New RTE property show tonight

Beta2

The fact that someone would begrudge a single mother and her child a spare room and a little garden makes me sick.

The fact that the Ballymun towers are being razed and replaced with houses is testiment to the fact that apartment blocks are no place to raise kids.

It sounds like people here are living in places that they could afford, if prices weren't so high it'd probably be the last place that they'd live, so they begrudge anyone who wants to provide better for their children.

If people want to live in squalor and moan about everyone else who is trying to do better, fair enough but I'll always champion them for wanting a better quality of life for their children.

FillSpectre

Beta2 wrote:

The fact that someone would begrudge a single mother and her child a spare room and a little garden makes me sick.

I hope you are not talking about me as I am not begrudging anybody anything. I am simply saying that it is not what they need and if they can't afford and still expect it then that is greed. I couldn't care less if they could afford it or not just the moaning. Maybe you misunderstand what is being said.

Beta2 wrote:

The fact that the Ballymun towers are being razed and replaced with houses is testiment to the fact that apartment blocks are no place to raise kids.

Actually no it doesn't. The flats were mostly 3 beds and designed for families. The main problems only started when they moved in the people lower (single men with social problems) on the list as families were able to get what they wanted was the problem. Bad mangement of resources and people manipulating the system. Do you feel the same about all the coporation estates that are dangerous. Finglas is houses yet has the same social problems.

Beta2 wrote:

It sounds like people here are living in places that they could afford, if prices weren't so high it'd probably be the last place that they'd live, so they begrudge anyone who wants to provide better for their children.

The second mention of begrudgery and you are the only one doing it. POint out where people are showing begrudgery! THe fact I dislike an unsubstainable demand means I have thought about the subject. I don't know how or why you made such a wild assumption but I am quite happy with where I live and what I can afford.

Beta2 wrote:

If people want to live in squalor and moan about everyone else who is trying to do better, fair enough but I'll always champion them for wanting a better quality of life for their children.

THe talk of squalour now. Where are you getting this? Unbelieveable judgmental and arogant to assume reasons people have said what they have said. First off you have gotten what has been said wrong and then made assumptions. The over use of "catch" pharses and terms (begrudegery)suggest a lack of understanding. If I say I don't think a single mother of one child does not need a 3 bed house that is not begrudgery that is an opinion and it stands

ionapaul

MorningStar....is that you?

replytohere2004

It's definitely MorningStar, I'd spot that dodgy grammar anywhere.:D

Beta2

OK I was probably a bit OTT in my last post, but I was disappointed that with 10 years of economic success people consider a spare room or garden a luxury.

I have lived in downtown chicago and I had a spare room, I have lived in the center of London and had a garden.

I really don't think that a mothers wish to have a spare room and a garden unreasonable.

Its not unreasonable in most western countries, if its unreasonable here then there is something wrong with our society.

(Before any suggests comparisons of other cities be realistic, Manhattan is not on par with Malahide)

ionapaul

replytohere2004 wrote:

It's definitely MorningStar, I'd spot that dogdy grammar anywhere.:D

I just never encountered anyone with such a similar argumentative style (i.e. I'm 100% right, you're 100% wrong, what does 'compromise' mean?) - MorningStar rocked, he was infallible, better than the Pope!

FillSpectre

In fairness the woman in the show was not as bad as the papare suggested. She made some mistakes and had wants but was willing to deal with what she could afford. It was funny to see her friends giving out about Dublin people pushing up the prices and then see her basically pass the demand down the line. I know a few people who had the expensive car on credit and own nothing. Renting is dead money but paying credit for a depreciating luxury is a very strange idea to me.

I still don't think it is reasonable for a person to expect a spare room and a garden especially on a single income with a child. When I grew up nobody had a spare room in their house untill a child moved out so I see it as a luxury. In fact most families had people sharing a room. I lived in the US and the UK and most people in cities and around don't have spare rooms and/or gardens. I don't think other western countries have 3 bed semis with gardens that is an UK and Irish standard. Any place I have been has a completely differnt type of housing to here.

Lex Luthor

FillSpectre wrote:

In fairness the woman in the show was not as bad as the papare suggested. She made some mistakes and had wants but was willing to deal with what she could afford. It was funny to see her friends giving out about Dublin people pushing up the prices and then see her basically pass the demand down the line. I know a few people who had the expensive car on credit and own nothing.

I live in Naas and I agree with her a lot of the people living near me are from Dooblin.
Problem is, there's a few from Clondalkin moving in and you can see they are starting to make their mark already changing the teak windows to white PVC ones and putting up white conservatories....

I was a bit surprised they showed her mouthing off her full house number & address on TV...

FillSpectre

Lex Luthor wrote:

I live in Naas and I agree with her a lot of the people living near me are from Dooblin.
.

That is becasue people want big houses that they don't need which is what I was saying. I don't get why the suggestion that 3 bed semi for single parent and single is a bad idea for everybody is seen as begrudgery. I can't see it as sustainable myself but people seem to demand it and obviously don't like the suggestion that they don't need it so should buy what they need rather than what is traditional and not designed for such family structures. There was cool show on Channel 4 about more modern designs of Europe. It made a lot of sense

base2

Why are young Irish people obsessed about property? Whats wrong with renting? The rest of the world does it.

Of the people my age that have bought property I can safely say that by renting,
.. I live in a much nicer area and a have far nicer apartment that they couldnt afford
.. Have much more disposable income due to low rental payments (Rents in Galway city centre are tiny. e1100 pm for 500k apartments!)
..Don't have to bother with the stresses of securing/owning and maintaining a property
..Can develop my career better (research) by taking all those global oppurtunities that a home owner has to turn down.

And what do they get? To pay off their mortgage earlier whent they are 50+?

Beta2

FillSpectre I understand what your saying, but you say it as fact when its opinion.

I'm sorry but I have read your posts and maybe you don't mean it but it sounds to me like you begrudge her having a spare room.

be·grudge (b-grj)
tr.v. be·grudged, be·grudg·ing, be·grudg·es

1. To envy the possession or enjoyment of: A spare room, I didn't have one when I was a child, so why should her child!

There was one very good piece of advice offered by the presenter last night, "Property prices may fall as well as rise. If they do fall and you can't sell your house where would you rather live?" most people don't pay heed to this and buy small 1 apartments that aren't suitable for kids to grow up in, assuming that they will be able to buy a bigger place when they want kids. For their sake I hope any downturn is minimal and shortlived.

FillSpectre

Beta2 wrote:

FillSpectre I understand what your saying, but you say it as fact when its opinion.

The only thing I have stated as fact is that it is unsustainable. That is not opinion as far as I am concerend if you want to say it is disagree with that fine but explain why instead of a blaket comment like that.

I'm sorry but I have read your posts and maybe you don't mean it but it sounds to me like you begrudge her having a spare room.

be·grudge (b-grj)
tr.v. be·grudged, be·grudg·ing, be·grudg·es

1. To envy the possession or enjoyment of: A spare room, I didn't have one when I was a child, so why should her child![/QUOTE]

I don't envy her having a spare room as I have what I want and can afford. I don't care if she enjoys it. I dislike complaints about not being able to afford it. So explain how I fit your description of begrudgery. I see it as a luxury as it is by any standrad. This is not begrudge you don't appear to be able to understand the word with a definition. By saying people didn't have it before is showing the standard before hand and pointing out it is a luxury and also that that type of housing is designed for larger families. It is the same as everybody having large vans instead of cars that only one person uses and never using public transport. People can see that as unsustainable and crazy but when it comes to housing it dosen't seems to be a problem. Low housing denisty is the same as a fact.

By saying stop moaning about not getting a luxury is not begrudgery. Explain how it is without assuming that I don't have a spare room or had one in my childhood house which is the only way you have hinted at so far.

Arcadian

base2 wrote:

Why are young Irish people obsessed about property? Whats wrong with renting? The rest of the world does it.

Because it's cheaper to buy? It was for me anyway, my mortgage now is only €100 or so a month more than my rent was 4 years ago.

FillSpectre

Arcadian wrote:

Because it's cheaper to buy? It was for me anyway, my mortgage now is only €100 or so a month more than my rent was 4 years ago.

I don't think that is true anymore in fact I would guess it has not been true for a long time maybe 7 years. The additional expenses outside a mortgage easily make it more expensive to own now. I think a lot of experts suggest renting over buying for many people. Not sure I agree but for some I am sure that must be right.

gerire

I dont think there was too much wrong with that one last night atleast she wasn't ringing Daddy in Hong Kong for an extra 100k. I found it quite amazing that she got the shared ownership deal within 10 days no waiting lists or anything.

Does anybody know that if you get one of these shared ownership deals can you get a bank "top-up" mortgage to go with it? ie the Dublin shared max available is 190k, enough to buy you a luxury cardboard box on O connell st. If however you could add another 150k from the bank on top of that you may actually be able to get something viable?

joejoem

gerire wrote:

I dont think there was too much wrong with that one last night atleast she wasn't ringing Daddy in Hong Kong for an extra 100k. I found it quite amazing that she got the shared ownership deal within 10 days no waiting lists or anything.

Does anybody know that if you get one of these shared ownership deals can you get a bank "top-up" mortgage to go with it? ie the Dublin shared max available is 190k, enough to buy you a luxury cardboard box on O connell st. If however you could add another 150k from the bank on top of that you may actually be able to get something viable?

No, they wont allow that. Your best bet would be to apply for the affodable homes partnership. By law, developers (building 5 or more houses in one place) have to set aside 20% of the development for affordable housing. This means they sell the property at cost price.

If it is in an expensive area, they will compensate by building a simialar house in a different area. Alot of people have bought through this in the last few years. I have heard of some buying through that scheme where the two girls bought in last weeks show in sandyford.

iguana

base2 wrote:

..Can develop my career better (research) by taking all those global oppurtunities that a home owner has to turn down.

Why would you turn down a job abroad because you own a house. My mortgage payment is £900pm but houses on my street rent out at £1200-1500pm. I could easily rent out the house if I moved and have enough to pay a management company + put money aside to cover problems or rent shortfall if the house was vacant for a couple of months a year. I know more than a few people who have done this. A mortgage does not tie you down, and when you are 50+ and you have it paid off it completely liberates you.

dochasach

FillSpectre wrote:

I don't think that is true anymore in fact I would guess it has not been true for a long time maybe 7 years. The additional expenses outside a mortgage easily make it more expensive to own now. I think a lot of experts suggest renting over buying for many people. Not sure I agree but for some I am sure that must be right.

Yes, the show host even suggested rent as an option for the single mother last night. If it weren't for shared ownership, that would've been the obvious option. He even told her that property can go down and asked if that happened, would she rather be stuck near friends and family or out in the hinterlands. Those comments gave the show a bit more credibility as far as I'm concerned.

I wonder when interest rates and price/rent ratios will get to the point where even someone with 400,000 cash would be better off with the cash in a savings account and paying rent off the interest ;-)

dochasach

iguana wrote:

Why would you turn down a job abroad because you own a house.

A 5% drop would put an average new 100% mortgage holder more than 10,000 in the hole. They can't sell the property unless they can complete the payments or come up with the extra 10,000 cash. So most people would choose to be an "accidental landlord." But...

My mortgage payment is £900pm but houses on my street rent out at £1200-1500pm. I could easily rent out the house if I moved and have enough to pay a management company + put money aside to cover problems or rent shortfall if the house was vacant for a couple of months a year. I know more than a few people who have done this.

Judging by your numbers and use of "£", I suspect you don't live in Dublin's shadow. The numbers just don't work out here. The average new homeowner would be paying 1500E in mortgage but the going rate for rents is more like 1000-1100. Have you looked at myhome.ie/daft or equivalent to see what rentals really going for in your neighborhood? Where I live the new owner-investor would have a shortfall of about 6000/year not including maintenance and management if ARM interest rates don't rise!

A mortgage does not tie you down, and when you are 50+ and you have it paid off it completely liberates you.

No, in hyperinflated markets, renting is a better option for anyone who:

- Thinks their job or their spouse's job may leave ireland in the next 5 years.
- Can't tolerate a 1% rise in ARM rates.
- Can't tolerate a 5% downward correction in house prices.
- Needs a 100%, interest only or other exotic ARM loan.
- Can only afford substandard far flung identical apartments which would be nearly impossible to sell in a downturn.
- Can't save or diversify into any other asset class because the house absorbs nearly all disposable income.
- Relies on > 5% appreciation to justify negative cash flow.
- Doesn't have a permanent right to live in Ireland.
- Values the mobility which may be necessary to follow jobs in a globalized job market.

iguana

dochasach wrote:

Judging by your numbers and use of "£", I suspect you don't live in Dublin's shadow. The numbers just don't work out here. The average new homeowner would be paying 1500E in mortgage but the going rate for rents is more like 1000-1100. Have you looked at myhome.ie/daft or equivalent to see what rentals really going for in your neighborhood? Where I live the new owner-investor would have a shortfall of about 6000/year not including maintenance and management if ARM interest rates don't rise!

I do live in London, but all I said was that buying a house doesn't disqualify you from travelling. Someone not buying a house because they feel their future will involve travelling could be making a mistake. There are always options, and investigation of rental yields is smart. And yes I have looked at rental websites here recently as my partner was recently offered a job abroad. We didn't move as it wasn't the right career choice, but it would have been more than possible if we'd wanted.

That said, I would be extremely cautious about buying in Ireland at the moment. I'm not convinced that prices currently reflect value. But long-term, and in general, buying is better than renting. My dad has an aunt who lived in privately rented accomodation her whole adult life. She's now in her late seventies and paying todays rent on a house, with her pension (state + small private). It leaves her very little to spare. Wheras my gran paid off her house a long time ago and even though she only has a state pension she is much better off.

I would much rather pay the bulk of my salary on a house now, and see those payments fall in real terms over the next 25 years. Eventually totallying absolutely 0 by the time I'm 52.