Ques re: house alarm

cubix

Hi,Couple of questions
A mate moved into a new house and his dad got his mate to fit his alarm. I think this guy mainly does Commercial and had a few things to say about new house alarm set ups. He started bying slating Astech alarms saying they were only for DIY'ers and gave more problems than they were worth. But yet are there not a lot of happy customers on here with Astech panels? or would Aritech/HKC be the prefered panel on here.
He also went on to say the fact that house's were prewired with 4 core cable was a waste and should be 6 core, can anyone tell what difference it would make in a privite house. The last thing was that he could not hook up the external bell box to the panel because it was only 4 core cable and the system he has installed(dont know the make but will find out) needs 6 core running from the bell box to the panel. But what ever system it is he was able to wire up all the window/door contacts/pirs in the rest of the house with the 4 core prewired cable. So can anyone tell me why he would need 6core for the bell box or is he taking through his arse. I dont think he is giving the mate the run around as this lad is a friend of the family who (is suppose to be) a fully qualified alarm installer. Is six core cable needed/better suited for Commercial alarms and maybe this is what he is using on the mates house

Can anyone tell me when the builder prewires a standard house with alarm cable is it just one long loop going from window-door-window etc or does each window or door have its own seperate cable running from the window straight back to the panel?



Cheers for reading Cubix

bushy...

Lots of system need 6 core running to the external bellbox,the reasons you may need 6 core around the house would be in the case of PIRs they need 2 wires for 12v , 2 for the alarm loop and 2 for the tamper loop ... = 6 wires

Jnealon

You can get away with 4 core if you use dual end of line but in my opinion it's cutting corners, especially when there is only 4 going out to the bell. With 6 needed for the bell and only 4 going out to it you will need to loose the strobe to make up for the two wires.

From what you are saying it sounds like the house is wired for an astec alarm system, either that or laziness. As the astec (it only uses 2 wires) in an electricians/DIY alarm most companies don't use astec. So by the electrician wiring it for astec he is making sure that he gets all the alarms in the development. This is a very sneaky practice but thankfully it's oly a couple of electricians that do it

cubix

Cheers lads,is the Aritech system also a 2wire alarm?. When you say two wire Jnealon do you mean 2 pair or 2wires. So if worst came to worst and he could not fish down some new 6 core cable without making sh$te of the walls he could use the 4core cable and do away with the strobe in the bell box?. Can anyone else on here tell me if 6core was fitted as standard in their new house(housing estates,not new builds). Bushy when you say 6 core is need for the likes of pir's, I am nearly sure the lad was able to install two pir's even though it was only 4 core but will have to check that

Thanks Cubix

Jnealon

No the aritech is a standard alarm. The astec 2 wire system uses two wires for everything keypad pir bell zones etc.This system is unique to astec and is why it is so pouplar with diy/electrician.
Kingscroft and albany homes were known for wiring for the astec. The electrician they used would got all the alarms on the site. He would run one 6 core wire cable to the bell then continue that wire around all the upstairs windows, then on to the panic button in the master bedroom. Not very nice

fred funk }{

cubix wrote:

Hi,Couple of questions
A mate moved into a new house and his dad got his mate to fit his alarm. I think this guy mainly does Commercial and had a few things to say about new house alarm set ups. He started bying slating Astech alarms saying they were only for DIY'ers and gave more problems than they were worth. But yet are there not a lot of happy customers on here with Astech panels? or would Aritech/HKC be the prefered panel on here.
He also went on to say the fact that house's were prewired with 4 core cable was a waste and should be 6 core, can anyone tell what difference it would make in a privite house. The last thing was that he could not hook up the external bell box to the panel because it was only 4 core cable and the system he has installed(dont know the make but will find out) needs 6 core running from the bell box to the panel. But what ever system it is he was able to wire up all the window/door contacts/pirs in the rest of the house with the 4 core prewired cable. So can anyone tell me why he would need 6core for the bell box or is he taking through his arse. I dont think he is giving the mate the run around as this lad is a friend of the family who (is suppose to be) a fully qualified alarm installer. Is six core cable needed/better suited for Commercial alarms and maybe this is what he is using on the mates house

Can anyone tell me when the builder prewires a standard house with alarm cable is it just one long loop going from window-door-window etc or does each window or door have its own seperate cable running from the window straight back to the panel?



Cheers for reading Cubix

Most new houses are wired differently. It is perfectly normal to wire windows, doors and beams with a four core cable. The bell box probably should be wired with a six but its not the end of the world if its not. Any decent engineer can wire up a six core bell box with only four cables and he should have just got on with it without causes a fuss. I would say that the sparks who wired it didnt do it on purpose and probably picked up the wrong roll of cable.

Regarding the quality of Astec equipment, I have installed hundreds of Astec systems and have found them to be very reliable, Like anything else you can get faulty things from time to time. In fact the Astec Global sensors are the most reliable sensors on the market IMO.

Astec systems are really only designed for domestic or small jobs and serve that purpose well.

To answer your last question, Ideally every detection item on an alarm system should have its own cable and zone but that not really practical or cost effective for most installations. The way most houses are wired is by separating the house into front door, lounge, downstairs back, upstairs front and upstairs back etc. Beams and keypads should have their own cable too.

Most alarm engineers who belittle the astec system do so because they dont like the fact that they are easy to install and dont need as much knowledge of alarms to install thus not needing the experts if you know what i mean.

cubix

Thanks lads for that,JNealon you are spot on as his house is an Albany home. The ones over in Feltrim/Swords,my own house is also four core(six cables coming out at the alarm box) with two of those being six core. Where as my mates is all four core.From what we can tell when we tried to use the old 4core cable going up to the bell box to fish in the new 6core(with out sucsess)it seems to go up into the front bedroom windows and then onto the bell box. Silver Knight its definitly possible to hook up a six core bell box with four core cable?as the alarm guy thinks not!.IT turns out the bell box is a Saab(hkc),what is the extra 2 core need for in this bell box. I thought it was for power but when we took of the cover there was twin+earth present so its not for that. I will probally give the alarm installer a call today so is there anything I can say to him so he might think I know what I am taking about in regards to "Any decent engineer can wire up a six core bell box with only four cables". What if any fuction do you lose if you use 4core on a 6core bell box, or is it easier to get a different bell box?. I am hoping we can sove this otherwise we will have to go down the root of taking off the skirts/lift floorboards and fish some 6 core through.

Thanks Cubix