NCAD move

Finner

I just read an article in yesterdays Irish Times by Colm ó Briain, the Director of the NCAD. He was talking about the plans for the redevelopment of the college where two of the possible plans involve the expansion of the existing sight at Thomas Street or a move to a new building at UCD.

In recent months there has been many protests on UCD grounds by students from NCAD (including setting themselves adrift on the lake!) and I personally feel that these protests are insulting to me and the college I attend.

I think my campus is beautiful, in it's own sort of way. It's beauty is in its modernity and the many different buildings from different decades bounce off each other in a very effective way.

I understand the NCAD students concerns that a move to UCD would mean a move out of the city centre which would be an inconvenience but on any other grounds I feel its an insult. They would gain a state of the art new facility and the college would still own and conduct some of their work on the Thomas Street sight. Students of both institutions would also benefit from the skills and experience each institution can offer each other while still maintaining their autonomy.

Students of this country should be banding together as friends for in the end we're all the same. But the moves by NCAD students are only causing conflict and bad relations between the students of UCD and NCAD, especially since there is no definite plans yet for anything. The only definite thing is that NCAD can't stay in its existing premises if it wants to be recognised as on the international stage as it well deserves to do.

I wonder if any NCAD student can clear up the matter for me? or if there are any other UCD student's who feel the same/not the same as I do? or if there's anyone else with an opinion in general about this matter?

Red Alert

Finner, you've certainly hit the proverbial nail on the head. I had read about and seen their protests against our campus; why do they feel the need to come and insult us?

Anyway we would have had plenty to offer them in terms of surroundings:

• The 1960's polish architecture, reminiscent of the cold war era
• In particular the 'nuclear bunker' appearance the library has
• A few very old buildings, some amazingly intact like Richview or Roebuck
• Some 1980's/1990's designed buildings such as Deadalus, Sport Centre and Eng
• Relatively good (if not expensive) sports facilities
• Some of the grounds of UCD where there hasn't been insane building are genuinely beautiful
• A useless Student Centre which they would probably spend time in
• An amazing variety of Wildlife, I've personnally seen swans, rabbits and foxes in the place

some of these sound perfect for arts type of people, in terms of both things to study and for inspiration. Imagine what the reaction would be if we had mounted a protest either after a move to UCD or before it outside their campus - 'Go away', 'NCAD's not welcome here' etc... People would be making us out as being selfish and unwelcoming.

beanyb

I can understand why they dont want to move here, they have a really nice small college atmosphere in NCAD and they would be swallowed up by the sheer size of UCD, however I think they ran the campaign really badly.

Most UCD students are indifferent about the subject since in reality it wont make a difference to our lives since there's so many people out here anyway. If they hadnt decided to insult us and therefore alienate us all from their campaign they could have had the support of around 20,000 people. But since they've insulted us, it makes us really not care what happens to them even more. Bad strategic move.

pretty*monster

I know from speaking to their campaigns officer (who's a friend of mine) that in general they never intended to insult ucd students. I explained to him, back in december, that they had insulted a lot of us (escpecially the Art not Orts placards)

They don't want to move, from what I gather, most of the staff don't either. And most of their reasons are pretty good ones.

They could have conducted their campaign better imo, but at the end of the day, getting support for the students of ucd won't make a difference in the scheme of things. And ucdsu supported them in either case afaik.

snickerpuss

Yeah it was the coming over to slag us off that annoyed me.
Fair enough if you don't wanna move here but we're not asking you to.
(also that art not orts thing was mostly what did it)

ferdi

i wouldnt blame them, i wish i had gone to a small university, UCD is faceless.

tintinr35

whos to say we want the C*unts here anyways, i for one think they are being really ungratefull..if they were to move out here they would have a brand new building with state of the art facilities that would make it one of the most modern and facility rich art colleges in europe!
how would they like it if we went into NCAD with banners insulting them and their course and campus!

Riamfada

Im with tintinr on this. Can we organise a protest march in NCAD

honru

I thought it was odd decision to protest in the UCD campus. I understand why they wouldn't want to move there, but they're hardly winning the support of the UCD students.

ferdi

Grimes wrote:

Im with tintinr on this. Can we organise a protest march in NCAD

good idea....maybe we could make it more of a 'Rally', i think we could get this guy to speak at it -> http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/art-11621

schmooschmoo

The protests were never intended to be anything personal against UCD or a critique of the college's current standing. The only reason UCD has come so much into the protests of NCAD and has been chosen to stage protests in is simply due to its listing as a proposed location to move to. You're perfectly aware of that, I'm sure, but I'll tell you that the exact same would be happening out in DCU had that been listed instead. Once again, we've no problems with DCU or its students (unless on some individual level that I'm unaware of) but we would have a problem with moving out to the suburbs and would be protesting there similarly.

It's terrible that students of UCD have felt insulted along the way. I don't blame them, there have definitely been a few miscommunications. It's actually become a pretty big concern among the protesters in NCAD and they hoped that the rafting protest was more succesful in targeting our director and not the students in UCD. The 'arts not orts' thing was a few people getting carried away with personal signs and not representative of the students of NCAD in any way. It happens at protests - you try and get a unified message across and a few people go a little off the side. Sure NCAD is full of d4 people and all sorts of funny accents anyway.

Riamfada

schmooschmoo wrote:

.The 'arts not orts'

I hear what you are saying but some girl actually walked around the Department of Lung Cancer and came up to me saying this. If NCAD students cant think of another valid reason to move to UCD other then the fact that they dont want to be associated with fictional charaters in a popular series of books they should be located back to playschool for re-eduaction from the ground up .

PS: Hitler Is a Very Shiney Man.

pretty*monster

On a more serious note, considering the was the humanities get f*cked around by the man with his eye on the bottom line, I can't imagine that Art and design would get shed loads of funding here, that their dept would certainly have very little power if they were ever to full integrate with ucd. State of the art facilities me arse.

From the pov of them retaining academic integrity (or whatever one would call that if applies to art) and independence they're infinitely better off staying put.

/wishes she went to a small liberal arts college that wasn't psychotically focused on preformatively.

Riamfada

Well that didnt work.

Pretty ALL colleges are the same. Can you give me an example of a small liberal college with a peaceful utopia shared between students and authorities?

ferdi

pretty*monster wrote:

/wishes she went to a small liberal arts college that wasn't psychotically focused on preformatively.

Amen to that sister

pretty*monster

Your terribly cynical Grimes.

Plus the horrific commute is a legitimate complaint! Trinners was top of my cao form for one reason only, getting there was so much easier.

Riamfada

pretty*monster wrote:

On a more serious note

I dont see how my post was any less serious than yours as most of NCAD students lament the loss of their Prime Location and their associations rather than their love for the area, their arguements against moving are weak and even funny.Kate you make a good anti-UCD point because you are so against the college and any form of change its mind boggling. Dont make me go through NCAD SU threads again

And Im sorry but I cant find the college's resons for relocating? Does anyone know or are we just starting to take off over nothing?

PS:
Dearm Mr Ahern
Please keep my college open I dont want to get the bus.
Signed NCAD Arts

Dear Mr NCAD Arts
Go grow the fcuk up .
Mr Ahern

pretty*monster

Grimes wrote:

I dont see how my post was any less serious than yours as most of NCAD students lament the loss of their Prime Location and their associations. Dont make me go through NCAD SU threads again

I consider academic integrity, how knowledge is communicated, what it means to be a university, cultures of learning, and an increasing focus on preformatively and the economic value of higher education to be matters of global importance and yes, far more serious than the issue of whether ncad pissed us all off with a badly thought out protest. I didn't mean to be insulting.

Grimes wrote:

And Im sorry but I cant find the college's resons for relocating? Does anyone know or are we just starting to take off over nothing?

As far as I remember NCAD wants to relocate because their current premises need a lot of work and it'll be cheaper to sell the high value city center site and start from scratch in Belfield.

Riamfada

Grimes went to a small liberal college and got royally fooked because of a lack of strong student representation (sure there were no students!) and a lack of a social life (sure there were no students) and poor academic resources (not enough students to care!. Our department ,Law had 1 Shelf in the "Library") . Now I'm in UCD i feel alot more represented and integrated with people the college itself and I'm sorry but when the sun has been out the past few days its been magnificent around campus.

I dont understand why you remain in UCD pretty if you hate it so much and think its such as **** place which culminates in a useless degree. In my experience its the same as every other college i have ever visted, academically of course.

*apologies im not as good with words

You seem to be using this NCAD move to highlight YOUR beef with UCD and not that of the majority of NCAD students



PS Kate

Maid Marrion was a slut

pretty*monster

Grimes wrote:

Grimes went to a small liberal college and got royally fooked because of a lack of strong student representation (sure there were no students!) and a lack of a social life (sure there were no students) and poor academic resources (not enough students to care!) . Now I'm in UCD i feel alot more represented and integrated with people the college itself and I'm sorry but when the sun has been out the past few days its been magnificent around campus.

Yeah but were talking about two diffent issues.

You're right, I adore the social life of ucd and all the other advantages that you mentioned.

What I worry about is... the bigger picture I suppose, the sort of stuff that doesn't seem to effect the average student on a daily bases, but is effecting the kind of society we have. The kind of rubbish I see sitting on the BA programme board whereby Hugh Brady, Philip Nolan and a load of faceless project managers seem to think they know better than Heads of Departments and professers how Italien, philosophy or history should be taught.
Undervaluing of Arts and Humanities basically.
Power being focused on higher levels of admin, instead of more locally in schools as it (imo) should be.
The emphasis on performativity and the bottom line which leaves no room for the idea of learning as a good thing in and of itself.

The kind of crap that has seen applications for early retirement triple (according to what the Head of one of the schools) this year

Grimes wrote:

You seem to be using this NCAD move to highlight YOUR beef with UCD and not that of the majority of NCAD students

I'm not 'using' this for anything.
My beef with ucd can only be resolved by me graduating and getting out.

I'm just commenting.

Chillax

arbeitsscheuer

pretty*monster wrote:

The kind of rubbish I see sitting on the BA programme board whereby Hugh Brady, Philip Nolan and a load of faceless project managers seem to think they know better than Heads of Departments and professers how Italien, philosophy or history should be taught.
Undervaluing of Arts and Humanities basically.
Power being focused on higher levels of admin, instead of more locally in schools as it (imo) should be.
The emphasis on performativity and the bottom line which leaves no room for the idea of learning as a good thing in and of itself.

Bingo - hit the proverbial nail right on the f**king head.

I've kept quiet cos I'm not so good at the whole arguing my point and/or maintaining a coherent line of thought, but it strikes me that NCAD is their college. If they wanna stay where they are (and I've been to Thomas St. a few times, I can see why they would like to stay put) then let them. I don't really understand why they are being coerced into this - the Academic staff aren't exactly over the moon about the proposed move either.

Me, I didn't feel insulted in the slightest by their SU's "Arts not Orts" campaign, thought it was pretty funny tbh.

Maybe I'm just not as easily offended as some of the rest of you.

Riamfada

SebtheBum wrote:

Maybe I'm just not as easily offended as some of the rest of you.

Post of the year.


The college , or any college for that matter isnt a ****ing democracy run by students and business men nor is it some lefty paradise run by just students for the joy of academia. Colleges make money and thats how you get to go to them. If it is financially prudent to move NCAD to a better campus rathern then spend millions fixing the hell hole up they are going to do that even if a few students from NCAD dont want to take the bus or a few UCD students have a beef with their college


Academics , sheesh . Do they not get their paycheck off the college. IF your company decides to up and move 5 km down the road you ****ing move with them. I dont see why students should get special treatment over the rest of society(but then again from being kids to college most students have been looked after and given special treatment by the powers that be since they popped out and on graduationg will realise that the world dosnt care about them or their situation and there is no one to look after them )

pretty*monster

Oh, and

Grimes wrote:

I dont understand why you remain in UCD pretty if you hate it so much and think its such as **** place which culminates in a useless degree. In my experience its the same as every other college i have ever visted, academically of course.

I don't think my degree is useless. I think if I straighten up and focus it's one of the most worthwhile things I'll ewver do.
I do however think that ucd treats me like my dgree is worthless

Grimes wrote:

PS Kate

Maid Marrion was a slut

Graham

I will destroy you

Riamfada

pretty*monster wrote:

I do however think that ucd treats me like my dgree is worthless

Yes because you are a number in a list of numbers and when you go out and get a job you wil be a number on a list of numbers on another page but by then you realise that how the world works.

arbeitsscheuer

Btw, just to put this discussion in context, here are linkies to prior debates on this topic:

NCAD in bed with UCD

NCAD protest on the Lake

pretty*monster

No Graham, you're not listening to anything I'm saying.

I'm not talking about student democracy, I'm not talking about a 'lefty paradise' (not explicitly).

I'm talking about how our culture values knowledge. It doesn't. That's bad.
I'm not trying to claim that we can necesserily do anything about it (not with out agonisingly slow social change or violent revolution as long we value capital we won't value anything else [but wouldn't a violent revolution in the name of knowledge be deadly]).

What I am saying (to bring this slightly on topic) is that a move to ucd will speed up the process by which NCAD will turn the way of most colleges and universities. Of course even if they don't move, they'll go that way anyway and from speaking to current/past students there they're well on track.

*edit* and when I said 'treat me' I didn't mean, boo hoo the man doesn't worship the ground I walk on.
I mean they don't treat the Colleges of Arts and Celtic Studies and Human Sciences (staff, students, subjects and all) with any respect. I don't get particularly upset that the admin push students around, it's ****, you fight it, but it's a fight you expect to have to fight. But it breaks my heart to see the effect the system has on teaching staff.

tintinr35

the bottom line is that if they move out here they will have unreal facilities due to the amount of money they will get for the site on thomas street........and i would imagine that whether they/we like it or not its going to happen....so they should work with the college to make the transition as smooth as possible instead of putting their time into building rafts and insulting us...who the fúck do they think they are comin into our college and insulting the biggest faculty in the university. let NCAD rot on their shítty ass campus on thomas street if they want UCD are offering them a lifeline and if they are too narrow minded to see it then let UCD build an art school regardless and we will soon see which one becomes the leader in the field

Riamfada

pretty*monster wrote:

Power being focused on higher levels of admin, instead of more locally in schools as it (imo) should be.

The kind of crap that has seen applications for early retirement triple (according to what the Head of one of the schools) this year

How does this affect you day to day? Just out of interested (so help me god if you say modularisation!;) )

panda100

pretty*monster wrote:

Oh, and



I don't think my degree is useless. I think if I straighten up and focus it's one of the most worthwhile things I'll ewver do.
I do however think that ucd treats me like my dgree is worthless

]

Prettymonster,Im sure UCD do not treat your degree as worthless infact I think its quite the opposite. You have the biggest building,closest to the library with the most books,teachers ,photocopiers,services etc then any of the other schools...art students have it sweet imo.Your degree is treated like any other degree so I dont know where your getting this 'worthless' idea from.

Seb as u said in a previous thread your parents protested against the move from ealsfortt terrace out to belfield.I cant help but think that if that move was occuring today prettymonster and seb would be dead against the move from the cramped earlsortt terrace to the spacious UCD.The reality though is a dilapitaded old building that would cost millions to do up,cold creaky rooms(its very difficult to be inspired by the beautiful architecture when your freezing your ass off). The fact that its a city centre location is neither here nor there.The bus service from town to belfiled is excellent with 10's and 46a's almost every 5mins.Whenever us meds need to get over to the mater we hop on the bus and are there in 30mins...I can only presume it will be the same for arts students who need to use the museums etc for inspiration.
Im confused why ncad dont want to move?I thought artists craved space and nature??

Riamfada

they are protesting the against the image of UCD and its rep using their arguments a superficial points to support thier protest

irishcrazyhorse

tintinr35 wrote:

the bottom line is that if they move out here they will have unreal facilities due to the amount of money they will get for the site on thomas street........and i would imagine that whether they/we like it or not its going to happen....so they should work with the college to make the transition as smooth as possible instead of putting their time into building rafts and insulting us...who the fúck do they think they are comin into our college and insulting the biggest faculty in the university. let NCAD rot on their shítty ass campus on thomas street if they want UCD are offering them a lifeline and if they are too narrow minded to see it then let UCD build an art school regardless and we will soon see which one becomes the leader in the field

Firstly,your obviously dont have a clue.....

One of the reasons why we dont want to move is
A. Our campus is fine,the only prob is we have to rent some of out equipment
B.Thomas Street has everything we need plus some.
C.They have just annouced that they are going to turn the Temple bar/Christchuch area into into the cultural center of Dublin!

And not one person out there went to insult the teachers or students,they went out on the rafts to raise awareness and to get some media attention...

But as you are in the biggest facility in UCD you knew all that right!?

The reason they want us to move is
A.They want the money for the land(we wont see a penny)
B.To merge our fine art department with yours(as well have the largest library in the country,of art/designs books, and some of the best tutors)
C.In the end it will not benifit us really in any way,will benifit the odd department in UCD and really take NCAD identity away...
The problem is not with UCD or the name,it is that NCAD is a unique,small college,with some of the brightest young artists/designers who all associate with each other.
To move the people out the the jungle that is UCD,the association between artists would be lost...

I really do hope that the majoity of UCD students undertstand what we are trying to do here and will support us,for any of you that have ever been in NCAD for any of our avents ,I say you all ready understand.