New Aldi In Celbridge, over 18s only

mp3guy

So, I walk down to the new aldi in celbridge today to see what stuff they've got, and theres a small notice on the door that says "Children under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult". I try to get in either way, as I'm 17 and look well over 18, and I'm asked for ID. Obviously I couldn't supply it, so I'm left standing outside the shiny new store, and when I ask why, I don't get an answer. Has anyone got any idea whats going on here? Is this legal? I haven't seen it at any of their other stores. Is it something they do temporarily with new stores? Is there any consumer act I can throw in their face to get in?

Sand

More than likely they had their legal guys run over it before implementing the ban. Im pretty sure the legal guys have a better grasp of the law than people on an internet forum.

Anyway, just get your mum or dad to bring you to the store if youre so desperate to get in.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Sand

That sounds strange. It's not as if it's an adult sex shop. Even weirder that they are strict about ID aswell if you look over 18.

Not really, its not as if 15 and 16 year olds are a significant part of their income, whereas there doing most of the shoplifting/generally acting the maggot. Banning them without adult supervision is a neat way to keep out low spending trouble whilst not stopping your actual customers from entering. If anyone feels strongly about it, shop elsewhere until they miss your money.

lostexpectation

If this was challended in the high court Aldi would loose( Atleast I hope they would)...

not allowing a singular 17 yr old into a shop is rubbish... not allowing a load of giggling 15 yrs old fella in at the same time I would understand.. but this example is Jobsworthiness

faceman

mp3guy wrote:

So, I walk down to the new aldi in celbridge today to see what stuff they've got, and theres a small notice on the door that says "Children under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult". I try to get in either way, as I'm 17 and look well over 18, and I'm asked for ID.

Sorry dude, ur still considered a minor until u turn 18 so there is bog all u can do. As for looking well over 18, if they asked u for id, its time to grow that moustache!

KTRIC

"we reserve the right to refuse admission" - Thats all they need on the door.

Its their shop and legally they can refuse anyone they want and if they sell drink (which they do) they have grounds for not letting under 18's in.

lostexpectation

K-TRIC wrote:

"we reserve the right to refuse admission" - Thats all they need on the door.

Its their shop and legally they can refuse anyone they want and if they sell drink (which they do) they have grounds for not letting under 18's in.

So you don't think they are wrong in what they do?

KTRIC

lostexpectation wrote:

So you don't think they are wrong in what they do?

Not in the slightest. They own the shop, its private property, closed case.

chump

lostexpectation wrote:

If this was challended in the high court Aldi would loose( Atleast I hope they would)...

not allowing a singular 17 yr old into a shop is rubbish... not allowing a load of giggling 15 yrs old fella in at the same time I would understand.. but this example is Jobsworthiness

lostexpectation wrote:

If this was challended in the High Court Aldi would lose (At least I hope they would)...

Not allowing a lone 17 yr. old into a shop is rubbish...
Now not allowing a load of giggling 15 yrs old fellas in at the same time I would understand... but this example is Jobsworthiness

tut tut

Dooom

chump wrote:

tut tut

How was that necessary? What he said (bar the lack of capitals and a letter) was fine. Spell Czechs was created for a reason.

sportswear

Not in the slightest. They own the shop, its private property, closed case

yep 100%

nesf

chump wrote:

tut tut

Don't do that on here.

Piste

chump wrote:

tut tut

And yet you didn't notice his misspelling of challenged?

garred

mp3guy wrote:

So, I walk down to the new aldi in celbridge today to see what stuff they've got, and theres a small notice on the door that says "Children under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult". I try to get in either way, as I'm 17 and look well over 18, and I'm asked for ID. Obviously I couldn't supply it, so I'm left standing outside the shiny new store, and when I ask why, I don't get an answer. Has anyone got any idea whats going on here? Is this legal? I haven't seen it at any of their other stores. Is it something they do temporarily with new stores? Is there any consumer act I can throw in their face to get in?

It was on the Gerry Ryan Show this morning. Apparently it went on throughout the country with a lot of callers with the same problem. He rang their head office and their explanation was under the law the had to refuse under 18/s as alcohol was openly on display.
Did'nt hear the end of the show as the Ryan lad was contacting the vinteners assoc to see if this was right.

face-the-phase

Thats ab. awful as far as im concerned. Alot of 16/17 years old are in university
/ college or living ALONE and should be able to shop anywhere. As far as having alcohol on display all supermarkets do so i cant see that as a reason.

garred

Yeah, sure every Spar has wine,etc on display. I think you can get the show at the RTE website to see what the outcome was. It was a p1ss poor (and according to Gerry...bullsh1t) statement by their head office.

Our man in Havana

What time was it on at as I don't fancy listening to the full 3 hours.

Lord Oz

Age discrimination.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Our man in Havana

Simple, just go to Lidl.

Corruptedmorals

mp3guy wrote:

So, I walk down to the new aldi in celbridge today to see what stuff they've got, and theres a small notice on the door that says "Children under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult". I try to get in either way, as I'm 17 and look well over 18, and I'm asked for ID. Obviously I couldn't supply it, so I'm left standing outside the shiny new store, and when I ask why, I don't get an answer. Has anyone got any idea whats going on here? Is this legal? I haven't seen it at any of their other stores. Is it something they do temporarily with new stores? Is there any consumer act I can throw in their face to get in?

Looks like you got rid of teh beard too soon! Pwned! But yeah..that's incredibly stupid..

lostexpectation

what is it about this phrasing having 'alcohol on display'?....

Whats the set up in Aldi do they have seperate 'shop' within a shop for it and its own counter?

Its not they sell alcohol and when you take some from the shelf you go to the checkout and if there any doubt they required you to show a good ID... that where the prevention of sale to alcohol to balances.

Random

sportswear wrote:

yep 100%

Gotta agree with this every time - no matter how much you dislike it.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Haha that's funny. (I'm over 18). I actually live just 5 mins away from that Aldi and work weekends in the londis across the road - (rivalry!)
My mate wants a job there so he'll be chuffed that there'll be no underagers working/shopping there, 'cause they wrecked his buzz entirely at his last job.
No idea whether that's legal or not though. maybe it's all ploy to get all the kids to desperately want to come into Aldi?

garred

lostexpectation wrote:

what is it about this phrasing having 'alcohol on display'?....

Whats the set up in Aldi do they have seperate 'shop' within a shop for it and its own counter?

Its not they sell alcohol and when you take some from the shelf you go to the checkout and if there any doubt they required you to show a good ID... that where the prevention of sale to alcohol to balances.

It is about the alcohol according to their head office statement. Their explanation is that they don't have a seperate shop for their alcohol, its on open display.
If you listen to the Ryan show on the RTE web site it'll go into more detail. Its in the first hour of the show. As I said earlier I don't know how this finished up as this "law" was being checked up on by Ryan (I only heard the various listeners complaints).
They are not doing their future potential customers any favours. You can't even go in for a bag of oranges unless your over 18 or accompanied by an adult:eek:

Don't worry Gerry Ryan is on the case!!!

monkeyfudge

Can't be easy to shop lift in Aldi, can it?

It's bloody difficult to get out of the place without buying something as the only exit is through a till... very annoying..

Boggles

K-TRIC wrote:

"we reserve the right to refuse admission" - Thats all they need on the door.

Its their shop and legally they can refuse anyone they want and if they sell drink (which they do) they have grounds for not letting under 18's in.

Not true I'm afriad. I'm actually shocked that this is their policy. They must be confused over Irish law and having alcohol on the premises.

It's discrimantion, absoutely no different from saying "We don't let blacks in".

They would want to change their policy or they will be challenged on it.

Lump

It's their property they can tell blacks/young people/chinese/irish people to **** off if they want. It's not law that if you build a shop you have to serve everyone. I often ****ed travellers out of statoil and the police had no problem with me doing it, the first few times they were in robbing, I rang the cops and they just said "Throw them out and bar them if they come back" That's what I did.

It's not discrimination not to serve a certain type of person, it's discrimination to hire them and then sack them because they are young/from an ethnic minorty.

John

Boggles

Lump wrote:

It's their property they can tell blacks/young people/chinese/irish people to **** off if they want. It's not law that if you build a shop you have to serve everyone. I often ****ed travellers out of statoil and the police had no problem with me doing it, the first few times they were in robbing, I rang the cops and they just said "Throw them out and bar them if they come back" That's what I did.

It's not discrimination not to serve a certain type of person, it's discrimination to hire them and then sack them because they are young/from an ethnic minorty.

John

Not true.

You threw people out of the garage because they were stealing, completely different. If you stood at the door and said I'm not letting you in because you are a member of the travelling community you are in big trouble.

Just taking Travellers as an example because you brought them up, scan the papers next week and I'd say you would find it hard not to find a story about a traveller who was successful in court against a publican who refused them admssion or service.

blu_sonic

In the uk you can refuse anyone admission, its your property your inviting people onto your premises. But in Ireland the customer has all the rights you can walk all over business and they can do very little to you, less you scream "civil rights", I don't think its good that they bar 17 and under seeing as i lived in carow and used aldi a fair bit now i was 18 but some of my mates were 17 what a jip, but its their progative.

ps. that user who corrected the spelling would maybe want to get a hobbie or something

Slutmonkey57b

"Management reserves the right to refuse admission"

This is legally valid - up to the point that the management must be able to provide a valid reason, and that reason cannot be based on anything discriminatory - whether that is race, religion, gender, age, ethnic background, or Fleck Tash. So if you had travellers robbing the store before, you are not entitled to refuse travellers entry - only those people who you have proof are robbing.

Slutmonkey57b

blu_sonic wrote:

In the uk you can refuse anyone admission, its your property your inviting people onto your premises. But in Ireland the customer has all the rights you can walk all over business and they can do very little to you, less you scream "civil rights", I don't think its good that they bar 17 and under seeing as i lived in carow and used aldi a fair bit now i was 18 but some of my mates were 17 what a jip, but its their progative.

Again, European discrimination law comes into play in Britain just the same as it does here. In fact property owners in Britain have fewer rights thanks to the likes of "right to roam" hippie assholes.

blu_sonic

as the former manager of a bar there i could refuse anybody without giving or needing reason, (now i accept that a pub may be different)

lostexpectation

Boggles wrote:

Not true I'm afriad. I'm actually shocked that this is their policy. They must be confused over Irish law and having alcohol on the premises.

It's discrimantion, absoutely no different from saying "We don't let blacks in".

They would want to change their policy or they will be challenged on it.

So why don't we have an ACLU that are eager to take up sample cases like this. Im serious.

So aldi don't employ anyone under 18?

Whats the percentage of under 18s working in supermarkets?

mp3guy

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

"Management reserves the right to refuse admission"

This is legally valid - up to the point that the management must be able to provide a valid reason, and that reason cannot be based on anything discriminatory - whether that is race, religion, gender, age, ethnic background, or Fleck Tash. So if you had travellers robbing the store before, you are not entitled to refuse travellers entry - only those people who you have proof are robbing.

Thats the thing, you can't discriminate against race, religion, gender, background etc... but you CAN discriminate against age, apparently its legal. I don't care, I'm gonna urge the people who can actually get in, to boycott aldi, and go to lidl or even tesco.

BuffyBot

I wonder if it has anything to do with being a condition of their license. They have a much lower staff ratio than other supermarkets, and the alcohol is on open display. Perhaps an onus has been put on them to ensure the local little darlings don't start making off with the stuff, and this was the most effective way.

Sand

Discriminating on the basis of age is perfectly 100% legal. Try and vote before your 18; OMFG discrimination. Try and order a drink in a decent pub before your 18; OMFG discrimination. Try and get a job before your 16; OMFG discrimination. Try and enter a legal contract without your parents asset before your 18. OMFG discrimnation. You can happily say someone is too young. You really only run into problems when you say someone is too old.

Whats the percentage of under 18s working in supermarkets?

I worked in a supermarket part time before when I was younger. Kids cause far more trouble than theyre worth in terms of spending. I can understand 100% Aldis position.

But in Ireland the customer has all the rights you can walk all over business and they can do very little to you, less you scream "civil rights",

Those were the customers who were dragged screaming out to the backstores and thrown headfirst into the compactor. Ah, those were the days.

Seriously, hire a lawyer and take it all the way to the European Court of Human Rights. If you win you get your costs back so theres nothing to worry about if your knowledge of the law is as complete as you seem to think.

Skyuser

They can't refuse someone because of their age, that's against the law. Like they said on The Ryan Show after getting in contact with the Minister of Justice office. They cannot refuse entry because their under 18 but can only be refused purchasing of alcohol.
If an under 18 goes in and is asked to leave, they should stick their ground and put up a fight.

lostexpectation

Lump wrote:

It's their property they can tell blacks/young people/chinese/irish people to **** off if they want. It's not law that if you build a shop you have to serve everyone. I often ****ed travellers out of statoil and the police had no problem with me doing it, the first few times they were in robbing, I rang the cops and they just said "Throw them out and bar them if they come back" That's what I did.

It's not discrimination not to serve a certain type of person, it's discrimination to hire them and then sack them because they are young/from an ethnic minorty.

John

See why wouldn't Aldi deal with these on an adhoc basis like yourself rather then make it an official policy... ? which can be more easily attacked?

MarkR

I don't think that this is their policy in either limerick or ennis. Bit ott but within their rights i'm sure.

Degsy

I'm just guessing here but i'd say there's very little in Aldi to attract anybody under 18 with the exception of kids stuff which the parents would be buying anyway.Its more likelely a tacit policy to stop kids coming into the shop and running amok as i've seen them do many times.

Our man in Havana

I have been in many aldis across the country and this one in Celbridge seems to be the only one enforcing this line. In that case their policy is not being enforced universally then the under 18's of Celbridge should free agreived.

Slutmonkey57b

blu_sonic wrote:

as the former manager of a bar there i could refuse anybody without giving or needing reason, (now i accept that a pub may be different)

Then you were breaking the law. That's why the travellers in Mayo won their case against the pub owners - the owners couldn't provide a valid reason why they put a blanket ban on all travellers, not just the troublemakers.

philologos

that sounds very odd. I'm 17 and I have had no problem getting into Aldi in Maynooth and Fonthill. (is this a new rule that they have?)

Slutmonkey57b

Sand wrote:

Discriminating on the basis of age is perfectly 100% legal. Try and vote before your 18; OMFG discrimination. Try and order a drink in a decent pub before your 18; OMFG discrimination. Try and get a job before your 16; OMFG discrimination. Try and enter a legal contract without your parents asset before your 18. OMFG discrimnation. You can happily say someone is too young. You really only run into problems when you say someone is too old.

Again, wrong. There is a difference between the legal protection of the welfare of minors (no alcohol sales) and protection of society from minors (no under 18 voting), and discrimination against minors based purely on age. If you're going to dicriminate against age, you must prove that age is a factor in a) their behaviour, and b) their effect on your business.

So for example an insurance company can quite happily discriminate based on age, since age is a factor in how their clients's behaviour will affect their business model, but a shop cannot prevent someone they judge too young (or too old) from entering.

KTRIC

This thread is full of "experts" , it's a pity you didn't all stay till the end of law school.

I will personally look up the law governing this later and post it. Short version is - A shop is a private building. The shop owner does not have to give a reason if he doesnt want to let you in. If he does give a reason then it has to be a valid one.

lostexpectation

K-TRIC wrote:

This thread is full of "experts" , it's a pity you didn't all stay till the end of law school.

I will personally look up the law governing this later and post it. Short version is - A shop is a private building. The shop owner does not have to give a reason if he doesnt want to let you in. If he does give a reason then it has to be a valid one.

!

Tobias Greeshman

I've been in Aldi's all over the country and never heard of this rule before or seen much security around the shops.

Must pop on down to it over next few days and see what the story is.

They must have a good reason for implementing this rule, and it's their building so they can pretty much do as they please. Don't understand why they're choosing to enforce so much, there's plenty of Aldi's in much worse area's than Celbridge, that don't enforce it.

monkeyfudge

Maybe the manager is the Selfish Giant out of the Oscar Wilde story.

Selfish Giant wrote:

"My own garden is my own garden, any one can understand that, and I will allow nobody to play in it but myself."

Thirdfox

You guys should pose this question in the legal discussion forum if you want a definite answer.

Personally I think that age discrimination is allowed (especially if you consider the proportionality rule (if you're going to try to plead your constitutional rights)).

Right to refuse entry to individuals is pretty much the norm, however when you refuse a certain group of people covered under the equality Act e.g. ethnic minorities, homosexuals, fe/males etc. then you could be liable for discrimination. As far as I know, age is not a ground included in the equality Act.

Then again I am not an expert (just a law student!) and my knowledge is very patchy.