SF economic policy

darkman2

Hi, would it be fair to say that, criminality along with SFs economic 'policies' are the main concern for Irish voters. IMO their 'policies' are insane

gandalf

Which policies exactly do you not like?

darkman2

gandalf wrote:

Which policies exactly do you not like?

To nationalise the banks and renationalise many companies.

To increase corporate taxes and Capital gains tax which the economy depends on to rediculously high levels which would suggest the party is economically illiterate.

Equality - we all want equality but not the type they envisage, rather most wont equal opportunity to better themselves. The equality they asspire to would leave most equal, but equal in poverty. Communist type policies.

In essence these three policies alone would devestate the economy.

Sponge Bob

darkman2 wrote:

To nationalise the banks and renationalise many companies.

splendid idea !

To increase corporate taxes and Capital gains tax which the economy depends on to rediculously high levels which would suggest the party is economically illiterate.

to less than they were in 1997 all the same, must shoot shome blueshirts I must and them bloody sticks !!!!

Equality - we all want equality but not the type they envisage, rather most wont equal opportunity to better themselves. The equality they asspire to would leave most equal, but equal in poverty. Communist type policies.

and you would be a downtrodden lil inner chitty Jung FFer like you are now which is equal ....in a way .

In essence these three policies alone would devestate the economy.

No, but they would rule out cushty jobbies for Jung FF jobsworths who can establish that 90% of the electoral register is WRONG , shout it all over the papers on a Tuesday morning and cannot even start to fix it.....bloody jobsworths.

Go forth unto the bowels of Pearse Street and register skangers my little friend or read the posting guidelines which require one to have an opionion BEFORE posting !!!!!!!!!!!

Diorraing

SF have an economic policy :eek: . Thats news to me. The thing about SF is they like to sound radical. IMO if they were to go into gov with FF or Labout they would be so grateful of the chance to be in gov that they wouldn't press these ludicrous policies. I wouldn't worry about them, they seem to be drifting towards the right more. I think (not sure) that they scrapped the nationalising the banks idea

TheVan

Unfortunately Sponge Bob you fail to take the modern world into account. I'm sure it would be nice if this was the 1960s again but it's not....

Renationalising companies would be a disaster. Afaik it would also be contrary to EU law so that is just rubbish from SF.

Sponge Bob wrote:

to less than they were in 1997 all the same, must shoot shome blueshirts I must and them bloody sticks

I'd reply but that makes no sense. However I do support darkman2 on this one. Low corporate taxes are a huge reason why our economy is doing so well.

And yes, I think if you talk to any economist they would agree that such policies would devestate the economy.

SF don't really have an economic policy. To attach the word "policy" to it is just wrong. They haven't an economic brain between them

A Dub in Glasgo

SF are in the process of re-aligning their policies to suit a possible coalition with FF.

jank

Perhaps we can ask our own Sinn Fein board :rolleyes:

BuffyBot

SF are in the process of re-aligning their policies to suit a possible coalition with FF.

Oooh, slip-slidy principles. I'm surprised.


Oh wait, I'm not.

Sponge Bob

TheVan wrote:

Renationalising companies would be a disaster.

as in eircom, surely not !!!

And yes, I think if you talk to any economist they would agree that such policies would devestate the economy.

devastate is the word and no !

SF don't really have an economic policy. To attach the word "policy" to it is just wrong. They haven't an economic brain between them

I fully agree you know But a n00b posting with no opinion in the post is even worse than a SF economist.

the_syco

Sponge Bob wrote:

But a n00b posting with no opinion in the post is even worse than a SF economist.

Attack the post, not the poster, etc, etc.

=-=

Sponge Bob wrote:

and you would be a downtrodden lil inner chitty Jung FFer like you are now which is equal ....in a way .

Erm, wtf? The bit I put in bold: any chance of telling me what thats meant to mean, in english?

darkman2

Sponge Bob wrote:

as in eircom, surely not !!!


devastate is the word and no !


I fully agree you know But a n00b posting with no opinion in the post is even worse than a SF economist.

I could be an economist for all you know or someone with genuine concerns about this parties 'policies' so dont insult my intelligence. Now explain clearly the benefits of having these ideas implemented since you have such disregard for someone posting a genuine and serious question.

TheVan

Sponge Bob wrote:

as in eircom, surely not !!!

It was the initial flotation that was botched. Eircom in its current guise was floated at €1.55 a share and is now at €2.16.

Also profits in February for the three months to 31 December 2005 were €24 million.....not a failure at all

....so yes, eircom

Sponge Bob

darkman2 wrote:

I could be an economist for all you know

Which explains why your original post was question seeing as you offered no constructive or detailed opinion within that post . You are most certainly not an economist IMHO but a Jung FF'er I would say .

Were you an economist you would have offered a detailed opinion .....nay a critique even ????

finnpark

I have to say I really enjoy these threads.

Theres no point starting a thread since the people on the thread are obviously politically affiliated to one or other party. Im not sure what anyone is trying to acheive - do you really think you can swing voters on this forum by a dirty smear campaign? The fact is that 99% of people who visit the political forum are already politically affiliated and it doesn't really matter what you post.

At the end of the day all politicans in Ireland are a bunch of crooks, even those who were honest are no longer honest. They make a joke out of the voters and out of the yes men who attend their meetings, canvass for them etc. You will learn soon enough, politics is for criminals or want to be criminals and you are better off out.;) .

murphaph

BuffyBot wrote:

Oooh, slip-slidy principles. I'm surprised.


Oh wait, I'm not.

Indeed. They are supposed to be a marxist party. If they are happily 'realigning' (changing) their policies to suit FF then surely their promises are worthless (even more than they were before). They have no 'morals', same as any party really. All these parties are equally power hungry (look at the 'never never never' DUP saying 'maybe' up north) once they sniff a bit of it.

In a way I'm pleased that SF have slipped like this and basically admitted that they will go into government with just about anyone as it single handedly destroys their facade of a 'party for the poor' etc. etc. Once low income people (their main electoral targets) realise that SF are 'just the same' they'll disappear off the polictical radar faster than democratic left.

If SF were just as corrupt as the rest of 'em I wouldn't actually mind them. It's that they have much more distasteful friends than bob the corrupting builder in bob the bank robber or niall the knee capper. Dodgy dodgy links, far worse than established parties links to big business IMO. Some may disagree and that's fair enough.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote:

Which explains why your original post was question seeing as you offered no constructive or detailed opinion within that post . You are most certainly not an economist IMHO but a Jung FF'er I would say .

Were you an economist you would have offered a detailed opinion .....nay a critique even ????

Sponge Bob-have you ever read the charter of this board,you are coming very close to another ban.
If you cross the line again, the ban will be a long one.
In case you havent seen the bit in the charter about discussing moderation in threads here,I'll tell you now that if you want to discuss this further take it to pm.

finnpark

finnpark wrote:

I have to say I really enjoy these threads.

Theres no point starting a thread since the people on the thread are obviously politically affiliated to one or other party. Im not sure what anyone is trying to acheive - do you really think you can swing voters on this forum by a dirty smear campaign? The fact is that 99% of people who visit the political forum are already politically affiliated and it doesn't really matter what you post.

Do not tell posters here whether they should post or not.
All posters are welcome as long as they dont troll and keep to the spirit of the charter.

At the end of the day all politicans in Ireland are a bunch of crooks, even those who were honest are no longer honest. They make a joke out of the voters and out of the yes men who attend their meetings, canvass for them etc. You will learn soon enough, politics is for criminals or want to be criminals and you are better off out.;) .

Sweeping statement no 577321...

darkman2

SF are obviously playing to the working class constituency but I cant see them breaking into the middle classes with their 'policies'. There agenda is admirable but so to are the agendas of every other party and SF association with a brutal form of criminality is the straw that breaks the camels back for most ppl IMO. Even if they didnt have an economic braincell between them it would be very obviously that some of the 'policies' cannot be implemented.

Sponge Bob

darkman2 wrote:

SF are obviously playing to the working class constituency but I cant see them breaking into the middle classes with their 'policies'. There agenda is admirable but so to are the agendas of every other party

What does that mean trí Bhéarla ????? Youaccused them of insanity yesterday in your OP and now if I am to believe you you admire them today ??????

Time Magazine

finnpark wrote:

At the end of the day all politicans in Ireland are a bunch of crooks, even those who were honest are no longer honest. They make a joke out of the voters and out of the yes men who attend their meetings, canvass for them etc. You will learn soon enough, politics is for criminals or want to be criminals and you are better off out.;) .

Ugh, it's that sort of sh*te that really irritates me.

No, not all politicians are crooks. Stop being a childish, ignorant twat.

Sponge Bob wrote:

Which explains why your original post was question seeing as you offered no constructive or detailed opinion within that post

That makes no sense; perhaps you also draft Sinn Féin economic ramblings. Because that's all they are. They do not have any economic policy documents openly available. They say they want to foster small business and stupid shi*tty rhetoric like that (is there anyone who does not want to foster small business?) but refuse to mention anything with even a hint of detail. A SF supporter said to me yesterday that there's no point in Opposition parties having economic policies. If that's the level of intelligence you're dealing with, I steal from DeVore, I weep for our children.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, SF do not have justifiable policies. They base everything they say on what they see as wrong and not how to rectify it. Take the Rossport 5 issue. Now that was a serious issue with tragic circumstances. SF hopped on the bandwagon and pretended to support them. If SF were in government what would they do? Seriously, like? Would they order the release of the men? No, wait a second... isn't that a bad thing for the government to be able to do? Hang on another second, isn't the seperation of powers protected in the Constitution? So SF would contravene the Constitution?

The Shinners are not a political party. They're a f*cking dirty joke who know deep down that their militant wing hindered the re-unification of the six counties and that they'll have to change to fit in with the Irish political spectrum. But isn't their slogan "Don't be a sheep - join SF"? (Aside from "Votáil SF", despite there being no 'v' in the Irish language.) Don't sheep follow the crowd?

If you want to talk about crooks, look for "SF" on election posters.

Sponge Bob

Angry Banana wrote:

That makes no sense; perhaps you also draft Sinn Féin economic ramblings. Because that's all they are. They do not have any economic policy documents openly available.

not even a bit of a one ? have you really really looked ???

They say they want to foster small business and stupid shi*tty rhetoric like that (is there anyone who does not want to foster small business?) but refuse to mention anything with even a hint of detail.

but is pat rabitte any more detailed ???

A SF supporter said to me yesterday that there's no point in Opposition parties having economic policies.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, SF do not have justifiable policies.

you said that none were openly available a second ago , did yoru mate the shinner tell you what the were in secret like, can you maybe tell us a bit about them ??? please please do.
as in They base everything they say on what they see as wrong and not how to rectify it. Take the Rossport 5 issue. Now that was a serious issue with tragic circumstances. [/QUOTE]
thats not economic policy though it is a SF 'prisoner campaign' and shell boycott mashup , and its not tragic IMO because the pipeline has not exploded yet

SF hopped on the bandwagon and pretended to support
them.

and they do support them, you see them picketing Shell stations and holding meetings on the Rossport 5 and postering and agitpropping. I call that support but its not an economic policy or a counter economic policy

If SF were in government what would they do? Seriously, like? Would they order the release of the men? No, wait a second... isn't that a bad thing for the government to be able to do? Hang on another second, isn't the seperation of powers protected in the Constitution? So SF would contravene the Constitution?

SF did not get where they are today by kow towing to constitutional niceties ....or did they ????

The Shinners are not a political party. They're a f*cking dirty joke who know deep down that their militant wing hindered the re-unification of the six counties and that they'll have to change to fit in with the Irish political spectrum.

the 6 counties are as unified now as they were in 1969 , before the formation of the provisional IRA. What "re-unification of the six counties" do you have in mind, is it about opening all the railways again ???

But isn't their slogan "Don't be a sheep - join SF"? (Aside from "Votáil SF", despite there being no 'v' in the Irish language.) Don't sheep follow the crowd?

ohh thats angry, sheep do not follow crowds, they follow the Ram and the letter v entered the Irish language in the 1970s .

If you want to talk about crooks, look for "SF" on election posters.

all of them, even the cute young wans , there must be a single honest shinner somewhere......maybe with an economic policy in the trousers as well that he could pull out and show you. ????

TheVan

Angry Banana wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, SF do not have justifiable policies. They base everything they say on what they see as wrong and not how to rectify it.

I think that sums the Sinn Féin economic policy up....

they are a reactionary party, they know what they don't like and they don't think about the consequences or the feasability of their actions. IMO it is an unsustainable policy, a policy designed for an opposition but which cannot work for a government.

Sinn Féin needs to find a set of core principles that it believes in. These need to be well thought out, guiding principles which will be adhered to....a constitution of economic policy if you will. They need to provide an economic vision rather than just policies scattered here and there which don't amount up to a full policy document.
Whether one agrees with the economic plan it or not, at least it will be a step in the right direction.

Sponge Bob

TheVan wrote:

They are a reactionary party, they know what they don't like and they don't think about the consequences or the feasability of their actions. IMO it is an unsustainable policy, a policy designed for an opposition but which cannot work for a government.

Thats what they are , like DL in the early 1990s and the Workers Party through the 1980s and Aontacht Éireann in the 1970s and smaller political fragments before them again .

By the time they become anything else they will find their heels being chewed at by the RSF or CSF or the 32county something or other and will end up where Pat Rabbitte did some 20 years after he was an activist for the political wing of the Official IRA .

That 20 year sanitisation process did not start with the GFA or earlier than that . Until then it matters little what , if any , policies they have.

Angry Banana

Angry Banana wrote:

Stop being a childish, ignorant twat.

3 week ban

darkman2

Sponge Bob wrote:

What does that mean trí Bhéarla ????? Youaccused them of insanity yesterday in your OP and now if I am to believe you you admire them today ??????

Eh no I didnt say I admired them. I said their agenda is admirable, as in the end product...i.e we'd all be rich, equal and happy. The only problem is having the ludicrous policies implemented would acheive the opposite. That is, of course, just my opinion. If you look at the quality of SF TDs in the Dail, it leaves alot to be desired. They are certainly out of their depth. Indeed O'Snodaighs wife was arrested for a domestic disturbance (was it last year) and said to the gaurd doing his job something to the effect of: you will regret the day you arrested a SF TDs wife! Says it all really and I certainly wont be voting for them.

ISAW

Sponge Bob wrote:

splendid idea !

read the posting guidelines which require one to have an opionion BEFORE posting !!!!!!!!!!!

Where in the posting guidelines does it say that?

ISAW

finnpark wrote:

I have to say I really enjoy these threads.

Theres no point starting a thread since the people on the thread are obviously politically affiliated to one or other party. Im not sure what anyone is trying to acheive - do you really think you can swing voters on this forum by a dirty smear campaign? The fact is that 99% of people who visit the political forum are already politically affiliated and it doesn't really matter what you post.

At the end of the day all politicans in Ireland are a bunch of crooks, even those who were honest are no longer honest. They make a joke out of the voters and out of the yes men who attend their meetings, canvass for them etc. You will learn soon enough, politics is for criminals or want to be criminals and you are better off out.;) .

This is a silly comment. If it is really true that all people are politically aligned there would be no point in elections would there? Indeed there would be no point in having the Dail!
It is certain that people are in oparties in the Dail and therefore already aligned even more so than any discussion forum. The idea is that none of them will ever change an opinion and all of them will always subscribe to the party line. It smacks of the opinion that all large parties are made up of cloned sheep.

Oddyly the opposite is more true. It is ususlly in smaller parties that dissent is not tolerated and hirearchical systems prevent it all the more. In large partioies there is debate but usually when a decision is made they all stick by it and dont cause splits. Such is the nature of party politicval government.

ISAW

Sponge Bob wrote:

not even a bit of a one ? have you really really looked ???

It isnt for the detractors to do so! It is for those making the claims to support them. surely SF claim to have economic policies??? then it is for them to produce them and support them. Likewise for anyone like you claiming that they have policies but hiding behind humour whwn asked to support the claim that they actually do have policies. I mean here policies supported by data or other evidence and not aspirations or other throwaway phrases.

It isnt for others to show how they disagree with what does not exist or is not supported with evidence. Nest I suppose you will want people to support their comments that SF policy on unicorns diets has no backup by actually producing a unicorn and showing how their unicorn would not eat what SF recommend!

but is pat rabitte any more detailed ???

Whether anyone else e.g. Labour has a policy or not is not at issue. Indeed Labour may not have any detailed Tax policy. I havent seen theirs either! They seem to be stuck since if you want to pay people more and have more public service you either 1. Borrow money 2. Tax people more or 3. Have cutbacks elsewhere. Labour hinted at 1. with no costings but wont commit to 2 or 3. But again if you want to start a thread on Labour economic policies then you are free to do so. This thread is about SF costed economic policies if they exist

you said that none were openly available a second ago , did yoru mate the shinner tell you what the were in secret like, can you maybe tell us a bit about them ??? please please do.

In several disopoarate policy documents e.g. SF submission on the constitution SF have mentioned the idea of e.g. abolishing limited companies nationalisation etc. The problem is two fold 1. these disparate economic elements are not all in one doccument and people have to look for them instead of SF producing them 2. the policies are not costed

thats not economic policy though it is a SF 'prisoner campaign' and shell boycott mashup , and its not tragic IMO because the pipeline has not exploded yet

Which displays two elements of a mindset

1. always oppose anything multinationals do. Next the RNLI (they do have "Royal" in the title so lets oppose that as well) Texaco Schools Art competition will be boycotted I suppose?

2. REact to tragedies AFTER that happen instead of planning to prevent them.

and they do support them, you see them picketing Shell stations and holding meetings on the Rossport 5 and postering and agitpropping. I call that support but its not an economic policy or a counter economic policy

It IS linked to an economic policy that Trans National Corporations are by their nature explotative and evil. Statoil by the way is a NATIONALISED company!

the 6 counties are as unified now as they were in 1969 , before the formation of the provisional IRA. What "re-unification of the six counties" do you have in mind, is it about opening all the railways again ???

all of them, even the cute young wans , there must be a single honest shinner somewhere......maybe with an economic policy in the trousers as well that he could pull out and show you. ????

Again supporting the Idea that SF have no economic policies on record. But
1. They do! they are not in a single economic policy doccument though and
2. They are not costed.

Hobbes

I heard on the radio the other day about SF policy regarding the health service. It went something along the lines of ... (and feel free to correct me).

"Everyone will be given free medical and we will do away with private care completly. We have no idea how much this is going to cost or how to fund it but this is something we plan to do".

Sponge Bob

Hobbes wrote:

"Everyone will be given free medical and we will do away with private care completly. We have no idea how much this is going to cost or how to fund it but this is something we plan to do".

Thats sounds right Hobbes , I heard more or less the same thing in the past. Its an economic policy too because it has an economic cost , albeit a risible one.

You can cost it on top of existing health costs by subtracting Mary Harneys budget from (all health spending in Ireland (as % of GDP) in € )

I would think that it would cost about €5Bn a year on top of the existing health budget , according to my trusty but cluttered envelope .