've heard decent arguments for and against the changing of schols but that is just pathetic.

Crash

Its not a fricking grant pet. what do you want, schols to be means tested?

Pet

Thank you, I know it's not a grant, and I'm aware it's more than just a financial benefit. But that's still a big part of it.

I'm still going for schols next year despite living in Dublin no matter what time of the year its at.

If it was between you and student X from the country (ie you both got the same marks), I'd rather see student X get schols. You can easily commute from home, a student from the country can't.

But as for Dublin students who don't have to work during the year, what the hell are you on? I know you live in halls so you mainly only see non-dublin people but most dublin people i know have a part time job.

I didn't say that, you misunderstand.
Rich students: will get their accommodation paid for and won't have to work during the year, hence will have more free time to study.
Dublin students: can live at home and don't need accommodation; also don't have to waste time at weekends travelling long distances, probably don't have to spend time doing various tasks like shopping, cooking, cleaning etc, and hence have more free time to study.

And it's not a pathetic argument; it may not be a great one but it holds weight. The way things are at the moment, with a separate schols exam for those who are determined to do it, is the best imho.

Crash

Lets actually just have country people quotas for schols, that'll sort it out best.

Pet

Or, let's just leave things the way they are, because that seems to work just fine for all concerned??

shay_562

But if the schols exams are based on end-of-year results, then a lot of these rich/Dublin students (who wouldn't have to work part time during the year or travel up and down from the country every weekend, and hence would have more free time to study) will get it anyways, even though they don't really need or want it.

So...Dublin people automatically do better in exams...because they're from Dublin? I'm deeply confused, but meh.

The argument being put forward is that the best students aren't getting Schols, that some students get 70 - 80% in the SF annual exams but never go for Schols.

Just as a question - from what I've heard, they tend to mark Schols with a clear idea in mind of how many people in the year can be awarded firsts, and mark people down if the class on average is doing too well. So given that that number is pretty small (ie, 4 from BESS, a class of nearly 200), if they're scaling down the entire class' grades to make sure too many don't get it, doesn't that mean that people will be doing worse on their end of year exams as a result? Given that, ordinarily, more than 0.2% of people would get a first. I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this right, but it's something that strikes me as odd.

I kinda like the fact that Schols is a seperate exam; from a purely selfish perspective, it narrows the field somewhat, but from a more altruistic viewpoint, it means that the people who get Schols aren't just the ones who do well in exams, they're the ones who do well in exams and are willing to sit extra exams at an awkward time for potentially no reward at all. I'd rather see the scholarships going to someone who might be a percentage point or two lower in an end of year exam, but who's motivated enough to actually work for and follow through on Schols (given that, from what I've seen, lots of people sign up but don't sit them) rather than just turning up in June and hoping for the best. Oh, and going back to the selfish thing, it would also mean an end to exemptions, which means no 6-month summer vacation as a consolation prize. Which is a bad thing.

Pet

So...Dublin people automatically do better in exams...because they're from Dublin? I'm deeply confused, but meh.

...

No. They probably have more free time in which to study, however. Please go back and read post 116.

Cuckoo made a post a few months ago about why some people are hacks and some people don't get involved in college at all, and she mentioned a few different types of Trinity student (I can't get it as searching is disabled)..

One of these types of students was the "living away from home, surviving by themself" type of student, who works long hours to pay for rent, food etc, in addition to going to college and studying in the evenings. This type of student would not be able to compete with the aforementioned rich/Dublin types, who will have much more free time to study for summer exams. It just seems that this proposed new system of schols will disenfranchise the really hard-working students who really need (and tend to go for) the benefits that a scholarship brings, and work hard right from the start to get in there at Easter with the select few who care enough to give up their Easter holidays to sit the exams.

I can't make myself any clearer than that.

shay_562

No. They MAY however have more free time in which to study. Please go back and read post 116.

But equally, I'm sure there are rich country students who don't have to spend time working and poor Dublin students who do, so making blanket assumptions that the people in Dublin have it easier is somewhere between misguided and insulting. And post 116...that'd be the one you edited after I made my last post, yes?

Pet

I'm sure there are rich country students who don't have to spend time working

Yes. They come under "rich students".

so making blanket assumptions that the people in Dublin have it easier

If you:

-are from Dublin
-are within reasonable commuting distance from college
-live at home with parents,

then YES, you WILL have it easier than students who live by themselves in rented accommodation, doing their own cooking, shopping, laundy, etc etc. You will have more free time because your parents will do your shopping, laundry etc, you WON'T have to work to pay for your food, you'll save time and money every day..

(And by the way, this entire view is not influenced by my own personal circumstances, I'm lucky enough that my dad supports me financially and I have no complaints there. This is concern based on other people I know.)

gilroyb

Schol is to ensure that the best students who attend Trinity get the best opportunities available. It is intended to be entirely meritocratic.

Many country students are living in Dublin city centre, while those Dublin students who live at home have a 1 or 2 hour a day round trip commute.

By making Schol part of the end of year exam it helps ensure that Trinity gives to those who have the greatest talent. If someone can put in absolutely no effort and still get a first, that person is still an ideal target for schol from Trinity's point of view.

I know a number of people who got a first in their end of year exams in 2nd year but who were too unsure of themselves to go for Schol.

I'd be a bit careful about saying that the current system is good while the end of year system would be bad, seeing as medicine scholars at the moment are selected based almost entirely on exams which make up their end of year results.

Thirdfox

Thirdfox wrote:

Less? How so? Would the "schols" exam be consumed and replaced with just the end of year exam in 2nd year? (For law students we need to do the 4 subjects from 2nd year and 1 from 1st year, is this similar to other subjects?) And what about the 3rd years (and 1st years for that matter )? Do they lose the chance to do schols?

Someone being discussed is the possibility of having extra exams on top of the normal end of year exams in order to compete for Schols, so that you would show your intellectual might for the 'normal' annual exams, and then in the other ones as well.

Would have made more sense if I had included that in my post

And for the JS'ers, it was mentioned how it would be for SF only. But that was what I heard some time ago, I'm sure David Rickard reads boards and will contribute accordingly. *waves*