Moshing = Assault???

gline

whats all this about music getting more agressive?? I dont think that is true at all, loads of new bands coming out all sound the same and not very agressive at all and a lot of bands being going for years are calming down

I agree with what doctorj says that it is just the type of crowd that gigs are attracting these days (younger and havent got a clue how its supposed to be done), if they arent careful they will ruin it for us all as security will just get stricter and stricter at gigs if there are more and more injuries :mad:

It wasn't me!

Obituary released Slowly We Rot seventeen years ago, think of it that way.

Hellrazer

Doctor J wrote:

The moshing at the D.R.I. gig was very, very ****ing hard. ?

Ah the memories!!!

Dathai

They say it at alot of gigs, no moshing etc due to injury and insurance reasons.Id say they'd only get the police if there was serious violence being caused, ie: riots, people getting legs smashed, people stabbed etc.
Moshing is a waste of time imo, I'd prefer to just watch the band and bang my head, couldnt be bothered moshing.
I leave you with this.

No mosh...

senordingdong

Doctor J wrote:

There's an enthusiasm towards the music that just doesn't exist (across the full crowd) in gigs these days,

I understand that but I wasn't saying there was less enthusiasm for music back then though what you're talking about could be explained...chances are that gig was in small venue, yeah? And likely sold out? If it did then I'd expect that everyone there (as is often the case at small sold out gigs) were very keen on the band in question. Making for huge enthusiasm. Ofcourse gigs like that are better...you feel safe knowing that you're with people that are like you, that are purely out for a good time, you feel safe with them watching your back and vice versa. Whereas at a bigger gig, you can't be sure about who is watching your back.

Doctor J wrote:

Metal isn't as new and exciting as it used to be. You can only judge how aggressive something is by what it shares it's time with. When Slayer played Raining Blood here for the first time... let me tell you... that was agressive

But what I mean is that while at a Metallica concert for example, I'd feel no desire to mosh, for a few reasons. My body would certainly move to the music but nothing aggressive, whereas while at a concert of the likes of Machine Head or Sepultura or Slipknot, the very different music, I think, instills something different within the crowd(at least in me anyway). This is certainly not helped by the frontmans encouragment for everyone to 'go ****ing nuts' etc...at the moment, I still feel the change in music has contributed largely to the whole thing.

Doctor J wrote:

The difference as I see it (over almost 20 years of seeing and participating in moshes) is that a lot of people these days haven't a ****ing clue how to behave at gigs and this can be misconstrued as aggression when it's really just ignorance. They seem to think they're supposed to prove how hard they are to their little buddies and think that flailing elbows are cool.

I won't deny that type of stuff for a second, but I won't blame everyone for what a select few do.

senordingdong

gline wrote:

I agree with what doctorj says that it is just the type of crowd that gigs are attracting these days

But what do you think it is that is attracting these people to them? What do you think makes these people act like that...they obviously weren't taught by someone who knows better.

Doctor J

senordingdong wrote:

I understand that but I wasn't saying there was less enthusiasm for music back then though what you're talking about could be explained...chances are that gig was in small venue, yeah? And likely sold out? If it did then I'd expect that everyone there (as is often the case at small sold out gigs) were very keen on the band in question. Making for huge enthusiasm. Ofcourse gigs like that are better...you feel safe knowing that you're with people that are like you, that are purely out for a good time, you feel safe with them watching your back and vice versa. Whereas at a bigger gig, you can't be sure about who is watching your back.

Most of em were in the likes of the Olympic Ballroom, Top Hat and the SFX, they were pretty much the same size, the SFX being the only one left and then there was McGonagles, which was a truly fantastic place to see a gig. A lot of the lethargy, or rather lack of real immense excitement, is that people have so much more access to bands and music. When bands play here now a lot of people know the set list before the first note is played, they've downloaded bootlegs and whatever else. The gig that I remember the most for just plain old going ****ing mental was the Slayer/Nuclear Assault one, my second real gig. ****ing Slayer touring South Of Heaven and Nuclear Assault touring Survive (check that one out, trust me ) - there was a huge pit just for Ride The Lightning over the PA before the gig even started. When Nuclear Assault came on, no-one knew what to expect and the place just ****ing exploded. Here was Nuclear Assult in our town and Slayer, ****ing Slayer, are on later! When Slayer came on, with the South Of Heaven intro playing over the PA, like they still do now but at the end of their set, it was just like electricity running through everyone's body. Not having such exposure to the bands just made their appearance so much more exciting, each band that came were special because there just wasn't anywhere near as many gigs here as there is now.

senordingdong wrote:

But what I mean is that while at a Metallica concert for example, I'd feel no desire to mosh, for a few reasons. My body would certainly move to the music but nothing aggressive, whereas while at a concert of the likes of Machine Head or Sepultura or Slipknot, the very different music, I think, instills something different within the crowd(at least in me anyway). This is certainly not helped by the frontmans encouragment for everyone to 'go ****ing nuts' etc...at the moment, I still feel the change in music has contributed largely to the whole thing.

Metallica in 1988 was a different thing altogether and I'd imagine the 86 gig was pretty special too. They were a truly revolutionary band back then. Lars could drum too There was plenty of energy expelled at that. Sepultura played here back then too, I'll have you know, in 89 I think it was, touring Beneath The Remains. Great gig. Part of the charm I suppose was that the whole thing wasn't as choreographed as it is with a lot of bands today, but you really didn't know what to expect when a band came over and that helped, people got genuinely excited on a grander scale, it seems. I'm not saying people don't get into gigs today, not at all, just that the atmosphere has changed. I'll mp3 some of that Megadeth bootleg from my first gig in 88, the bits Megadeth aren't on so it's legit, just to give you a taster of the atmosphere.

It's a shame some people go out intentionally to get on other peoples tits at gigs, it's not a new thing though, it's always happened, it's just sad that everybody else seems to be reluctantly used to the ****ehawkery. Metal is still a largely underground movement, it'd be nice if people bonded together more (if not very Metal)

senordingdong

Ok, but that doesn't really discount my point.

Doctor J

Consider how aggressive Sepultura sounded in relation to their peers in 1989

gline

senordingdong wrote:

But what do you think it is that is attracting these people to them? What do you think makes these people act like that...they obviously weren't taught by someone who knows better.

what is attracting these people? basically metal has become more mainstream. and it is now "cool" to listen to it. So basically more people go to metal gigs that havent got a clue how to act and think it is just about going apes**t without regard for anyone else, which is totally wrong.

LightofDarkness

I think J makes a good point about the music not really being more aggressive, or heavier. Sure it sounds heavier, the guitar are all detuned to B and C (even G) but it's the riffs that make something heavy. If your riff isn't heavy, you don't get across a reall feeling of heaviness and aggression, just a fake more, "smoke and mirrors" heavy effect that's all down to the kit used, not the musician. I mean look at Necrophagist, and how heavy they manage to sound heavier than alot of Brutal Death bands, even though the guitars are only tuned to D. It's all down to the riffs and the ability to write a song that can conduct the energy supplied by the riffs. Off topic, yes, but an interesting point which, to me, points clearly to where modern metal has gone wrong.