last medsoc event of the year

Stepherunie

There's a class rep for every 100/150 or so students, don't think foundation med actually have an elected class rep on the SU council, i know they have two within there class but as they'res not over 100 in premed it's quite possible they're lumped in with 1st med

The rep for 1st med is right, I know her and know she's first meds rep alright.

We only get one class rep to represent for all years so i know about the lack of representation - one rep really can't effectively represent the issues of four year groups, especially when you actually wouldn't see the other year groups all that much.

I spend alot of time in ET so i know the issues with the lack of hot food and water fountain because that fountain in the restaurant dispenses foul tasting water - i see very few people drinking it.

panda100

bigjimthefirst wrote:

Work together to do what? SU don't fulfil their role in ET!! Tbh I'm trying to think of how Med Soc fulfils an SU type role in ET, and I can't think of anything! Why shouldn't we pissed off that the SU doesn't do its job?!
?!

Just to clairy:
The opening of a prayer room was in the end a med soc run initative despite countless promises by deputy presidents past.

The extension of library hours in the ealsfortt tearrce while dillons union can take credit perhaps for the main belfield library opening hours ,the earlsfort terrace library opening hours were due to med soc pressure on med alumni which caused more funding into the terrace library.

Anyone who remembers the old lecture theatre (barn:D ) upstairs in the terrace was yet again a med soc run initative with med soc representatives putting pressure on the medicine faculty to install our new desperatly needed state of the art lecture theatre.The education officers of unions past were not involved in this initative at all.

The few things that the union do have control over and run that we can see from previous threads...i.e the union shops,printing machines etc.Med soc have tried to improve these facilites that the union should provide but they have not imprived/changed in the 5 years I have been here.Still 4 photocopy machines,1 copi-print machine and poorly stocked shop to provide for 800 students,probably more.From what I gather from the 'Can I leave the union' thread' I stay in the union to avail and pay for these services.Yet they are wholly inadequate and would rather pay 60 euro to med soc to be in charge of these things then throwing it down the tube with paying for whatever the union pays for?!(protestors court fee's I presume as they have paid for two this year).

Stepherunie,I feel really sorry for your plight I really do but I dont think you can put everyone in the health sciences bracket together.Ag science and vet are twinned together into the same school but they both have very different aims and wants as a collective of students.The same with eng and architecture.They are twinned together under the same college.Once again both having very differnt paths through college and differnt aims at the end of it. Therefore I cant see how effective it would be for physios to join under med soc.
I thing you believe me and bigjimthefirst and meds are not being sympathetic to your tough road through college,but we are.Im trying to help you by suggesting that perhaps the education officer asking questions to the minister isnt the way to get these things done for rads. Maybe the physios would be better leaving the union,putting their 60 euro into a physo run group that can get problems fixed. As med soc have proved time and time again in the terrace you most certainly dont need the union to get things done in UCD.

Stepherunie

I don't for one second believe that you are not being sympathetic, meds like everyone else have it tough, medsoc works hard for students and it does produce results and i congratulate you on that. We don't have that kind of pull, but we try what we can. At the moment we have no other choice than getting the SU to help.

Meds are rads were put into the same school and as a result lost some of the automony we once had, I don't believe that everyone should be put under one health sciences umbrella society to represent there needs, we all have very different needs, just like every course in UCD. Decisions were put in place for our course without consulting students, we lost anonymous numbers and had to use our student numbers without any student consulation - it was just done, now we have great lecturers who make sure they don't have our student numbers but still it's a loss.

We've tried campaigning in college, we've had meetings with the college, we've submitted reports to Dr Nolan and Prof Powderly, we've engaged with the college, we've talked to the USI, we've sent letters and gor nowhere. What else do you suggest we do? (I don't mean that in a mean way, It's just got to the point where there are few ideas left)

Vorsprung

panda100 wrote:

Just to clairy:
The opening of a prayer room was in the end a med soc run initative despite countless promises by deputy presidents past.

The extension of library hours in the ealsfortt tearrce while dillons union can take credit perhaps for the main belfield library opening hours ,the earlsfort terrace library opening hours were due to med soc pressure on med alumni which caused more funding into the terrace library.

Anyone who remembers the old lecture theatre (barn ) upstairs in the terrace was yet again a med soc run initative with med soc representatives putting pressure on the medicine faculty to install our new desperatly needed state of the art lecture theatre.The education officers of unions past were not involved in this initative at all.

The few things that the union do have control over and run that we can see from previous threads...i.e the union shops,printing machines etc.Med soc have tried to improve these facilites that the union should provide but they have not imprived/changed in the 5 years I have been here.Still 4 photocopy machines,1 copi-print machine and poorly stocked shop to provide for 800 students,probably more.From what I gather from the 'Can I leave the union' thread' I stay in the union to avail and pay for these services.Yet they are wholly inadequate and would rather pay 60 euro to med soc to be in charge of these things then throwing it down the tube with paying for whatever the union pays for?!(protestors court fee's I presume as they have paid for two this year).

Panda's extra years in college show! I stand corrected! So Med Soc have done a lot, all that was before I got involved.

tintinr35

panda100 wrote:

Therefore I cant see how effective it would be for physios to join under med soc.

should ye not consider a name change to DocSoc so if ye are not representative of all those who study in the field of medicine!!!

Dave!

plus, it rhymes!

panda100

tintinr35 wrote:

should ye not consider a name change to DocSoc so if ye are not representative of all those who study in the field of medicine!!!

nah cos that would be just ineffective for both the meds and rads...why should med soc be in charge of a group that has very little to do with them except that we may all work in a hospital at sometime. Then why not group b+l,law soc and all those who will be working in a courtroom or office together??The rads just aren't med socs problem,and I really dont meant that in a rude way but its not.We have very differnt training,etc and they on leaving colege they do completly differnt jobs..rads looking at x-rays us doing our doctor thing....

Stepherunie...how many other rads trining colleges are there in the country??is it only UCD or do UCC train rads too??

Stepherunie

Trinity train theraputic radiographers - a completely different field of study, they have 100 students or so in total - there's only 25 in each of there classes. UCD is the only diagnostic radiography training college in the Republic, likewise with trinity having the only radiation therapy course in the republic. UU Jordanstown also train Radiographers but that's the UK.

I agree with panda, rads and meds have such different courses - our course is completely unlike any other course in med - a lot of courses do blocks of work experience or placements we do two to three days per week although this has changed for first years, I only had college for three days a week and worked for the other two this year - next year that switches around.

pretty*monster

When philsoc have speakers we let anyone come and ask any kind of random question they want. It doesn't matter if you don't do philosophy.

(I'm just saying is all)

The_Minister

If you were just saying it, why say it twice?:rolleyes:

pretty*monster

Firespinner wrote:

If you were just saying it, why say it twice?:rolleyes:

Because my compy was sooooo slow this morning and it was taking ages for the delete to kick in.

But it's working now.

The_Minister

pretty*monster wrote:

Because my compy was sooooo slow this morning and it was taking ages for the delete to kick in.

But it's working now.

I think it was boards that was slow cause it was taking ages for me as well

Paddy_J

I agree that Medsoc have done loads in the Terrace, and I actually think that the Meds (and perhaps the physios/rads) splitting off from the SU isn't half a bad idea. With over two hundred students in five years (and over one hundred in premed) of medicine alone, we have an awful lot of lobbying power. Especially when one considers the ridiculous amount of money that each med class brings to the college with all their lucrative, fee-paying students. I saw a calculation someone in BigJim's class drew up one time, and it was on the order of millions!

As BigJim said,

..we get potential officers coming in every year promising the world. We end up with nothing extra. There is not one single tap with drinking water in the Terrace, so if you want water, you have to buy it. There is no hot food ANYWHERE near the Terrace after 3pm, so most people in the Library who haven't got something with them end up with a roll, bag of crisps and bottle of water/coffee. Closest hot food to the Terrace at that hour is Burger King on Baggot St.

This is a totally ridiculous situation. It's true that year after year potential SU candidates come in (many probably need a map to find the Terrace! ) and promise the meds the sun, the moon and the stars in order to get those crucial few votes. Most people from my class, on the other hand, don't bother their arse voting. What's the point? This officer, if elected, will be gone in 10 or 11 months with nothing to show. I think the only power the meds could get as a lobbying group withing the university would come from an independent medsoc. It's worked quite well for the vets, in my opinion!

Not saying it's the way to go, mind you, but definitely something worth considering...

Byrno

Paddy_J wrote:

I actually think that the Meds (and perhaps the physios/rads) splitting off from the SU isn't half a bad idea........

I think the only power the meds could get as a lobbying group withing the university would come from an independent medsoc. It's worked quite well for the vets, in my opinion!

Couldn't disagree with you more Paddy_J! It would be far better for us to deal with issues within an overall SU than on our own. For one it would be far harder for us Meds to have direct communication with the top of the college if we were on our own instead of being fully involved in the SU. Also we would have no say on Governing Authority, Finance Commitee etc. if we were on our own whereas now we have a (limited - but that's a different issue) say through the SU. Plus we wouldn't have access to the support services, e.g. Welfare Officer, Accom+Employment Officer etc, that would be right beside us when we get to Belfield.

I suppose this brings me to the main point I want to make. If meds got more involved in the SU too the SU would be able to deal with the issues. Officers would thus know what needs to be done and would be able to organise campaigns for meds more effectively. If meds aren't involved in the SU, there is very little the SU can do as the people involved don't know what is going on. I think that many of the problems that many meds have with the SU boil down to the fact that there isn't largescale involvement and participation in the SU.

dajaffa

I do agree that Medsoc have been doing most of the work that the SU should be doing for meds in ET over the years, but I reckon that will start to change in 2007 when they're back in belfield.

I'd say gradually the SU will do more for med students, and eventually Medsoc will do more on the events front. (the fact that there may be a couple of meds going 4 sabbat positions next year will help!)

Futhermore, I think our societies officer is a joke, and it's disgraceful that we don't have a radsoc in ucd, when there are people there ready + willing to run it. That's not the only reason he's crap, but that argument isn't for this topic.

I also agree that the situation were only meds can vote in medsoc is ridiculous. By the time ppl reach 2nd year, only meds join, but many a fresher from physio/radio did the equlivalent of chucking money in the bin. It would make more sense 4 medsoc to be like physiosoc, not have a stand in the freshers tent, and just allow meds to join the way things are at the mo. I know physiosoc came in for criticism for only allowing physios in, but the soc basically organises stuff like hoodies and the therapy ball (which radios can go to as well now following our break-up with Trinity), and it'd wouldn't be fair to have a fresher and €2 part company unless they are a physio. Also, there are 2 class reps 4 each year to liase with the staff, which is important as we only have one SU rep at the mo, and courses like ours with placements need that.

And finally, if the debate was to only be about doctors working hours (c'mon, the should have knwon quite a few non-meds would be there with Harney coming, fair play for getting her to come btw), the chair of the debate shouldn't have allowed off-topic questions.

Stepherunie

dajaffa wrote:

Futhermore, I think our societies officer is a joke, and it's disgraceful that we don't have a radsoc in ucd, when there are people there ready + willing to run it. That's not the only reason he's crap, but that argument isn't for this topic.

I'm going before the recognition committee tomorrow to try and get radsoc started - believe you me if we can do it it'll be there, we've worked damn hard over the past year to try and get things going and hopefully the committee will see that.

singingstranger

Stepherunie wrote:

I'm going before the recognition committee tomorrow to try and get radsoc started - believe you me if we can do it it'll be there, we've worked damn hard over the past year to try and get things going and hopefully the committee will see that.

I'm sure it's not the first time it's been suggested to you, but if all else fails, you should try and find a currently defunct, any-way-medically themed Society that you can overtake and revamp as appropriate - it's a far, far easier way of setting up a society. Probably the only way that we would have gotten DeutschSoc up and running this year at all.

Stepherunie

See there used be a Radsoc, it just kinda fell out of use, so we contacted richard butler and he told us we had to go before a recognition committee again to use it. We feel we have a fairly strong case though - my god, we've just been working out the list of things we hope to achieve and they all seem fairly achievable with not too much effort - we're lucky in that we've got support from the lecturers and the IIR, our professional body... roll on 1.30 tomorrow.......

singingstranger

Well, best of luck with it anyway; were my thoughts at the time not destined to be smothered by Germanistic ponderings I'd be hoping the best for you!

Vorsprung

Byrno wrote:

I think that many of the problems that many meds have with the SU boil down to the fact that there isn't largescale involvement and participation in the SU.

In fairness Colm, I think many of the problems that meds have with the SU boil down to the fact that SU exec candidates waltz in, get their votes from Terrace students, and aren't heard from till the next lot 12 months later.

BTW Res Year Jim here

Another BTW when I emailed the returning officer about hospitals' voting stations during that Student Centre referendum, he never replied.

Stepherunie wrote:

See there used be a Radsoc, it just kinda fell out of use, so we contacted richard butler and he told us we had to go before a recognition committee again to use it. We feel we have a fairly strong case though - my god, we've just been working out the list of things we hope to achieve and they all seem fairly achievable with not too much effort - we're lucky in that we've got support from the lecturers and the IIR, our professional body... roll on 1.30 tomorrow.......

Best of luck with that, really hope you get it.

Vorsprung

dajaffa wrote:

I do agree that Medsoc have been doing most of the work that the SU should be doing for meds in ET over the years, but I reckon that will start to change in 2007 when they're back in belfield.

I'd say gradually the SU will do more for med students, and eventually Medsoc will do more on the events front. (the fact that there may be a couple of meds going 4 sabbat positions next year will help!)

Yea this is probably how it will pan out.

dajaffa wrote:

I also agree that the situation were only meds can vote in medsoc is ridiculous.

This will be changed next year (well, I'll bring it up when it comes around next year!).

Red Alert

Stepherunie, you might be able to get away without having to do that. The society could be dormant but might still exist. That's the way it was with Elecsoc which had died for a number of years which yours truly is currently the secretary of. I've managed a whole year without having to come in contact with Mr. Butler

Having the lecturers etc on side will really help tho'. In spite of the fact that Elecsoc did little this year, the lecturers were very keen on having it up and running again now that class sizes are getting a bit bigger! Hope it works out for you tomorrow!

panda100

bigjimthefirst wrote:

Another BTW when I emailed the returning officer about hospitals' voting stations during that Student Centre referendum, he never replied.

.

I emailed the previous returning officer about this too and no answer......Since I didnt get a reply and I didnt know where else to put it I also suggested it on the UCDSU newswire,where as usual I got a birage of insults tellng me to f off as Im only a self righteous med student after all and if med students want to vote they can come into the terrace or health science block to vote....the union really is so welcoming:rolleyes: ...we only have to read faustas and tallyrand to see that its an insular little world where outsiders who dont live and breathe the union dont really fit in.

Byrno wrote:

It would be far better for us to deal with issues within an overall SU than on our own. For one it would be far harder for us Meds to have direct communication with the top of the college if we were on our own instead of being fully involved in the SU.

As I have said before from past experience this doesnt seem to be the case. At the end of the day its the people inside the courses and doing the actually courses that knows whats best for them.The education officer etc already had too much on their hands with whats out on belfield then to worry about us. As meds we deal with prof powderly and the terrace seceratys day in day out so we have a direct link to the people who can make REAL changes and not going indirectly to an education officer/president in belfield.

Byrno wrote:

Plus we wouldn't have access to the support services, e.g. Welfare Officer, Accom+Employment Officer etc, that would be right beside us when we get to Belfield.

This is the same accomodation and employment office that did what exactly this year??Organised a talk with a sacked dunnes store worker??What exactly has the accomodation and emplyment officer done for us??Finbar Dwyer run an anti coke campaign from his a+e office(Im still trying to figure out how this benefits Irish employment) Enda Duffy gave my mate an evening herald when she was looking for a room(I think she could have done that herself)And are we really gaining from the welfare office?You dont need the welfare officer in order to avail of the free psychologist or psychiatrist and with or without the welfares officers help the waiting lists for these are still goingt o be huge,like all health servces in this country. As for the campaigns,its not like we really need to put a huge amout into these,we're medics and dont need to be told by a 2nd year arts student what testicular cancer looks like.

Byrno wrote:

I think that many of the problems that many meds have with the SU boil down to the fact that there isn't largescale involvement and participation in the SU.

Ask David C,paddy G or any of the old med union reps and they will tell you of their frustration of being connected with the union. I dont think any med has the patience or time to go all the way out to UCD every couple of weeks to listen to two hours of unelected reps spouting off what country,union,person or anti-war movement they are in solidarity with this week. We only have to see the reports here from the last council meeting to see the sort Of juvenile circus the union is and I dont think anyone mature with the view of using college to reinforce their future would want to get involved.

pretty*monster wrote:

When philsoc have speakers we let anyone come and ask any kind of random question they want. It doesn't matter if you don't do philosophy.

(I'm just saying is all)

Med soc is exactly the same..of course it wouldnt stop anyone from asking a question. But surely me and Bigjim and other meds are just allowed to comment if we feel a question that was asked was inappropriate for the topic of debate itself and the society it represents. I mean Im sure you would take note and discuss if Brian Doyle or someone you did not politcally agree with asked an off topic question at a philsoc debate (we were just saying thats all)

Stepherunie

Looks like we got it, sorry i know an aside but i'm happy.

humbert

Good for you, I hope things begin to change!

panda100

Stepherunie wrote:

Looks like we got it, sorry i know an aside but i'm happy.

Thats brill...will definatly join it next year to give a bit of support for the rads

Stepherunie

panda100 wrote:

Thats brill...will definatly join it next year to give a bit of support for the rads

You'll be more than welcome to our happy slappy little group - not official yet but it went really well and they felt our proposal was good - james carroll was worried about a few small things but that's only small.

Woot!

dajaffa

panda100 wrote:

As for the campaigns,its not like we really need to put a huge amout into these,we're medics and dont need to be told by a 2nd year arts student what testicular cancer looks like.

Ah come on now. Surely doctors in the making welcome people being made more aware of symptoms of diseases. While it's simply wonderful that you know, there are the guts of 20,000 students in this college, and most of them aren't doing medicine, and may not know.

Quite frankly, if a campaign raising awareness of testicular (or any other type of) cancer, made even one student go to their GP to get something checked out, it'd be worth doing, and surely that can justify 2 minutes of your precious time being taken up by a lecture address.

panda100

dajaffa wrote:

Ah come on now. Surely doctors in the making welcome people being made more aware of symptoms of diseases. While it's simply wonderful that you know, there are the guts of 20,000 students in this college, and most of them aren't doing medicine, and may not know.

Quite frankly, if a campaign raising awareness of testicular (or any other type of) cancer, made even one student go to their GP to get something checked out, it'd be worth doing, and surely that can justify 2 minutes of your precious time being taken up by a lecture address.

I was talking about med students not needing all the campaigns not other students.....I wasnt talking about other facultys breaking away from the union just medicine

But thats just the thing my precious time has never included a lecture address from a sabbatt officer on important issues such as health issues etc.I would welcome them if they did.Yet The only time I have ever been lecture addressed by someone in the union is at election time when they want my votes.

dajaffa

Oh, I thought that u had been lecture addressed + was comlpaining about it... sorry bout that

But I don't think you can make a blanket statement about meds not needing the same campaigns. Firstly, I'm sure loads of FYM and 1st medical year students don't know everything that's in the leaflets etc that the SU do aboout some health issues, and secondly, even students in later years (given the amount of information they have to learn) might not know everything. They may know the biochemistry say of a disease, but not actually know all the symptoms. They're all still students after all.