Vel Satis bargain

BrianD3

I see Newlands Renault are selling a 06 Vel Satis 2.0 with 1.5k for 33.5k. The Vel Satis has recently ceased production in RHD form but the list price of this would have been around 45k. So 33.5 seems like a bargain for a big luxurious car that's a few months old and barely run in.
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=411020

I know the car is not to everyone's taste and would likely be hard to sell on but still.

secret_squirrel

The fugly-est car in the most highly depreciating sector of the market.

You'd have to be insane.

KTRIC

The Vel Satis makes baby Jesus cry

colm_mcm

It'll never be cheap enough. that vertical depreciation will continue.

bazz26

In another 12 months you could probably buy it even cheaper for around €22k.

colm_mcm

yup. Renault factored huge margins into those yokes. high retail price enabled them to give v.high trade ins to tempt buyers from BMWs etc. Once a demo discount of a few grand from Renault has been recieved, the cost price gets closer to that €33,500. they still have to be losing money though.

pburns

No way!
I might be tempted to take a risk on a 3 year old diesel Citroen C6 in a few years tho'...
Love that car...for some reason...

colm_mcm

that's providing someone buys a C6

Guy:Incognito

I think they are a lovely car. You also wont find a more comfortable car. After all its the inside thats going to be effecting you. Like the safrane before ( I'm on my 2nd one, love them) peopel wont spend 50k on a Renault, which I think is a shame as they are a crackign car.


It's a bit like Alfa, lots of people giving out, saying they fall apart and are crap. These are the people who've never owned/driven one for any length of time. 4 people in my family have had Renaults, one'e had a load going back donkeys years. I've had 3 Renaults. All these cars were trouble free.

I personally dont buy cars with any thaught to selling on. I buy what I like not what I think someone else might like in a few years. That has served me well as I've never regraetted any of the cars I've owned.

colm_mcm

are you trying to say that Renaults don't break down and don't give lots of niggling problems, contrary to many surveys?

BrianD3

Stekelly wrote:

I personally dont buy cars with any thaught to selling on. I buy what I like not what I think someone else might like in a few years. That has served me well as I've never regraetted any of the cars I've owned.

Good outlook! Anyway I think the depreciation factor on cars like the Vel Satis is overstated. For what I can see, all new expensive cars lose a lot of value. None of these cars are "investments", instead they all eat up money in various ways. Spend 60k on a new 5 series and maybe it'll be worth 40k after x number of years. Spend 33 k on a Vel Satis and maybe it'll fetch 13k after the same period. Both cars have then lost the same amount even if the percentage depreciation on the Vel Satis is higher, it was cheaper in the first place.

Also if people want to really talk about depreciation then think about cars like 7 series, XJ Jags, Range Rovers etc. The actual depreciation on a Vel Satis pales into insignifcance compared to one of those.

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote:

are you trying to say that Renaults don't break down and don't give lots of niggling problems, contrary to many surveys?

Well none of mine or my familys have.

People are always on here saying the same about te 156 yet all the owners seem happy.

junkyard

I think anyone who thinks Renaults are a good bet to buy are just loyal to the brand or just having a laugh. Anyone who knows anything about cars knows that Renault, Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot and a few other brands like them are third rate products and either can only afford these types of cars or are happy to drive a run of the mill car. I'm not being a car snob here but anyone can see from past performances by these manufacturers that they have a history of delivering poor quality products time and time again.

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

I think anyone who thinks Renaults are a good bet to buy are just loyal to the brand or just having a laugh. Anyone who knows anything about cars knows that Renault, Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot and a few other brands like them are third rate products and either can only afford these types of cars or are happy to drive a run of the mill car. I'm not being a car snob here but anyone can see from past performances by these manufacturers that they have a history of delivering poor quality products time and time again.

Well I bought again having come from buying a new clio that I mistreated yet never gave a seconds trouble. So until one Renault even so much as develops a small niggly fault, I have no reason to doubt them. The amount of them on the roads has to mean that theres a good few people in the same boat as me. Honestjohn and parkers dont have an major negatives either.

colm_mcm

I know for a fact that French cars are troublesome.
Honest John's views aren't exactly hard facts. they're views.

Take something like the What Car reliability study which studied two years worth of warranty claims for more than 31,000 cars.

Renault came 25th out of 30 manufacturers. beating Alfa Romeo, Rover, Audi, Saab, and Land Rover.



Add to that, the JD Power customer satisfaction survey. All renaults are in the bottom half



These are the hard facts.

crosstownk

Stekelly wrote:

Well I bought again having come from buying a new clio that I mistreated yet never gave a seconds trouble. So until one Renault even so much as develops a small niggly fault, I have no reason to doubt them. The amount of them on the roads has to mean that theres a good few people in the same boat as me. Honestjohn and parkers dont have an major negatives either.

Not being smart here but - you should consider yourself lucky you haven't had problems. I have a lot of Renaults on fleet and every single one of them has more than a fair share of problems. Then when it's time to sell most people, including traders, run a mile. So they get sold for buttons - often at a loss. As a result, if you try to lease a Renault you will be confronted with excessive premiums due to its poor write down value.

On the other hand it could be me that is very unlucky - but I doubt it. While they are nice cars to drive and quite comfortable too, the only thing consistent with Renault for the last few years has been their unreliability.

A Vel-Satis would be a cool car to drive. I think the current Renault range look quite different and fresh but their reliability factor would prevent me from even considering one for purchase.

junkyard

I'm sorry Stekelly but I couldn't agree with you as regards Renaults, I've towed so many of them over the years I've become quite familiar with their weaknesses which are many. I sold a new Senic in 02 to a customer and the thing broke down six times in the first six months with the same problem and Renault's solution was to replace the faulty part with another part which failed each time. The design of the part was the problem and Renault just replaced the part until it went out of warranty. Another customer who I tow on a fairly regular basis has a Megane that dies on the road and Renault don't know how to fix it, they just put the car on the diagnostic machine reset the computer and the car starts and drives for another month or two. I could go on but if your happy with your choice of car, the best of luck with it but my point is that I don't think Renault's are a quality car that's all.

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote:

I know for a fact that French cars are troublesome.
Honest John's views aren't exactly hard facts. they're views.

Take something like the What Car reliability study which studied two years worth of warranty claims for more than 31,000 cars.

Renault came 25th out of 30 manufacturers. beating Alfa Romeo, Rover, Audi, Saab, and Land Rover.



These are the hard facts.

Figures wise , its not that far off Ford and BMW. Plu syou had Peugot in your list, does that not then mean that Ford and BMW are unreliable ****boxes aswell?

TBH, small things going wrong and getting fixed under warranty would'nt bother me, thats what you get a warranty for. Unless theres a breakdown of the faults , they could all be niggly little things whereas say, Volvo could be all engines giving out.( I plucked volvo and the fault out of my head, just making a point) I'd rather 40 heating unit faults to 1 engine replacement, altho to be honest if its fixed for free, it doesnt really matter.

colm_mcm

Is this supposed to make Renault drivers feel better? 5th worst out of 30 cars, but at least BMW get lots of warranty claims too! The warranty on a Renault can't match the 3 years given by Japanese manufacturers either. Everyone in the motor trade accepts that French cars are troublesome.

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote:

Is this supposed to make Renault drivers feel better? 5th worst out of 30 cars, but at least BMW get lots of warranty claims too! The warranty on a Renault can't match the 3 years given by Japanese manufacturers either. Everyone in the motor trade accepts that French cars are troublesome.

I was making the point that you sadi that Renault peuget etc are troublesome. But Peugot outperformed BMW, does that not make them troublesome aswell? Are BMW drivers driving around thinking " Only 34 of the 100 of us that bought these had problems, but ha, 40 renault owners have problems"?

BMW owners are payign a lot more for their troublesome cars too.

colm_mcm

Stekelly wrote:

TBH, small things going wrong and getting fixed under warranty would'nt bother me, thats what you get a warranty for. Unless theres a breakdown of the faults r.

The average repair time on the Renault faults is about the same as the average repair time on the Honda. but the Renault will break 4 times as often.

junkyard

I'm on my 8th BMW and never ever had any problem with any of them and was always able to sell them and get good money for them.

Guy:Incognito

I'd be willing to be that a lot of teh renault faults are with things like digital climate control and other things that a lot of other cars dont have. If all Renaults were sold with basic manual heaters and no extras , they probably would fare a lot better, but people like their gadgets.

I'm not looking for a big manufacturers war here, I'm just going by my own experiences which have been good. Ive had an accord and a rover 620 (same car) that couldnt touch either of my safranes for comfort or extras (getting back into teh rover from the safrane was like sitting on a chuch pew) plus I dont feel either weathered the high mileage as well as the safrane, but Its quite possible they had much harder lives.


I had a clio form new to 45k miles, trouble free. I have to admit I treated that car very badly, but it never gave any trouble, my mother has since put another 20k trouble free miles on it.

My cpusin has had a 2nd hand 02 clio he bought in 03 trouble free so far. He's a sparks and carries gear, so again it's taken some abuse.

My godfather has driven Renaults for 25 years trouble free.

3 or four neighbours have renaults on the road, none of which have caused any trouble.

So all in all I'm happy with my Renault experiences, and am perfectly happy to continue buying them till they give me a reason not to.

junkyard wrote:

I'm on my 8th BMW and never ever had any problem with any of them and was always able to sell them and get good money for them.

You should have had 2.72 faults by now.

unkel

It probably is good value, but only to the people that would have been interested to buy a (nearly) new Vel Satis in the first place. Or more specifically, people that would buy the car to keep it for a long time. Fingers crossed and maybe with the additional purchase of dealer extended warrantees and they'd be driving a very different and very comfortable barge

junkyard wrote:

I'm on my 8th BMW and never ever had any problem with any of them and was always able to sell them and get good money for them.

Go on and list which ones you've owned

HungryJoey

Stekelly wrote:

I'd be willing to be that a lot of teh renault faults are with things like digital climate control and other things that a lot of other cars dont have. If all Renaults were sold with basic manual heaters and no extras , they probably would fare a lot better, but people like their gadgets.

I'm not looking for a big manufacturers war here, I'm just going by my own experiences which have been good. Ive had an accord and a rover 620 (same car) that couldnt touch either of my safranes for comfort or extras (getting back into teh rover from the safrane was like sitting on a chuch pew) plus I dont feel either weathered the high mileage as well as the safrane, but Its quite possible they had much harder lives.


I had a clio form new to 45k miles, trouble free. I have to admit I treated that car very badly, but it never gave any trouble, my mother has since put another 20k trouble free miles on it.

My cpusin has had a 2nd hand 02 clio he bought in 03 trouble free so far. He's a sparks and carries gear, so again it's taken some abuse.

My godfather has driven Renaults for 25 years trouble free.

3 or four neighbours have renaults on the road, none of which have caused any trouble.

So all in all I'm happy with my Renault experiences, and am perfectly happy to continue buying them till they give me a reason not to.






You should have had 2.72 faults by now.

I have to admit. MY father use to drive a 97' Renault safrane ( Newer model ) Full spec with Leater interior, Climate control, All the bells and whistles. Was the most comftorble car to be in, You just have to get into them to know why. HE had a 2L Petrol which wasn't a bad engine at all, Never 1 mechanical problem and never had one problem with the safrane at all until about 2004ish. The climate control went, But lucky for him he was due to get rid of it. He got one of the new laguna's and to this day I don't think i have been in as comftorble car as that safrane. It really was a nice car and very sound in regards mechanical maintainance.
Just to add his laguna never had one problem either, I dont think there was one thing ever wrong with it, And it had a ll the bells and whistles too..

It really is hit and miss with renault.

Oh.. And we all remember my mother's megane.. She only kept it 5 months she had that many problems with it :rolleyes: So Ach... I dunno.

You really are taking a chance buying a renault and if you're fortunate enough to get a problem free one, You're doing well.

But they are beautiful cars, Its just a pity about their bad reputation and reliability.

Hj

Kermitt

I think it is vey hit and miss. My girlfriends dad's company van - a Renault trafic has broken down 8 times this year - its a 06 van! Renault have admitted they don't know how to fix it. I think that's the more worrying aspect that they can't actually fix the van.

Most of renault's issues are electronic- having taken a few apart fitting phone kits i know that the wiring in french cars makes no sense!

Having said that other car makers have their own share of problems, I've heard of a number of VW's with niggles, though it hasn't stopped me buying wolfsburg's finest. Touch wood no problems. The french cars just don't seem as robust, yousee fewer old french cars on the road than Nissan's, Toyotas or even VW's for that matter.

Henry Ford III

Focus rated ahead of the fabled Golf!;)

BrianD3

I was hoping that this wouldn't turn into a "renaults are junk" thread but i suppose it was inevitable

First of all, I have no faith in Satisfaction Surveys like JD power. they are not a good indication of how good or reliable a car is. They are very subjective and are heavily influened by owner perceptions, expectations, previous experiences etc. They are also affected by the fact that in the UK certain types of cars tend to be bought be certain demographics eg middle aged, middle class, conservative types would tend to buy Toyota Corollas.

As for the What Car repair data posted, how come Skoda are near the top for number of claims with VW further down and Audi near the bottom. Surely all VAG group cars should be at about the same level. The fact that they're not makes me wonder about the accuracy of the rest of the results. PS I have seen reliability survey where Fiat was rated as one of the best manufacturers. Also IIRC in 1992 the German TUV named the Renault 19 as the most reliable European car. I'm not saying these surveys were correct just that surveys can throw up conflicting results so people should take off the blinkers before they proclaim that "all French and Italian cars are crap - FACT!"

unkel

BrianD3 wrote:

I have no faith in Satisfaction Surveys like JD power. they are not a good indication of how good or reliable a car is. They are very subjective and are heavily influened by owner perceptions, expectations, previous experiences etc

Absolutely. Hence overcorrections for the likes of the Skoda Octavia (low owner expectation) and perhaps undercorrections for the likes of the Mercedes E-class (high owner expectation)

BrianD3 wrote:

As for the What Car repair data posted, how come Skoda are near the top for number of claims with VW further down and Audi near the bottom. Surely all VAG group cars should be at about the same level

Yeah spotted that when it was first released. Makes no sense whatsoever. The cars are mechanically nearly identical

Guy:Incognito

unkel wrote:

Yeah spotted that when it was first released. Makes no sense whatsoever. The cars are mechanically nearly identical

Yeah thats why I was saying about renaults large amount of electrical gadgets and the fact that the surveys just list faults and not a breakdown of the faults. Are the skodas not built with cheaper interiors? Maybe this is causing small niggles and electrical faults that bump up the numbers?

BrianD3

I'm just going through the thread to respond to a few points

colm_mcm wrote:

Is this supposed to make Renault drivers feel better? 5th worst out of 30 cars, but at least BMW get lots of warranty claims too! The warranty on a Renault can't match the 3 years given by Japanese manufacturers either.

Well last time I checked the Japanese warranties were limited mileage ones whereas the Renault warranty although a year shorter was unlimited mileage. In my own case, if I had bought a car with a 60,000 mile/3 year warranty the warranty would have run out in about 20 months with the mileage I do

Also in the Vel Satis ad it says that the car has a 3 year warranty. Don't know if this is correct, what the details are etc. However I do remember reading before that the Vel Satis had some sort of extra warranty and breakdown cover compared to othe Renaults.

Finally if we're judging cars based on their warranties then FIAT beats most with its 4 year warranty. If Fiats are the troublesome balls of sh1t that everyone says they are then how are they able to offer this without bankrupting themselves from warranty claims over a 4 year period on every car. If Toyota's are so invincible how come they don't offer a 10 year std warranty or something.