Dealing with bad service

stovelid

I agree that service in Ireland is brutal and it's a pin in the arse. I couldnt leave without paying a tip though. What if the tips are split between the staff? That means the good waiters/waitresses - who probably rely on tips to supplement their wages - are being punished for other **** waiting staff/chef/owner.

dizzywizzard wrote:

After travelling around quite a bit I refuse to leave a tip in this country now (I'm Irish) unless the service is exceptional.

dbnavan

Thirdfox wrote:

True - you may know it's true but how will boards.ie convince 12 members of the jury that it is so? On your evidence? It's hardly impartial is it?

And that of 3 other people with me

Thirdfox

I have no experience of real law cases and do not know what level of evidence is needed (well prove over 50% more likely that you are right)... anyway I'm taking this thread wildly off topic (thanks stovelid for reminding me what this is all about!)

I for the most part don't like the service here in many restaurants in Ireland... waiters seem very disinterested in the customer... my €0.02

dbnavan

stovelid wrote:

I agree that service in Ireland is brutal and it's a pin in the arse. I couldnt leave without paying a tip though. What if the tips are split between the staff? That means the good waiters/waitresses - who probably rely on tips to supplement their wages - are being punished for other **** waiting staff/chef/owner.

I only tip, and I dont mind tipping well, if the service is good. I wont tip bad service, dont care what they are paid, not my business.

CuLT

All of you pseudo-lawyers are fantastic.

Get your degrees from Hearsay University?

I have rarely had a bad experience in a restaurant, though I tend to pick carefully. Only ever had a problem with one shop a certain chain of sandwich bars, but that was more to do with the generally appalling level of service I had experienced that day in other shops.

Thirdfox

Studying law in Trinity College actually. But heh not spoiling this thread (any more ) with this off-topicness.

Siogfinsceal

why cant he name and shame I dont understand? surely freedom of speech allows him to voice his opinion of this restaurant? is it any different to a restaurant review in the paper which is legal? Theres no problem if he wanted to recommend them so I dont see why a bad review should be disallowed??

Lothaar

There is NOTHING libellous about naming this restaurant on this forum. There is provision in libel law for fair comment and, as someone already pointed out, for writing reviews. If a journalist slates a play/film/restaurant/album, he doesn't get sued. He can say "The Chilli Peppers' latest offering is devoid of the funky power that once made them so great, etc" and he's not going to get sued by the Chillis.
Restaurants are judged by their food and service, and if either are sub-par then it's perfectly fine to name and shame them. Also, considering the amount of witnesses the OP had, he would have no problem proving it in court (which he would never have to do because he is not libelling the restaurant).

... if he were, for example, to falsely accuse the restaurant's proprietors of committing fraud, or stealing his wallet he could be in trouble. But stop being so scared of libel everybody. If you tell the truth you'll be fine.
And remember that a lot of reviews are positive, and forums are a great place for spreading the word on your favourite restaurant. You are allowed praise them for a good experience, and criticise them if you have a bad experience.

stovelid

good man, fair play to you

dbnavan wrote:

dont care what they are paid, not my business.

cooperguy

Lothaar wrote:

There is NOTHING libellous about naming this restaurant on this forum. There is provision in libel law for fair comment and, as someone already pointed out, for writing reviews. If a journalist slates a play/film/restaurant/album, he doesn't get sued. He can say "The Chilli Peppers' latest offering is devoid of the funky power that once made them so great, etc" and he's not going to get sued by the Chillis.
Restaurants are judged by their food and service, and if either are sub-par then it's perfectly fine to name and shame them. Also, considering the amount of witnesses the OP had, he would have no problem proving it in court (which he would never have to do because he is not libelling the restaurant).

... if he were, for example, to falsely accuse the restaurant's proprietors of committing fraud, or stealing his wallet he could be in trouble. But stop being so scared of libel everybody. If you tell the truth you'll be fine.
And remember that a lot of reviews are positive, and forums are a great place for spreading the word on your favourite restaurant. You are allowed praise them for a good experience, and criticise them if you have a bad experience.

Somebody is speaking sense.......FINALLY

segadreamcast

Thirdfox wrote:

Studying law in Trinity College actually. But heh not spoiling this thread (any more ) with this off-topicness.

No offence Thirdfox, but the amount of times you mention that 'qualification', yet contradict yourself by spouting pseudo-legal sh!te is unbelievable (I would like to recall the thread involves consumer affairs/the camera sold for less than it ought to be).

If the OP posts it as an opinion, nothing more, it can not be considered defamatory as it is merely an opinion (much like a review) - no matter what medium presents it. I'm sure there's plenty of case law on it too - though I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to sue based on a review.

segadreamcast

Lothaar wrote:

There is NOTHING libellous about naming this restaurant on this forum. There is provision in libel law for fair comment and, as someone already pointed out, for writing reviews. If a journalist slates a play/film/restaurant/album, he doesn't get sued. He can say "The Chilli Peppers' latest offering is devoid of the funky power that once made them so great, etc" and he's not going to get sued by the Chillis.
Restaurants are judged by their food and service, and if either are sub-par then it's perfectly fine to name and shame them. Also, considering the amount of witnesses the OP had, he would have no problem proving it in court (which he would never have to do because he is not libelling the restaurant).

... if he were, for example, to falsely accuse the restaurant's proprietors of committing fraud, or stealing his wallet he could be in trouble. But stop being so scared of libel everybody. If you tell the truth you'll be fine.
And remember that a lot of reviews are positive, and forums are a great place for spreading the word on your favourite restaurant. You are allowed praise them for a good experience, and criticise them if you have a bad experience.

You bugger, you beat me to it. You're also right about RHCP too. In fact, I've never read a single post that is so right about so many things.... if only we still had that 'karma' button...

Thirdfox

You do know that there is a difference between contract law and tort law right? My information provided on the Apple camera thread was from McDermott's Law on Contracts - the leading book on contract law, write to him if you think it's pseudo-defecation. I have finished studying tort law (under which defamation is covered and gave my opinion on the facts that I knew - you may think that it is legal waffle, so be it.)

How many times have I mentioned that qualification? (It's not a qualification at all btw - that's why there's a disclaimer - could be sued under for professional negligence otherwise).

You do not know what my personal circumstances with Apple is currently - don't think you're qualified to comment

As I have already pointed out - the defence of fair comment is open most definitely to the OP and boards.ie see post no. 26. I've just pointed out that people are taking a risk (however small) that could lead to many inconveniences for the forum.

*edit: I see that you have contributed nothing on topic in your posts - is this just some rant? Also you should start clearing out your old PMs - inbox is full I see.

segadreamcast

Thirdfox wrote:

You do know that there is a difference between contract law and tort law right? My information provided on the Apple camera thread was from McDermott's Law on Contracts - the leading book on contract law, write to him if you think it's pseudo-defecation. I have finished studying tort law (under which defamation is covered and gave my opinion on the facts that I knew - you may think that it is legal waffle, so be it.)

How many times have I mentioned that qualification? (It's not a qualification at all btw - that's why there's a disclaimer - could be sued under for professional negligence otherwise).

You do not know what my personal circumstances with Apple is currently - don't think you're qualified to comment

As I have already pointed out - the defence of fair comment is open most definitely to the OP and boards.ie see post no. 26. I've just pointed out that people are taking a risk (however small) that could lead to many inconveniences for the forum.

*edit: I see that you have contributed nothing on topic in your posts - is this just some rant? Also you should start clearing out your old PMs - inbox is full I see.

Yes, you caught me. I took a thread off topic in After Hours. Bravo.

They are taking about as great a risk as 'The Irish Times' takes in publishing a scathing film review every now and then. I wouldn't accuse McDermott's book of putting a foot wrong - however, I would accuse you of misinterpreting and adhering to some sort of tabloid-esque policy of 'Sensational Law' that requires you to spout off something legal when it was neither asked for nor needed then, when (often sensibly) challenged on the issue, to reply: "I'm a Trinity Law Student, actually".

Pulling it on topic though - db - you were, of course, right to complain and, sadly, it's something Irish people do all too rarely in restaurants, instead choosing to grumble to themselves and then telling the waitress that "it was lovely !". Insincerity is apparently our strong suit, it seems at times!

Sam Vimes

people are saying it could be libel because dbnavan cant prove his claims. how is it ever possible to prove a claim like that? should we all bring video cameras and document our every move? barring that such a claim will always be their word against his. even the "maggot in the alpen" bloke only has his word that he found it in there. businesses shouldnt be able to get away with shoddy service just because people cant prove it happened. besides which, it did happen to theyd be mighty stupid to try to sue boards over it

hshortt

I remember listening to Gerry Ryan a good while ago and he had a restaurant critic with him who said that you could leave and pay only the price of the raw ingredients for your meal. Don't know how true this is but it sounds reasonable to me.

That said never had to do it, the one place I was in that was terrible my party left after the starter arrived in a record 90 minutes and was cold. I got up went to the manger explained I was leaving, that I was not willing to pay for the poor service. She started getting loud and spitting through gritted teeth that I must pay for the drinks and the starter. She said she'd call the police and I said that was fine, I left my name and address and told her to send me an invoice. Never heard from her again.

Cheerio
Howard

Cake Fiend

Saruman wrote:

20 mins we were sitting and no one took our order!! When a bunch of new people came in and they got their order taken i threw the menu down and we left. I doubt they even noticed nor cared

They probably didn't. If you had actually complained to the people responsible, then you might have gotten something out of it - IMO, if you don't complain to someone's face, you don't have much of a right to complain about them later to other people.

But, 'tis the traditional Irish way, isn't it.

Thirdfox

Please clear out your some of your old PMs Noel - I wanted to post a detailed response to your allegations without resorting to posting here with off-topic issues.

Anyway you state that I respond "I'm a Trinity Law Student" to a challenge to an issue... looking back at the posts I believe I was responding to CuLT's question asking did I get a degree from Hearsay university. Quoting me out of context doesn't really help the situation any.

Also you didn't address my point that I haven't studied contract law (not yet), whereas I have an exam in defamation in 2 weeks time. How am I being sensationalist when I say to err on the side of caution?

parsi

Thirdfox wrote:

Please clear out your some of your old PMs Noel - I wanted to post a detailed response to your allegations without resorting to posting here with off-topic issues.

Anyway you state that I respond "I'm a Trinity Law Student" to a challenge to an issue... looking back at the posts I believe I was responding to CuLT's question asking did I get a degree from Hearsay university. Quoting me out of context doesn't really help the situation any.

Also you didn't address my point that I haven't studied contract law (not yet), whereas I have an exam in defamation in 2 weeks time. How am I being sensationalist when I say to err on the side of caution?

Would ye go away outside and continue yer "Mc Cutheon at dawn" posturing and let the rest of us read this thread without pseudo-legal mumbo-jumbo quasi-useful (running-out-of-compund-words-now) stuff. Or else gwan over to the Broadband forum and give out to everyone who moans about ** or *** or ****** or ***** ********* ....

shoegirl

Hobbes wrote:

Can't name it here. I am sure there is somewhere he can complain to.

Not sure about the law in Ireland but in England you have to pay for the meal before you can make a complaint. Trying to leave without paying can get you arrested (in England).

I think that is correct. However I do have one story that is even worse than all of these.

My parents brought us to a pub to have lunch in a scenic Wicklow area in the late 1980s. After ignoring us for quite some time we ordered the food, settled into a corner and waited for the food to come . . . and waited . . . and waited

Eventually after about half an hour nothing happened. A minute or so later 5 plates of food were left on the bar counter about 25 feet away and my parents were so incensed they just packed us up and walked out!

I always say - if you get good service, tell your friends, if its bad, tell your friends and don't give them your business again. We in Ireland are so willing to be treated like dirt its unreal. If somebody won't treat you like a customer then don't be one there again.

MOH

Could dbnavan not name a (possibly completely different) restaurant in a positive comment then? Nothing libellous there. Something like:

"Recently I had salmon with my wife, her mother, and her aunt in xxxxx restaurant, which was painted a lovely shade of blue."

If anyone draws an inference that it's the same restaurant, well, I don't know how they could get that idea.

flutegirl

dbnavan,

Did this restaurant have any rating, stars (thinking AA type thing) endorsement? You could let them know. Coming from the hospitality industry myself I'm very surprised.Did the waiter/ess check back after each course to see if there were any probs? That's the time to raise any issues you have. Most managers (in my experience) would rather deal with any probs you have there and then rather then have people writing in afterwards. In my experience the customers are quite happy if the probs are dealt with on the spot, and will usually return. That's what customer service is about.

dbnavan

flutegirl wrote:

dbnavan,

Did this restaurant have any rating, stars (thinking AA type thing) endorsement?

Not sure but I doubt it, it was only a glorified coffee shop, but thats no excuse IMO

flutegirl

dbnavan wrote:

Not sure but I doubt it, it was only a glorified coffee shop, but thats no excuse IMO

They could be selling coffee out the boot of their car, it makes no difference. All your probs could have been dealt with to your satisfaction. It sounds like they're in the wrong business.