problem with 2nd hand car dealer

Wolff

Hi guys

could do with a bit of advice if anyone been in a similar situation

Basically wife bought a 2nd hand car from a dealer and traded in her old one as well - heating has never worked from day one - dealer was told straight away and the car has been back twice already for "repairs"

Heating still has never worked and now car is back again with him - they got a specialist in to look and they have been told will cost 700 euros to fix - he seems unwilling to pay for the repairs and has offered us a similar car - but a year older and with more miles with no cash back to make up the difference

His attitutde seems to suggest he thinks its a warranty issue and as its not gearbox or engine - he is doing us a favour offering an older car.

Any suggestions how I can at least force him to repair the deffective car he sold us or get money back.

Thanks

Wolff

Lex Luthor

what were the terms of the sale of the car? did you get a full bumper-to-bumper warranty?

Wolff

std warranty - engine gear box - but since the heater wasnt working when i bought the car - would have thought it did not come under a warranty

junkyard

What kind of car is it and what age is it?

Spit62500

Have a look here:

Assuming that he's a member of the SIMI...

http://www.simi.ie/showcontent.asp?SubsectionID=5

Redress

All dealers are legally obliged to honour their obligations under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, enforcing your rights as a consumer

Free Investigation and Complaints Service

The Society is aware that most car purchasers do not have the money or desire to pursue their complaints through the courts. The Society therefore provides a free Investigation and Complaints Service to help you, in the event
that you are not satisfied with the treatment you have received from a member garage.

What You Can Do

If you feel that a member of The Society has not carried out his obligation to you and, if after representation to him, you fail to get satisfaction, then you can refer the matter in writing to the SIMI Investigation and Complaints Service, 5 Upper Pembroke Street, Dublin 2.
The complaint must be submitted within three months of the date when its cause first manifested itself. The complaint will then be investigated and, failing a settlement between the parties, a recommendation will be issued by a Complaints Committee. If this recommendation is accepted by the customer, it must be implemented by the SIMI member garage.
The Investigation and Complaints Service operates to underline the fact that member garages support fair and ethical dealing and are ready and willing to do all they can to maintain their reputation for integrity.
So it is worth checking before you buy that the garage is an SIMI member.

And their complaints procedure:

http://www.simi.ie/showcontent.asp?SubsectionID=54

NON MEMBERS

If you purchase a vehicle from a garage who is not in current membership with SIMI, you may direct your complaint to the Director of Consumer Affairs (01 4025555) and as stated already you have may enforce your rights as a consumer under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980.

End quote.

And my opinion is - whether or not there was a written warrenty, the car should be of merchantable quality and fit for the purpose for which it was intended. He is obliged to fix it unless he sold the car 'as seen' or as a 'trade sale'. Even then there's room for discussion.

He needs to be persuaded that you will ensure that he fulfills his obligations.

Edited: Just saw your post. If he pointed out that the heater wasn't working and you accepted this before the sale was completed then your position is weaker.

Hope this helps...

Darando

Did you happen to get it from a Toyota (approved cars warranty) or Peugeot (platinum warranty), Nissan (gold standard) or ford (aa warranty) approved garage? If so then I would reckon then you should have a really good case for money back (or direct to toyota/nissan etc.) . If its from a back street second hand dealer, check to see if its SIMI approved, and if so then approach the SIMI.

If none of the above apply then I think you may be up that creek without a paddle. Its down to hard bargaining if thats the case i feel.

Hope it works out well for you, let us know.

colm_mcm

I think it's clear that the OP doesn't have a bumper-to-bumper warranty.

The fault should have been noted on the order form, if the OP had to take the car before the fault was fixed. money shouldn't have changed hands till all faults were rectified anyway.

What kind of car was it?
How old?
How much?

Wolff

Thanks for the replies lads - the car is a spacewagon 94 lovely car for what was paid

The heating was broken the day i picked it up - i drove it home and noticed it did not come on at all but decided to wait till I downloaded the manual and had a good look - the heating console is quite complicated as there is fornt and back heating and aircon all in the one - when I confirmed it wasnt working i called them immediatley and they agreed to fix - they did sweet FA as far as I could see gave the car back to me and said to clock up some mile and it should work - it didnt

Now when they took it back again they are sayng its going to cost 700 or 800euros - the only problemis they want me to pay

I reckon they knew all along it was broken and have just been stringing it out - will resolve it hopefully tomorrow and will post up what happened

Wolff


They arent SIMI approved BTW have had a look at the website -

junkyard

Tbh I'm surprised you got warranty on a car as old as 1994. I was in court recently and a case came up involving warranty on a 12 year old car Mercedes taken there by the owner against a car dealer and the case was lost by the owner, the judge saying that it was unreasonable for anyone to expect warranty on any car over 4 or 5 years of age. I sell cars for a living among other things and I certainly wouldn't give a warranty on any car over 5 years of age, I'm not saying I'd sell a car in unroadworthy condition by the way, but you have to be realistic. Cars seem to be the only things that people buy secondhand and expect warranties. I know of people who have bought secondhand houses for hundreds of thousands and had to spend thousands on them and never took issue with the previous owners.

DukeDredd

junkyard wrote:

I sell cars for a living among other things and I certainly wouldn't give a warranty on any car over 5 years of age, I'm not saying I'd sell a car in unroadworthy condition by the way, but you have to be realistic.

He he - you sell cars and your name is junkyard - excellent!

colm_mcm

Warranty on a 94 will be engine and drives at the most. although if it was agreed that the heater would be fixed, then the dealer should fix it. I can't believe a dealer sold a 94 car in the first place though

junkyard

DukeDredd wrote:

He he - you sell cars and your name is junkyard - excellent!

Its a joke really people are always giving me a hard time over the stuff I have around the place. A car one day, then 20 more, then its a few boats or a plane. If you knew me you'd know why.:D

mike65

Cars seem to be the only things that people buy secondhand and expect warranties. I know of people who have bought secondhand houses for hundreds of thousands and had to spend thousands on them and never took issue with the previous owners.

Thats whats the surveyers report is for! Then if house collapses sue the guy with the clipboard.

Mike.

junkyard

mike65 wrote:

Thats whats the surveyers report is for! Then if house collapses sue the guy with the clipboard.

Mike.

That might be so for the structure of the house but the house may still need some work done to it. You could also get a motor assessor to look at a car to be sure to be sure. My point is that if you buy a car 10 or 15 years old be prepared to have some troubles. I would imagine a 12 year old Mitsubishi would have a value of 3.5 to 5k euro so if you were to buy a new one you would spend in excess of 30k euros so in my opinion you get what you pay for. People seem to expect an awful lot from the motor trade in general but when you look at the bigger picture its probably the only service that will give you some comeback if there is a real problem and a lot of the "car dealers" that give it a bad name are the guys who set up shop at the side of their house and sell off the side of the road.
If you bought a second-hand washing machine for 200 euros that cost 1200 euros new, and it broke down 3 or 4 weeks later I'm pretty sure the previous owner would tell you where to go if you took issue with him.
My point is if you buy a machine that's 10 or 15 years old be perpared for some repairs, remember you only paid 10% or 20% of the price of a new one.

colm_mcm

in fairness, the heater isn't a warranty issue. it was faulty before the sale

Wolff

exactly colm not a warrant issue at all id have thought

- also junkyard - if you sell cars as a trade or business you are expected by law - 1980 sales of goods act to ensure goods are fit for the purpose they are sold - houses are sold between private individuals - you buy from a dealer you pay more than a private sale and this usually includes some sort of service and warranty etc

Any car ive ever bought and most have been older than 5 years have been bought from dealers with warranties - why else go to them ?

Private sales are riskier as there is no comeback but are cheaper - also if you buy a second hand wasing machine from a trader - you can are still entitled to repair refund or replacement if it doesnt work - so your comparison is quite incorrect

basically buy anything from a trader - entitled to warranty
buy from private individual - entitled to none

The judge in that case tbh sounds like an idiot

colm_mcm

Just out of interest. how much does a 94 spacewagon cost these days. not much more than the €700 repair bill I'd hope.

Wolff

you might be staggered to hear - 3600 euros an this was a bargain especially comapred to some of the heaps i tested and what was being looked for - lucky to get a 95 96 one for around 5000 - 6000

very popular car

junkyard

Once the car is in roadworthy condition i.e. safe I think its fair to say that any warranty is going to involve engine and gearbox only. I don't think the judge in question would be too happy with you calling him an idiot. Judges nowadays seem to be a lot more realistic then you might hope for.

colm_mcm

I'd say if he met you halfway with the unforseen expense that would be as good outcome

junkyard

colm_mcm wrote:

I'd say if he met you halfway with the unforeseen expense that would be as good outcome

I'd say your right there Colm and its really only as a gesture of good will on the dealers behalf as he won't want to take back a car of that age. There really isn't the profit margin on cars that some people may think, especially at this end of the scale. Over the years I've have people try to get warranty when they got a puncture ffs, so you can see where I'm coming from. Some people will chance their arm.

jimmycrackcorm

junkyard wrote:

I'd say your right there Colm and its really only as a gesture of good will on the dealers behalf as he won't want to take back a car of that age. There really isn't the profit margin on cars that some people may think, especially at this end of the scale. Over the years I've have people try to get warranty when they got a puncture ffs, so you can see where I'm coming from. Some people will chance their arm.

What good is a car in winter without a heater?

Wolff

well seem to have got it sorted - has agreed to meet halfway with the bill

so hopefully we'll get her back all nice and warm !!!

cheers lads for the advice

bazz26

Sounds like a fair compromise in the end.

junkyard

Yeah, good luck with the car, you did O.K. in the end to be fair.

colm_mcm

I suppose if it came to it you could've gone on Judge Judy!

Glad to hear you got a good result!

unkel

Wolff wrote:

well seem to have got it sorted - has agreed to meet halfway with the bill

You did well with that result

To continue a boards tradition to turn any thread into an Alfa thread, how are you getting on with the main man's car in your household - as in your Alfa 156?

smash

who's the dealer?