N7 Naas Road Widening

BrianD

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Someone should tell the motorway companies in south west france then because they use the same downward sloping arrows.

Same standard as on the autostrada in Italy - and by the way it is the local council who are in charge of signs not the NRA, although I agree with you that the NRA should specifiy a national standard for all local authorities to follow.

AFAIK it is against our national standards. Out of curiosity do you find it odd when you are looking at them as you drive? This method is not as 'logical' as the other way around as used elsewhere.

regedit

mobpd wrote:

Now that the main works are complete and we have the 3 lanes each way from Rathcoole to Naas has anyone else noticed the increase in people tootling down the middle or outside lanes and refusing to move over to left when no longer OVERTAKING anything.....
There was a guy sat in middle lane yesterday going much slower than the other lanes and despite me flashing him to move over he hand signaled that i should UNDERTAKE him on the left.....ffs
It seems by opening the 3rd lane we expose loads more people who have no clue what the rules of the road are?

This is interesting when driving in Ireland. You will also see senior citizens driving on the fast lane (say M50) and doing 70 mph. If you try to overtake them they will just saty there and try tio signal that they are driving at the speed limit. M50 is not a road where one can drive madly because of the speed camera's (weell, UK drivers are excluded) but nevertheless, it is my right to drive if I wish 100 mph (which I never did/would) but these drivers do not care about it! I dread the notion that this is happening in the Naas road!
BTW, does anyone have an idea when is it going to open officialy (I presume Bertie will cut the ribbon)!

mysterious

regedit wrote:

This is interesting when driving in Ireland. You will also see senior citizens driving on the fast lane (say M50) and doing 70 mph. If you try to overtake them they will just saty there and try tio signal that they are driving at the speed limit. M50 is not a road where one can drive madly because of the speed camera's (weell, UK drivers are excluded) but nevertheless, it is my right to drive if I wish 100 mph (which I never did/would) but these drivers do not care about it! I dread the notion that this is happening in the Naas road!
BTW, does anyone have an idea when is it going to open officialy (I presume Bertie will cut the ribbon)!

I can already imagine the cauios on this road, one thing the M50 has over the Naas road, less bogmen. You will much more country people travelling up a road that is 6 lanes compared to a slow paced 4 laned M50.. I mean practically all of south leinster and Munster use this road daily, so plenty of bogger's...:D Sorry to make offence. I'm from the country also...

Boggmen will be doing 75.1 in the fast lane alright. and you'll get an idiot doing 50 in the middle lane telling everyone to pass on the inside including trucks "sure there would say - "there's y' is loadss of spasesh"

never mind illegal..

It will take a few years to get used to, alright. though we do have a reasonable amount of Motorways in this country now, that people would get the swing of things, but I still see the odd car when I'm on the Motorway, more often than not, racing in the inside lane and overtaking cars on the right etc and I see idiots doing 70 flat on the fast lane:rolleyes:

Andrew Duffy

I expect to see large numbers of collisions due to someone finishing an overtake in lane 3 returning to lane 2 colliding with someone starting an overtake from lane 1 moving into lane 2 as we get long stretches of three-lane motorway or dual carraigeway. Of course, our rules of the road is still ten years out of date and is rubbish compared to the highway code in the UK anyway. Any replacement should be based on that and Roadcraft, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

D'Peoples Voice

mobpd wrote:

There was a guy sat in middle lane yesterday going much slower than the other lanes and despite me flashing him to move over he hand signaled that i should UNDERTAKE him on the left.....ffs

I undertake regularly, and if I'm ever caught, I'll say "I was driving at the speed limit in my lane, it's not my fault the guy on the right of me was driving at a slower speed than the maximum allowed, and hence I passed him".
Case dismissed your honour, because you can't charge me for driving at the maximum speed limit in my lane REGARDLESS of what's to be right! Now if i had to break the speed limit to undertake, that's a different matter!

spacetweek

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I undertake regularly, and if I'm ever caught, I'll say "I was driving at the speed limit in my lane, it's not my fault the guy on the right of me was driving at a slower speed than the maximum allowed, and hence I passed him".

The scenario you've described is legal. The ROTR say you can undertake if the traffic in the lane to the right is travelling more slowly than you, so long as you are not yourself breaking the speed limit.

spacetweek

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Another thing about Italian motorways, especially the one leading to the Mont Blanc tunnel, they sometimes reduce down to one lane each direction. Couldn't quite get my head around that.

The Mont Blanc Tunnel isn't a motorway, it's not marked as one on any maps. That's why it's only 1 lane each way.

Although it is in fact possible for a motorway to have only 1 lane each way - it's called a 2-lane expressway. They are very unusual in Europe and North America, but common in places like Eastern Europe and Mexico. As traffic rises, you widen to 4 lanes.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote:

I cannot get my head around that fact that there is so many dedications to goffs, poitin still, <snip> Take M4 (I know there are different roads but they have simular traffic movements i.e trunk and commuter and local) they have three interchanges between Kilcock and Leixlip or I think four now?

I find the dedicated entrances annoying too, but the M4 and N7 are totally different. The M4 was a new build and existing properties didn't need to be accomodated, they could just use the old N4 or whatever. The N7 also serves as the local access road between the properties that line it. So it necessarily has to be of a lower standard or else you'll discommode too many businesses and landowners.

Of course, they could just have completed a good quality parallel service road alongside, but that's another story.

mackerski

spacetweek wrote:

The scenario you've described is legal. The ROTR say you can undertake if the traffic in the lane to the right is travelling more slowly than you, so long as you are not yourself breaking the speed limit.

No it isn't and no they don't. Look again.

Dermot

Chris_533976

You dont undertake unless theres a dirty big traffic jam and you have to, or if you're on a slip road.

So if theres a tractor in the middle lane (Motorway, I know, but anyway). DONT undertake it. OVERtake it.

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I undertake regularly, and if I'm ever caught, I'll say "I was driving at the speed limit in my lane, it's not my fault the guy on the right of me was driving at a slower speed than the maximum allowed, and hence I passed him". Case dismissed your honour, because you can't charge me for driving at the maximum speed limit in my lane REGARDLESS of what's to be right! Now if i had to break the speed limit to undertake, that's a different matter!

No, this is only permissable in right / left turn situations or in slow traffic.

DerekP11

Indeed 3 lane dual carraigeways expose the inability of some drivers to understand the concept.

As a regular on the 7, I offer this tip. Use the inner most lane. Its usually empty, as most morons are stuck to the two other lanes as if the inner lane is some kind of HIIIGGGHHHWWWWAAAYYYY TO HELL. Que music, sit back, chill and don't let them enrage you.

Stick to the inner lane folks at 100kph and use the middle lane to overtake the few decent sorts who actually know what they're doing.(watch out for said morons crawling in the middle lane) Them and others doing the same thing in the outer lane, along with those getting pissed off by it, are just passing time until they cause carnage and inevitably die. Personally, I couldn't be bothered to get involved in this juxtaposing.

Out think them. Its safer and less stressful.

D'Peoples Voice

DerekP11 wrote:

Stick to the inner lane folks at 100kph and use the middle lane to overtake the few decent sorts who actually know what they're doing.(watch out for said morons crawling in the middle lane)

Yes but if the guy in the middle lane on the N7 is doing UNDER 100kph, then you have to swing over two lanes to the overtaking lane, to then overtake, then swing back over two lanes to get back into the inner lane.
you would have to do this EVERYtime you meet someone in the middle lane driving below 100kph.
Surely that is more dangerous than continuing straight in your own lane at or below the maximum speed limit.

Ap

spacetweek wrote:

The scenario you've described is legal. The ROTR say you can undertake if the traffic in the lane to the right is travelling more slowly than you, so long as you are not yourself breaking the speed limit.

Wow, scarily wrong. How many people are driving around Ireland with their own interpretations of the ROTR in their heads? Like the ones who believe "It is OK to stop on the hard shoulder if you want to chat on your mobile".

As pointed out, it is not allowed to overtake on the left unless traffic is congested and everyone is crawling along or if it is a seperate lane (with a permanent white line between you).

I have seen German police giving people a heafty fine on the spot for doing it, as it is dangerous.

Happy Bertie

Ap wrote:

Wow, scarily wrong. How many people are driving around Ireland with their own interpretations of the ROTR in their heads? Like the ones who believe "It is OK to stop on the hard shoulder if you want to chat on your mobile".

As pointed out, it is not allowed to overtake on the left unless traffic is congested and everyone is crawling along or if it is a seperate lane (with a permanent white line between you).

I have seen German police giving people a heafty fine on the spot for doing it, as it is dangerous.

The only ROTR that really work are the simple ones that will be understood by the intellectually challenged among us. Here in the States there are signs that state "Slower traffic keep right" (right lane is slow lane in the States), but this is a suggestion not a rule. People here generally find the lane with the fastest moving traffic and it seems to work just fine. It also helps to increase the throughput of the expressways as the urgency to move out of the fast lane decreses weaving manouvers. A quick flash of the lights or tailgating on the fast lane is usually enough to get someone to move from the fast lane. Plus Americans have been driving on expressways/freeways for decades and you encounter far less "slow" drivers. (slow in both the speed sense and intellectual sense) There is something about the farming community in Ireland and their slow driving habits, 3 of my farmer uncles never exceed 40mph. I'm sure the km switch has totally confused them.

PoolDude

Anyhow, When is it opening?

DerekP11

Most of its open.

N7/M7 tie ins are done. Final surfacing and road marking being done between end of M7 and Kill interchange (northbound). Same thing is happening from Johnstown interchange to Naas exit (southbound).

Northbound exit for Naas is getting the final surface dressing and should open very soon, thereby negating the (temporary)need to travel to the Johnstown interchange to enter Naas.

Along the entire route, parts of the hard shoulder are still closed to facilitate fencing works. Link/local roads are still being surfaced. Pedestrian bridges are nearing completion.

Oh yeah. Its only a matter of time before Maverick Cullen is on the honda to come down and open it.

regedit

Happy Bertie wrote:

The only ROTR that really work are the simple ones that will be understood by the intellectually challenged among us. Here in the States there are signs that state "Slower traffic keep right" (right lane is slow lane in the States), but this is a suggestion not a rule. People here generally find the lane with the fastest moving traffic and it seems to work just fine. It also helps to increase the throughput of the expressways as the urgency to move out of the fast lane decreses weaving manouvers. A quick flash of the lights or tailgating on the fast lane is usually enough to get someone to move from the fast lane. Plus Americans have been driving on expressways/freeways for decades and you encounter far less "slow" drivers. (slow in both the speed sense and intellectual sense) There is something about the farming community in Ireland and their slow driving habits, 3 of my farmer uncles never exceed 40mph. I'm sure the km switch has totally confused them.

Most people in Europe, especially the continent, would not consider the Yankees the brightest people on the planet BTW.
Secondly, tailgating is dangerous for at least 12 reasons. Therefore, I would never consider it.
What amazes me here is that people lack the basic courtesy when it comes to driving. There are very polite drivers but the rule should be (seen this in Germany, Austria and many other countries) that if one signals to move out/in, you should reduce the speed and let the vehicle in front of you carry out the maneuver (not endangering the traffic on the lane one is traveling). I do not know what the reason for this type of driving is but I reckon it is to be blamed on the large number of L drivers (once you have road tax and insurance, Gardai will not ask you for a license), the ones who were abolished decades ago and given full licences... and Finlay people from rural communities/farmers who drive seldom on major roads hence become confused with the traffic.

regedit

BTW, I was wondering how long does it take someone to get from Newbridge to Citywest or even the RCR now that the works are almost completed?

BrianD

It would be great if they put big signs up at 5km intervals stating "keep Left unless overtaking - Fine €X Points X"

Even if the penalties weren't enforced it would be educational. Though the dim wits in the NRA would probably put up signage to encourage people to drive in the fast lane as on the M50.

Bards

regedit wrote:

Most people in Europe, especially the continent, would not consider the Yankees the brightest people on the planet BTW.
Secondly, tailgating is dangerous for at least 12 reasons. Therefore, I would never consider it.
What amazes me here is that people lack the basic courtesy when it comes to driving. There are very polite drivers but the rule should be (seen this in Germany, Austria and many other countries) that if one signals to move out/in, you should reduce the speed and let the vehicle in front of you carry out the maneuver (not endangering the traffic on the lane one is traveling). I do not know what the reason for this type of driving is but I reckon it is to be blamed on the large number of L drivers (once you have road tax and insurance, Gardai will not ask you for a license), the ones who were abolished decades ago and given full licences... and Finlay people from rural communities/farmers who drive seldom on major roads hence become confused with the traffic.

Like in the US where vehicles joining the Motorway have right of way and traffic in the merging lane must move over or slow down to let them merge. It is much safer as the cars on the Motorway can see with much more clarity the traffic about to merge as opposed to the merging traffic looking behind for a safe spot to merge.

mackerski

Bards wrote:

Like in the US where vehicles joining the Motorway have right of way and traffic in the merging lane must move over or slow down to let them merge. It is much safer as the cars on the Motorway can see with much more clarity the traffic about to merge as opposed to the merging traffic looking behind for a safe spot to merge.

Where did you see this? It's certainly not the US norm, and it's a really bad idea.

Dermot

Bards

Kentucky.. sister lives there and been there a few times... works really well

JazzyJ

Bards wrote:

Like in the US where vehicles joining the Motorway have right of way and traffic in the merging lane must move over or slow down to let them merge. It is much safer as the cars on the Motorway can see with much more clarity the traffic about to merge as opposed to the merging traffic looking behind for a safe spot to merge.

Not in California - from the California Driver Handbook:

Space To Merge

Enter the freeway at or near the speed of traffic. (Remember that the maximum speed allowed is 65 mph on most freeways.) Do not stop before merging with freeway traffic unless absolutely necessary. Freeway traffic has the right of way.

JazzyJ

Bards wrote:

Kentucky.. sister lives there and been there a few times... works really well

What happens when you've some mope merging at 30mph, you're doing 60 mph in the inside lane and heavy traffic is passing you at 65mph in the outside lane?

Seems like a 'mare to me.

Bards

I believe there are miinimum speed limits... I can only judge by what I have seen and it works very well... much better than what we have here

mackerski

'Tis mad. So instead of yielding once at the point you join the expressway you have to spot every junction you approach and yield at ever single one of them, very likely performing a lane change? Daft.

Dermot

Bards

So can I assume you don't yield/let traffic merge onto motorways as it is... and this traffic must force themselves onto it instead

mackerski

Bards wrote:

So can I assume you don't yield/let traffic merge onto motorways as it is... and this traffic must force themselves onto it instead

Is that for me? I don't yield to merging traffic. I leave an adequate gap in front of me and let the merging traffic look after themselves. Nobody has to force themselves on anybody. The government publishes a brief guide to all this, and a rather longer one in the guise of the Road Traffic Acts.

Dermot

Chris_533976

I really cant see why people dont just use COMMON BLOODY SENSE when letting people in at interchanges.

If its not going to hurt you to let them in, let them in. Be curteous to other drivers, and theres no problem.

Happy Bertie

Bards wrote:

Like in the US where vehicles joining the Motorway have right of way and traffic in the merging lane must move over or slow down to let them merge. It is much safer as the cars on the Motorway can see with much more clarity the traffic about to merge as opposed to the merging traffic looking behind for a safe spot to merge.

In all states in the US the rules state those merging have to yield to those already on the expressway, but in practice those on the expressway normally leave space for those merging especially if the person merging has accelerated up to traffic speed. If people took the yield rules literally there occasionally would be a lot of people coming to a complete stop on the merge lanes causing greater safety and throughput issues. It helps in the US that the average car has an engine torque of at least 210 lb.ft (279Nm) where as in Ireland the average torque is probably below 90 lb.ft (119Nm) especially when accelerating on the merge ramp. The horsepower figure is less important because people would need to spin the sh*t out of their engine to get any decent acceleration. In addition with manual transmissions you get some eejits in Ireland trying to accelerate in 5th gear (they think it's the fast gear..duh)

There is a lot of political correctness in the ROTR everywhere in the world. This is most obvious in speed limit setting. In Illinois where I live they the speed limit is adjusted in a very consistant method according to the road characteristics. To accomplish this there are 9 speed limits used on non expressway roads - 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55 mph. They are well thought out for the conditions, junctions, built up areas, road radius of curvature, etc. In Ireland it seems to be a one size fits all i.e. the limit doesn't change for bends on the road, or if road junctions are ahead.
Is it really that hard to reduce the speed limit on bends and increase it on straight sections with few junctions and entrances. Some regional roads need to be 100kph and some sections need to be 30kph. Why not do it??

DerekP11

regedit wrote:

BTW, I was wondering how long does it take someone to get from Newbridge to Citywest or even the RCR now that the works are almost completed?

No more than 20 minutes to Citywest. As for RCR. That depends on time of day. From 9.30 to 10.30, half an hour. If it builds at Newlands, were into guess work.

UPDATE

The entire carraigeway is now 3 lane Southbound to the M7 tie in. Still hard shoulder restrictions due to fencing works. Northbound, the surfacing is done, but inside lane is still "bollarded" off. This could change within hours as it looks ready to go. Overall we're there, more or less. A huge improvement. Has anyone noticed any increased congestion approaching Newlands in the morning peak? One of the predictions was that the new grade seperations would rush traffic towards it quicker.

Any thoughts?

mysterious

DerekP11 wrote:

No more than 20 minutes to Citywest. As for RCR. That depends on time of day. From 9.30 to 10.30, half an hour. If it builds at Newlands, were into guess work.

UPDATE

The entire carraigeway is now 3 lane Southbound to the M7 tie in. Still hard shoulder restrictions due to fencing works. Northbound, the surfacing is done, but inside lane is still "bollarded" off. This could change within hours as it looks ready to go. Overall we're there, more or less. A huge improvement. Has anyone noticed any increased congestion approaching Newlands in the morning peak? One of the predictions was that the new grade seperations would rush traffic towards it quicker.

Any thoughts?

Yes a long time now, Newlands cross cannot cope with the amount even if traffic levels don't rise, because now with the upgrade your going to have to fast free flowing hitting the junction now just make matter worse and therefor queues will lenghten way past Citywest. When September comes it will make the madness we have now a childlike issue.

The Doktor

I dunno, so far the time it takes to get from Naas to city is looking pretty good. In fact its made me get into town WAY to early.
Tuesday morning has to drive to Inchicore for 9am. Left house at 7:20, was in inchicore at 8:50
Wednesday had to be in city center at 10am. Left house at 7:30, was at custom house quay at 8:30 (big delay was quays, 30 mins to get from heuston to custome hse quay.
This morning left at 8am, was in Ballymount at 8:30 (stopped for coffee an all)

DerekP11

Hmmm... interesting. I don't leave Naas until 9ish. Hit Newlands turn for Belgard road at approx. 9.20. At the mo, some mornings the approach to M50 looks bad and good.

I'll go with the opinion of Mysterious.

September will be the time to judge. Holidays over, back to school and back to work.

icdg

The M7 has now had most of its junctions either numbered (or in the case of the former J7-J11, renumbered) to fit in with the new numbering scheme on the Naas Road. Exception at the moment is the Naas junction itself which is still numbered J9 southbound but J7 northbound - no doubt this will be fixed soon.

Aidan1

Having driven the 'new' N7 a number of times recently, I can now confidently report on a new phenomenon in Irish road use. Its called the 'dual fast lane' approach.

What happens is that the slow lane is now, apparently, in the middle, and is accompanied by fast lanes on either side. So the grannies can cruise up the central lane, wandering slightly from side to side, with other traffic choosing a side to pass them, depending entirely on a whim.

Those drivers, like ignorant little me, who chose to sit in the inside 'fast lane', then get beeped at for holding up traffic. I think an education campaign may just be in order.

mysterious

Aidan1 wrote:

Having driven the 'new' N7 a number of times recently, I can now confidently report on a new phenomenon in Irish road use. Its called the 'dual fast lane' approach.

What happens is that the slow lane is now, apparently, in the middle, and is accompanied by fast lanes on either side. So the grannies can cruise up the central lane, wandering slightly from side to side, with other traffic choosing a side to pass them, depending entirely on a whim.

Those drivers, like ignorant little me, who chose to sit in the inside 'fast lane', then get beeped at for holding up traffic. I think an education campaign may just be in order.

That's a funny way of putting it. The inexperienced drivers would see it as a balance neither here or there approach just gliding through the traffic at a constant speed. That's probably one of the most annoying thing is they stupidly stay in the middle lane the whole length doing 60miles an hour or something along those lines, thinking it's perfectly normal - almost predictable.

PhilipFromBosco

So back to the big question, any word on its official opening date of the N7. The project website says the end of August for completion of all road works.

cormthechippy

The main N7 is open, all three lanes. Drove up and back to Limerick at the weekend, 2hours, so it definitely makes a difference with the 100 km/h limit. Not very many obeying it though, is it likely to be upgraged to 120?

darkman2

Is this suppose to be 'officially' opened today or is it already 'officially' opened??:rolleyes:

Fool 5000

Ya and hence this,

http://www.transport21.ie/MEDIA/Press_Releases/N7_Naas_Road_Widening_and_Interchange.html

BrianD

Do they still have the height restriction on the M7 on the flyover that was part of Exit 7 (now I believe Exit 9)? Trucks had to go up the off ramp and then back down the other side to avoid passing under the bridge. They did some work on the bridge itself and on the surface underneath when joining the upgraded N7 to the M7.

dublinhead

Naas Road is top class. Drove to Nass( a nice place to shop! ) from Rathcoole in 10mins on Saturday.

Chris_533976

Hows Newlands Cross faring thesedays?

loyatemu

is this now 3+3 all the way to Naas?
and have all the junctions to Naas now been grade-seperated?

the press release above suggests the upgrade only goes as far as the Kildare border.

murphaph

loyatemu wrote:

is this now 3+3 all the way to Naas?
and have all the junctions to Naas now been grade-seperated?

Yes on both counts

BrianD

There are still some private residences that have entrances to the dual carriageway along with some odd turn offs like the one to Newcastle on the northbound carriageway before the Rathcoole exit.

murphaph

All perfectly acceptable IMO, given what went before it is great. It reminds me of the A55 across north Wales in many ways, same reasons that the A55 aren't a motorway too.

Far far better than tearing up vast swathes of the contryside along the canal to build the M7 and add yet another junction to the congested M50. Hopefully we'll get the 'good' red cow upgrade as discussed in the other thread and then it's just Newland's to worry about.

mysterious

murphaph wrote:

All perfectly acceptable IMO, given what went before it is great. It reminds me of the A55 across north Wales in many ways, same reasons that the A55 aren't a motorway too.

Far far better than tearing up vast swathes of the contryside along the canal to build the M7 and add yet another junction to the congested M50. Hopefully we'll get the 'good' red cow upgrade as discussed in the other thread and then it's just Newland's to worry about.

If they are going to upgrade Newlands cross. I'd agree with you about closing off the eastbound slip on the Monastery road interchange. Alternatively you can allow eastbound dedicated lane to M50 NB, this would allow free flow movement as the citybound traffic is restricted. But as planned all movements are allowed. even traffic coming from Limerick etc can take a left onto the Monastery road here. It's pointless when you can just take a left at Newlands just as easy.

Westbound of the Naas road is fine, but Traffic from the M50 is restricted to access the luas. though with the good red cow design it's possible for traffic to enter this interchange at all movements as I believe as the M50 slip is at grade with the rest of the road. where as the EIS partial free flow isn't. Anyway hope this make sense.

amound of acesses to the N7 is redicoulous. Fair enough all the old acesses have being there for Ions. but it should have less though. The local access road between Redcow and Newlands. it's stupid IMO.