NRAI F-class International At MNSCI ranges

Sparks

From the NRAI website:

INTERNATIONAL F-CLASS MATCH, 28, 29 AND 30 APRIL 2006

VENUE;Midlands National Shooting Centre of Ireland.

Day one; Pratice on all distances.
Day two: individual competition
Day three: Team event, Republic of Ireland-v-Scotland-v-England.
Coarse of fire: 2+15 on 300 and 500 yards.
2+20 on 600 yards.
Targets: Half minute of angle v bull.

More information to follow

You must have a valid visitor permit to travel to the Republic of Ireland, a European Firearms Pass, on its own, it is not sufficient.Application to use firearms in the Republic of Ireland. Must be accompanied by a valid Euro Pass.

Download Application Form

boudica

NRAI F-CLASS LEAGUE

The next part of the f-class league continues on sunday the 26 march 2006 @ 10.30am sharp.
VENUE;MNSCI ranges, leabeg, blueball, tullamore, co. ofally.
DISTANCES; 300,500,AND 600.
ROUNDS TO BE FIRED; 2+10 on each distance
V-BULLS; THESE HAVE BEEN CHANGE TO 3/4 MINUTE OF ANGLE, THIS WILL ALLOW ALL COMPETITORS GET SOME PRACTICE FOR THE UPCOMING F-CLASS INTERNATIONAL.
RANGE FEES; 20 euro members, 45 non members.
To book your place phone 0506 54643 by sunday 19 march 2006.
To find out more on all the above go to www.nrai.ie.

The 12 of march match which was posponed has been put back to a date yet to be announced.

NRAI F-class Match Posponed

Due To Delayed Development Works On The Firing Points On MNSCI Ranges For The Forth Coming International, Tomorrows F-class Match For 26 March 2006 Is Posponed.

The Committee Of The NRAI Apologise For Any Inconvience Caused.

edit: Moved back to Upcoming Competitions until a date is announced -Sparks

NRAI F-CLASS LEAGUE

THE NRAI F-class league continues after the major ground works on the MNSCI 600 YARDS range. now known as the WIND MILL range.

This work was hampered by very bad weather in recent weeks but credit must be given to all those members who on days off and on evenings helped in the construction of what is now and always has been Irelands premier fulbore rifle range.

The 300,400,500 and 600 yards firing points are all covered in carpet grass, each firing point caters for up to 50 long range rifle shooters at a time. It is planed to increase this in the coming year.

The ground between the firing points is now cleared and level and will by the end of this year be covered in grass. Wind flags are to be installed this week.
Well done the MNSCI AND THE NRAI ON HAVING THE VISION TO CREATE SUCH A BRILLIANT PLACE TO SHOOT LONG RANGE.

F-CLASS LEAGUE CONTINUES ON THE SUNDAY 9 APRIL 2006 @10.30am sharp
THE FORMAT IS AS USUAL.
VENUE; MNSCI RANGES, LEABEG, BLUEBALL, TULLAMORE, CO OFALLY.
300, 500 AND 600 YARDS 2+10 ON EACH DISTANCE.
V-BULLS ARE 3/4 MIN OF ANGLE.
FEES; 20 EURO MEMBERS 45 EUROP NON MEMBERS.
TO BOOK YOUR PLACE 0506 54643
TO FIND OUT MORE GO TO www.nrai.ie

THE POSPONED MATCHES WILL BE ARRANGE FOR AFTER THE F-CLASS INTERNATIONAL ON THE 28,29 AND 30 APRIL

boudica

The First F-class International In The Republic Of Ireland Is Being Competed For This Weekend At The MNSCI Ranges.
The Top F-class Shooters From Scotland, England And Ireland Will Be Competing For The NRAI F-class International Sheild.

If You Feel Like Coming Along To Suport Your Team You Will Be Most Welcome.
THIS EVENT IS UNDER INTERNATIONAL CONFEDERATION OF FULBORE RIFLE ASSOCIATION ( I.C.F.R.A.) RULES

boudica

Anyone Going To The International At The Mnsci Ranges Over The Weekend

b52

I went to the MNSCI on Saturday and had to go back on Sunday. I would like to say it was weekend of shooting that should not have been missed.the standered of shooting on display was second to none from all three nations;I now know what direction i want to take in shooting.The lads on the MNSCI SHOULD BE VERY PROUD of what they have done this weekend and for shooting sports in this country.A job well done lads Thank you.

BOBTHESHOOTER

Great report, if very brief, can you let me know who were the three nations that participated in the shoot, the total number of participants, how one qualified for the "Irish Team". Do you really think that shooting sports in this country have benefited significantly as a result of this isolated competition?

Sparks

Bob,
I've moved the original posts from the Upcoming Competitions (and then the This Weekend's Events) threads to here; they seem to answer your query, bar the last one, which seems better suited to this thread.
If you could take that segment of the discussion to there, we (by which I mean the mods) would appreciate it.

Oh, and please note that the points in this post are still valid and the rules still enforced.

BOBTHESHOOTER

Sparks! Where are the answers to my questions? They are not unreasonable, I see no reports of the shoot on their web site and it really annoys me when you get reports from individuals like b52 describing someting which the shoot was not!

If B52 makes statements such as he did then it is not unreasonable to ask them substantiated, you yourself demand answers to your questoins and why should others not, it is not fair to refer these reasonable questions to rules related to trawling, the questions are fair and reasonable:

Who were the three Nations who participated?
How many participated in the international?
How does one qualify for the Irish Team that participated?
How does what has been done this weekend contribute to shooting sports in Ireland?

Hardly trawling, just asking straight questions?

Sparks

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

Sparks! Where are the answers to my questions?

Bob, I'm not a fullbore shooter, I wasn't at the shoot, and I'm not in either the NRAI, the MNSCI or the LRRAI. I just posted that because I was delayed in processing the weekend events posts this week, and some of your questions were answered in it - for example, the three nations would appear to have been the ROI, Scotland and England.

I see no reports of the shoot on their web site

Er, it's here. It's a link from the main menu on their home page.

it is not fair to refer these reasonable questions to rules related to trawling

That referral was for your last questions - which were being discussed in the NRAI/LRRAI thread I linked to; but because that thread got heated in the past, I pointed out the ground rules for the thread and why they were put there, just to forestall any more unnecessary heat. I'm not saying that you shouldn't ask the questions, nor that answers shouldn't be given; I'm just trying hard to stop it going to a rather silly name-calling session like it did once before in that thread (if you reread the first few pages, you'll see what I mean).

To be clear on your questions:

Who were the three Nations who participated?
How many participated in the international?

These do belong in this thread, but these:

How does one qualify for the Irish Team that participated?
How does what has been done this weekend contribute to shooting sports in Ireland?

are more pertinent in the other thread.

Hardly trawling, just asking straight questions?

And I'm not censoring, just trying to keep stuff in the right place.

Liam Good

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

Sparks! Where are the answers to my questions? They are not unreasonable, I see no reports of the shoot on their web site and it really annoys me when you get reports from individuals like b52 describing someting which the shoot was not!

If B52 makes statements such as he did then it is not unreasonable to ask them substantiated, you yourself demand answers to your questoins and why should others not, it is not fair to refer these reasonable questions to rules related to trawling, the questions are fair and reasonable:

Who were the three Nations who participated?
How many participated in the international?
How does one qualify for the Irish Team that participated?
How does what has been done this weekend contribute to shooting sports in Ireland?

Participants were Ireland,Scotland, England
Approximately 32 in total for the individual competition on Saturday.( Six 4 person teams on Sunday, I think)
Scotland won,England second and Ireland B team third, Ireland A team fourth.
By competing in the F-Class League in MNSCI, open to MNSCI members,Affiliated clubs.
Don't know.


I was only there as a spectator.

BOBTHESHOOTER

Mr Good

Thank you for your answers, that is all I was asking, who is yer man sparks, seems to be hell of a picky person, if he is not a fullbore shooter whats he doing sticking his nose in and confusin everyone, me in particular!

In any case must visit this range in Tullamore some day and see what it is all about, do you have to be a member there to get on the team! Anyone I ask seems not to know and there are not many clubs that know much about them?

Sparks

Cheers for that Bob. Everyone knows who I am. They may not be fully familiar with yourself or Mr. Good however. And as you can see from the thread I referenced, I was drawn into this because I was witness to some of the events involved.

skellig

Well there is no doubt about it ,what a great weekend of fullbore shooting.
At long last its happening in the R.O.I ,long may it last.


I spoke to some of the visiting shooters that have shot all over the world and they expressed to me their belief that it was one of the best ranges they have shot on.

The Midlands have proved it can be done with dedication and the determination to suceed ,so come on lads with our other ranges around the country lets all get into gear and set them to the standards of the Midlands and strengthen our sport of fullbore shooting.

springer

First of all I have to say well done to all involved it was a weekend to remember thats for sure.

On Friday --26 people practiced
On Saturday--34 competed in the individual
On Sunday-- 8x4 man teams competed

One team from England , 3 from Scotland and 4 from R.O.I an absolute credit to all involved.--well done!
The R.O.I b team did beat the a team.
In the individual Scotland took first and second and R.O.I took third place.

Twenty four of us worked in the butts to man the targets that I must say worked a dream. Its very impressive working there and listening to the crack of the bullets ripping through the targets and consistently striking the same spot in the backstop.

The crack with the lads also what a howl the slagging and jokes that went on were brilliant and moral was always high. Although I really would have liked to see the competitors shooting I did note a lot of camera work going on down in the butts and I believe also on the firing line so i am hoping I will get a complimentery D.V.D (hint,hint Midlands:) )

Im sure there are dozens to thank for this event. without a doubt there is one person in particular who gets a warm hearted thanks from me and thats the Chef who fed us all over the three days with a delicous hot lunch and refreshments compliments of the M.N.S.C.I --cheers and thanks

b52

BOBTHESHOOTER;
My last post was my views and not a report on what a great weekend of shooting.I seen some great shooters enjoying their sport in a great setting and a great range.You i see from your post have not even been there yet and you seem to have formed a very negitive opinion on something you have not seen working and if you enjoy this sport so much why were you not there to see for yourself and then form your opinion

BOBTHESHOOTER

Well ta great that there has been a GOOD turnout!

civdef

If I were a betting man I'd wager BOB has a bit of a chip on his/her shoulder.....

Leupold

The two issues at the heart of this debate are the "openess" of competitions run on the MNSCI ranges and the accessability of the range for shooters in general. The owners and users of the MNSCI have done a superb job in developing the facility. The range is top class and should be seen as a national asset. Many long term shooters provided help and advice during the development phase and initially used the ranges for practice and to take part in the open competitions which were run on the range,e.g. The "Bord Na Mona Marksman of the year ". No one is denying the right of the owners of the ranges to make money and get a return on their investment but it seems that this latter consideration has influenced their operating practices to the point that many of the original supporters can or will no longer go there. My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that you can only shoot full bore on the range under the following conditions:
1. You are a member of the MNSCI.
2. You are a member of a club affiliated to the MNSCI
3. You are an invited guest of a member of MNSCI.
Affiliation for clubs costs their members much the same as joining the MNSCI so, in summary, unlike most other clubs in this country, there are no truly "open" shoots at the MNSCI. Complicating matters is the setting up of the NRAI. This organisation(which shares much of it's management with the MNSCI) only runs it's Irish competitions at the MNSCI. Therefore the restrictions on openess apply. The conclusion can only be that restricting access, for commercial or whatever reasons, implies that any competitions are not truly open and any team selected using these competitions cannot therefore be a national Irish team . I urge the owners and members of the MNSCI to reconsider their policies in this area and open the range up to all sensible and safe fullbore shooters.The MNSCI will definitely see benefit from this in the short and long terms.

Sparks

Leupold, I'm somewhat puzzled by this - I've shot in the MNSCI range for NTSA shoots and this "You must be in the MNSCI" policy never came up, was never mentioned, in fact was never even hinted at.

(And I'd point out that even if you had to be an MNSCI member, that doesn't necessarily take away the shoot's "open" status as anyone can join the MNSCI if I understand you, it just drives up the entry fee; contrast that with the air pistol shoots held on Army ranges down here in the late 80s - now those didn't qualify as "open" shoots!)

Leupold

If you go back over the previous discussions Sparks, you will see that some posters, apparently representing the MNSCI, have explained their membership policy in the terms I quoted. You are right is saying that anyone could join the MNSCI but that is the very point of their policy, to increase the revenue from memberships. I do not know of any other clubs which make you join in order to shoot in an open shoot, They do allow some organisations to hold shoots on their range, e.g. the Deer Society, but commercial considerations will apply.They also allow reasonably open access for .22 shooting. It is just full bore shooting where the problem has developed.

Sparks

Ah, right. That'd explain it so Leupold. It does sound like an anomoly if you have to join for a fullbore competition (though it makes perfect sense to have to join if you shoot there outside of competition).

civdef

When fullbore facilities were first provided at MRC, they were open to non-members, but as I understand it, high levels of messing such as deliberately shooting at target holders meant it was getting expensive, so it was restricted to members.

At the end of the day a range costs money to run, and the owners are entitled to charge what they want, and admit who they want. The commercial reality of it seems to be that there are no shortage of people willing to join the MNSCI to shoot fullbore there, so there's probably little incentive to have regular shooting open to non-members.

That said, the item at the top of this thread regarding the F-Class league includes the following:

"RANGE FEES; 20 euro members, 45 non members".

On the point of NRAI shoots only being held at MNSCI, I'm not sure there's anywhere else suitable in any case.

Sparks

That said, the item at the top of this thread regarding the F-Class league includes the following:
"RANGE FEES; 20 euro members, 45 non members".

Well, the difference is a bit more, but you do see the same thing in ISSF matches so I guess that's why it wouldn't strike me as being all that odd.

Leupold

civdef wrote:

"RANGE FEES; 20 euro members, 45 non members".

You are right about the "f Class" league. But does the difference in costs above not strike you as excessive? If we stay on the "right to charge" theme you should also remember that we are talking about marginal costs and good profits here. Shooting slots are a bit like aeroplane seats. It costs much the same to run the plane whether it is full or not. If they could get more shooters to attend then they would get more money at little extra cost(paper targets). If the "National Shooting Center of Ireland" really wants to justify the name then it's policies have to be more inclusive.

civdef

Members of course are also contributing at least a couple of hundred quid a year in membership dues to the club, so if the prices for members and non-members were the same, the members would be subsidising non-members, which as a member myself, wouldn't seem all that great!

Your "Ryanair" argument is a sensible one, the issue depends on whether the lower range fees would bring in enough extra people to offset the loss in revenue. I'm not sure it would be.

I don't know about the "marginal costs / good profits" bit either, I have no idea what the club finances are like - I'm the sort of club member who prefers shooting to bookkeeping.

Sparks

Sorry Leupold, but that doesn't really hold water. Those range fees aren't that high; compare them with the entry fees for a shotgun match for example, or the ammo cost for shooting the match. And while they could use a different policy for charging, they'd be the first range in Ireland to do so, so it's a bit much to say it's expected of them!

Leupold

Right then, we are all agreed that the MNSCI is a commercial business and should be judged as such. Why then is the "National" tag used in the title of the range and in the title of the NRAI as we have now established that commercial, not national interests dictate the membership policies and competition entry rules run by the NRAI at the MNSCI?

civdef

Eh, no. I've never bothered looking tbh, but I'm fairly sure the club isn't a profit making organisation, any revenue is put back into the club (I'm open to correction though). Commercial realities still apply in the running of it though. It has to be run in a financially sound manner.

Considering it has memebers from all over the country, why shouldn't national be used in the title?

Sparks

Firstly Leupold, you haven't shown that the MNSCI is the same as the NRAI. There might be people on the management of both; but there are people on the managment of both the NTSA and DRC (for example) and those two are seperate bodies.

Secondly, you've not shown that commercial interests dictate membership or competition entry rules for the NRAI, just the entry fees for NRAI competitions, and frankly I'd be worried if commercial interests didn't have something to do with where you set entry fee levels, as you couldn't break even otherwise.

As to the use of the "National" tag, it's a bit off, but it does have a claim as it's the largest fullbore range in the republic and apparently the only long-range one; but again, you're confusing the NRAI and MNSCI without showing they're the same entity.

springer

Whatever the case may be I know Im getting value for money for my sport on the M.N.S.C.I
I imagine its similar elsewhere (ie) you pay range fees and membership,how else could they function or even improve and keep their ranges. I dont mind paying for a good service and for quality as in all sports and all aspects of life.
My membership for this year is 200euro including insurance--whats so expensive about that ??Are there cheaper ranges to join elsewhere with as much to offer. If so please let me know but I do think my loyalties will lie with the M.N.S.C.I as they have been very helpful to me and the atmosphere is second to none. Lucky for me its not too far away for me to travel.I have to travel further for my golfing (rather shooting any day:) )

skellig

I agree with Springer value for money is important,I dont think anyone could disagree with that. I do believe that is what you get in the M.N.S.C.I ,considering the size of the place and what they have to offer to our great sport the more of these ranges in the country the better.There are ranges in this country that are smaller than the car park down there and yet they charge as much if not more for membership!!!
Its simple for all to work out that a large fullbore range has to be expensive to keep especially if it has good standards as it must have in order to host international events. We all have to give credit where its due whether we like it or not (keep jealously / chips on shoulders and begrudgery out of it )

I believe high standards on ranges will have to happen ,the day of shooting in a rocky quarry and using the back of a furze bush for a toilet is long gone and no longer acceptable and good riddance to it too!!
At the international last weekend I saw a disabled shooter able to drive to the 300 / 500 and 600 firing point right up to his mark and compete . everywhere else on that range is wheelchair accessable too even the toilets (proper order dont you agree )


By the way Boudica I have to take it back when I thought you were spoofing about the helicopter, it did land on Sunday of the International "nice one" your Dad must be loaded:) When I saw the Heli pad there I thought it was a joke . Have to say the R.O didnt look too pleased about it when it hovered behind the firing point. However everyone else saw the fun side of it did he get any ariel photos?