Arts: Which subject to drop for 2nd year

Chakar

I do History, Politics and Sociology in first year. Each of the subjects has its own merits and bads.I'm trying to decide which one to drop what do you think.Here's my opinion correct me if I'm wrong!

History: Can be tedious with information overload due to "too much history" also lecturers and the department aren't very well organised with the lectures and essays etc.Is it worthwhile with interesting topics such as Reformation and 12th century Ireland.

Politics: Heard that it gets a bit math based in the final year Is this true? Otherwise I love Politics but if it gets math based, is the maths easy enough to master with practice?.Tom Garvin is an good lecturer anyway.

Sociology:Pretty good in later years interesting topics such as the in depth "Theory" side in the first semesters with Research topics.Are they interesting? Lecturers are good especially Dr Allen for Theory.

What do you think people?

Chakar

What do you think? I would appreciate the personal perspective of people doing the three subjects History, Politics and Sociology.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm in 2nd year currently. I did History, Politics and Philosophy last year and dropped Philosophy so here's my two cents.

History - Excellent range of subjects to choose from other than the proscribed course. If you like Irish history there's plenty to keep you interested. Personally I've found history very enjoyable.

Politics - Big pile of crap...to put it midly. I don't really regret choosing to drop philosophy as it wasn't for me but I REALLY regret choisng politics over English - I actually got an A1 in Honours in the Leaving Cert in that subject.

Politics is too confusing I feel. The Political Research course on Mondays is like learning a new language it's so complicated. Alot of the other stuff is similar to History too. Learning about Hobbes, Locke, Machiavelli etc. If you're doing histoy too it can get a bit much.

There's a big failure rate in politics and I think it's primarily because the course is just not interesting. In first year, like yourself, I liked Tom Garvin's lectures and alot of the stuff on Irish politics - the Dáil, Seanad, President etc. But none of that stuff is in 2nd year. Basically 2nd year is sh*t.

Only you know what's bestfor you but my advice is that if you find sociology interesting then you should go for that and history over politics as I'm not going to be recommending politics to anybody.

I hope everything works out well for you whatever you decide.

Chakar

Yeah I've heard that politics can get tough in 2nd year, didn't know that there was a high failure rate that's a pity.I can see what you mean like with Politics I'm doing Comparative Politics and its quite new and I can imagine that in 2nd year.Could be done though with good hard work throughout the term.

History, Glad to hear its good in 2nd year, I like Irish history too however I get a bit frustrated with Parnell and Home Rule mainly, but the other stuff its alright.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm sure you can do well in Politics if you work hard at it. I've a friend who hardly misses a lecture and who takes down all the notes and I can see him doing well.

Unfortunately for me though, I'm the kind of person who struggles with subjects that I've no interest in and some of the politics lectures bore me to tears.

On Mondays for the Political Research course at 4pm, there's very few people there.

I mainly chose politics as I had somewhat of a desire to do journalism and I was told politics was good preparation for that. Maybe you're in a similar boat I don't know.

Ultimately you should go for what will interest you the most. If you can talk face to face with someone who did 2nd year politics I'm sure that would help you out alot.

Blush_01

A good thing to keep in mind is that under the old system you could try out second year in all your subjects for a limited period of time before making a firm decision. I don't know how that works under Horizons, but I assume there's some flexibility there. It'd be crap if there wasn't. I'm of the opinion that you can always say no after you've tried something, but if you say an immediate no the offer won't necessarily be there the next time. Check it out with the student advisors, but don't stress too much - you still have loads of time. That said, I know someone doing History and Politics for her finals and she loves it. I also know someone who laments the day they ever decided to stick with politics. It's such a personal thing, only you can really decide based on your own experiences.

Dave!

MNG, what are the options to study in 2nd year history? (and what are the required subjects, if there are any?)

I suspect that the modules I can choose will be based roughly on the subjects that non-modular students could choose.

I'm interested in learning about Australian and American history especially...

Dave!

MNG, what are the options to study in 2nd year history? (and what are the required subjects, if there are any?)

I suspect that the modules I can choose will be based roughly on the subjects that non-modular students could choose.

I'm interested in learning about Australian and American history especially...

Chakar

Blush_01 wrote:

Check it out with the student advisors, but don't stress too much - you still have loads of time.

Thats a good tip, They could definitely help me out, like giving me reading lists and advice.I'll go to them in the holidays.

m1ke

I did history and politics. Politics was my favorite by far. Second year is a bit more difficult but you can avoid maths courses if you don't like them by not choosing modules in statistics, or voting behaviour or anything quantitative. Second year teaches you all the basics so in third year you are free to choose the subjects that interest you most. If you enjoy political philosophy, international relations etc.. you study it more in third year, if you don't like it, you never have to study it again. There is only a high failure rate among people who don't go to the lectures or read the course material. If you go to the lectures and read the course material it is very difficult to fail.

arbeitsscheuer

History and Politics, dropped Philosophy after 1st year.

Regretted my decision to drop Phil instead of Politics in 2nd year, but I'm glad I looked at the bigger picture instead of just picking whatever I did ok at in 1st yr. Why? Well, granted Politics in 2nd yr is a b*tch, but in final year there's no core course, only 4 electives which you choose. Very nice, and not difficult at all. Also, I'm reliably informed by those who did Philosophy after 1st yr that it got much much harder in later years. Plus, History and Politics compliment eachother really really well.

I love History, always have, so that one was a no-brainer for me.

ferdi

i've done at least on year of; english, history, archaeology and philosophy. all i can say is english is pants. the english department is completely retarded.

Hermione*

SebtheBum wrote:

History and Politics, dropped Philosophy after 1st year.

Regretted my decision to drop Phil instead of Politics in 2nd year, but I'm glad I looked at the bigger picture instead of just picking whatever I did ok at in 1st yr. Why? Well, granted Politics in 2nd yr is a b*tch, but in final year there's no core course, only 4 electives which you choose. Very nice, and not difficult at all. Also, I'm reliably informed by those who did Philosophy after 1st yr that it got much much harder in later years. Plus, History and Politics compliment eachother really really well.

I love History, always have, so that one was a no-brainer for me.

I'd kinda go with this to a large extent (thanks for saving me the typing Seb!) but what I really regret is not having done Greek and Roman - any of my friends who kept it for their degree loved it. Sociology, I've always heard is quite a lot of work. Even those I've known who liked it (a minority btw) found the workload difficult.

Jonny Arson

I only did Sociology in last year in 1st year (failed it). Tough subject no doubt, alot of workload required but if you find it interesting and like it then its up to you. Personally, I found the Sociology department incredibly unhelpful, cold and unlike the other departments I've had, they don't really seem to care about their students. Lecturers I had were ok. I personally thought Kieran Allen wasn't the best lecturer. He knew his stuff alright but the sheer quantity of material he would go through at such a fast pace was nearly impossible to comprehend. Other lecturuers I had were Aileen O'Carroll and Jo Murphy-Lawless were good lecturers. Head of Department (English bloke, won't name names) is an asshole of the highest order and sums up the department for me.

However if you like the subject, are genuinely interested in it and don't mind the workload (lots of reading) then it could be for you.

Chakar

Interesting, I agree the lecturers have an sizeable ego but I don't really care as long they put up notes and material and get the course done which they do except for our Intoduction to Sociology course in which Mennell skipped 3 topics but that doesn't matter as we didn't have to cover those 3 topics for the exams.

Politics, I think Politics is looking good for me now as we have choice in third year and choice in what to take.Politics is the one I'm gonna keep as I already decided before but I'm completely stuck between History and Sociology.That said History and Sociology both complement Politics with Sociology, even more so as its a Human Science along with Politics.

History,What stuff do we cover in 2nd year and third year, judging from a previous post in another thread I know we do a American Policy and Australian history any others?

Hermione*

The second year core corses are Land, Religion and Identity: Ireland c1540-1690 and From Renaissance to Enlightenment, Europe 1500-1700. On top of that, you pick two choices from a list of ten, I think. I would definitely recommend history (and not just because it's ALWAYS been my favourite subject!). The choice is fantastic, certainly I found the range of choices far surpassed that offered in politics. UCD's history dept is a lot larger than other universities, which mean they have a greater diversity, and social and economic history manage to get a look-in between all the political stuff. If you go to the history dept's website, under undergrad programmes, it lists the courses offered to second year and that'll give you an idea of what you could do. When I was in second year, I didn't get one of my first choices and ended up taking Confederate Ireland (1640s), which looks like it'll be part of the Irish core course, .... having always thought of myself as a modernist, it wa great to find a huge interest in early modern Ireland, which I'd previously known nothing about!

Also, on the overlap, last Wednesday, I had politics followed by history, and ended up having two lectures on Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement! :rolleyes:

Blush_01

ferdi wrote:

all i can say is english is pants. the english department is completely retarded.

Because they like capital letters?

Mr.Nice Guy

DaveMcG wrote:

MNG, what are the options to study in 2nd year history? (and what are the required subjects, if there are any?)

I suspect that the modules I can choose will be based roughly on the subjects that non-modular students could choose.

I'm interested in learning about Australian and American history especially...

In Semester I, the Core course is From Renaissance to Enlightenment, Europe 1500-1700 which is lectured by Declan Downey and Eamon O'Flaherty.

You then must choose 1 of the following courses:

1. Kings and Vikings in Early Ireland
2. Noble rule in Ireland, England and Scotland
3. South America: before and after the Spanish conquest
4. Early Modern Russia: From Tsar to Emperor (1547-1725)
5. Political Violence in Ireland (I did this and loved it)
6. U.S. History 1800-1877
7. Irish Emigration, 1840s-1960s
8. Germany 1918-1973: From Revolution to Ostpolitk
9. Twentieth century Britain
10. US Foreign policy in Twentieth century: from Empire to Superpower

Semester 2's core course is:

Land, Religion and Identity: Ireland c1540-1690 which is taught by Thomas Bartlett and Anthony McCormack.

You then choose 1 of the following:

1. Britain and ireland, 1100-1400
2. Japan, Korea and China c.1549-1959
3. Ireland and the Later Stuart Monarchy
4. Irish Culture from Celtic Revival to Literary Revival 1760-1922 (I chose this one and really enjoyed it)
5. Irish Catholicism, 1829-1923
6. Australian social history: a survey, 1788-2000
7. The United States 1877-1952
8. Italy from Verdi to Vespa
9. France 1930-1995
10. It says 'course to be decided' for this and I'm not sure what it turned it out to be.

Hope that proves useful. Certainly alot of choice!

orangerooster

Blush_01 wrote:

Because they like capital letters?

Oh, Ice burn!


I'm going to be doing English and History next year provided the fact that I didnt have to do any history in my repeat year will allow me to do it next year. History rocks so keep it on, as for the other two I cant really say as I never did them. All my mates in second year who did politics say if you choose the right elective courses its pretty good, if thats any help.

Dave!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

In Semester I, the Core course is From Renaissance to Enlightenment, Europe 1500-1700 which is lectured by Declan Downey and Eamon O'Flaherty.

You then must choose 1 of the following courses:

1. Kings and Vikings in Early Ireland
2. Noble rule in Ireland, England and Scotland
3. South America: before and after the Spanish conquest
4. Early Modern Russia: From Tsar to Emperor (1547-1725)
5. Political Violence in Ireland (I did this and loved it)
6. U.S. History 1800-1877
7. Irish Emigration, 1840s-1960s
8. Germany 1918-1973: From Revolution to Ostpolitk
9. Twentieth century Britain
10. US Foreign policy in Twentieth century: from Empire to Superpower

Semester 2's core course is:

Land, Religion and Identity: Ireland c1540-1690 which is taught by Thomas Bartlett and Anthony McCormack.

You then choose 1 of the following:

1. Britain and ireland, 1100-1400
2. Japan, Korea and China c.1549-1959
3. Ireland and the Later Stuart Monarchy
4. Irish Culture from Celtic Revival to Literary Revival 1760-1922 (I chose this one and really enjoyed it)
5. Irish Catholicism, 1829-1923
6. Australian social history: a survey, 1788-2000
7. The United States 1877-1952
8. Italy from Verdi to Vespa
9. France 1930-1995
10. It says 'course to be decided' for this and I'm not sure what it turned it out to be.

Hope that proves useful. Certainly alot of choice!

You're a legend, thanks for that!

Those core courses sound a bit pooey Not a big fan of rennaisance stuff.

Semester 1, I'll go for one of the US ones probably. Semester 2, probably Aussie history (although why does it say 'a survey'? Is that just bein fancy, or is there alot of statistical stuff, for example?) The other option would be the Asian history... My brother did that I think, and enjoyed it hmmm... I'll give it some thought.

Thanks again

EDIT:

Ahh I've just been looking at this site: http://www.ucd.ie/historyarchives/secondyear2005.htm

Question: for the 'choice' subjects, it gives a room number as opposed to a lecture theatre, so does that mean that the lecturers give you tutorials, effectively?

Chakar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

In Semester I, the Core course is From Renaissance to Enlightenment, Europe 1500-1700 which is lectured by Declan Downey and Eamon O'Flaherty.

You then must choose 1 of the following courses:

1. Kings and Vikings in Early Ireland
2. Noble rule in Ireland, England and Scotland
3. South America: before and after the Spanish conquest
4. Early Modern Russia: From Tsar to Emperor (1547-1725)
5. Political Violence in Ireland (I did this and loved it)
6. U.S. History 1800-1877
7. Irish Emigration, 1840s-1960s
8. Germany 1918-1973: From Revolution to Ostpolitk
9. Twentieth century Britain
10. US Foreign policy in Twentieth century: from Empire to Superpower

Semester 2's core course is:

Land, Religion and Identity: Ireland c1540-1690 which is taught by Thomas Bartlett and Anthony McCormack.

You then choose 1 of the following:

1. Britain and Ireland, 1100-1400
2. Japan, Korea and China c.1549-1959
3. Ireland and the Later Stuart Monarchy
4. Irish Culture from Celtic Revival to Literary Revival 1760-1922 (I chose this one and really enjoyed it)
5. Irish Catholicism, 1829-1923
6. Australian social history: a survey, 1788-2000
7. The United States 1877-1952
8. Italy from Verdi to Vespa
9. France 1930-1995
10. It says 'course to be decided' for this and I'm not sure what it turned it out to be.

Hope that proves useful. Certainly alot of choice!

That's absolutely brilliant, lots of choice there anyway.

This is all really good comments, I'm gonna print off all the comments and go to the Student Advisor for Arts.Sure it'll be easy enough to make a decision its either History or Sociology.

History has really good choices in second year and thats a big bonus for me.
I'm thinking that History is a great accompaniment for Politics, look at the modules like Political Violence and also a lot of people take History and Politics as a combination.

Mr.Nice Guy

DaveMcG wrote:

Question: for the 'choice' subjects, it gives a room number as opposed to a lecture theatre, so does that mean that the lecturers give you tutorials, effectively?

Yeah for the choice subjects the lecturer was the tutor. I can't remember the name of the lecturer from the Political Violence choice I did in semester 1 but she did take the tutorials.

In semester 2 I did the Irish Culture and Celtic Revival course which is taught by Marnie Hay and likewise she was in charge of the tutorials.

The Marnie Hay tutorials I had were in the first floor of the History department in her office. Very small room with all of us packed in but on the upside I was the only guy there in a room full of girls.

Hermione*

DaveMcG wrote:

Question: for the 'choice' subjects, it gives a room number as opposed to a lecture theatre, so does that mean that the lecturers give you tutorials, effectively?

My Confed Irl course had about nine people in it, and usually only six came to it(I always did since it was on in the afternoon, so I couldn't sleep in, plus I loved the course and the lecturer) so it was effectively a tutorial.

Some of the classrooms though are actually pretty big, and seat about 60 people so it's like a small lecture. Worst thing is when there's just over thirty in your class, and you have to get there five minutes early to get a seat! Especially if the lecture is at ten!;)

Chakar

In Sociology in 2nd year there are two core modules which are Theory I and Qualitative Research and if you're doing a major you take 8 elective modules

Semester 1
1.Sociology of Family
2.Sociology of Gender
3.Work and Social Stratification
4.Race and Multiculturalism

Semester 2
5.Sociology of Development
6.Identity, Diversity and Social Change
7.Social Anthropology
8.Nation and Empire

I'm doing a Major and so I would have to take all of them, are they good?

Dave!

Hermione* wrote:

My Confed Irl course had about nine people in it, and usually only six came to it(I always did since it was on in the afternoon, so I couldn't sleep in, plus I loved the course and the lecturer) so it was effectively a tutorial.

Some of the classrooms though are actually pretty big, and seat about 60 people so it's like a small lecture. Worst thing is when there's just over thirty in your class, and you have to get there five minutes early to get a seat! Especially if the lecture is at ten!;)

Cool

Was reading about the US Foreign policy course:

Specific topics to be addressed include: the Spanish-American War and the emergence of American power; the causes and consequences of two world wars; the Cold War at home and abroad; the rise of atomic energy; covert operations in Cuba, Guatemala, Chile, and elsewhere; the impact of American culture and money; wars in Korean and Vietnam; and more.

Sounds bloody deadly, I'd love to study that!

I hear that's a really popular course though, would that be true? Like would the class be huge, and maybe competition to get the places?

beanyb

I did US Foreign Policy last semester, and loved it. The course was really interesting, but the main reason was our lecturer, Mitch Lerner, was brilliant. He's not going to be around next year though, he's only here for the year.

There was about 30-35 in the class I suppose. Just send off your form as soon as you get it and you shouldnt have a problem getting it. I got both of my first choice options and they were both pretty popular ones - US FP and Hugh Gough's France course.

Dave!

beanyb wrote:

I did US Foreign Policy last semester, and loved it. The course was really interesting, but the main reason was our lecturer, Mitch Lerner, was brilliant. He's not going to be around next year though, he's only here for the year.

There was about 30-35 in the class I suppose. Just send off your form as soon as you get it and you shouldnt have a problem getting it. I got both of my first choice options and they were both pretty popular ones - US FP and Hugh Gough's France course.

Oh cool

Will the course still be available then, just with a different lecturer? I was under the impression that the course is specific to the lecturer.

It's a shame he's not gonna be there though, cos I think I saw him on TV before or somethin, and was quite impressed.

beanyb

Some of them are specific to the lecturer alright, but US FP seems to have been on for a few years with different lecturers.

He's a loud red-headed American, so if that fits the description of who you saw on tv, it was probably him.

Dave!

beanyb wrote:

Some of them are specific to the lecturer alright, but US FP seems to have been on for a few years with different lecturers.

He's a loud red-headed American, so if that fits the description of who you saw on tv, it was probably him.

Cool! I'm actually all excited about those subjects for next year! What did you think of the core courses (reformation, rennaissance, etc)? I'm not too eager to do them, they don't sound great And I have to do the medieval module from 2nd semester in first year, too, cos it clashed with my timetable this year :mad: grrg

beanyb

The core ones arent great, but they're interesting enough if you put in a teensy bit of effort.