More horror stories about BT Broadband...

Gandalf23

This is from the "Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs" website, and quoted from the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980.

Taken directly from the ODCA site, in relation to the supply of services...

"The consumer is entitled to expect:

1) That the supplier has the necessary skill to provide the service.
2) That the service will be provided with proper care and diligence
3) That materials used will be sound and that goods supplied as part of the service will be of merchantable quality.

If a service is unsatisfactory the consumer may be entitled to some remedy or compensation. A lot will depend on the circumstances of the case. However, consumer rights do not apply to services in every one. In certain circumstances the suppliers of services can limit their responsibilities to consumer through exclusion clauses provided the exclusions are specifically brought to the consumers attention and are fair and reasonable.

The essential steps to consumer rights.

1) Complain to the person (the shop or the business) who sold the goods or the service.
2) Act promptly and reasonably: delay could result in a loss of rights
3) As a first step the consumer must be able to establish that the goods or service in question were bought from or were provided by the seller in question, e.g. through the production of a receipt or other form of proof of purchase. [Put simply, the consumer who is making the complaint must be able to show convincingly, as a necessary first step to having their rights vindicated, that they bought the goods where they say they bought them]."

Some points...
1. I was never made aware of any exclusion clauses by BT. I have checked my contract carefully... there are none in the contract I have on my desk right now. I never signed or agreed to any other TOS from BT.
2. I have complained consistently to BT in a timely and reasonable manner.
3. I currently have no means of proving I have any service from BT (with the exception of my CC statement. I have never received anything from BT and have NO access to the online billing system.

Gandalf23

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

The phrase fit for the intended purpose springs to mind, but you have to ask yourself if the intended purpose of a non-business DSL product is to run your business off of it.

It should not matter exactly how I was using the service or product as long as my usage was reasonable (eg, not running a spamming / bittorrent / porn etc service). No where in my BT contract does it say that business related work may not be carried out, and nowhere does it say in the contract or on the BT BB website that the service offered to me is unsuitable for business use.

For over 3 weeks it was not fit for anything be it home or business use because it was not working specifically as a result of BT's incompetence, and BT have admitted to this.

This is a very fine line here you are drawing Donkey... how would you define what "business" usage is... would you consider someone checking work email from home as using BB for "business purposes"? What about someone accessing a work related VPN from home? Home video conferencing? Tweaking the company website at the weekend? Using VoIP to contact a co-worker or client? I'm not sure how you would administer this, and to be honest even BT must know that even their most basic BB package will be used for some work related stuff.

I would suggest that most people would use BB for a mix of personal and work.

DonkeyStyle \o/

There's a difference between using your connection for "business purposes" and "your business absolutely depending on the availability of the connection".
I think it's fair to say most home users aren't losing big bucks every time their connection isn't working.

Gandalf23

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

There's a difference between using your connection for "business purposes" and "your business absolutely depending on the availability of the connection".
I think it's fair to say most home users aren't losing big bucks every time their connection isn't working.

I have not said that my "business absolutely depends on the availability of the BB connection", and I have not said that I am losing "big bucks". Both of the statements you quote are false.

DonkeyStyle \o/

I didn't quote both statements you mention. Your assertion that I did is false.

Gandalf23

What was the purpose of your "quotation marks" then? Were you quoting someone else?

leche solara

If you have no proof of getting a service from BT (i.e a bill) then you have no need to pay. Just cancel the direct debit, walk away and take your business elsewhere. You can deny ever having the service, as surely you would have been billed if you did, and if they're anything like the muppets you make out, they probably won't have a record either.

Gandalf23

leche solara wrote:

If you have no proof of getting a service from BT (i.e a bill) then you have no need to pay. Just cancel the direct debit, walk away and take your business elsewhere. You can deny ever having the service, as surely you would have been billed if you did, and if they're anything like the muppets you make out, they probably won't have a record either.

Thats probably what I'll do to be honest.

I'm fairly sure the lack of a bill wont stop BT attempting to charge me. BT's policy seems to be to charge as much as possible and let the customer sort things out if the charge is incorrect. People here have been charged even after they have cancelled thier BB and DD.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Gandalf23 wrote:

What was the purpose of your "quotation marks" then?

Those weren't quotation marks, they were East Asian corner brackets... I was writing vertically.
I know you are, but what am I?
/me wraps up pedantic pissing-contest and exits stage left

nearlyhappy

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

/me wraps up pedantic pissing-contest and exits stage left

Aaaaa dont, I was enjoying it !

nH

Gandalf23

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Those weren't quotation marks, they were East Asian corner brackets... I was writing vertically.
I know you are, but what am I?
/me wraps up pedantic pissing-contest and exits stage left

I bow to your knowledge of punctuation and East Asia

And I agree with you again... its a real pity that this thread has turned into a "pedantic pissing-contest" when its obvious that some people here have a genuine problem. I think its fair to say that most of us who currently find ourselves in this God-awful mess with BT are only looking for good advice and a way to solve our problems.

Gandalf23

I was assured by BT last Wednesday that I would have access to my online BT bill today (explained above). Anyone like to guess what happened when I logged in? Nothing... no bill, no information... nothing.

After another 45 minutes on the phone to BT customer services I was told that my technical problem with online billing was now being "accelerated" with BT global services in London. This apparently means that BT are going to give it "priority" now. Ha!!! The customer service rep (Donal) said my problem should be fixed sometime around the middle of next week. Hands up all who think this will be resolved next week? How about sometime next year? Any takers? Anyone?

At this point in the phonecall I was fairly unhappy (putting it mildly). I insisted that I be issued with some sort of bill immediatly. After another ten minutes of squabbling I got the attached "bill" by email. As you can see its in excel and even though it gives a breakdown of what I'm being charged and relevant dates, it says BT nowhere on the bill. It also doesnt say my name, address, phone number, or account number anywhere on the bill.

Now, maybe I'm being unreasonable, but this is just not good enough. A huge multi-national company cant do better than issue a poorly designed bill in excel. That is truly shocking in my opinion.

I immediatly phoned my bank and cancelled my DD to BT. The bank agreed to do this immediatly. As far as I'm concerned BT can now go screw themselves... I'm outa there for good. Next step is a registered letter to BT HQ explaining that I wish to terminate my contract from today, and if I dont get a refund/credit for the 3 weeks I was without service, or if BT EVEN ATTEMPT to take any money from my account I'll spend every waking hour fighting them.

This is truly shocking stuff, and open to abuse in my humble opinion. I have spent about 5 hours on the phone to BT last week alone trying to get something I am legally entitled to.

Good riddance, and if this cautionary tale has even made one person think twice about going with BT its been worth it.

/Edit... spreadsheet originally attached removed/

nearlyhappy

Dude...the spreadsheet properties...



Nh

Gandalf23

nearlyhappy wrote:

Dude...the spreadsheet properties...

Yep... edited post to remove the spreadsheet... Its been a long day...

Thanks nh

nearlyhappy

Gandalf23 wrote:

Yep... edited post to revove the spreadsheet. Its been a long day...

Thanks nh

No worries but I'm keepin the email address that was in there


Nh

Sapele

Gandalf23 wrote:

Now, maybe I'm being unreasonable, but this is just not good enough. A huge multi-national company cant do better than issue a poorly designed bill in excel. That is truly shocking in my opinion.

No you're not being unreasonable at all. I've never experienced anything remotely like BT before. They are truly shocking in their behaviour. It’s really a sad reflection of regulation in this country that companies like BT can operate at all. It's no accident that so many BT customers have the same tale to tell, it's BT policy -- I have no doubt. As Dub45 once said, it's only massive public embarrassment that will have an effect. Especially since regulation has so badly failed us. They can basically almost do as they wish

Gandalf23

Sapele wrote:

No you're not being unreasonable at all. I've never experienced anything remotely like BT before. They are truly shocking in their behaviour. It’s really a sad reflection of regulation in this country that companies like BT can operate at all. It's no accident that so many BT customers have the same tale to tell, it's BT policy -- I have no doubt. As Dub45 once said, it's only massive public embarrassment that will have an effect. Especially since regulation has so badly failed us. They can basically almost do as they wish

Well said ... exactly how I feel about it.

Gandalf23

nearlyhappy wrote:

No worries but I'm keepin the email address that was in there


Nh

Dub47

Gandalf I completely agree with you. I have spent the last 2 hours sending angry emails to BT after getting no response from all of my dozens of phone calls and conversations. I was so annoyed I did a search to see if others were getting screwed by BT like i am and i found this thread.

to sum it up i switched from eircom (who seemed bad until i experienced BT - eircom seem like saints now) to BT to get broadband and line rental. after numerous delays and screw ups during the switch over process they then put us on the wrong (lower) broadband package and it took over a month for them to put us on the right broadband package. then they screwed up again and put us on talk plus which we never ordered.

i signed up for online billing and signed a direct debit form. my first two bills were online (although i received no emails notifying me of them as i was supposed to) and i was overcharged on both. i called numerous times to complain and was told i would receive a credit on my next bill. funny, i've never received a bill since and that was november! also they have not taken anything by direct debit. at first i figured great we'll just see when they cop on and bill me but i eventually rang and was told someone would get back to me. then i received a bill from their legal credit control department demanding 469 euro and telling me they would pursue legal action if i didn't pay!!!! what???? these freaks had my direct debit details. unbelievable. and what's worse is that that amount was way more than what i would have owed - it was more than twice what i would have owed over the months i wasn't charged and they'd never credited me the money they owed me.

so i started ringing loads trying to sort it out with no helpful reponses from them. it turns out they were double charging us as they had us listed as receiving 2 SEPARATE BROADBAND packages which is impossible to have! so they were in the wrong again and said it would be sorted out. that was 4 months ago and i've rung and spoken to so many damn people there i don't know what else to do. i was promised 2 months ago that a manager would ring me back within 48 hours at the most to address the issue. guess what? i'm still waiting for that call.

i rang ComReg and asked for advice and they said to threaten BT with a formal complaint so i did. they promised that they would credit my account back and that my online billing would be updated. again, no such luck. i have spoken with technical support numerous times who also can't do their jobs and they keep promising that within 2 days my new bill will be online. bollox - months later and nothing!

do these gimps even want to be paid? what kind of circus are they running there? i honestly have never had this much disgust and contempt for any company in my life. i am appalled at their incompetence. you ring and are on hold for hours and the one time i chose their 'call back' option where you just leave your number and they phone you back when you would have reached top of the queue, they rang me back 45 minutes later and...no joke...immediately put me on hold again!!!!!

please see below the letter i just sent to all their departments:

to:customer service/technical support/complaints department:

i have rung customer service so many times about this that it is actually absurd. i cannot believe i have to chase BT to try and pay a bill? crazy. anyway, i signed up for broadband and line rental last year and for a few months my bills were correct and uploaded on your online website for me to see and paid automatically by direct debit (i was overcharged) that i signed up for. then something happened and they weren't there and then i was double charged for numerous months. i have rung so many times that i'm sick of it. last i was told i owe about 26 euro after money was credited back but they cannot seem to manage to bill me for this or have this updated on my online account. everytime i log in there is still not an updated bill and if i click to pay a bill it is still incorrect. also if i click to 'log a fault' i am told that i have no products with BT so i cannot log a fault.

what is going on? surely after 4 months someone could sort this out. this is a joke and i shouldn't have to pay anything because of all the time and energy i have wasted pursuing this with no follow up or effort from BT. i am still waiting 2 months later for a call from a manager in BT to sort this out when i was told the call would come in 48 hours. again, what a joke.

is there anyone competent in BT that can actually comprehend this simple yet annoying situation and sort it out?

i want someone to call me ASAP about this as i am not calling again and waiting in a queue all day only to be told "your database is down" and someone will call me back when it's back up to help me. hhhmmm, 7 days later and no call? so your database was down for a week? right, sure.

please sort out someone with A. authority and B. a clue to call me and sort this out. I have already been on to ComReg who have advised me to make a formal complaint. I am also looking into the statute of limitations on billing and how long something has to drag on before i actually won't be responsible for paying you anything.

read my file and you'll see why i'm so p*ssed off. my home phone number is 01 xxx xxxx
i am sorry if you, the person reading this, have to take all this in but i am at the end of my wire here. it's not your fault personally but your company is a joke and the customer service and technical support are appalling.

i am sending this to all departments in BT and I want to lodge a formal complaint as recommended by ComReg. I will also have no hesitation in continuing to follow this at a higher level. I will also ensure that I recommend anyone i know to steer clear of BT if this is what we are to expect.

Please have a manager call me ASAP. I can't take this anymore. Pretend this was a company treating you this way and think how you would feel.

Awaiting an urgent response,

Gandalf23

Hi lollyflashpants (love the name!!!)... welcome to boards. Sorry it's under these circumstances.

The truly shocking thing is that I am not even slightly surprised by your post. I doubt if anyone else frequenting this forum is either.

Sapele

lollyflashpants it's a typical appalling BT story. Keep the faith you will eventually get there. It's a sad situation where BT customers have to google BT overcharge or BT rip off to get some support. I too emailed complaints@btireland.com and got comreg and the consumer association of Ireland to help. Eventually it paid off and I got my refund and then left BT (still delighted about that). If you are waiting for an urgent response then forget about it, forget about getting a worthwhile response at all in most cases. When I left BT my online bill was still incorrect, actually I never saw a correct online bill with them, do they care -- no I don't think they do