N7 Naas Road Widening

road_high

Does anybody know when this scheme will finally be finished?

They've turned off the traffic lights at Kill and Johnstown at last thank god,
but when will it all be fully opened?

dmeehan

is it due to be completed before the Ryder Cup in September?

Traffic

All works to be finished by June/July

murphaph

They're really making great progress on it now. All the traffic carrying bridges are finished and there's just one pedestrian bridge to be erected but they've laid the foundations for it. The remainder of the works will consist of surfacing, signage and landscaping. The new bits heading northbound are a pleasure to drive on.

regedit

Hi there,
Moving to Newbridge, Co. Kildare soon si I was wondering what the driving distance is from there to Citywest?
Is it brutal during the morning rush hour?
I am aware that it is particulary bad now because of the works on Naas Road but those are due to be completed soon.
If I left at 08:00, could I expect to be at Citywest Business Campus by 08:45?

Uuuh Patsy

20 mins from Newbridge, tops, but not sure how long it will take to get out of Newbridge itself.Traffic delays only start around Kingswood Interchange at the moment.

regedit

Uuuh Patsy wrote:

20 mins from Newbridge, tops, but not sure how long it will take to get out of Newbridge itself.Traffic delays only start around Kingswood Interchange at the moment.

That's very good. Currently it takes us 50-60 mins from Castleknock (The tollbridge, Mad Cow Roundabout +NLX).

Lennoxschips

Haven't they been at this since the 1990s??

Litcagral

Lennoxschips wrote:

Haven't they been at this since the 1990s??

I think they have been at it since the early 1970s. I don't ever remember a time when there was no roadworks on that road.

murphaph

Lennoxschips wrote:

Haven't they been at this since the 1990s??

There were two phases to this project. Newland's Cross to Rathcoole and now Rathcoole to Naas (which is a much bigger endeavour really).

Lennoxschips

I haven't been on that road since 1998, when I last drove from Dublin airport to Cork. If I ever drive from Dublin to Cork again I'm probably in for a shock! I understand it's all dual carriageway/motorway from Dublin airport to Port Laoise?

murphaph

Lennoxschips wrote:

I haven't been on that road since 1998, when I last drove from Dublin airport to Cork. If I ever drive from Dublin to Cork again I'm probably in for a shock! I understand it's all dual carriageway/motorway from Dublin airport to Port Laoise?

Yeah, and Cashel has a motorway grade bypass and the Fermoy bypass (when complete this year) which ties into the Watergrasshill section takes you all the way into Cork. Of all the works I feel this Naas Rd upgrade is amongst the most impressive from an engineering point of view. They have done a pretty good job of keeping the traffic moving considering they are effectively converting an at grade dual carriageway (built to a very low standard) to a near motorway standard road all the time keeping the road open. They also start construction this year of Mitchelstown-Cashel and Cashel-Culahill, two of the longest stretches of road to be constructed at one time in this country.

bkehoe

Mitchelstown-Cashel is already underway near the Cashel end anyway. There's been a huge amount of work done near Newinn (travel from there on the road to Golden to see it).

murphaph

What sort of work? Is it site clarance and fencing or actual structures you have seen? Cheers for the info!

Lennoxschips

so it sounds like a full cork-dublin motorway isn't too far off

ah, i can see the white elephants already

Fool 5000

Ya . I saw work to the Cork side of Cahir around a month and a half ago.

Chris_533976

Isnt it true tho that with all these upgrades (spur of M8 near Portlaoise, Cashel - cullahill, Mitchestown bypass and Fermoy bypass) you'll still have to travel through Abbeyleix? Or is that just me being daft.

Will all these schemes going on now link Dublin - Cork with DC or Motorway, or is there a little gap gonna be left in the middle?

murphaph

Chris_533976 wrote:

Isnt it true tho that with all these upgrades (spur of M8 near Portlaoise, Cashel - cullahill, Mitchestown bypass and Fermoy bypass) you'll still have to travel through Abbeyleix? Or is that just me being daft.

You're being daft There'll be no Abbeyleix bottleneck.

Chris_533976 wrote:

Will all these schemes going on now link Dublin - Cork with DC or Motorway, or is there a little gap gonna be left in the middle?

It'll be a combination of HQDC (built to motorway standards and probably with 120km/h limit) and full-blown motorway. No gap in the middle.

Chris_533976

Ah ok thanks Thats what I thought but I'd heard somewhere that you'd still have to go through Abbeyleix cos the DCs ended at either side of it. Guess whoever I heard that from was an idiot

nordydan

Chris_533976 wrote:

Ah ok thanks Thats what I thought but I'd heard somewhere that you'd still have to go through Abbeyleix cos the DCs ended at either side of it. Guess whoever I heard that from was an idiot

The portlaiose-cullahill-urlingford scheme will provide the (rather large) bypass of abbeyleix. I think its to start work next year.

Fool 5000

UPDATE FROM NRA ON N8

Please find below information regarding schemes on the N8 as requested.



N8 Cullahill/Cashel
The development of the Dublin to Cork inter-urban road link to motorway/high
quality dual carriageway standard forms part of the Government's strategy for
national primary roads included in the National Development Plan (NDP) 2000-2006
published in November 1999. Consultants (Malone O'Regan/Scott/Wilson) were
appointed to advance the scheme in the summer of 2000. The Constraints Study was
published in January 2001. The Preferred Route was displayed in mid July 2001
and the Route Selection Report was published at the end of 2001. . The CPO/EIS
for the scheme was published on 7th April 2004 and an Oral Hearing was held by
An Bord Pleanála at the beginning of September 2004. The scheme was approved by
An Bord Pleanala on 23rd December 2004. It is anticipated that construction will
commence in Q3/2006 and be completed in 2009.

M7/M8-Portlaoise/Castletown/Portlaoise - Cullahill (including Mountrath Bypass)
Proposals for the above scheme are progressing through the planning stage. The
scope of the scheme is from Portlaoise Bypass to Castletown on the N7 and
Cullahill on the N8.
Ove Arup consultants were appointed at the end of 1999. Following publication of
the Constraints Study, work progressed through the Route Selection Phase with
the Route Selection Report being published towards the end of 2001. The
Motorway Order/Environmental Impact Statement were published in December 2003
and an Oral Hearing held by An Bord Pleanála in April 2004. An Bord Pleanála
confirmed the scheme on 29th October 2004. Tenders were advertised in Q3/2005.
The scheme is being advanced as a Public Private Partnership PPP project. The
scheme length is 40km and the estimated cost is EUR254.574 million (public
funding). The PPP pre-qualification process has recently begun and the
estimated start dated for construction is Q1/2007 with an estimated completion
time of over 3years.

N8 Cashel to Mitchelstown
The Constraints Study and Route Selection reports for this 37km scheme were
published in 2001. The CPO/EIS was published in Q2, 2005 (19th May 2005) and
the Oral Hearing was held by An Bord Pleanála at the end of August last. It was
approved by An Bord Pleanala on 2nd December 2005. The scheme is being advanced
under the ECI (Early Contractor Involvement) Form of Contract, which was
advertised in Q1/2004. The Authority has approved the award of the contract to
Sisk/Roadbridge (SRB) Joint Venture and work is currently underway on the
detailed design of the scheme. It is anticipated that construction will
commence in Q2, 2006.

N8 Watergrasshill - Mitchelstown
2006 allocations are EUR7 million for Watergrasshill - Fermoy, EUR7.5 million
for the Mitchelstown Western Relief Road and EUR1.5 million Mitchelstown -
Fermoy.

Phase 1 Fermoy to Watergrasshill (including Fermoy Bypass)
PCP Consultants were appointed to this scheme in late 1999. The EIS / MO for
Phase 1 was published by Cork County Council in July 2001. The Oral Hearing was
held by ABP on 6th November 2001 and reopened on 24th September 2002 to deal
with issues relating to the Central Interchange. The EIS / MO was confirmed by
ABP on December 30th 2002 with the exclusion of the Central Interchange (on the
N72). Phase 1 is being advanced as a Public Private Partnership project (PPP)
and the tender was advertised in April 2002. Tenders were submitted for
shortlisting on December 13th 2002 and Best and Final Offers (BAFOs) received in
November 2003. The PPP Contract was signed on 21st June 2004. Construction
began immediately and is well under way at present.

Phase 2 Mitchelstown to Fermoy (including N8/N73 Mitchelstown Western Relief
Road)
Work is also progressing on Phase 2. The Preferred Route option has been
finalised and the CPO / EIS for the main N8 route was published in early
September 2005. Construction is expected to start in Q2, 2007 and to be
completed in 2009. The CPO for the Western Relief Road was published in Q4/2003
and an Oral Hearing held by ABP on 29th April 2004. It was approved by An Bord
Pleanála on 21st June 2004. Tenders were submitted on December 17th 2004 and
construction began in Q2/2005 with an 18 month completion period. The contractor
is Roadbridge Ltd. The contract is currently running ahead of schedule.

Lennoxschips

nordydan wrote:

The portlaiose-cullahill-urlingford scheme will provide the (rather large) bypass of abbeyleix. I think its to start work next year.

that looks like less of a bypass and more of a complete new alignment. good to see though that the limerick/cork road will be shared past port laosie, that makes more sense. looking at that map though they'll be kicking themselves that they built the port laoise bypass so close to port laoise itself. it could have dived south a bit earlier.

i must admit i always enjoyed the trip down the N8, and there was usually hardly any traffic on the road. driving up the hill past the rock of cashel was always nice. those were the days... (i'll be sounding like my grandfather soon )

what i'll never understand though is why they didn't just build the Cork - Dublin motorway like this:



You get three roads for the price of one: Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Limerick and Limerick - Cork. So with the money saved it could have been a full M-class road the whole route, with not a roundabout in sight.

The railway engineers of the 19th century understood this.

corktina

i think there might be the odd mountain in the way with that route, but the sentiment is correct.........my preference would be a Cork to Limerick Mway and a Limerick to Dublin Mway.....too late now me thinks....I always travel via Limerick (from North Cork) as it is currently quicker although it is 10 miles further.....


too late as the Fermoy bypass is well under way, the Mitchelstown project is imminent and extensive work on a new alignment is underway south of Cashel to south of Cahir.....

murphaph

corktina wrote:

too late as the Fermoy bypass is well under way, the Mitchelstown project is imminent and extensive work on a new alignment is underway south of Cashel to south of Cahir.....

Not really. The N20 is to be dualled from Mallow to Croom (with possible dualling of the stretch to Mallow, it's been allowed for in the current 2+1 upgrade, you can see the room they've left) so that would be toll free as far as the M7/M8 scheme on mostly D2 with a bit of WS2 and 2+1. That would be pretty good if you lived along that approach to Cork and the northern ring isn't yet built.

corktina

the busiest bit is surely the mallow to Cork bit and the quietest bit is the mallow to Croom.....they should have planned it the other way around....i wonder if the plans for road improvements around mallow will go on the long finger now the Beet Factory is history....

spacetweek

Lennoxschips wrote:

what i'll never understand though is why they didn't just build the Cork - Dublin motorway like this:

People have mentioned this before and I don't really agree. You'd need loads of long access roads coming off this motorway to towns like Durrow, Urlingford, Cashel, etc. I guarantee you within 20 years, you'd be dualling the old N8 anyway just to deal with the local traffic.

You're copying the thinking employed in a country like Britain where motorways didn't follow historic alignments. Over there they were trying to connect really large cities where the bulk of motorway traffic was long distance. Local traffic was relatively u****ortant. Over here the local traffic movements are important as we only have one major city in the Republic. Ireland is not comparable to Britain in this respect.

In any case, in the UK they often ended up having to dual the old road anyway (M1 / A1(M)) so it was pointless.

There is a positive feedback loop at work along roads like the N7 and N8. These roads were designated the through routes because they were the most direct. This designation meant that the towns along them grew faster than elsewhere. However because the towns along them were the biggest in the area, this meant that local traffic between was high, so they had to remain national routes simply because traffic volumes were greatest.

If you built motorways along entirely new routes, that local traffic would still be high along the old routes, and you're back at square 1 having to dual them anyway. May aswell just build alongside.

Victor

corktina wrote:

the busiest bit is surely the mallow to Cork bit and the quietest bit is the mallow to Croom.....they should have planned it the other way around.

Realise they started the Cork-Mallow road about 1980 (36 bends down from about 136 bends).

Lennoxschips

and the famous Blarney motorway was done in the early 1990s

corktina

spacetweek...the M1 was not conceived as a relief road to the A1...the A1 is the Great North Road, a major trunk road heading up the eastern side of the Uk whereas the m1 was a new road linking London and Birmingham....the two biggest cities and therefore worthy of the "1" epithet...

mysterious

corktina wrote:

the busiest bit is surely the mallow to Cork bit and the quietest bit is the mallow to Croom.....they should have planned it the other way around....i wonder if the plans for road improvements around mallow will go on the long finger now the Beet Factory is history....

LOL, traffic at croom is growing at over 10% per annum, from around 9,000 a cuple of years ago to just under 13,000 at present, But i see your point that the Mallow section should be at least dualled from this point to Cork...

mysterious

Lennoxschips wrote:

that looks like less of a bypass and more of a complete new alignment. good to see though that the limerick/cork road will be shared past port laosie, that makes more sense. looking at that map though they'll be kicking themselves that they built the port laoise bypass so close to port laoise itself. it could have dived south a bit earlier.

i must admit i always enjoyed the trip down the N8, and there was usually hardly any traffic on the road. driving up the hill past the rock of cashel was always nice. those were the days... (i'll be sounding like my grandfather soon )

what i'll never understand though is why they didn't just build the Cork - Dublin motorway like this:



You get three roads for the price of one: Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Limerick and Limerick - Cork. So with the money saved it could have been a full M-class road the whole route, with not a roundabout in sight.

The railway engineers of the 19th century understood this.

Not a very good idea, even away from the geological aspect etc. It just wouldn't work, even though Cork Is a bigger city etc, it would be better to have a direct route to Dublin with a spur to Limerick, but why would you want to to do that, Make Limerick travel that extra few miles,,, that's silly

You must not forget Limerick is the Ruler of the N7!!!!!:p
Ahem, You have Clare and Kerry people using this route everyday it's pointless making your way to the spur near tipperary town or thereabouts.

What about the growing populations on the Existing N7 such as Nenagh and Roscrea, both a big market towns, which economy relies on the direct route of the N7 and the new M7/N7


Enough of the rambling, it's rubbish...

mysterious

Does anyone not think? that the Bypasses of the BUSIER TOWNS on either the N7, more noticably the Towns of Abbeyleix and Mountrath,, wel like they now have a intellegent set of traffic lights in the Town of Mountrath, so traffic moves in the town, but for some reason tailbacks are starting to pick up on the hill near the town coming from Portlaois, for no apparent reasons, as there is not always tailbacks coming from the town itself.

Abbeyleix, it just a mess, too many roads exit in and out of the main street.

The narrowest section of route for both of the N7/N8 is in fact Portlaois to mountrath/abbeyleix section, I have not being on the N8 in a while but from what i remember these sections were the most dangerous and narrowest.

With all these super duper roads, which are all getting the light this year or early next year but the sections to these towns will suffer big time, if not already. It's like trying to put a Golf ball into a wine bottle...

Roll on the M7/M8:)

Chris_533976

2009 Gonna have to come back from my new home in Germany just to drive on continuous DC from Cork - Dublin

nordydan

Does anyone who uses the N7 know whether it would be possible to extend the M7 inwards a couple of junctions along the newly upgraded section? Likewise would this be possible on the upgraded N$?

corktina

mysterious indeed....abbeyleix is on the N8 i think.....

Lennoxschips

spacetweek wrote:

People have mentioned this before and I don't really agree. You'd need loads of long access roads coming off this motorway to towns like Durrow, Urlingford, Cashel, etc. I guarantee you within 20 years, you'd be dualling the old N8 anyway just to deal with the local traffic.

You're copying the thinking employed in a country like Britain where motorways didn't follow historic alignments. Over there they were trying to connect really large cities where the bulk of motorway traffic was long distance. Local traffic was relatively u****ortant. Over here the local traffic movements are important as we only have one major city in the Republic. Ireland is not comparable to Britain in this respect.

In any case, in the UK they often ended up having to dual the old road anyway (M1 / A1(M)) so it was pointless.

So what you are saying is that the Irish motorways aren't built to connect large cities, but small little towns. I think, if I'm honest, they're built to keep car driving voters happy. Because there is no logistical case for them.

The A1(M) in England goes to places like Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Newcastle. You can see why they needed to upgrade it. The N8 goes through places like Abbyleix, Cashel and Cahir. These are tiny in comparison. The current single carriageway N8 road will be more than enough for local traffic for many decades to come.

Nevertheless, when it's done in 2009 I'm coming over to Ireland just to drive up and down from Dublin and reminisce about what it was like in the days when there were no bypasses at all at all while admiring the new road.

Does anybody know, will the Cork - Dublin route be completely grade seperated the whole route or will there be roundabouts?

corktina

have to agree there....an M8 is not strictly necessary on traffic numbers....the current M7 is empty pretty much of the time further out than Naas....to extend the M7 all the way to Limerick as well as the M8 all the way to Cork is a bit of a duplication methinks...

nordydan

corktina wrote:

have to agree there....an M8 is not strictly necessary on traffic numbers....the current M7 is empty pretty much of the time further out than Naas....to extend the M7 all the way to Limerick as well as the M8 all the way to Cork is a bit of a duplication methinks...

duplication or future proofing? the latter i reckon and remember the less time tourists spend on commuting the more they will spend on our economy (ie less goes to OPEC). FOr general business thats the same, if our entrepreneurs spend less time in traffic they could spend more time making deals (not just with local TDs). Better to get the main Dublin-centric routes completed now, and to high standard.
Once you get to Naas you will know that you dont have to stop or slow down significantly (bar 2 tolls) until Limerick/Cork respectively. That saves time and stress. Creating dependable journey times is a big bonus and cannot be understated.

mysterious

corktina wrote:

mysterious indeed....abbeyleix is on the N8 i think.....

Really.... nobody doubted that

darkman2

The Naas rd after the upgrade will be the best stretch in the country IMO. Monastary rd is going to det a rather dramatic flyover and Newlands cross is at last flexing the minds of the planners.

Chris_533976

nordydan wrote:

duplication or future proofing? the latter i reckon and remember the less time tourists spend on commuting the more they will spend on our economy (ie less goes to OPEC). FOr general business thats the same, if our entrepreneurs spend less time in traffic they could spend more time making deals (not just with local TDs). Better to get the main Dublin-centric routes completed now, and to high standard.
Once you get to Naas you will know that you dont have to stop or slow down significantly (bar 2 tolls) until Limerick/Cork respectively. That saves time and stress. Creating dependable journey times is a big bonus and cannot be understated.

I think road deaths will actually drop when its done. Driving Cork - Dublin in the dark on a Friday night with all the traffic at 100kmh is terribly dangerous.

corktina

you are so right......lets hope that people arent doing 140kmph though on the new road.....

nordydan

yes indeed, the new road will be a lot safer as well. another good reason for the upgrade. even if they are doing 120kph at least all overtaking manouevres are a hell of a lot safer

corktina

unless youa re ina truck..of course (which I wont be as im being made redundant....)

Victor

nordydan wrote:

Does anyone who uses the N7 know whether it would be possible to extend the M7 inwards a couple of junctions along the newly upgraded section?

What do you mean extend it inwards?

Note the M7/M8 branch will be further west than the current branch.

nordydan

Victor wrote:

What do you mean extend it inwards?

Note the M7/M8 branch will be further west than the current branch.

i meant a reclassification from the N7 up to M7 motorway standard, likewise on the N4

Victor

The M7 & M8 will be extended to the Laois / Tipperary border and then change to N7 & N8.

murphaph

I think Dan is refering to applying motorway orders to the currently being upgraded Naas Rd section of the N7. It isn't going to happen but it should be. We are way to tough on ourselves when it comes to classifying motorways in these islands. The standards are way to high before you can call it a motorway and make it a blue line on a map.

The german Autobahnen (amongst others) can have almost 90 degree entry/exits with extremely short acceleration/deceleration lanes yet we have many full on motorway standard roads which aren't even classified as such, just to appease farmers. This has the potential to damage our economy as foreign investors look at a map and don't realise that all those green lines are in fact of a higher standard than many of the blue lines on continental European maps.

The likes of the N11 would easily meet motorway standards in many continental countries. Ever driven on some italian Autostrada?? Narrow lanes, concrete barriers, twisting countours.......

jmkennedyie

Even if the engineering is motorway quality you also need a viable route for non-motorway traffic (mopeds, cyclists, L drivers etc.)

Chris_533976

It is a pity it will end up as a patchwork of N/M roads here.

But I can see why they do it. A lot of these roads are replacing old roads, and although I'd like to take a tough stance, a farmer has to be able to get from A to B as well. Given the choice it would all be M if I was in charge, but I can see WHY parts are going to be N as well.

murphaph

jmkennedyie wrote:

Even if the engineering is motorway quality you also need a viable route for non-motorway traffic (mopeds, cyclists, L drivers etc.)

Of course, but the likes of the new offline builds will all leave the original route intact and many of the new builds will leave alternate routes. Even the likes of he N1/A1 scheme has an alternate route by Forkill. Really it's only agricultural vehicles we have to worry about as long distance travel by bike and moped is not practical and we can't design our motorway network around L-drivers. Nowhere else does.

The whole thing is a sop to rural Ireland I'm afraid and all virtually all these roads would be motorway on the Continent. Where are the AA and RAC in all this? Why don't they campaign for motorway status to be applied to all these roads??