last medsoc event of the year

humbert

Does seem a bit harsh, 'twas after all open to everyone, having said that I can't remember exactly what vainglory asked...

Dave!

"So what do you guys do for fun?:)"

Vainglory

humbert wrote:

Does seem a bit harsh, 'twas after all open to everyone, having said that I can't remember exactly what vainglory asked...

Agreed. If people wanted it to be a medical students only event, then perhaps you should have asked for student ID at the door. I pay taxes, and I'm perfectly entitled to ask the Minister for Health a question about the health service if she comes to my university.

Numerous health science students (including medical students) came up to me afterwards and said thanks, too.

tintinr35

panda100 wrote:

Some of the questions were a bit silly though and hed no relevance to the debate at hand which was annoying for the people who wanted to ask real medical related questions.

panda its hardly up to u to decide what questions are relevant or not....ease up on the god complex ur not qualified yet.....and if it was a serious "medical related" debate what was george hook doing there?? judging mary harneys dance skills???

humbert

Tbh I believe it wasn't pandas opinion alone but I think you're right there is an arrogance among many med students.

Vainglory

humbert wrote:

Tbh I believe it wasn't pandas opinion alone but I think you're right there is an arrogance among many med students.

Maybe not, but as I said, anyone that came up to me after the event was only saying fair play. Someone even left a bebo comment for me saying thanks.

Dave!

what did you ask that commanded this level of congratulations?

humbert

I didn't mean to suggest that because other med students judged it similarly that the judgement is correct.

singingstranger

Vainglory wrote:

[..] I pay taxes [...]

Not on your Union wages, you don't!...

Vainglory

DaveMcG wrote:

what did you ask that commanded this level of congratulations?

Was about payments and expenses for clinical placement students working in hospitals. She'd ignored a letter I wrote to her about six months ago about it so I challenged her on it.

Vainglory

singingstranger wrote:

Not on your Union wages, you don't!...

True enough, but I have paid taxes in the past and will do again once I finish here.

panda100

tintinr35 wrote:

panda its hardly up to u to decide what questions are relevant or not....ease up on the god complex ur not qualified yet.....and if it was a serious "medical related" debate what was george hook doing there?? judging mary harneys dance skills???

It was not directed at vainglory it was directed at bigjimthefirst with who I was agreeing with.......I never said it was up to me what questions are relevant or not but it was a once in a lifetime opportunity for junior doctors and medical students to have their say in their future. Something which we have never been asked before.

Vainglory,your question was very intresting from a physio,nursing perspective but this was a med-soc event in which there was a group of doctors and Mary Harney to talk about med student and junior doctors pay and conditions so your question about placement was irrelavant at this debate. Medical students get there accomodation all payed for when they do placements outside Dublin.So while I admire you sticking up for physios,nurses etc I think it would have been fairer to do it at a time when not so many medical students had questions to find out about their future,for which the debate was intended. There was not enough time fo many medical students especially female students to have their say about junior doctors working with family or children to suport. If eng soc was having a debate about their pay and conditions when they leave college I would have left it too the engineers to ask questions about their future.

This was not,I repeat not a debate on the state of the health service it was about how to keep docors and newly qualified medical students from not leaving the country or finding different jobs.I know a lot of boardies went to see a great old debate with george hook laying into Mary Harney about the state of the health service.If we wanted this it would have been a law soc run event. It was not ,it was a med soc run event.Of course med soc would have welcomed everyone from differnet facultys to listen and have their say but the debate was on doctors working hours NOT clinical placements,as medical students do not do these.

Tintin Im sorry that you think I have a god like complex but as Mary Harney said at the end she wants to know why so many of us female medical students leave the medical proffesion so soon after qualifying and what she can do to try and change this. I do think I am in a better position to talk about this as a soon to be female graduate.That is what yesterdays debate was about so me and all my friends could have our say.Unfortunatly we did not get the time to ask these questions as time ran out.

George Hook was chairing it that and that is why he didnt lay into Mary Harney,like the other boardies wanted.When med soc invited him it was soley to have someone intresting as a chair and this is exactly what he did.He didnt comment once on what he thought doctors pay and work conditions should be in the future because his only role was not to comment but to keep things running smoothly.in which he done a fine job.

Vainglory

panda100 wrote:

It was not directed at vainglory it was directed at bigjimthefirst with who I was agreeing with.

Lol, what? You posted that before bigjimthefirst posted anything.

panda100 wrote:

I never said it was up to me what questions are relevant or not but it was a once in a lifetime opportunity for junior doctors and medical students to have their say in their future. Something which we have never been asked before. .

Harney didn't even give any decent answers, she played the typical politicans role. So if you were looking for real answers then I don't think you got them.

panda100 wrote:

Vainglory,your question was very intresting from a physio,nursing perspective but this was a med-soc event in which there was a group of doctors and Mary Harney to talk about med student and junior doctors pay and conditions so your question about placement was irrelavant at this debate. .

If you didn't want other students coming then perhaps you should have carded at the door. Like I said it was an open invitation.

panda100 wrote:

Medical students get there accomodation all payed for when they do placements outside Dublin..

That's great. Nursing students get a full time wage in third year, and Physio students get some expenses for travel when they are on placement outside Dublin. However, Radiography students get nothing. Ever. Nothing, at all.

panda100 wrote:

So while I admire you sticking up for physios,nurses etc I think it would have been fairer to do it at a time when not so many medical students had questions to find out about their future,for which the debate was intended.

With respect, it's not that often that the Minister for Health and Children visits UCD and students have a chance to ask her questions. Anyway, I wouldn't have had to ask her that question if she hadn't ignored my letter about it in the first place, so if you're looking for someone to blame..

panda100 wrote:

There was not enough time fo many medical students especially female students to have their say about junior doctors working with family or children to suport. .

Well, with respect to George Hook, maybe if he hadn't spent so much time reading from his Little Book of Rugby Related Jokes then you would have had more time.

panda100 wrote:

This was not,I repeat not a debate on the state of the health service it was about how to keep docors and newly qualified medical students from not leaving the country or finding different jobs..

To be honest I have been working with radiographers all year to try and improve their conditions and treatment on clinical placement. It has been a campaign which involved writing to Mary Harney and asking the national union USI to put pressure on her about it too. If I had sat in Theatre M and let her pontificate about all the good she is doing and not challenged her on it then I really feel like I would have been letting those students down.

I don't think I can win here. If I'd had a protest, then you would have told me that I should have tried to engage in debate with her first. When I try to engage in debate with her, you tell me I should have kept my big ignorant mouth shut altogether.

singingstranger

Is it just me or does anyone else sniff a double-banning again?

humbert

It's probably also worth pointing out that it wasn't a particularly long question and so at most the meds missed only one question, there were one or two meds who took all day about asking their questions, if time was so precious. Also the question was deemed silly, I still don't follow why if it did benefit those mentioned previously.

Vainglory

singingstranger wrote:

Is it just me or does anyone else sniff a double-banning again?

Pssht. No way. I'm being perfectly civil.

panda100

singingstranger wrote:

Is it just me or does anyone else sniff a double-banning again?

Nope I apprecaite what vainglory is saying....she did good to stick up for the rads etc and Im sure they appreciated it. Would be good next year if we could get Harney and mary Hannifin in to a debate to debate those clincal placement probs going on in rad etc.

Agree with you vainglory,that Harney answred nothing as usual,just the usual spin,but I did like that dr Hillary dud he was cool.

Chinafoot

singingstranger wrote:

Is it just me or does anyone else sniff a double-banning again?

Double banning? No.

Banning for blatant shít-stirring? That is a different story.

elmyra

DaveMcG wrote:

"So what do you guys do for fun?:)"

Roffle.

Did nobody else get that?

tintinr35

does med-soc not encompass all the health sciences???

Vainglory

elmyra wrote:

Roffle.

Did nobody else get that?

I was actually considering asking her "WHY DID YOU BAN MAGIC MUSHROOMS, YOU BITCH!!"

But that question would have been slightly harder to defend on here.

Dave!

Vainglory wrote:

I was actually considering asking her "WHY DID YOU BAN MAGIC MUSHROOMS, YOU BITCH!!"

But that question would have been slightly harder to defend on here.

Tell me about it! She's in my bad books over that

humbert

Yea bitter about that myself but I think most politicians would have done the same

Dave!

yeah, cos they're GHEYbos

The_Minister

DaveMcG wrote:

Tell me about it! She's in my bad books over that

She had no choice really.

Dave!

I know, cos then she'd lose votes from listeners of Joe Duffy

The_Minister

DaveMcG wrote:

I know, cos then she'd lose votes from listeners of Joe Duffy

No, cause it was already illegal she was just closing a loophole.

Dave!

Firespinner wrote:

No, cause it was already illegal she was just closing a loophole.

it was legal mate, as legal as your every day, dinner-type mushroom. things need to be named to be illegal, not to be legal.

she needed to make them illegal in order to keep the granny votes, that's the only reason.

panda100

humbert wrote:

Tbh I believe it wasn't pandas opinion alone but I think you're right there is an arrogance among many med students.

Just have to stick up for the meds here as we are truly not an arrogant bunch.

You have to appreciate the fact that we are in UCD for a total of 7 years.In my four years here so far,you get to know pretty much everyone in medicine and there seemed to be a lot of apathy towards vainglorys question.

You have to appreciate the fact that most meds feel very hard done by the union,so when vainglory said 'as my capacity as education officer' there was a collective groan from many of my peers. Every year we get canvassers trapseing thorugh the terrace for the political hacks annual trek into the city centre,where they offer us the sun,moon and stars.
For the last four years I've been in college almost every potential education officer has promised us a new copi print machine as there is only one and if that breaks down we have to go all the way out to UCD.Has our copi print machine ever materialised??Has our offer of an atm machine ever materialised so we dont have to head all the way down to grafton street to get a bit of money out in our overpriced,poorly run coofee shop? Every year we naievly believe that the ents officer will fufill his promises of lunch time shows and evening partys in hartigans.Every year since Ive started in 2001 we've been told how next year we'll be out in Belfield where we can fiinally be apart of student life.
Therefore,i think you maybe confusing 'arrogance' with 'isolation'.We cant hang out in the bar aftre lectures or head to a comedy debate in theatre L,all we can do is stick together,and thats what we do.
So when finally we had a high profile debate about our future,you can excuse us for being arrogant with our wants and needs as that is something we never got from our union or colege.The fact that Mary Harney made the time and effort to come to UCD to talk to us is more then any union officer has ever done,except for the odd thursday here and there when they come out to sit in a teeny offic in the terrace. You can see why last night we wanted to discuss doctors in the health serive and not discuss with the health minister the education and funding of radiographers or magic musshrooms.This wasnt about people grievances with the health minister it was about us and our future.If you still concieve this a sarrogance then I dont know what to think.
I want to see a drastic change in the health service just as much as any of you and last night was us,the med students say in that change. It was an open debate so we could all hear what Mary Harney and the docors representatives had to say. Yet you all walked away with the impression that med students are 'arrogant' and 'god like' an impression that I consistently get on these boards,the union and UCD as awhole,I try to take the mick out of it here on boards but i am probably one of the least arrogant people ever in rela life!I think this feeling on boards and in UCD as a whole that med students are arrogant bodes badly for the future of the irish health service as respect is a two way street. Whereas all the meds I know would have the utmost respect for their patients I have little faith in that respect being reciprocated especially from these views.

The_Minister

DaveMcG wrote:

it was legal mate, as legal as your every day, dinner-type mushroom. things need to be named to be illegal, not to be legal.

she needed to make them illegal in order to keep the granny votes, that's the only reason.

They were only legal for scientific purposes and this was exploited. They were illegal for personal consumption. They were not comparable with other mushrooms
Also, its not fair to blame her, all the other parties backed it.